From waffle at barkingfrogs.net  Sun Mar  1 20:07:15 2009
From: waffle at barkingfrogs.net (Mathew Carrick)
Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 17:07:15 -0900
Subject: [netrek-dev] New to project
Message-ID: <1235959635.20012.0.camel@mathew-laptop>

Hello! I would like to help with Netrek development -- where should I
start? Does anyone have anything that is suited for newbies? Thanks!



From netrek at gmail.com  Sun Mar  1 22:37:09 2009
From: netrek at gmail.com (Zach Uram)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 04:37:09 +0000
Subject: [netrek-dev] New to project
In-Reply-To: <1235959635.20012.0.camel@mathew-laptop>
References: <1235959635.20012.0.camel@mathew-laptop>
Message-ID: <ecfa260c0903012037r73b5446ax6f3d6f15e80ace81@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 2:07 AM, Mathew Carrick <waffle at barkingfrogs.net> wrote:
> Hello! I would like to help with Netrek development -- where should I
> start? Does anyone have anything that is suited for newbies? Thanks!

Hi Matthew,

Funny domain name BTW :-) Welcome! We've had some good discussions
lately on here if you want to check it out:  http://tinyurl.com/netrek

Zach


From quozl at us.netrek.org  Sun Mar  1 22:49:50 2009
From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 15:49:50 +1100
Subject: [netrek-dev] New to project
In-Reply-To: <1235959635.20012.0.camel@mathew-laptop>
References: <1235959635.20012.0.camel@mathew-laptop>
Message-ID: <20090302044950.GC4503@us.netrek.org>

Welcome Mathew,

Quite a few things are available for newbie developers, but it is
difficult to point you at things without some knowledge of what other
things you have developed.  Got any prior work we can look at?  Got any
languages or operating systems you prefer to be involved in?

Here's a list of places to look for ideas to work on:

Server, has a PROJECTS file in the repository in darcs.

Client, for Windows, has a "NetrekXP to do list.C" file in the
repository in CVS.

Client, multiplatform Python/Pygame/SDL for Mac, Windows, and Linux, has
"FIXME: " spread through the main source file (but I plan to moved that
into a separate place).

Client, X11 for Linux and Mac, has a TODO file in the repository.

There's also the LaunchPad bug tracking instance for the server and the
Linux X11 client.

-- 
James Cameron    mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org     http://quozl.netrek.org/


From waffle at barkingfrogs.net  Thu Mar  5 16:22:31 2009
From: waffle at barkingfrogs.net (Mathew Carrick)
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 13:22:31 -0900
Subject: [netrek-dev] New to project
In-Reply-To: <20090302044950.GC4503@us.netrek.org>
References: <1235959635.20012.0.camel@mathew-laptop>
	<20090302044950.GC4503@us.netrek.org>
Message-ID: <1236291751.21103.4.camel@mathew-laptop>

Hello again!
Sorry. I would like to be involved in GNU/Linux development, but
wouldn't mind working on OS X. I am most comfortable with Python and C,
but I'm in this for the learning so any language is good.

Thanks for your e-mail. I will get to coding soon. :-

On Mon, 2009-03-02 at 15:49 +1100, James Cameron wrote:
> Welcome Mathew,
> 
> Quite a few things are available for newbie developers, but it is
> difficult to point you at things without some knowledge of what other
> things you have developed.  Got any prior work we can look at?  Got any
> languages or operating systems you prefer to be involved in?
> 
> Here's a list of places to look for ideas to work on:
> 
> Server, has a PROJECTS file in the repository in darcs.
> 
> Client, for Windows, has a "NetrekXP to do list.C" file in the
> repository in CVS.
> 
> Client, multiplatform Python/Pygame/SDL for Mac, Windows, and Linux, has
> "FIXME: " spread through the main source file (but I plan to moved that
> into a separate place).
> 
> Client, X11 for Linux and Mac, has a TODO file in the repository.
> 
> There's also the LaunchPad bug tracking instance for the server and the
> Linux X11 client.
> 



From jrd at gerdesas.com  Mon Mar  9 19:43:33 2009
From: jrd at gerdesas.com (John R. Dennison)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 19:43:33 -0500
Subject: [netrek-dev] Offer of netrek wiki
Message-ID: <20090310004333.GQ8218@frodo.gerdesas.com>

Andrew and I were talking Saturday night about a continuation of the
existing netrek development wiki and he had mentioned that he was moving
the bits that he was making us of over to some ad-based free wiki on the
web somewhere.

I made him the offer of hosting a free mediawiki instance for his use, and
after I went to the trouble of securing it from spambot idiocy I mentioned
to him that I'd be happy to host it as a general netrek wiki that could
have an area devoted to development issues.

What I've put together is on a VPS I have in a datacenter in the Building
of the Americas in Philidephia, PA USA; dual-homed off of Global Crossing
and Level-3; running the latest version of MediaWiki (same base wiki
codebase as wikipedia uses; secured to prevent spambot idiocy as best as
possible.  Data is backed-up nightly and shipped off-site and in the event
of an emergency I can roll-out another instance elsewhere in a matter of
minutes.

If people are still interested in this and want to take me up on the
offer please respond here.





							John
-- 
"I'm sorry but our engineers do not have phones."
As stated by a Network Solutions Customer Service representative when asked to
be put through to an engineer.

"My other computer is your windows box."
                                     Ralf Hildebrandt
<sxem> trying to play sturgeon while it's under attack is apparently not fun.
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From quozl at us.netrek.org  Mon Mar  9 21:03:19 2009
From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 13:03:19 +1100
Subject: [netrek-dev] Offer of netrek wiki
In-Reply-To: <20090310004333.GQ8218@frodo.gerdesas.com>
References: <20090310004333.GQ8218@frodo.gerdesas.com>
Message-ID: <20090310020319.GI7369@us.netrek.org>

I take you up on that.  Please give us the IP address, or publish a
patch to the zone file for us.netrek.org.  You can find that in the
administrivia/dns directory of the server darcs repository.

If you have it already in one of your own domains, give us that name
too.  We can then work toward wiki.netrek.org as the final name.

I suggest after placing in at least one DNS zone the next steps are;

1.  create accounts (done by the contributors),

2.  port content,

3.  advertise it, link to it, etc,

4.  monitor it with RSS and so forth.

-- 
James Cameron    mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org     http://quozl.netrek.org/
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From jrd at gerdesas.com  Mon Mar  9 22:04:10 2009
From: jrd at gerdesas.com (John R. Dennison)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 22:04:10 -0500
Subject: [netrek-dev] [netrek-forever] Re:  Offer of netrek wiki
In-Reply-To: <20090310020319.GI7369@us.netrek.org>
References: <20090310004333.GQ8218@frodo.gerdesas.com>
	<20090310020319.GI7369@us.netrek.org>
Message-ID: <20090310030410.GS8218@frodo.gerdesas.com>

On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 01:03:19PM +1100, James Cameron wrote:
> I take you up on that.  Please give us the IP address, or publish a
> patch to the zone file for us.netrek.org.  You can find that in the
> administrivia/dns directory of the server darcs repository.

	Patch pushed.

	new-wiki.us.netrek.org - CNAME'd to one of my vps hosts.

> If you have it already in one of your own domains, give us that name
> too.  We can then work toward wiki.netrek.org as the final name.

	It's currently set as "netrek-dev.gerdesas.com" with 2
	ServerAlias entries pointing to "new-wiki.us.netrek.org" and
	"wiki.netrek.org" to make that change more transparent with
	less human intervention required.

