On 3/30/07, Rado S <regrado at web.de> wrote: > > You think newbs will like a feature enriched Paradise game more > than Bronco for starters to get hooked up (and later maybe learn > about Bronco)? That is how I got into netrek. One group of my friends was playing paradise so I started going to the the computer clusters to play with my friends and eventually I after a few weeks of paradise I noticed sometimes my friends played bronco so I asked them what it was and the rest is history. Having knowledgeable players in person to give you a model XTREKRC file, to explain the keymap and buttonmap, to explain how macros work and how to make them, how RCD works, to yell at you when you are doing something dumb, and just to watch others play in person even if you are not playing (I observed many CMU clue playoff games this way which they usually won heh) is extremely helpful and is probably the ideal way to learn. Most new players will not have a chance for that learning (and also that is the most fun way to play netrek in my opinion) which is sad so we must accept this and develop the best way to train them remotely. > Once the wiki is setup, we might create a section for PR plans, > tasks and people doing it, so that we have a better overview about > chances for success or what wholes have to be patched. Dave Ahn cryptically said last week that he has decided on what wiki the Netrek website will use and it will not be MoinMoin, but he didn't say what he decided will be used so we must just wait and see :-) > I guess advertizing is useless before the landing zone is well > prepared: places to play with real in-game activity, places to learn Exactly and this happened about 5-6 years ago when a player posted to slashdot about netrek just at the same time that Karthik and then some others were working on a new plan (forget the specifics) to attract newbies, so while the player probably had good intentions their preemption did not do much to attract and retain new players. According to Joe a lot of new players have tried netrek in the past 6-12 months and I have noticed this myself anecdotally, but obviously we are not retaining enough of them. So this is the question we must focus on. I think we should approach this from two tracts: the server and client efforts. On the server side I think a paradise server and even a fun chaos server will help. and it would be good if they had something on the motd or login screen that made it clear that the purest form of netrek is bronco and once players learn the basics they are encouraged to play on the bronco servers. In the past having a good newbie server with bots also seemed to help. So if someone could run one again that would be good, the code is already done for that. There are also some tricks we could do with the metaserver and client to "strongly encourage" users to play on bronco servers if decline of bronco t mode becomes an issue again in light of new non-bronco servers ;-) On the client side many have talked about this in the past many times including myself but I think for the sake of the discussion it is worth repeating: must focus on better graphics that will make the tweens, teens and college students say "Wow this looks cool!" and very good 3D sound comparable to what they get in other games, this is what their expectations are and while we all realize the real strength of netrek is in its' rich strategic and team gameplay and coordination of group efforts the typical newbie will not yet appreciate this so we must put a very nice worm on the hook to lure in the fishes :) OpenGL graphics and SDL sound seem to be the way to go since their are toolkits/APIs for these which are multi-platform. Some have suggested a single client codebase and I'm not sure what the relative merits/weaknesses of that are right now but it may be something to consider. We could still have individuals responsible for different flavors of the client (something like skins) and instead of having BRMH client, COW client, XP 2006, XP Mod, MacTrek we could have Netrek Client + BRMH theme/skin, Netrek Client + Eric's mod. The newbie would be able to ideally easily switch and try different themes regardless of what platform/arch they are using. Another idea I had is to allow players to create mods (the whole borg issue would need to be considered) so that they could easily change certain things like ship types, sounds, GUI look, etc.. Modding is very popular in many games right now. I also feel whatever we do it is imperative we design a more intuitive help system and configuration system comparable to what the typical user will be used to from most major games (there are about 3 or 4 basic designs I've noticed with minor variations). One part of successful marketing it's finding out the end users/customer's expectations and meeting them. Just some things to think about. > live and by reading, diversity of those place for different tastes > of learning and playing, responsible teachers and protectors > (against lamer abuse). Without very active server goods with tons of time to police the server enforcement of this will be very problematic. The days of the server god who also actively plays (as in 4+ hours each day) and has lots of time to deal with problem players are likely over. There is the whole censorship issue to consider also. I daresay most if not all the active server gods have a more liberal view on this and prefer to let people say what they want even if it is offensive, racist, bigoted, hateful etc. A certain degree of verbal harassment should be expected tolerated by players seems to be the case. We can debate this, and I think sometimes there are some players who truly are there (often they are not players but just hangout on obs slots) just to try to humiliate, viciously personally attack other players and no other major game tolerates this. That may be since they are commercial games usually they're wary of potential lawsuits so their policy is enforced to mitigate this liability but in playing some popular free games I've also noticed a much less liberal view of what constitutes acceptable speech than we see in netrek. And I am not talking about the historic type of trash talking and joking which has always been a part of the game. Thankfully most players are not that disturbed or malevolent but the few who are seem highly motivated and will resort to changing ISPs, proxies, etc. to try and circumvent any player ban. Any real enforcement on this issue ultimately comes back to security and the reality of what can be enforced. There is no perfect solution I recognize however I wonder if we could be doing more security wise. Perhaps this could be discussed. > Right. Since the game mechanic alone doesn't beat them, there must > be other areas to surpass them, like the above listed support. > A game doesn't see itself anymore by the code alone, especially > not one such complex as netrek. Word of mouth advertising also helps. I wonder how many regular players tell their family, friends, coworkers about it. Or if you have a blog or website mention netrek and provide helpful links. This may seem trivial but it can have a very good cumulative effect if everyone is doing it! > And then we need patience until enough mass has gathered to > attract others just by gravity (as it was in the past, just now > the mass must be greater ;). Right and once we get critical mass we can get a healthy clue scene going again. As I've said in the past there is a symbiotic relationship between the two. A healthy pickup scene will fuel a healthy clue scene and vice versa. Clued netrek is the most intense, exciting and educational and once players advance to that level many will be "hooked" and be lifetime players heh. In recent years it is no coincidence that as the clue scene suddenly dropped off we saw a massive correlated drop off in pickup and many regular long time clued players decided to retire for good, and others who used to regularly play pickup now only pop in once a month or every few months. I don't want to get into a chicken or egg mode but you could also argue that the clued players lost interest because the quality of pickup had deteriorated so much (and I personally saw players express this view numerous times) and there were so few clue playing regular pickup. There decision to retire then exacerbated the problem. Since netrek has a steeper learning curve than most popular games we must recognize it will take years before a player advances from a newbie to semi-clue to clue to high clue (if they ever get that far) and I think we'd all agree that having clued players around to teach the newbies and demonstrate clued play and to test and push them is essential. So we need to also be focused on retaining clue and even luring back clue that have retired or got tired of netrek. For some their family and professional and social commitments/priorities make regular netrek prohibitive. I know some who would really like to play but have said they just can't find the time to do it. But as the old saying goes if something is really important to you then you'll make time for it. And I think the majority of clue who've stopped playing have done so for the other reasons I mentioned so there is at least a glimmer of hope of bringing them back :-) Zach