From joel at joelschneider.net Wed Oct 1 00:33:43 2003 From: joel at joelschneider.net (Joel Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] NAS Distro In-Reply-To: <146431CFD07FE94984B432636FCDF8060FB850@C1MAIL1.agiliti.net>; from ben.neigebauer@compellent.com on Tue, Sep 30, 2003 at 02:11:57PM -0500 References: <146431CFD07FE94984B432636FCDF8060FB850@C1MAIL1.agiliti.net> Message-ID: <20031001003343.B22003@joelschneider.net> On Tue, Sep 30, 2003 at 02:11:57PM -0500, Neigebauer, Ben wrote: > Is there a distro for just NAS devices? > > Anything with an easy to configure interface? Not sure. Just about any Linux distro can be configured to act as a file server using Samba ... DistroWatch.com is a good source of general information on distros: http://distrowatch.com/ A distro specific to NAS devices sounds like it would run on an embedded system, so LinuxDevices.com might also be good place to look around: http://linuxdevices.com/ -- Joel Schneider joel@joelschneider.net Linux makes computing fun again. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Wed Oct 1 07:40:35 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] command-line email tool In-Reply-To: <001d01c387b9$8a57b850$0201a8c0@brinstar> References: <20030930155530.GA5332@wookimus.net> <001d01c387b9$8a57b850$0201a8c0@brinstar> Message-ID: <3F7ACB43.9030303@visi.com> Try this echo This is mail from the command line | mail xxxx@xxxx.xxxx David Phillips wrote: >Chad Walstrom writes: > > >>nmh is a non-interactive command-line email tool. In other words, >>I don't need to leave the "shell$" prompt for anything. I would >>use maildir format if I had a comparable tool. >> >> > >The nice thing about Maildir is that it is usable with standard tools, such >as grep. You might like the mess822 package, which contains a number of >tools to manipulate RFC 822 messages, such as a file in a Maildir. These >tools are also useful in .qmail files. > >http://cr.yp.to/mess822.html > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From JAustad at temgweb.com Wed Oct 1 09:29:43 2003 From: JAustad at temgweb.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] scanner help needed Message-ID: <288FAF5565A1A74EA5E35C39E7EE1D420A1BDC1E@mail.temgweb.com> What kind of scanner is it? To get my Epson USB scanner working, I had to pass some args to the scanner.o module telling it what type of scanner it was, something like vendor=xxx and type=xxx. Should be on the page for Sane. > -----Original Message----- > From: Rick Meyerhoff [mailto:rick@eworld3.net] > Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 8:39 PM > To: TCLUG > Subject: [TCLUG] scanner help needed > > > Someone at the last installfest gave me a USB scanner but I have not > been able to get it working. I have never worked with any > scanner before. > > I am running Mandrake 9.1 & I installed SANE. I've read all the man > pages and searched the web but I can't figure out why it does > not work. > > - When I turn on the scanner, I get an Xsane icon on my desktop. > > - The Mandrake control center, ScannerDrake sees the scanner. > > - SANE supports the scanner. > > - The device gets created: > $ ll /dev/usb > total 0 > crw-rw---- 1 rick usb 180, 48 Dec 31 1969 scanner0 > drwxr-xr-x 1 root root 0 Dec 31 1969 tts/ > > - When I try to use Xsane, it says: > "Failed to open device 'snapscan:/dev/usb/scanner0': Invalid argument" > > - scanimage is similarly unhappy: > $ scanimage > [snapscan] download_firmware: No firmware entry found in config file > snapscan.conf. > scanimage: open of device snapscan:/dev/usb/scanner0 failed: Invalid > argument > > I can't figure out what argument it is talking about? > -- > Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff > rick@eworld3.net > 952-929-1659 > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Wed Oct 1 09:56:19 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Slackware 9.1 Message-ID: <20031001095619.30b44fe4.sfertch@real-time.com> Slackware 9.1 released on September 26th. Lots of new things, including a new package management system and Gnome 2.4.0 and KDE 3.1.4 and more. =) http://www.slackware.com/announce/9.1.php Should be getting my cd's in the mail soon! -- Shawn The difficult we do today; the impossible take a little longer. Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com Wed Oct 1 10:00:58 2003 From: Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com (Lansing, Dan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Slackware 9.1 Message-ID: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D371B@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> I talked to them the other day...they said that the subscriptions should get in the mail starting Friday....w00t Dan Lansing -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Shawn Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 9:56 AM To: TCLUG Subject: [TCLUG] Slackware 9.1 Slackware 9.1 released on September 26th. Lots of new things, including a new package management system and Gnome 2.4.0 and KDE 3.1.4 and more. =) http://www.slackware.com/announce/9.1.php Should be getting my cd's in the mail soon! -- Shawn The difficult we do today; the impossible take a little longer. Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Wed Oct 1 10:15:24 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Slackware 9.1 In-Reply-To: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D371B@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> References: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D371B@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> Message-ID: <3F7AEF8C.3010002@visi.com> I was on the slackware site looking to get a base install to look at I've down loaded bare.i color.gz pcmcia.dsk network.dsk I want to put slackware on my old 486 and was wondering if any of the LUG slackers have used this method to install slackware? I don't want any X windows just a terminal. Sam. Lansing, Dan wrote: >I talked to them the other day...they said that the subscriptions should get in the mail starting Friday....w00t > >Dan Lansing > >-----Original Message----- >From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Shawn >Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 9:56 AM >To: TCLUG >Subject: [TCLUG] Slackware 9.1 > >Slackware 9.1 released on September 26th. Lots of new things, including a new package management system and Gnome 2.4.0 and KDE 3.1.4 and more. =) > > >http://www.slackware.com/announce/9.1.php > >Should be getting my cd's in the mail soon! > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net Wed Oct 1 10:18:21 2003 From: scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Slackware 9.1 In-Reply-To: <3F7AEF8C.3010002@visi.com>; from