	Until the zone patch is picked up it's reachable as:

	http://netrek-dev.gerdesas.com/

	After the patch is pickled up it will be reachable as that url
	and also:

	http://new-wiki.us.netrek.org/

> I suggest after placing in at least one DNS zone the next steps are;
> 
> 1.  create accounts (done by the contributors),

	Accounts are set to require confirmation before any
	editing is permitted.  Anonymous users are not permitted to
	edit content; they must be logged in and confirmed.

	Project primaries will be given administrative access once
	they've created and confirmed their accounts and mailed me
	(or one of the other primaries) their wiki login.

> 2.  port content,
> 3.  advertise it, link to it, etc,
> 4.  monitor it with RSS and so forth.

	Have at it :)

	I think I need to enable image uploads, but other than that it
	should be good to go.  Hmm, now that I think about it, do we
	*need* image upload ability?  I will leave it disabled for now
	until it's determined we need it.  It can be trivially enabled
	if it's required and after ImageMagick is installed for
	thumbnail management.

	Speaking of images, I have the wiki logo set as a random 
	png I saw on netrek.org - it needs a better logo.  If someone
	wants to provide one that'd be great.  Send me the image file
	or a URL to get it from and I will add it.

	If anyone spots any problems with configuration or any other
	issues please let me know.



-- 
"I'm sorry but our engineers do not have phones."
As stated by a Network Solutions Customer Service representative when asked to
be put through to an engineer.

"My other computer is your windows box."
                                     Ralf Hildebrandt
<sxem> trying to play sturgeon while it's under attack is apparently not fun.
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From quozl at us.netrek.org  Mon Mar  9 22:20:16 2009
From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 14:20:16 +1100
Subject: [netrek-dev] [netrek-forever] Re:  Offer of netrek wiki
In-Reply-To: <20090310030410.GS8218@frodo.gerdesas.com>
References: <20090310004333.GQ8218@frodo.gerdesas.com>
	<20090310020319.GI7369@us.netrek.org>
	<20090310030410.GS8218@frodo.gerdesas.com>
Message-ID: <20090310032016.GK7369@us.netrek.org>

On Mon, Mar 09, 2009 at 10:04:10PM -0500, John R. Dennison wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 01:03:19PM +1100, James Cameron wrote:
> > I take you up on that.  Please give us the IP address, or publish a
> > patch to the zone file for us.netrek.org.  You can find that in the
> > administrivia/dns directory of the server darcs repository.
> 
> 	Patch pushed.

Taken, pushed.  Bob, please take?

Signed-off-by: James Cameron <quozl at us.netrek.org>

> 	Project primaries will be given administrative access once
> 	they've created and confirmed their accounts and mailed me
> 	(or one of the other primaries) their wiki login.

Quozl.

-- 
James Cameron    mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org     http://quozl.netrek.org/


From quozl at us.netrek.org  Mon Mar  9 23:00:41 2009
From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 15:00:41 +1100
Subject: [netrek-dev] [netrek-forever] Re:  Offer of netrek wiki
In-Reply-To: <a6eb8d6b0903092055u2a06a695m22b226de60af6d31@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090310004333.GQ8218@frodo.gerdesas.com>
	<20090310020319.GI7369@us.netrek.org>
	<20090310030410.GS8218@frodo.gerdesas.com>
	<20090310032016.GK7369@us.netrek.org>
	<a6eb8d6b0903092055u2a06a695m22b226de60af6d31@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090310040041.GL7369@us.netrek.org>

On Mon, Mar 09, 2009 at 08:55:06PM -0700, Steven wrote:
> Woah... Bob, as in me? Alienbob?

No, Bob Tanner, our us.netrek.org expert.  Thanks for putting your hand
up though, the Wiki could do with your help.

-- 
James Cameron    mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org     http://quozl.netrek.org/


From akb+lists.netrek-dev at mirror.to  Tue Mar 10 04:55:50 2009
From: akb+lists.netrek-dev at mirror.to (Andrew K. Bressen)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 05:55:50 -0400
Subject: [netrek-dev] Offer of netrek wiki
In-Reply-To: <20090310020319.GI7369@us.netrek.org> (James Cameron's message of
	"Tue, 10 Mar 2009 13:03:19 +1100")
References: <20090310004333.GQ8218@frodo.gerdesas.com>
	<20090310020319.GI7369@us.netrek.org>
Message-ID: <0q4oy1aehl.fsf@mirror.to>


I have now ported most of the content of the old wiki and updated some of it.
Some of the formatting is broken due to differences in wiki software;
feel free to fix. 



From quozl at us.netrek.org  Tue Mar 10 06:35:09 2009
From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 22:35:09 +1100
Subject: [netrek-dev] Offer of netrek wiki
In-Reply-To: <0q4oy1aehl.fsf@mirror.to>
References: <20090310004333.GQ8218@frodo.gerdesas.com>
	<20090310020319.GI7369@us.netrek.org> <0q4oy1aehl.fsf@mirror.to>
Message-ID: <20090310113509.GA30460@us.netrek.org>

On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 05:55:50AM -0400, Andrew K. Bressen wrote:
> I have now ported most of the content of the old wiki and updated some of it.
> Some of the formatting is broken due to differences in wiki software;
> feel free to fix. 

Excellent, well done.  I've begun to fix pages that I had held up
changing on the old Wiki.  I've added several pages to my watchlist, and
added the Recent Changes RSS feed to my feed reader.

-- 
James Cameron    mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org     http://quozl.netrek.org/


From billbalcerski at gmail.com  Tue Mar 10 11:30:05 2009
From: billbalcerski at gmail.com (Bill Balcerski)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 12:30:05 -0400
Subject: [netrek-dev] Offer of netrek wiki
In-Reply-To: <20090310113509.GA30460@us.netrek.org>
References: <20090310004333.GQ8218@frodo.gerdesas.com>
	<20090310020319.GI7369@us.netrek.org> <0q4oy1aehl.fsf@mirror.to>
	<20090310113509.GA30460@us.netrek.org>
Message-ID: <45ab86180903100930j16ffcca9rbd038d3fffd43135@mail.gmail.com>

Looks like a good start.  Before I do more editing, could someone fix
the issue with links and footnotes?  They all seem broken.  Or at
least point me to an example of how we want the wiki to handle pages
with links and footnotes, so I can fix the rest manually if needed.
Bill

On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 7:35 AM, James Cameron <quozl at us.netrek.org> wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 05:55:50AM -0400, Andrew K. Bressen wrote:
>> I have now ported most of the content of the old wiki and updated some of it.
>> Some of the formatting is broken due to differences in wiki software;
>> feel free to fix.
>
> Excellent, well done.  I've begun to fix pages that I had held up
> changing on the old Wiki.  I've added several pages to my watchlist, and
> added the Recent Changes RSS feed to my feed reader.
>
> --
> James Cameron    mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org     http://quozl.netrek.org/
>
> _______________________________________________
> netrek-dev mailing list
> netrek-dev at us.netrek.org
> http://mailman.us.netrek.org/mailman/listinfo/netrek-dev
>


From shd191 at gmail.com  Mon Mar  9 22:55:06 2009
From: shd191 at gmail.com (Steven)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 20:55:06 -0700
Subject: [netrek-dev] [netrek-forever] Re:  Offer of netrek wiki
In-Reply-To: <20090310032016.GK7369@us.netrek.org>
References: <20090310004333.GQ8218@frodo.gerdesas.com>
	<20090310020319.GI7369@us.netrek.org>
	<20090310030410.GS8218@frodo.gerdesas.com>
	<20090310032016.GK7369@us.netrek.org>
Message-ID: <a6eb8d6b0903092055u2a06a695m22b226de60af6d31@mail.gmail.com>

Woah... Bob, as in me? Alienbob?

if so, what did you need?

On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 8:20 PM, James Cameron <quozl at us.netrek.org> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Mar 09, 2009 at 10:04:10PM -0500, John R. Dennison wrote:
>> On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 01:03:19PM +1100, James Cameron wrote:
>> > I take you up on that. ?Please give us the IP address, or publish a
>> > patch to the zone file for us.netrek.org. ?You can find that in the
>> > administrivia/dns directory of the server darcs repository.
>>
>> ? ? ? Patch pushed.
>
> Taken, pushed. ?Bob, please take?
>
> Signed-off-by: James Cameron <quozl at us.netrek.org>
>
>> ? ? ? Project primaries will be given administrative access once
>> ? ? ? they've created and confirmed their accounts and mailed me
>> ? ? ? (or one of the other primaries) their wiki login.
>
> Quozl.
>
> --
> James Cameron ? ?mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org ? ? http://quozl.netrek.org/
>
> --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
> To post send mail here: netrek-forever at googlegroups.com
> More info: http://tinyurl.com/netrek
> -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
>
>


From akb+lists.netrek-dev at mirror.to  Tue Mar 10 14:30:27 2009
From: akb+lists.netrek-dev at mirror.to (Andrew K. Bressen)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 15:30:27 -0400
Subject: [netrek-dev] Offer of netrek wiki
In-Reply-To: <45ab86180903100930j16ffcca9rbd038d3fffd43135@mail.gmail.com>
	(Bill Balcerski's message of "Tue, 10 Mar 2009 12:30:05 -0400")
References: <20090310004333.GQ8218@frodo.gerdesas.com>
	<20090310020319.GI7369@us.netrek.org> <0q4oy1aehl.fsf@mirror.to>
	<20090310113509.GA30460@us.netrek.org>
	<45ab86180903100930j16ffcca9rbd038d3fffd43135@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0qbps989bg.fsf@mirror.to>


Bill Balcerski <billbalcerski at gmail.com> writes:
> Looks like a good start.  Before I do more editing, could someone fix
> the issue with links and footnotes?  They all seem broken.  Or at
> least point me to an example of how we want the wiki to handle pages
> with links and footnotes, so I can fix the rest manually if needed.

That's a format code difference between the old and new wikis.

The old wiki used dobule brackets for both internal and external links, 
as in [[http://foo.bar.baz]]

For internal links, the new wiki uses double brackets, but for url's
the new wiki uses a bare url; using single brackets makes those
numbered references, doubles makes a reference surrounded by a pair of
brackets. 





From basic at us.netrek.org  Tue Mar 10 14:48:38 2009
From: basic at us.netrek.org (Bob Tanner)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 14:48:38 -0500
Subject: [netrek-dev] [netrek-forever] Re:  Offer of netrek wiki
References: <20090310004333.GQ8218@frodo.gerdesas.com>
	<20090310020319.GI7369@us.netrek.org>
	<20090310030410.GS8218@frodo.gerdesas.com>
Message-ID: <gp6g6m$cen$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2009-03-09 22:04:10 -0500, "John R. Dennison" 
<jrd at gerdesas.com> said:

> On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 01:03:19PM +1100, James Cameron wrote:
>> I take you up on that.  Please give us the IP address, or publish a
>> patch to the zone file for us.netrek.org.  You can find that in the
>> administrivia/dns directory of the server darcs repository.
> 
> 	Patch pushed.
> 
> 	new-wiki.us.netrek.org - CNAME'd to one of my vps hosts.

DNS changes pushed.

-- 
Bob Tanner <basic at us.netrek.org>          
Key fingerprint = F785 DDFC CF94 7CE8 AA87 3A9D 3895 26F1 0DDB E378




From jrd at gerdesas.com  Wed Mar 11 22:02:06 2009
From: jrd at gerdesas.com (John R. Dennison)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 22:02:06 -0500
Subject: [netrek-dev] wiki.netrek.org request
Message-ID: <20090312030206.GA27428@frodo.gerdesas.com>

Can whomever interacts with Sven please request that a CNAME for 
wiki.netrek.org pointing at ntwiki.gerdesas.com be added to the
netrek.org zone?

Thanks.




							John
-- 
"I'm sorry but our engineers do not have phones."
As stated by a Network Solutions Customer Service representative when asked to
be put through to an engineer.

"My other computer is your windows box."
                                     Ralf Hildebrandt
<sxem> trying to play sturgeon while it's under attack is apparently not fun.
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From quozl at us.netrek.org  Wed Mar 11 22:15:21 2009
From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:15:21 +1100
Subject: [netrek-dev] wiki.netrek.org request
In-Reply-To: <20090312030206.GA27428@frodo.gerdesas.com>
References: <20090312030206.GA27428@frodo.gerdesas.com>
Message-ID: <20090312031521.GA26489@us.netrek.org>

Seconded.  The Wiki is running well and has had significant
contribution.

On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 10:02:06PM -0500, John R. Dennison wrote:
> Can whomever interacts with Sven please request that a CNAME for 
> wiki.netrek.org pointing at ntwiki.gerdesas.com be added to the
> netrek.org zone?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 							John
> -- 
> "I'm sorry but our engineers do not have phones."
> As stated by a Network Solutions Customer Service representative when asked to
> be put through to an engineer.
> 
> "My other computer is your windows box."
>                                      Ralf Hildebrandt
> <sxem> trying to play sturgeon while it's under attack is apparently not fun.



> _______________________________________________
> netrek-dev mailing list
> netrek-dev at us.netrek.org
> http://mailman.us.netrek.org/mailman/listinfo/netrek-dev


-- 
James Cameron    mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org     http://quozl.netrek.org/


From jrd at gerdesas.com  Wed Mar 11 22:34:49 2009
From: jrd at gerdesas.com (John R. Dennison)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 22:34:49 -0500
Subject: [netrek-dev] us.netrek.org changes
Message-ID: <20090312033449.GB27428@frodo.gerdesas.com>

Per request from James: renamed old "wiki" CNAME to "old-wiki"; added
new "wiki" CNAME' bumped serial.

Patch pushed.




							John
-- 
"I'm sorry but our engineers do not have phones."
As stated by a Network Solutions Customer Service representative when asked to
be put through to an engineer.

"My other computer is your windows box."
                                     Ralf Hildebrandt
<sxem> trying to play sturgeon while it's under attack is apparently not fun.
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From quozl at us.netrek.org  Wed Mar 11 23:00:27 2009
From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 15:00:27 +1100
Subject: [netrek-dev] us.netrek.org changes
In-Reply-To: <20090312033449.GB27428@frodo.gerdesas.com>
References: <20090312033449.GB27428@frodo.gerdesas.com>
Message-ID: <20090312040027.GC26489@us.netrek.org>

On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 10:34:49PM -0500, John R. Dennison wrote:
> Patch pushed.

Reviewed, pushed.  Bob, please apply.