smac@visi.com on Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 10:15:24AM -0500 References: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D371B@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> <3F7AEF8C.3010002@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031001101821.D23054@thinkunix.net> yup, all the time. not sure about 9.1, but I don't think the instructions have changed much if all from 9.0. Just follow the instructions in rootdisks/pcmcia.dsk.README (from cdrom, iso image or the ftp site). works great. BTW - if you need pcmcia NIC cards let me know I have some extra I'd be willing to sell. Sam MacDonald wrote: > I was on the slackware site looking to get a base install to look at > I've down loaded > bare.i > color.gz > pcmcia.dsk > network.dsk > I want to put slackware on my old 486 and was wondering if any of the > LUG slackers have used this method to install slackware? > I don't want any X windows just a terminal. -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ben_b at ppdonline.com Wed Oct 1 10:17:29 2003 From: ben_b at ppdonline.com (Ben Bargabus) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... Message-ID: <3F7AF009.2050409@ppdonline.com> I was bored and thinking that it would be interesting to hear what some of your favorite Linux/Unix programs are. Maybe an interesting response will inspire me to learn something new. Anyway, what are your favorite programs, why, and what do you use them for? (if any of you are as bored as me today maybe this will start an interesting thread ;-) Later, Ben. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net Wed Oct 1 10:21:42 2003 From: scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... In-Reply-To: <3F7AF009.2050409@ppdonline.com>; from ben_b@ppdonline.com on Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 08:17:29AM -0700 References: <3F7AF009.2050409@ppdonline.com> Message-ID: <20031001102142.E23054@thinkunix.net> cd /usr/bin ls pick one, and "man " there's probably plenty there to keep one busy for at least weeks... Ben Bargabus wrote: > I was bored and thinking that it would be interesting to hear what some > of your favorite Linux/Unix programs are. Maybe an interesting response > will inspire me to learn something new. Anyway, what are your favorite > programs, why, and what do you use them for? (if any of you are as > bored as me today maybe this will start an interesting thread ;-) > Later, > Ben. > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cschumann at twp-llc.com Wed Oct 1 10:25:49 2003 From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Stepping up to SMP Message-ID: My company has a server (old Netfinity 5000) with a single CPU running Red Hat Linux 9. It works very well for us, but now we're using it to show off an Apache/Tomcat/PHP solution and the 350MHz PII is just too slow. We're going to install two 550MHz PIII CPU's, which are the fastest the motherboard supports (something to do with power and the VRM's, I think). We'll also be adding RAM in hopes to get the used swap space back to zero. I would greatly appreciate it if someone would point me to a document on how to install an SMP kernel and get both CPU's working. Many thanks, Chris Schumann _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Wed Oct 1 10:36:47 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... In-Reply-To: <3F7AF009.2050409@ppdonline.com> Message-ID: In no particular order: awk rogue fuser (even though it doesn't do what the name implies) killall (Linux version) jot Every once in awhile I pick up a sob story on usenet or sun-managers about someone who came from a Linux background and used SunOS' killall, thinking it did what Linux's killall does. It doesn't. Not at all. It does EXACTLY what the name implies. This makes for some great fodder when the person ran killall on, say, a large financial firm's E10k. So while the BOFH side of me really likes the finger-of-death tool that Sun has bestowed upon us, I sometimes yearn for the Linuxy version on my BSDI boxes (although FreeBSD does have it). Jot is a neat one - it's part of standard BSD, I've never seen it included in a Linux distro. From the manpage: NAME jot - print sequential or random data Yeah, it sounds really dull and stupid, but you wouldn't believe how handy it is. Like to setup an in-addr zone quickly: jot 254 1 | \ awk '{ printf("%s\t\tIN\tPTR\t192-168-1-%s.domain.com.\n", $1, $1) }' gives: 1 IN PTR 192-168-1-1.domain.com. 2 IN PTR 192-168-1-2.domain.com. ... 254 IN PTR 192-168-1-254.domain.com. On Wed, 1 Oct 2003, Ben Bargabus wrote: > I was bored and thinking that it would be interesting to hear what some > of your favorite Linux/Unix programs are. Maybe an interesting response > will inspire me to learn something new. Anyway, what are your favorite > programs, why, and what do you use them for? (if any of you are as > bored as me today maybe this will start an interesting thread ;-) > Later, > Ben. > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > Adam Maloney Systems Administrator Sihope Communications _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Wed Oct 1 10:40:38 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... In-Reply-To: <20031001102142.E23054@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: It's interesting that you posted this - I think I remember reading in O'Reilly's "Essential System Administration" that there are many people who go through all of the system-included binaries once or twice a year and if they don't know what a command does, read the manpage on it. I thought it was kind of an interesting concept - and you really would be surprised to see how many commands you've never even heard of. Not you Scot, I'm talking in general :) On Wed, 1 Oct 2003, Scot Jenkins wrote: > cd /usr/bin > ls > pick one, and "man " > > there's probably plenty there to keep one busy for at least weeks... Adam Maloney Systems Administrator Sihope Communications _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From list at slushpupie.com Wed Oct 1 10:55:56 2003 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... In-Reply-To: References: <3F7AF009.2050409@ppdonline.com> Message-ID: <20031001105556.0b498051.list@slushpupie.com> On Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:36:47 -0500 (CDT) Adam Maloney wrote: >Jot is a neat one - it's part of standard BSD, I've never seen it included >in a Linux distro. From the manpage: >NAME > jot - print sequential or random data > >Yeah, it sounds really dull and stupid, but you wouldn't believe how handy >it is. Like to setup an in-addr zone quickly: > >jot 254 1 | \ >awk '{ printf("%s\t\tIN\tPTR\t192-168-1-%s.domain.com.\n", $1, $1) }' >gives: >1 IN PTR 192-168-1-1.domain.com. >2 IN PTR 192-168-1-2.domain.com. >... >254 IN PTR 192-168-1-254.domain.com. The example you did here can also be done with seq _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rware at interplastic.com Wed Oct 1 10:59:12 2003 From: rware at interplastic.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... Message-ID: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B153@ipserver2.interplastic.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Adam Maloney [mailto:adamm@sihope.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 10:37 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... > > Every once in awhile I pick up a sob story on usenet or > sun-managers about > someone who came from a Linux background and used SunOS' > killall, thinking > it did what Linux's killall does. It doesn't. Not at all. It does > EXACTLY what the name implies. This makes for some great > fodder when the > person ran killall on, say, a large financial firm's E10k. Linux NAME killall - kill processes by name Solaris NAME killall - kill all active processes Yup, significant difference. Why Linux named it that is a good question. Killproc would have been better I think. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Wed Oct 1 11:08:54 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... References: Message-ID: <001801c38836$4fadfd40$0201a8c0@brinstar> Adam Maloney writes: > jot - print sequential or random data > > Yeah, it sounds really dull and stupid, but you wouldn't believe how > handy it is. Like to setup an in-addr zone quickly: That's funny, I've always liked seq for that, since it is so much easier to use (the first argument to jot is the size of the set, not the ending number). In fact, I have a shell script called 'seq' that I use on my FreeBSD boxes: #!/bin/sh if [ "$#" -ne 2 ] ; then echo "usage: seq FIRST LAST" exit 1 fi jot $(echo 1+$2-$1 | bc) $1 $2 > jot 254 1 | \ > awk '{ printf("%s\t\tIN\tPTR\t192-168-1-%s.domain.com.\n", $1, $1) }' Ick, who likes zone files? I'd rather use tinydns or MyDNS, both of which can do automatic PTR records. Speaking of DNS, if you have a lot of DNS data, you should check out the latest version of MyDNS. The web interface has been re-written and is really nice. The automatic PTR record feature works very well in combination with the server side alias functionality (--enable-alias), which I originally wrote. http://mydns.bboy.net/graphics/mydns-screenshot.png -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From JAustad at temgweb.com Wed Oct 1 11:14:22 2003 From: JAustad at temgweb.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... Message-ID: <288FAF5565A1A74EA5E35C39E7EE1D420A1BDC27@mail.temgweb.com> http://www.dest-unreach.org/socat/ I discovered it last week, and I've ended up using it almost every day since for various things. Very sweet app. > -----Original Message----- > From: Ben Bargabus [mailto:ben_b@ppdonline.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 10:17 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... > > > I was bored and thinking that it would be interesting to hear > what some > of your favorite Linux/Unix programs are. Maybe an > interesting response > will inspire me to learn something new. Anyway, what are > your favorite > programs, why, and what do you use them for? (if any of you are as > bored as me today maybe this will start an interesting thread ;-) > Later, > Ben. > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From admin at screechowl.org Wed Oct 1 06:54:54 2003 From: admin at screechowl.org (administrator) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] (no subject) Message-ID: This is mail from the command line _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From duns0014 at umn.edu Wed Oct 1 11:41:47 2003 From: duns0014 at umn.edu (Joe Dunsmore) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] redhat 9: can't find redhat in cdrom Message-ID: <3F7B03CB.7010908@umn.edu> So I was trying to install redhat 9, as I get partway through the install, it asks where I'm installing from, so I say cdrom. Then it gives me an error message saying it can't find redhat in the cdrom. I'll note that the light on my cdrom drive does not flicker after I click cdrom install. I found a page on redhat's website about this problem and it said at the boot prompt to type linux hdx=cdrom. where x is a, b, c, or d depending on what drive your cdrom is. I tried this with the same results. Other people have ecountered this I found out from google and a scratched cd is common, but I don't see how this could happen if the light never flickered on. Should I try burning another cd? any other clues? thanks. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tsinks at isd.net Wed Oct 1 12:13:03 2003 From: tsinks at isd.net (Tim Sinks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] redhat 9: can't find redhat in cdrom References: <3F7B03CB.7010908@umn.edu> Message-ID: <008001c3883f$469cbc60$0300000a@net.tsinks> it might be cdrom1 and not letter or just cdrom. My drives are labeled in rh9 as cdrom and cdrom1. also, if you have m$ on the disk lookat it's designation. it may not be recognizing the drive type. do a text install to get the drive in the system Tim Sinks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Dunsmore" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 11:41 AM Subject: [TCLUG] redhat 9: can't find redhat in cdrom > So I was trying to install redhat 9, as I get partway through the > install, it asks where I'm installing from, so I say cdrom. Then it > gives me an error message saying it can't find redhat in the cdrom. > I'll note that the light on my cdrom drive does not flicker after I > click cdrom install. I found a page on redhat's website about this > problem and it said at the boot prompt to type linux hdx=cdrom. where x > is a, b, c, or d depending on what drive your cdrom is. I tried this > with the same results. Other people have ecountered this I found out > from google and a scratched cd is common, but I don't see how this could > happen if the light never flickered on. Should I try burning another > cd? any other clues? thanks. > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Wed Oct 1 12:20:53 2003 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Stepping up to SMP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Oct 2003, Chris Schumann wrote: > I would greatly appreciate it if someone would point me to a document on > how to install an SMP kernel and get both CPU's working. All you really have to do is download the SMP kernel, rpm -ivh it, and modify your grub config to boot it per default. After you boot with the new kernel, cat /proc/cpuinfo