Signed-off-by: James Cameron <quozl at us.netrek.org>

[DNS, rename wiki to old-wiki, add new wiki
John R. Dennison <jrd at gerdesas.com>**20090312032419
 Per request from James: renamed old "wiki" CNAME to "old-wiki"; added
 new "wiki" CNAME' bumped serial.
] {
hunk ./administrivia/dns/us.netrek.org 4
-               2009030900       ; Serial Number of this file
+               2009031100       ; Serial Number of this file
hunk ./administrivia/dns/us.netrek.org 51
-wiki                           IN      CNAME   uml.eqenchanters.org.
+wiki                           IN      CNAME   radagast.gerdesas.com.
+old-wiki                       IN      CNAME   uml.eqenchanters.org.
}

-- 
James Cameron    mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org     http://quozl.netrek.org/


From netrek at gmail.com  Thu Mar 12 13:17:02 2009
From: netrek at gmail.com (Zach Uram)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:17:02 -0400
Subject: [netrek-dev] new netrek logo
Message-ID: <ecfa260c0903121117o17f29efdx6eaed8261dd04441@mail.gmail.com>

I am pleased to announce a new netrek logo. My friend Dave designed it
for me at my request and according to my specifications and gave me
full rights to release it as I saw fit so I've licensed it under a
Creative Common License.

The logo site is here:
http://www.jesujuva.org/netrek-logo/

I would love to get your feedback, let me know what you think of the new logo.

And feel free to desseminate this to the greater netrek community and
encourage its use. Would be nice to have it used on the wiki,
www.netrek.org, etc.

Zach

><> www.jesujuva.org <><


From basic at us.netrek.org  Thu Mar 12 15:01:14 2009
From: basic at us.netrek.org (Bob Tanner)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 15:01:14 -0500
Subject: [netrek-dev] wiki.netrek.org request
References: <20090312030206.GA27428@frodo.gerdesas.com>
	<20090312031521.GA26489@us.netrek.org>
Message-ID: <gpbpmb$ejq$2@ger.gmane.org>

On 2009-03-11 22:15:21 -0500, James Cameron 
<quozl at us.netrek.org> said:

> Seconded.  The Wiki is running well and has had significant
> contribution.

And when you speak to Sven, can you ask him to add dns-1.real-time.com 
and dns-2.real-time.com as slave to netrek.org?

-AND-

Update the whois record with those entries?

-- 
Bob Tanner <basic at us.netrek.org>          
Key fingerprint = F785 DDFC CF94 7CE8 AA87 3A9D 3895 26F1 0DDB E378




From basic at us.netrek.org  Thu Mar 12 15:06:21 2009
From: basic at us.netrek.org (Bob Tanner)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 15:06:21 -0500
Subject: [netrek-dev] us.netrek.org changes
References: <20090312033449.GB27428@frodo.gerdesas.com>
	<20090312040027.GC26489@us.netrek.org>
Message-ID: <gpbpvu$g5o$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2009-03-11 23:00:27 -0500, James Cameron 
<quozl at us.netrek.org> said:

> Reviewed, pushed.  Bob, please apply.

Done.

-- 
Bob Tanner <basic at us.netrek.org>          
Key fingerprint = F785 DDFC CF94 7CE8 AA87 3A9D 3895 26F1 0DDB E378




From netrek at gmail.com  Thu Mar 12 20:25:48 2009
From: netrek at gmail.com (Zach Uram)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 21:25:48 -0400
Subject: [netrek-dev] for Andrew
Message-ID: <ecfa260c0903121825v2f98bcb4o735e153f44de8297@mail.gmail.com>

I was looking through www.netrek.org and found a defunct wiki reference:

http://www.netrek.org/downloads/
Under section "Source Code, Old Code, and More"
"source control code" links to the old wiki address:
http://wiki.us.netrek.org/netrek-dev/SourceControl

There are probably more cases on the site.

Zach


From quozl at us.netrek.org  Sun Mar 15 00:23:10 2009
From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 16:23:10 +1100
Subject: [netrek-dev] for Andrew
In-Reply-To: <ecfa260c0903121825v2f98bcb4o735e153f44de8297@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ecfa260c0903121825v2f98bcb4o735e153f44de8297@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090315052310.GB20369@us.netrek.org>

On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 09:25:48PM -0400, Zach Uram wrote:
> http://www.netrek.org/downloads/
> Under section "Source Code, Old Code, and More"
> "source control code" links to the old wiki address:
> http://wiki.us.netrek.org/netrek-dev/SourceControl
> 
> There are probably more cases on the site.

Fixed, issue closed.  Please, fix it yourself in future, and give us the
patch.

Sun Mar 15 16:20:47 EST 2009  quozl at us.netrek.org
  * adjust for wiki URL changes due adoption MediaWiki

-- 
James Cameron    mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org     http://quozl.netrek.org/


From karthik at karthik.com  Sun Mar 15 00:57:48 2009
From: karthik at karthik.com (Karthik Arumugham)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 01:57:48 -0400
Subject: [netrek-dev] new netrek logo
In-Reply-To: <ecfa260c0903121117o17f29efdx6eaed8261dd04441@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ecfa260c0903121117o17f29efdx6eaed8261dd04441@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A37040FF-44CE-42D0-AD27-F9AC9B16E230@karthik.com>

On Mar 12, 2009, at 2:17 PM, Zach Uram wrote:

> I am pleased to announce a new netrek logo. My friend Dave designed it
> for me at my request and according to my specifications and gave me
> full rights to release it as I saw fit so I've licensed it under a
> Creative Common License.
>
> The logo site is here:
> http://www.jesujuva.org/netrek-logo/
>
> I would love to get your feedback, let me know what you think of the  
> new logo.

This logo seems okay, but I'd like to see some other designs. I'm sure  
that we have some people with graphic design skill (not me!), or folks  
who know other graphic designers.

My major issue with this logo is that it combines what's quite  
distinctly a Star Trek communicator shape with the "TREK" part of  
netrek highlighted. That means copyright infringement, thus I do not  
consider this logo usable.

Thank you for the effort in trying to get a new logo designed, though.  
It's been a while since we've had a decent logo, so it'd be nice to  
have one that we can freely use without any concerns.


From quozl at us.netrek.org  Sun Mar 15 23:44:15 2009
From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 15:44:15 +1100
Subject: [netrek-dev] wiki.netrek.org request
In-Reply-To: <gpbpmb$ejq$2@ger.gmane.org>
References: <20090312030206.GA27428@frodo.gerdesas.com>
	<20090312031521.GA26489@us.netrek.org> <gpbpmb$ejq$2@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20090316044415.GM5793@us.netrek.org>

Has anyone spoken to Sven on this yet?

On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 03:01:14PM -0500, Bob Tanner wrote:
> On 2009-03-11 22:15:21 -0500, James Cameron 
> <quozl at us.netrek.org> said:
> 
> > Seconded.  The Wiki is running well and has had significant
> > contribution.
> 
> And when you speak to Sven, can you ask him to add dns-1.real-time.com 
> and dns-2.real-time.com as slave to netrek.org?
> 
> -AND-
> 
> Update the whois record with those entries?

-- 
James Cameron    mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org     http://quozl.netrek.org/


From quozl at us.netrek.org  Mon Mar 16 00:57:25 2009
From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:57:25 +1100
Subject: [netrek-dev] netrek-client-cow gettext internationalisation i18n
Message-ID: <20090316055725.GA15976@us.netrek.org>

My netrek-client-cow repository now contains gettext support, which has
been briefly tested for main.c only.

If anyone would like to take on the next step of translatable string
marking, please let me know.  It involves changing:

	"some string"

to

	_("some string")

but only in cases where the text is for a human not a machine.  You will
need to know how to use darcs, and a text editor, and a bit of C
programming skills.  Tell me before you start, in case we collide.

Once a reasonable number of strings are marked, we can produce a .pot
file for translators to work with.