should show both cpu's, and it'll magically "just work". :) -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Wed Oct 1 12:28:45 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... In-Reply-To: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B153@ipserver2.interplastic.com> References: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B153@ipserver2.interplastic.com> Message-ID: <3F7B0ECD.1050101@visi.com> LOLROF :oD Never Kill unless it's the only alternative. Sam. Ryan Ware wrote: > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Adam Maloney [mailto:adamm@sihope.com] >>Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 10:37 AM >>To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... >> >> > > > >>Every once in awhile I pick up a sob story on usenet or >>sun-managers about >>someone who came from a Linux background and used SunOS' >>killall, thinking >>it did what Linux's killall does. It doesn't. Not at all. It does >>EXACTLY what the name implies. This makes for some great >>fodder when the >>person ran killall on, say, a large financial firm's E10k. >> >> > > Linux NAME > killall - kill processes by name > >Solaris NAME > killall - kill all active processes > >Yup, significant difference. Why Linux named it that is a good question. >Killproc would have been better I think. > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Wed Oct 1 12:32:07 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Slackware 9.1 In-Reply-To: <20031001101821.D23054@thinkunix.net> References: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D371B@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> <3F7AEF8C.3010002@visi.com> <20031001101821.D23054@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <3F7B0F97.5070100@visi.com> I have a network card. I'm just interested in Slackware to see how it installs and runs. I've been experimenting with Debian but I want to see how much difference there is in the way the system runs with a different distribution on it. Sam. Scot Jenkins wrote: >yup, all the time. not sure about 9.1, but I don't think the >instructions have changed much if all from 9.0. >Just follow the instructions in rootdisks/pcmcia.dsk.README (from cdrom, >iso image or the ftp site). works great. > >BTW - if you need pcmcia NIC cards let me know I have some extra I'd be >willing to sell. > >Sam MacDonald wrote: > > >>I was on the slackware site looking to get a base install to look at >>I've down loaded >>bare.i >>color.gz >>pcmcia.dsk >>network.dsk >>I want to put slackware on my old 486 and was wondering if any of the >>LUG slackers have used this method to install slackware? >>I don't want any X windows just a terminal. >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gmcdavid at comcast.net Wed Oct 1 13:16:37 2003 From: gmcdavid at comcast.net (gmcdavid@comcast.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Slackware 9.1 Message-ID: 100120031816.24030.6e35@comcast.net > Slackware 9.1 released on September 26th. Lots of new things, including > a new package management system and Gnome 2.4.0 and KDE 3.1.4 and more. > =) > > > http://www.slackware.com/announce/9.1.php > > Should be getting my cd's in the mail soon! I have a subscription for the CD's, but I could not wait; I downloaded it. Since then I have already upgraded my Slack 9.0 box to 9.1. It took a couple hours one evening, during which I was also taking care of my two kids--sub-optimal working conditions :-)> There were a couple points I needed to think about it, but it was not really hard. I am pleased. Afterwards I was a little surprised at myself; I am not usually the sort of person who installs software less than a week after release. However, with Slackware I am comfortable making an exception. Glenn McDavid mailto:gmcdavid@comcast.net http://www.winternet.com/~gmcdavid _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Wed Oct 1 13:28:09 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Slackware 9.1 Message-ID: <20031001132809.257006f3.sfertch@real-time.com> On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 18:16:37 +0000 gmcdavid@comcast.net wrote: > I have a subscription for the CD's, but I could not wait; I downloaded > it. > > Since then I have already upgraded my Slack 9.0 box to 9.1. It took a > couple hours one evening, during which I was also taking care of my > two kids--sub-optimal working conditions :-)> There were a couple > points I needed to think about it, but it was not really hard. I am > pleased. > > Afterwards I was a little surprised at myself; I am not usually the > sort of person who installs software less than a week after release. > However, with Slackware I am comfortable making an exception. > I have a Slackware subscription as well. I generally wait for the CD's to arrive, but I might make an exception... Nah, I've already got way to many things going on to try and download and install right now... -- Shawn The difficult we do today; the impossible take a little longer. Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Wed Oct 1 13:30:20 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Slackware 9.1 In-Reply-To: 100120031816.24030.6e35@comcast.net Message-ID: That's because Slackware owns your 'fro :) I actually found installing Smackware much easier than a redhat install. > Afterwards I was a little surprised at myself; I am not usually the > sort of person who installs software less than a week after release. > However, with Slackware I am comfortable making an exception. > > Glenn McDavid > mailto:gmcdavid@comcast.net > http://www.winternet.com/~gmcdavid > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > Adam Maloney Systems Administrator Sihope Communications _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From william.layer at comcast.net Wed Oct 1 13:54:20 2003 From: william.layer at comcast.