References:

http://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/FAQ.html#integrating_howto

http://james.tooraweenah.com/cgi-bin/darcs.cgi/netrek-client-cow/?c=annotate&p=20090316054627-e4f26-ff7da31ee52d40939949216a18444cb5ba459509.gz

-- 
James Cameron    mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org     http://quozl.netrek.org/
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From quozl at us.netrek.org  Mon Mar 16 02:30:06 2009
From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 18:30:06 +1100
Subject: [netrek-dev] netrek-client-cow gettext internationalisation	i18n
In-Reply-To: <ecfa260c0903160011k450d55cek9f52db4307bebb0d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090316055725.GA15976@us.netrek.org>
	<ecfa260c0903160011k450d55cek9f52db4307bebb0d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090316073005.GA21021@us.netrek.org>

On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 03:11:22AM -0400, Zach Uram wrote:
> So which package(s) must I install in Debian to use gettext?

For Squeeze:

gettext Depends: libc6 (>= 2.7-1), libcroco3 (>= 0.6.1), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.12.0), libgomp1 (>= 4.2.1), libncurses5 (>= 5.6+20071006-3), gettext-base

gettext-base Depends: libc6 (>= 2.7-1), libgcc1 (>= 1:4.1.1), libstdc++6 (>= 4.1.1)

libgcc1 Depends: gcc-4.3-base (= 4.3.3-3), libc6 (>= 2.7-1)

libcroco3 Depends: libc6 (>= 2.7-1), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.12.0), libxml2 (>= 2.6.27)

libglib2.0-0 Depends: libc6 (>= 2.7-1), libpcre3 (>= 7.7), libselinux1 (>= 2.0.59)

-- 
James Cameron    mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org     http://quozl.netrek.org/


From niclas at acc.umu.se  Mon Mar 16 04:45:16 2009
From: niclas at acc.umu.se (Niclas Fredriksson)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 10:45:16 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [netrek-dev] wiki.netrek.org request
In-Reply-To: <20090316044415.GM5793@us.netrek.org>
References: <20090312030206.GA27428@frodo.gerdesas.com>
	<20090312031521.GA26489@us.netrek.org>
	<gpbpmb$ejq$2@ger.gmane.org> <20090316044415.GM5793@us.netrek.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0903161045010.25805@shaka.acc.umu.se>

I took two seconds to forward this mail to sven at ping.de.

-- 
Niclas

On Mon, 16 Mar 2009, James Cameron wrote:

> Has anyone spoken to Sven on this yet?
>
> On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 03:01:14PM -0500, Bob Tanner wrote:
>> On 2009-03-11 22:15:21 -0500, James Cameron
>> <quozl at us.netrek.org> said:
>>
>>> Seconded.  The Wiki is running well and has had significant
>>> contribution.
>>
>> And when you speak to Sven, can you ask him to add dns-1.real-time.com
>> and dns-2.real-time.com as slave to netrek.org?
>>
>> -AND-
>>
>> Update the whois record with those entries?
>
>


From quozl at us.netrek.org  Tue Mar 17 18:09:48 2009
From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 10:09:48 +1100
Subject: [netrek-dev] wiki.netrek.org request
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0903161045010.25805@shaka.acc.umu.se>
References: <20090312030206.GA27428@frodo.gerdesas.com>
	<20090312031521.GA26489@us.netrek.org> <gpbpmb$ejq$2@ger.gmane.org>
	<20090316044415.GM5793@us.netrek.org>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0903161045010.25805@shaka.acc.umu.se>
Message-ID: <20090317230948.GG11242@us.netrek.org>

On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 10:45:16AM +0100, Niclas Fredriksson wrote:
> I took two seconds to forward this mail to sven at ping.de.

Did he reply?

-- 
James Cameron    mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org     http://quozl.netrek.org/


From netrek at gmail.com  Tue Mar 17 20:25:04 2009
From: netrek at gmail.com (Zach Uram)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 21:25:04 -0400
Subject: [netrek-dev] wiki.netrek.org request
In-Reply-To: <20090317230948.GG11242@us.netrek.org>
References: <20090312030206.GA27428@frodo.gerdesas.com>
	<20090312031521.GA26489@us.netrek.org> <gpbpmb$ejq$2@ger.gmane.org>
	<20090316044415.GM5793@us.netrek.org>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0903161045010.25805@shaka.acc.umu.se>
	<20090317230948.GG11242@us.netrek.org>
Message-ID: <ecfa260c0903171825k3060ef68qf3d5d34038a62cc2@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 7:09 PM, James Cameron <quozl at us.netrek.org> wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 10:45:16AM +0100, Niclas Fredriksson wrote:
>> I took two seconds to forward this mail to sven at ping.de.
>
> Did he reply?

I just forwarded it to his personal email address.

Zach


From niclas at acc.umu.se  Wed Mar 18 02:24:21 2009
From: niclas at acc.umu.se (Niclas Fredriksson)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 08:24:21 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [netrek-dev] wiki.netrek.org request
In-Reply-To: <ecfa260c0903171825k3060ef68qf3d5d34038a62cc2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090312030206.GA27428@frodo.gerdesas.com>
	<20090312031521.GA26489@us.netrek.org>
	<gpbpmb$ejq$2@ger.gmane.org> <20090316044415.GM5793@us.netrek.org>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0903161045010.25805@shaka.acc.umu.se>
	<20090317230948.GG11242@us.netrek.org>
	<ecfa260c0903171825k3060ef68qf3d5d34038a62cc2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0903180823590.23031@shaka.acc.umu.se>

On Tue, 17 Mar 2009, Zach Uram wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 7:09 PM, James Cameron <quozl at us.netrek.org> wrote:
>> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 10:45:16AM +0100, Niclas Fredriksson wrote:
>>> I took two seconds to forward this mail to sven at ping.de.
>>
>> Did he reply?
>
> I just forwarded it to his personal email address.

sven at ping.de is his personal email address. Which one did you use?

And no, he did not reply.

-- 
Niclas


From netrek at gmail.com  Wed Mar 18 02:48:36 2009
From: netrek at gmail.com (Zach Uram)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 03:48:36 -0400
Subject: [netrek-dev] wiki.netrek.org request
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0903180823590.23031@shaka.acc.umu.se>
References: <20090312030206.GA27428@frodo.gerdesas.com>
	<20090312031521.GA26489@us.netrek.org> <gpbpmb$ejq$2@ger.gmane.org>
	<20090316044415.GM5793@us.netrek.org>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0903161045010.25805@shaka.acc.umu.se>
	<20090317230948.GG11242@us.netrek.org>
	<ecfa260c0903171825k3060ef68qf3d5d34038a62cc2@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0903180823590.23031@shaka.acc.umu.se>
Message-ID: <ecfa260c0903180048g5f727c07x9acc097920668d6@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 3:24 AM, Niclas Fredriksson <niclas at acc.umu.se> wrote:
>
> sven at ping.de is his personal email address. Which one did you use?

That is his old one. The times I've chatted to him recently has been
on sven at sven.de

Zach


From quozl at us.netrek.org  Wed Mar 18 03:34:08 2009
From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 19:34:08 +1100
Subject: [netrek-dev] netrek-client-cow-3.2.10 released
Message-ID: <20090318083408.GA3522@us.netrek.org>

netrek-client-cow 3.2.10 was released, fixing the %c macro directive,
and preventing the "a" key from causing immediate quit (closes LP
bug #331395).

This version also adds installation and native sound support for the SGI
IRIX operating system.

Technical changes include removal of CVS details, fixing the location
for the key file on a "make install", adding a distributed bug tracking
directory using ditz, remove most compilation warnings, and fix missing
prototypes (closes Debian bug #512463).