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Slackware 9.1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031001135420.33b1ff92.william.layer@comcast.net> On Wed, 1 Oct 2003 13:30:20 -0500 (CDT) Adam Maloney wrote: > That's because Slackware owns your 'fro :) > > I actually found installing Smackware much easier than a redhat install. Slackware has an element of sanity and predictability that I find lacking in pretty much every other distro. Slack just simply works, and gets better with every release. -L _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kremer at ringworld.org Wed Oct 1 14:20:35 2003 From: kremer at ringworld.org (Justin Kremer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] redhat 9: can't find redhat in cdrom In-Reply-To: <008001c3883f$469cbc60$0300000a@net.tsinks> Message-ID: <551D5102-F444-11D7-80B2-000A957FC086@ringworld.org> Actually, that is just a thing they do to make it more user friendly. /dev/cdrom is just a symlink to the actual device. [kremer@RHINTTEST kremer]$ ls -l /dev/cdrom lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 8 Sep 11 15:59 /dev/cdrom -> /dev/hdd Joe, have you used this particular media before? If not, did you do a md5sum on the CD's? RH9 actually has that built into their CD's now. Boot off the CD and when given a boot: prompt, type "linux mediacheck" and it will check all your CD's for you. If it comes up bad, verify the md5sum of the ISO(s) you burned the CD's from, and then if all is well, try burning again. On Wednesday, October 1, 2003, at 12:13 PM, Tim Sinks wrote: > it might be cdrom1 and not letter or just cdrom. > My drives are labeled in rh9 as cdrom and cdrom1. also, if you have m$ > on > the disk lookat it's designation. it may not be recognizing the drive > type. > do a text install to get the drive in the system > Tim Sinks -- Justin Kremer _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rwh at visi.com Wed Oct 1 15:28:17 2003 From: rwh at visi.com (Richard Hoffbeck) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Way OT: License Plate Search In-Reply-To: <3784.192.1.1.23.1064713882.squirrel@dccmn.com> References: <20030927140912.0c3b8d07.sfertch@real-time.com> <3784.192.1.1.23.1064713882.squirrel@dccmn.com> Message-ID: <3F7B38E1.2070402@visi.com> State Farm is similar. As long as they don't pay, they don't care and even when they do pay there is a staggered ladder that defines when and how much your rates go up. I think 2 accidents or > $5K in damages gets you a 5% bump for three years or some such thing. I got hit last spring while I was waiting at a red light and there was around $1,500 in damage. I just got my renewal notice yesterday and the rates were actually $10 lower than the current six months. It even still shows the accident free discount. --rick Wayne Johnson wrote: >BTW, Allstate allows 2 incidents (moving violations or accidents) before >raising their rates. > >Adam Maloney said: > > >>>So, now, you can say that any way you look at it, you're going to have >>>to bend over and take it without Vaseline or even a grope before hand. >>> >>> >>Yes, there will be no KY and no reach-around. It's like a Tiajuana >>prison over here. >> >>We'll see what the police report gets me. >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > > > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From myok at ogzr.org Thu Oct 2 07:09:10 2003 From: myok at ogzr.org (Carl Patten) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] redhat 9: can't find redhat in cdrom In-Reply-To: <3F7B03CB.7010908@umn.edu> References: <3F7B03CB.7010908@umn.edu> Message-ID: <1065096550.2267.7.camel@herbie.doomnode.net> On Wed, 2003-10-01 at 11:41, Joe Dunsmore wrote: > So I was trying to install redhat 9, as I get partway through the > install, it asks where I'm installing from, so I say cdrom. Then it > gives me an error message saying it can't find redhat in the cdrom. > I'll note that the light on my cdrom drive does not flicker after I > click cdrom install. I found a page on redhat's website about this > problem and it said at the boot prompt to type linux hdx=cdrom. where x > is a, b, c, or d depending on what drive your cdrom is. I tried this > with the same results. Other people have ecountered this I found out > from google and a scratched cd is common, but I don't see how this could > happen if the light never flickered on. Should I try burning another > cd? any other clues? thanks. What kind of CD reader are you using? Try creating the boot floppies and start the install that way. I used that method to work around a bug with Red Hat 8's CD-ROM install where it would hang if the CD was booted on a DVD drive. -- Carl Patten _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Oct 2 07:23:30 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... In-Reply-To: <3F7AF009.2050409@ppdonline.com> References: <3F7AF009.2050409@ppdonline.com> Message-ID: <3F7C18C2.8020301@visi.com> Midnight Commander is the best on the terminal side. It's a great file system learning tool especially for visual learners like me. Sam. Ben Bargabus wrote: > I was bored and thinking that it would be interesting to hear what > some of your favorite Linux/Unix programs are. Maybe an interesting > response will inspire me to learn something new. Anyway, what are > your favorite programs, why, and what do you use them for? (if any of > you are as bored as me today maybe this will start an interesting > thread ;-) > Later, > Ben. > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From veldy at veldy.net Thu Oct 2 09:42:13 2003 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Slackware 9.1 References: <20031001135420.33b1ff92.william.layer@comcast.net> Message-ID: <018801c388f3$5e5bf0a0$d037630a@dh.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Layer" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 1:54 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Slackware 9.1 > On Wed, 1 Oct 2003 13:30:20 -0500 (CDT) > Adam Maloney wrote: > > > That's because Slackware owns your 'fro :) > > > > I actually found installing Smackware much easier than a redhat install. > > Slackware has an element of sanity and predictability that I find lacking in pretty much every other distro. Slack just simply works, and gets better with every release. > Try booting and installing a kernel other than the default (I installed the XFS version) with Slackware 9.0. It still installs the modules for the default kernel, so nothing works upon reboot (I had no networking ability or anything). I was forced to recompile the kernel from source to get it to work properly (only way I could get the proper modules). I think Slackware breaks handily when you take it off the well trodden path. Tom Veldhouse _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Thu Oct 2 10:04:11 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Slackware 9.1 In-Reply-To: <018801c388f3$5e5bf0a0$d037630a@dh.com> References: <20031001135420.33b1ff92.william.layer@comcast.net> <018801c388f3$5e5bf0a0$d037630a@dh.com> Message-ID: <20031002100411.2ae9679c.sfertch@real-time.com> On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 09:42:13 -0500 "Thomas T. Veldhouse" wrote: > Try booting and installing a kernel other than the default (I > installed the XFS version) with Slackware 9.0. It still installs the > modules for the default kernel, so nothing works upon reboot (I had no > networking ability or anything). I was forced to recompile the kernel > from source to get it to work properly (only way I could get the > proper modules). I think Slackware breaks handily when you take it > off the well trodden path. > Aside from my current issues with my dual head video card (still haven't had a chance to work on it), I've never had a problem with any of the non-default kernels on Slack in the course of my using it from versions 7.0 to 9.0. Not saying it's perfect, it just fits and suits my needs quite well with little or no problems for me. Except for those I create myself. I'm looking forward to 9.1 =) -- Shawn The difficult we do today; the impossible take a little longer. Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rudie at rudie.net Thu Oct 2 11:17:03 2003 From: rudie at rudie.net (Kevin Hinze) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Slackware 9.1 In-Reply-To: <018801c388f3$5e5bf0a0$d037630a@dh.com> References: <20031001135420.33b1ff92.william.layer@comcast.net> <018801c388f3$5e5bf0a0$d037630a@dh.com> Message-ID: <20031002111703.111bd0bb.rudie@rudie.net> On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 09:42:13 -0500 "Thomas T. Veldhouse" wrote: > Try booting and installing a kernel other than the default (I > installed the XFS version) with Slackware 9.0. It still installs the > modules for the default kernel, so nothing works upon reboot (I had no > networking ability or anything). I was forced to recompile the kernel > from source to get it to work properly (only way I could get the > proper modules). I think Slackware breaks handily when you take it > off the well trodden path. I dunno what you were doing wrong, but compiling and installing new and test kernels is how I got into slackware in the first place. I used to be an avid RedHat user, but as curiousity got the best of me, and I wanted to try new things such as compiling new kernels and whatnot, invariably I would break lots of things under DeadRat. Slackware has never given me trouble in this department, save for occasionaly not getting the correct modules for my sound card. And using test kernels from the early 2.5.x days that simply hosed everything. But I doubt that's Slackware's fault. At the risk of sounding condescending, you may want to examine your build method to verify you are building and installing the correct modules. > Tom Veldhouse -- -Kevin Hinze rudie@rudie.net | rudie@sihope.com hinz0047@tc.umn.edu | http://rudie.net Democracy: two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for lunch Liberty: a well armed sheep expressing his rights. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From JAustad at temgweb.com Thu Oct 2 10:46:32 2003 From: JAustad at temgweb.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... Message-ID: <288FAF5565A1A74EA5E35C39E7EE1D420A1BDC35@mail.temgweb.com> Haha... someone I worked with did that on bmw.com's Solaris webserver about 6 years ago. > -----Original Message----- > From: Sam MacDonald [mailto:smac@visi.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 12:29 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... > > > LOLROF :oD > Never Kill unless it's the only alternative. > > Sam. > > Ryan Ware wrote: > > > > > > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: Adam Maloney [mailto:adamm@sihope.com] > >>Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 10:37 AM > >>To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > >>Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... > >> > >> > > > > > > > >>Every once in awhile I pick up a sob story on usenet or > >>sun-managers about > >>someone who came from a Linux background and used SunOS' > >>killall, thinking > >>it did what Linux's killall does. It doesn't. Not at all. It does > >>EXACTLY what the name implies. This makes for some great > >>fodder when the > >>person ran killall on, say, a large financial firm's E10k. > >> > >> > > > > Linux NAME > > killall - kill processes by name > > > >Solaris NAME > > killall - kill all active processes > > > >Yup, significant difference. Why Linux named it that is a > good question. > >Killproc would have been better I think. > > > >_______________________________________________ > >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Wed Oct 1 15:22:26 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] October TCLUG Meeting Message-ID: <20031001202226.GB31316@fandre.com> Next TCLUG Meeting When: October 4th, 2003, noon-2pm Topic: An introduction to digital signatures, presented by Florin. Florin will talk about what is GPG with a bit of wandering in the theory of assymetrical cryptography then I will describe how to use it to generate keys, encrypt and sign files/messages and how to integrate GPG and the keyring with popular mail clients (Mutt, Evolution, Mozilla). Florin is a systems software engineer working at EDS PLM Solutions on Teamcenter Enteprise, the leading PLM (Product Lifecycle Management) software. He has been using Linux for 8 years on his home network. Where: University of Minnesota Electrical Engineering/Computer Science Building Room EE-CS 3-180 Map: http://onestop.umn.edu/Maps/EECSci/index.html _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kremer at ringworld.org Thu Oct 2 11:58:58 2003 From: kremer at ringworld.org (Justin Kremer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] October TCLUG Meeting In-Reply-To: <20031001202226.GB31316@fandre.com> Message-ID: Drat! Why can I never make it to these? Well, I did make it to one, a while back. I'd really like to see this presentation, too. Can someone take notes, post slides, or something? Thanks! On Wednesday, October 1, 2003, at 03:22 PM, Clay Fandre wrote: > Next TCLUG Meeting > > When: > October 4th, 2003, noon-2pm > > Topic: > An introduction to digital signatures, presented by Florin. -- Justin Kremer _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Oct 2 12:07:25 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cut Me Some.. Message-ID: <3F7C5B4D.9020004@visi.com> Slack I'm having an issue installing Slackware. I find a fast ftp site and down loaded bare.i color.gz and network.dsk I ran rawrite to build bare.i and network.dsk diskettes without any error. ftp://ftp.slackware.com/pub/slackware/slackware/rootdisks color.gz is about 2.2 mb but I'll have faith that this will write properly 5 diskettes later I _can't_ get one that will write. so I format a diskette (windows 98) ****************************** d:\slack\format a: Volume label (11 characters, ENTER for none)? 1,457,664 bytes total disk space 1,457,664 bytes available on disk 512 bytes in each allocation unit. 2,847 allocation units available on disk. Volume Serial Number is 1A24-11ED Format another (Y/N)?n D:\slack>rawrite RaWrite 1.3 - Write disk file to raw floppy diskette Enter source file name: color.gz Enter destination drive: a Please insert a formatted diskette into drive A: and press -ENTER- : Number of sectors per track for this disk is 18 Writing image to drive A:. Press ^C to abort. *Bad sector detected Sector: 1 or 16 or 77...