Internationalisation support has also been started, but no translations
are yet available, and most messages are not marked.  More work is
needed.

http://quozl.linux.org.au/netrek/
80bb2fdbd2454ba63304dccd6092ec1c  netrek-client-cow-3.2.10.tar.gz

Also on http://www.netrek.org/files/COW/

-- 
James Cameron    mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org     http://quozl.netrek.org/
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From quozl at us.netrek.org  Wed Mar 18 06:35:14 2009
From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 22:35:14 +1100
Subject: [netrek-dev] netrek internationalisation protocol changes
In-Reply-To: <20090316055725.GA15976@us.netrek.org>
References: <20090316055725.GA15976@us.netrek.org>
Message-ID: <20090318113514.GD12435@us.netrek.org>

Messages generated by the server should be translated before being
displayed by the client.

This depends on knowing which language to use.  On GNU systems the
GNU gettext internationalisation and localisation library determines
this.

For messages that are in encoded by short packets, the translations can
be client-side, per short.c.

For messages that are not encoded by short packets, the translations can
be server-side.

Therefore the server needs to know the language choice of the client
user.

So I propose a CP_FEATURE packet with name LC_MESSAGES, and value set to
the the client's value of LC_MESSAGES, LANGUAGES, or LANG.  On receipt
of this the server will begin to use translated messages if available,
and the server will assume the client has the short packet translations.
If no translation is available, the default English messages will be
used.

Not only that, but because the translation must be done as early as
possible, this CP_FEATURE packet will need to be sent before the SP_MOTD
begins to flow, so that a translated MOTD can be sent.

With reference to the protocol description in include/packets.h of the
server ... any comments as to how to achieve a translated MOTD without
destroying backward compatibility or adding delays?

-- 
James Cameron    mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org     http://quozl.netrek.org/


From niclas at acc.umu.se  Wed Mar 18 07:15:37 2009
From: niclas at acc.umu.se (Niclas Fredriksson)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 13:15:37 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [netrek-dev] netrek internationalisation protocol changes
In-Reply-To: <20090318113514.GD12435@us.netrek.org>
References: <20090316055725.GA15976@us.netrek.org>
	<20090318113514.GD12435@us.netrek.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0903181314230.24914@shaka.acc.umu.se>

On Wed, 18 Mar 2009, James Cameron wrote:

> Messages generated by the server should be translated before being 
> displayed by the client.

Why? What countries have players that don't understand English? What led 
you to conclude this is something that the server needs?

-- 
Niclas


From quozl at us.netrek.org  Wed Mar 18 18:23:56 2009
From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 10:23:56 +1100
Subject: [netrek-dev] netrek internationalisation protocol changes
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0903181314230.24914@shaka.acc.umu.se>
References: <20090316055725.GA15976@us.netrek.org>
	<20090318113514.GD12435@us.netrek.org>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0903181314230.24914@shaka.acc.umu.se>
Message-ID: <20090318232356.GM5597@us.netrek.org>

On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 01:15:37PM +0100, Niclas Fredriksson wrote:
> Why? What countries have players that don't understand English? What led 
> you to conclude this is something that the server needs?

This is part of an ongoing effort, you can find some more detail in the
development Wiki.  The target is players who do not yet play.  You need
not contribute if you do not wish to.

-- 
James Cameron    mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org     http://quozl.netrek.org/


From niclas at acc.umu.se  Thu Mar 19 03:53:53 2009
From: niclas at acc.umu.se (Niclas Fredriksson)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 09:53:53 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [netrek-dev] netrek internationalisation protocol changes
In-Reply-To: <20090318232356.GM5597@us.netrek.org>
References: <20090316055725.GA15976@us.netrek.org>
	<20090318113514.GD12435@us.netrek.org>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0903181314230.24914@shaka.acc.umu.se>
	<20090318232356.GM5597@us.netrek.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0903190948090.5526@shaka.acc.umu.se>

On Thu, 19 Mar 2009, James Cameron wrote:

> This is part of an ongoing effort, you can find some more detail in the
> development Wiki.

Where is that exactly?

I found http://wiki.us.netrek.org/ but that doesn't seem to be it because 
neither http://wiki.us.netrek.org/index.php/Main_Page#Server nor 
http://wiki.us.netrek.org/index.php/ClientIdeas (which is the only page 
that turns up when searching for "translate") contains any information on 
this.

A google search for "netrek development wiki" leads to 
http://wiki.us.netrek.org/netrek-dev/ which is a 404.

http://wiki.netrek.org/ redirects to the first wiki 
(http://wiki.us.netrek.org/). A search for "development" on that wiki only 
turns up http://wiki.netrek.org/index.php/Development_Tools.

By the way, I like classic yellow netrek logo a lot better than the new 
one currently on http://wiki.us.netrek.org/ (sorry Zach).

-- 
Niclas


From sven-netrek-dev at sven.de  Thu Mar 19 07:25:27 2009
From: sven-netrek-dev at sven.de (Sven Neuhaus)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 13:25:27 +0100
Subject: [netrek-dev] wiki.netrek.org
Message-ID: <20090319122527.GA22859@ping.de>

Hi,

thanks to Niclas for getting my attention by forwarding the email.

@John:
I updated the DNS and added wiki.netrek.org. The secondary DNS should be
updated soon, too.

@Bob: It won't do any good to add your hosts as slaves because I am not
running bind (and not running axfrd) so you would be out of sync soon. Dan
is working on a new DNS setup so the three of us can update the DNS if
needed.

I subscribed to this list now btw.

And if you need to reach me it's faster to use sven\at/sven.de instead of
the ping.de address...

-Sven
PS: I have problems getting through to the list due to my mailserver
    being blocked by the server for us.netrek.org, I contacted Bob about it


From netrek at gmail.com  Thu Mar 19 12:38:50 2009
From: netrek at gmail.com (Zach Uram)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 13:38:50 -0400
Subject: [netrek-dev] netrek internationalisation protocol changes
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0903190948090.5526@shaka.acc.umu.se>
References: <20090316055725.GA15976@us.netrek.org>
	<20090318113514.GD12435@us.netrek.org>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0903181314230.24914@shaka.acc.umu.se>
	<20090318232356.GM5597@us.netrek.org>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0903190948090.5526@shaka.acc.umu.se>
Message-ID: <ecfa260c0903191038x3770a388l814bfeb24f15ebe3@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 4:53 AM, Niclas Fredriksson <niclas at acc.umu.se> wrote:
>
> By the way, I like classic yellow netrek logo a lot better than the new
> one currently on http://wiki.us.netrek.org/ (sorry Zach).

Hi,

There is no yellow netrek logo at usable sizes, just the very small
one that appears in the URL bar. There are now 4 variations of the new
netrek logo:
www.jesujuva.org/netrek-logo/

You can see them with the page background set to black here:
www.jesujuva.org/netrek-logo/index2.html

If you think one with the classic yellow color would be nice I can
sample the color and generate one.

Zach


From niclas at acc.umu.se  Thu Mar 19 12:54:42 2009
From: niclas at acc.umu.se (Niclas Fredriksson)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 18:54:42 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [netrek-dev] Netrek logo (was: Re: netrek internationalisation
 protocol changes)
In-Reply-To: <ecfa260c0903191038x3770a388l814bfeb24f15ebe3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090316055725.GA15976@us.netrek.org>
	<20090318113514.GD12435@us.netrek.org>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0903181314230.24914@shaka.acc.umu.se>
	<20090318232356.GM5597@us.netrek.org>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0903190948090.5526@shaka.acc.umu.se>
	<ecfa260c0903191038x3770a388l814bfeb24f15ebe3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0903191848180.8540@shaka.acc.umu.se>

Is this the right forum for this? I'll continue until someone says 
otherwise.

On Thu, 19 Mar 2009, Zach Uram wrote:

> There is no yellow netrek logo at usable sizes, just the very small
> one that appears in the URL bar.

That's the one I like. It's the icon for most (all?) netrek clients.

> There are now 4 variations of the new
> netrek logo:
> www.jesujuva.org/netrek-logo/
>
> You can see them with the page background set to black here:
> www.jesujuva.org/netrek-logo/index2.html

I don't like these for the following reasons:

1) The "badge" is crooked.
2) The "radio waves" make no sense and shouldn't be there.
3) The font is ugly.
4) I'm not even sure we need anything besides just a yellow, non-crooked, 
"badge". At least that's what I'd like to see (if it's not copy righted by 
Star Trek).

That is if we really need a logo. I've played this game for ages without 
actually realizing (or caring) that the client logo (icon) isn't the 
netrek logo.

-- 
Niclas


From jrd at gerdesas.com  Thu Mar 19 13:57:05 2009
From: jrd at gerdesas.com (John R. Dennison)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 13:57:05 -0500
Subject: [netrek-dev] Netrek logo (was: Re: netrek internationalisation
	protocol changes)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0903191848180.8540@shaka.acc.umu.se>
References: <20090316055725.GA15976@us.netrek.org>
	<20090318113514.GD12435@us.netrek.org>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0903181314230.24914@shaka.acc.umu.se>
	<20090318232356.GM5597@us.netrek.org>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0903190948090.5526@shaka.acc.umu.se>
	<ecfa260c0903191038x3770a388l814bfeb24f15ebe3@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0903191848180.8540@shaka.acc.umu.se>
Message-ID: <20090319185704.GD4593@frodo.gerdesas.com>

On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 06:54:42PM +0100, Niclas Fredriksson wrote:
> Is this the right forum for this? I'll continue until someone says 
> otherwise.

	It's fine :)
> That is if we really need a logo. I've played this game for ages without 
> actually realizing (or caring) that the client logo (icon) isn't the 
> netrek logo.

	It's an issue of branding.  I can not for the life of me think
	of a single FOSS project that is not readily identifiable by
	it's logo.  While I am not convinced that the logo that Zach
	has had designed is completely unencumbered of trademark and
	copyright issues it's far more modern than the simplistic
	communicator badge icon that's been in use since the dawn
	of mankind (personal opinion, obviously).

	Whether we adopt Zach's logo or not I feel that we do need
	a new one to help identify the project.  There is, of course,
 	no reason that the current badge icon can not remain the
	client icon and favicon.icon of the website, etc.





						John


-- 
"I'm sorry but our engineers do not have phones."
As stated by a Network Solutions Customer Service representative when asked to
be put through to an engineer.

"My other computer is your windows box."
                                     Ralf Hildebrandt
<sxem> trying to play sturgeon while it's under attack is apparently not fun.
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From jrd at gerdesas.com  Thu Mar 19 14:18:39 2009
From: jrd at gerdesas.com (John R. Dennison)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 14:18:39 -0500
Subject: [netrek-dev] wiki.netrek.org
In-Reply-To: <20090319122527.GA22859@ping.de>
References: <20090319122527.GA22859@ping.de>
Message-ID: <20090319191838.GE4593@frodo.gerdesas.com>

On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 01:25:27PM +0100, Sven Neuhaus wrote:
>
> @John:
> I updated the DNS and added wiki.netrek.org. The secondary DNS should be
> updated soon, too.

	Sven,

	Thank you for your attention in this.  However, the CNAME that
	is in place on b.ns.netrek.org is tied to a machine host A
	record and not a role record.  If you have the time can you
	please change it (and the secondary on a.ns.netrek.org) to
	a CNAME pointing to "ntwiki.gerdesas.com"; this is a role
	record that I can change as needs warrant in the event that
	I must move the service to another host independently of
	other services on the "radagast" host.

	Sorry for the trouble and thank you again.




							John


-- 
"I'm sorry but our engineers do not have phones."
As stated by a Network Solutions Customer Service representative when asked to
be put through to an engineer.

"My other computer is your windows box."
                                     Ralf Hildebrandt
<sxem> trying to play sturgeon while it's under attack is apparently not fun.
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From netrek at gmail.com  Thu Mar 19 16:33:36 2009
From: netrek at gmail.com (Zach Uram)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 17:33:36 -0400
Subject: [netrek-dev] Netrek logo (was: Re: netrek internationalisation
	protocol changes)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0903191848180.8540@shaka.acc.umu.se>
References: <20090316055725.GA15976@us.netrek.org>
	<20090318113514.GD12435@us.netrek.org>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0903181314230.24914@shaka.acc.umu.se>
	<20090318232356.GM5597@us.netrek.org>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0903190948090.5526@shaka.acc.umu.se>
	<ecfa260c0903191038x3770a388l814bfeb24f15ebe3@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0903191848180.8540@shaka.acc.umu.se>
Message-ID: <ecfa260c0903191433h168d78b4t93636031b4a58ab1@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 1:54 PM, Niclas Fredriksson <niclas at acc.umu.se> wrote:
>
> I don't like these for the following reasons:
>
> 1) The "badge" is crooked.
> 2) The "radio waves" make no sense and shouldn't be there.
> 3) The font is ugly.
> 4) I'm not even sure we need anything besides just a yellow, non-crooked,
> "badge". At least that's what I'd like to see (if it's not copy righted by
> Star Trek).

You are entitled to your opinion but I disagree with all 4 points. It
is a fresh, contemporary logo. This is 2008 not 1988! No one else put
forward any effort in designing a new netrek logo so you are welcome
to do so.

Zach


From quozl at us.netrek.org  Thu Mar 19 17:27:36 2009
From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 09:27:36 +1100
Subject: [netrek-dev] netrek internationalisation protocol changes
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0903190948090.5526@shaka.acc.umu.se>
References: <20090316055725.GA15976@us.netrek.org>
	<20090318113514.GD12435@us.netrek.org>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0903181314230.24914@shaka.acc.umu.se>
	<20090318232356.GM5597@us.netrek.org>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0903190948090.5526@shaka.acc.umu.se>
Message-ID: <20090319222736.GI6340@us.netrek.org>

On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 09:53:53AM +0100, Niclas Fredriksson wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Mar 2009, James Cameron wrote:
> 
> > This is part of an ongoing effort, you can find some more detail in the
> > development Wiki.
> 
> Where is that exactly?
> 
> I found http://wiki.us.netrek.org/ but that doesn't seem to be it because 
> neither http://wiki.us.netrek.org/index.php/Main_Page#Server nor 
> http://wiki.us.netrek.org/index.php/ClientIdeas (which is the only page 
> that turns up when searching for "translate") contains any information on 
> this.

Good point, nobody used the word "translate", they used the word
"translation"

http://wiki.us.netrek.org/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=translation&ns0=1&fulltext=Search

> By the way, I like classic yellow netrek logo a lot better than the new 
> one currently on http://wiki.us.netrek.org/ (sorry Zach).

Me too.

-- 
James Cameron    mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org     http://quozl.netrek.org/


From quozl at us.netrek.org  Thu Mar 19 22:05:16 2009
From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 14:05:16 +1100
Subject: [netrek-dev] netrek-client-cow 3.2.10 debian packages
Message-ID: <20090320030516.GA29289@us.netrek.org>

Our Debian developer has prepared packages for netrek-client-cow 3.2.10
and would welcome some testing.

http://people.debian.org/~bdefreese/netrek/

(Works for me).

-- 
James Cameron    mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org     http://quozl.netrek.org/


From ahn at orion.netrek.org  Fri Mar 20 11:39:34 2009
From: ahn at orion.netrek.org (Dave Ahn)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 12:39:34 -0400
Subject: [netrek-dev] Netrek logo (was: Re: netrek internationalisation
	protocol changes)
In-Reply-To: <ecfa260c0903191433h168d78b4t93636031b4a58ab1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090316055725.GA15976@us.netrek.org>
	<20090318113514.GD12435@us.netrek.org>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0903181314230.24914@shaka.acc.umu.se>
	<20090318232356.GM5597@us.netrek.org>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0903190948090.5526@shaka.acc.umu.se>
	<ecfa260c0903191038x3770a388l814bfeb24f15ebe3@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0903191848180.8540@shaka.acc.umu.se>
	<ecfa260c0903191433h168d78b4t93636031b4a58ab1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090320163934.GA30366@orion.netrek.org>

I've always liked the original "logo" from yester-century.  Of course,
I'm biased.

http://web.archive.org/web/20020122184404/http://www.netrek.org/img/nc3.gif


On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 05:33:36PM -0400, Zach Uram wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 1:54 PM, Niclas Fredriksson <niclas at acc.umu.se> wrote:
> >
> > I don't like these for the following reasons:
> >
> > 1) The "badge" is crooked.
> > 2) The "radio waves" make no sense and shouldn't be there.
> > 3) The font is ugly.
> > 4) I'm not even sure we need anything besides just a yellow, non-crooked,
> > "badge". At least that's what I'd like to see (if it's not copy righted by
> > Star Trek).
> 
> You are entitled to your opinion but I disagree with all 4 points. It
> is a fresh, contemporary logo. This is 2008 not 1988! No one else put
> forward any effort in designing a new netrek logo so you are welcome
> to do so.
> 
> Zach
> 
> _______________________________________________
> netrek-dev mailing list
> netrek-dev at us.netrek.org
> http://mailman.us.netrek.org/mailman/listinfo/netrek-dev


From karthik at karthik.com  Fri Mar 20 13:20:15 2009
From: karthik at karthik.com (Karthik Arumugham)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 14:20:15 -0400
Subject: [netrek-dev] Netrek logo (was: Re: netrek internationalisation
	protocol changes)
In-Reply-To: <20090320163934.GA30366@orion.netrek.org>
References: <20090316055725.GA15976@us.netrek.org>
	<20090318113514.GD12435@us.netrek.org>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0903181314230.24914@shaka.acc.umu.se>
	<20090318232356.GM5597@us.netrek.org>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0903190948090.5526@shaka.acc.umu.se>
	<ecfa260c0903191038x3770a388l814bfeb24f15ebe3@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0903191848180.8540@shaka.acc.umu.se>
	<ecfa260c0903191433h168d78b4t93636031b4a58ab1@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090320163934.GA30366@orion.netrek.org>
Message-ID: <FD9A001F-AB90-4806-82B3-6BC6499993B8@karthik.com>

I'm not a fan of the new logo either. I guess I just don't like the  
look of it overall; it's too busy, not all that aesthetically pleasing  
to me...and I think "re-branding" with a new logo is one of the lesser  
of our concerns right now.

I also have the same copyright concerns that have been brought up. The  
Star Trek communicator badge-style design isn't so bad in itself in  
that regard (we're already doing that), but the "trek" part of  
"netrek" being visibly highlighted on its own makes it an obvious rip  
off of Star Trek.

I like the good old yellow logo. It's simple, looks nice, and still  
SAYS Star Trek to the viewer without explicitly doing so. Since it was  
pointed out there's no larger version, surely someone could blow it up  
(or even better, turn it into an SVG.)


From quozl at us.netrek.org  Wed Mar 25 21:57:16 2009
From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 13:57:16 +1100
Subject: [netrek-dev] darcs.cgi -> darcsweb.cgi
Message-ID: <20090326025716.GA26618@us.netrek.org>

I've migrated from darcs-server to darcsweb on james.tooraweenah.com, so
the web view of patches in my repositories will be different.  Old links
aren't valid any longer.  The old URIs began with /cgi-bin/darcs.cgi

New URL is
http://james.tooraweenah.com/cgi-bin/darcsweb.cgi

The interface is similar to gitweb.

References:

http://wiki.netrek.org/index.php/SourceControl

-- 
James Cameron    mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org     http://quozl.netrek.org/


From basic at us.netrek.org  Wed Mar 25 23:51:36 2009
From: basic at us.netrek.org (Bob Tanner)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 23:51:36 -0500
Subject: [netrek-dev] darcs.cgi -> darcsweb.cgi
References: <20090326025716.GA26618@us.netrek.org>
Message-ID: <gqf1ko$f6r$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2009-03-25 21:57:16 -0500, James Cameron 
<quozl at us.netrek.org> said:

> I've migrated from darcs-server to darcsweb on james.tooraweenah.com, so
> the web view of patches in my repositories will be different.  Old links
> aren't valid any longer.  The old URIs began with /cgi-bin/darcs.cgi
> 
> New URL is
> http://james.tooraweenah.com/cgi-bin/darcsweb.cgi
> 
> The interface is similar to gitweb.
> 
> References:
> 
> http://wiki.netrek.org/index.php/SourceControl

Apache mod_rewrite FTW!

-- 
Bob Tanner <basic at us.netrek.org>          
Key fingerprint = F785 DDFC CF94 7CE8 AA87 3A9D 3895 26F1 0DDB E378




From quozl at us.netrek.org  Thu Mar 26 00:12:47 2009
From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 16:12:47 +1100
Subject: [netrek-dev] darcs.cgi -> darcsweb.cgi
In-Reply-To: <gqf1ko$f6r$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <20090326025716.GA26618@us.netrek.org> <gqf1ko$f6r$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20090326051247.GA1655@us.netrek.org>

On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 11:51:36PM -0500, Bob Tanner wrote:
> Apache mod_rewrite FTW!

Yes, probably doable.  But I lack the fu.  I think the arguments may
differ as well.  ;-}

-- 
James Cameron    mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org     http://quozl.netrek.org/


From netrek at gmail.com  Fri Mar 27 20:28:33 2009
From: netrek at gmail.com (Zach Uram)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 21:28:33 -0400
Subject: [netrek-dev] some new logos
Message-ID: <ecfa260c0903271828j727ef776od2b13824b464aadc@mail.gmail.com>

Hi guys,

I've added some new netrek logos my friends designed. They are
licensed fairly openly so if you want to use it feel free and if you
don't like any of them that is also fine. Any feedback is appreciated.
My friends are pretty busy so this will likely be the last logos I can
offer unless I make some myself. It should be noted I am not claiming
these as the new "official" netrek logos. If someone else has other
logos they wish to put forth go for it. I saw a need so I tried to
fill it since no one else had in over a decade.

http://www.jesujuva.org/netrek-logo/

Regards,
Zach


From netrek at gmail.com  Sat Mar 28 21:34:07 2009
From: netrek at gmail.com (Zach Uram)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 22:34:07 -0400
Subject: [netrek-dev] some new logos
Message-ID: <ecfa260c0903281934n51a874d9x239f06f2a70c0264@mail.gmail.com>

Hi guys,

I've added some new netrek logos my friends designed. They are
licensed fairly openly so if you want to use it feel free and if you
don't like any of them that is also fine. Any feedback is appreciated.
My friends are pretty busy so this will likely be the last logos I can
offer unless I make some myself. It should be noted I am not claiming
these as the new "official" netrek logos. If someone else has other
logos they wish to put forth go for it. I saw a need so I tried to
fill it since no one else had in over a decade.

http://www.jesujuva.org/netrek-logo/

Regards,
Zach