* I down load another color.gz from another site. color.gz is about 2.5 mb I get the same message every time I attempt to rawrite color.gz *********************** I go back to the slackware ftp site go in to slackware 7 the color.gz is about 1.3 megabytes **************************** Down load all new from slackware 7 Same problem WTF! Now after closing the command prompt and trying again the color.gz would write what was different? doskey. AHHHHhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!! Sam. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net Thu Oct 2 12:07:00 2003 From: scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cut Me Some.. In-Reply-To: <3F7C5B4D.9020004@visi.com>; from smac@visi.com on Thu, Oct 02, 2003 at 12:07:25PM -0500 References: <3F7C5B4D.9020004@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031002120700.C15970@thinkunix.net> Sam, you need install.1 and install.2 instead of color.gz as of about slack 8.1 and up. these are 2 diskette images that make up the "rootdisk". see the [cdrom|ftpsite]/rootdisks/README.TXT for full details These are root-install disks for Slackware 9.1. If you are unable to boot the Slackware installation CD directly, you'll need create these floppy disks in order to load the installer. In the past, there's only been one rootdisk floppy called "color.gz", but now there are 2 floppy images (install.1 and install.2), and you'll need both of them. Sam MacDonald wrote: > Slack > > I'm having an issue installing Slackware. > > I find a fast ftp site and down loaded bare.i color.gz and network.dsk > I ran rawrite to build bare.i and network.dsk diskettes without any error. > ftp://ftp.slackware.com/pub/slackware/slackware/rootdisks > color.gz is about 2.2 mb but I'll have faith that this will write properly > 5 diskettes later I _can't_ get one that will write. > so I format a diskette (windows 98) > ****************************** > d:\slack\format a: > Volume label (11 characters, ENTER for none)? > 1,457,664 bytes total disk space > 1,457,664 bytes available on disk > 512 bytes in each allocation unit. > 2,847 allocation units available on disk. > Volume Serial Number is 1A24-11ED > Format another (Y/N)?n > > D:\slack>rawrite > RaWrite 1.3 - Write disk file to raw floppy diskette > Enter source file name: color.gz > Enter destination drive: a > Please insert a formatted diskette into drive A: and press -ENTER- : > Number of sectors per track for this disk is 18 > Writing image to drive A:. Press ^C to abort. > *Bad sector detected Sector: 1 or 16 or 77...* > > I down load another color.gz from another site. > color.gz is about 2.5 mb > I get the same message every time I attempt to rawrite color.gz > *********************** > I go back to the slackware ftp site > go in to slackware 7 > the color.gz is about 1.3 megabytes > **************************** > Down load all new from slackware 7 > Same problem WTF! > Now after closing the command prompt and trying again the color.gz would > write > what was different? > doskey. > > AHHHHhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!! > > Sam. > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From duns0014 at umn.edu Thu Oct 2 12:08:09 2003 From: duns0014 at umn.edu (Joe Dunsmore) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #3051 - 6 msgs In-Reply-To: <20031002170003.11431.60483.Mailman@pirate.real-time.com> References: <20031002170003.11431.60483.Mailman@pirate.real-time.com> Message-ID: <1065114085.12835.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] redhat 9: can't find redhat in cdrom > From: Carl Patten > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Organization: > Date: 02 Oct 2003 07:09:10 -0500 > Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > On Wed, 2003-10-01 at 11:41, Joe Dunsmore wrote: > > So I was trying to install redhat 9, as I get partway through the > > install, it asks where I'm installing from, so I say cdrom. Then it > > gives me an error message saying it can't find redhat in the cdrom. > > I'll note that the light on my cdrom drive does not flicker after I > > click cdrom install. I found a page on redhat's website about this > > problem and it said at the boot prompt to type linux hdx=cdrom. where x > > is a, b, c, or d depending on what drive your cdrom is. I tried this > > with the same results. Other people have ecountered this I found out > > from google and a scratched cd is common, but I don't see how this could > > happen if the light never flickered on. Should I try burning another > > cd? any other clues? thanks. > > What kind of CD reader are you using? Try creating the boot floppies > and start the install that way. I used that method to work around a bug > with Red Hat 8's CD-ROM install where it would hang if the CD was booted > on a DVD drive. turned out the md5sum was off. so i reburned and installed. i'm running redhat 9 right now. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From AIRPLANEIT at aol.com Thu Oct 2 12:28:37 2003 From: AIRPLANEIT at aol.com (AIRPLANEIT@aol.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Monster.com Radio Ad Message-ID: <43E52F1E.21CFE0E7.09BD8409@aol.com> Any of you heard that local Monster.com radio ad? You know, the Monster.com that used to specialize in IT jobs, but has now diversified? They say their job listings for the local area are at "W W W Dot Monster Dot Com BACKSLASH Twin Cities". Kinda reminds me when I stopped by my parent's house one afternoon and my dad was on the phone with tech support. They had him on the C prompt doing something. He wasn't succeeding at doing what they were saying, and was getting a little irate. I had a look at the screen and said, "Hey idiot... those are forward slashes, I bet he wants backslashes.".... "Oh." -Nick _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Oct 2 12:43:03 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cut Me Some.. In-Reply-To: <20031002120700.C15970@thinkunix.net> References: <3F7C5B4D.9020004@visi.com> <20031002120700.C15970@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <3F7C63A7.8050205@visi.com> Not to be an A$$hole but http://www.slackware.com/install/ I didn not find that at the above site, I'm using Slackware 7.0, from FDD, I don't have the CD's. And I'm going to use Debian because the documentation is straight forward and I have the 26 diskettes that I need. Sam Scot Jenkins wrote: >Sam, >you need install.1 and install.2 instead of color.gz as of about slack >8.1 and up. these are 2 diskette images that make up the "rootdisk". > >see the [cdrom|ftpsite]/rootdisks/README.TXT for full details > > >These are root-install disks for Slackware 9.1. > >If you are unable to boot the Slackware installation CD directly, you'll >need create these floppy disks in order to load the installer. In the past, >there's only been one rootdisk floppy called "color.gz", but now there are >2 floppy images (install.1 and install.2), and you'll need both of them. > > >Sam MacDonald wrote: > > >>Slack >> >>I'm having an issue installing Slackware. >> >>I find a fast ftp site and down loaded bare.i color.gz and network.dsk >>I ran rawrite to build bare.i and network.dsk diskettes without any error. >> ftp://ftp.slackware.com/pub/slackware/slackware/rootdisks >>color.gz is about 2.2 mb but I'll have faith that this will write properly >> 5 diskettes later I _can't_ get one that will write. >> so I format a diskette (windows 98) >>****************************** >>d:\slack\format a: >>Volume label (11 characters, ENTER for none)? >> 1,457,664 bytes total disk space >> 1,457,664 bytes available on disk >> 512 bytes in each allocation unit. >> 2,847 allocation units available on disk. >>Volume Serial Number is 1A24-11ED >>Format another (Y/N)?n >> >>D:\slack>rawrite >>RaWrite 1.3 - Write disk file to raw floppy diskette >>Enter source file name: color.gz >>Enter destination drive: a >>Please insert a formatted diskette into drive A: and press -ENTER- : >>Number of sectors per track for this disk is 18 >>Writing image to drive A:. Press ^C to abort. >>*Bad sector detected Sector: 1 or 16 or 77...* >> >>I down load another color.gz from another site. >> color.gz is about 2.5 mb >>I get the same message every time I attempt to rawrite color.gz >>*********************** >>I go back to the slackware ftp site >> go in to slackware 7 >> the color.gz is about 1.3 megabytes >>**************************** >>Down load all new from slackware 7 >> Same problem WTF! >>Now after closing the command prompt and trying again the color.gz would >>write >>what was different? >> doskey. >> >>AHHHHhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!! >> >>Sam. >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ben_b at ppdonline.com Thu Oct 2 12:59:35 2003 From: ben_b at ppdonline.com (Ben Bargabus) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Monster.com Radio Ad References: <43E52F1E.21CFE0E7.09BD8409@aol.com> Message-ID: <3F7C6787.7050709@ppdonline.com> That reminds me of a local tech school's TV ad (I think it was Minneapolis School of Business) where two "students" were talking about all the cool programming languages they had learned, including "C+" (that's right, just one plus) and "Visual BasicS" (maybe they meant they had learned multiple versions?). I was actually annoyed enough that I called their number to explain how stupid they appeared to anyone with an ounce of knowledge, evidently they're not interested in attracting smart students as they continued to run that ad for years (it may still air from time to time). Later, Ben. AIRPLANEIT@aol.com wrote: > Any of you heard that local Monster.com radio ad? You know, the Monster.com that used to specialize in IT jobs, but has now diversified? They say their job listings for the local area are at "W W W Dot Monster Dot Com BACKSLASH Twin Cities". Kinda reminds me when I stopped by my parent's house one afternoon and my dad was on the phone with tech support. They had him on the C prompt doing something. He wasn't succeeding at doing what they were saying, and was getting a little irate. I had a look at the screen and said, "Hey idiot... those are forward slashes, I bet he wants backslashes.".... "Oh." > > -Nick > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Thu Oct 2 13:18:37 2003 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] October TCLUG Meeting In-Reply-To: References: <20031001202226.GB31316@fandre.com> Message-ID: <20031002181837.GM1206@iucha.net> On Thu, Oct 02, 2003 at 11:58:58AM -0500, Justin Kremer wrote: > Drat! Why can I never make it to these? Well, I did make it to one, a > while back. > I'd really like to see this presentation, too. Can someone take notes, > post slides, or something? > Thanks! I'll post the slides/notes after the meeting. florin -- Don't question authority: they don't know either! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031002/b05e1bb5/attachment.pgp From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Thu Oct 2 13:28:44 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] October TCLUG Meeting Message-ID: Thank you in advance! I wish I could make it too. >>> florin@iucha.net 10/02/03 01:18PM >>> > I'd really like to see this presentation, too. Can someone take notes, > post slides, or something? I'll post the slides/notes after the meeting. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Thu Oct 2 13:40:43 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cut Me Some.. In-Reply-To: <3F7C63A7.8050205@visi.com> References: <3F7C5B4D.9020004@visi.com> <20031002120700.C15970@thinkunix.net> <3F7C63A7.8050205@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031002134043.123bf77a.sfertch@real-time.com> On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 12:43:03 -0500 Sam MacDonald wrote: > Not to be an A$$hole but > > http://www.slackware.com/install/ > > I didn not find that at the above site, I'm using Slackware 7.0, from > FDD, I don't have the CD's. > > And I'm going to use Debian because the documentation is straight > forward and I have the 26 diskettes that I need. > Sam, Out of curiosity, why are you using such an old version of Slack? It's like going back to RH 6.2 or older. The last time I did a floppy install was in 8.0 because my cd-rom is SCSI and doesn't auto boot. At that time the root and boot disks were bare.i and color.gz I think. You can do a floppy install for the basics still with the a and n series. Then you can continue on with a netowrk install. Take a look here for more information if you are still interested in Slack. http://www.slackware.com/book/ Also, look at the 4MB laptop How-to on tldp.org as it can help you out more. FWIW, I find the Slack install to be more straight forward than any other distro. But, if you want to stick with Debian, by all means do so. -- Shawn The difficult we do today; the impossible take a little longer. Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Oct 2 14:08:35 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cut Me Some.. In-Reply-To: <20031002134043.123bf77a.sfertch@real-time.com> References: <3F7C5B4D.9020004@visi.com> <20031002120700.C15970@thinkunix.net> <3F7C63A7.8050205@visi.com> <20031002134043.123bf77a.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: <3F7C77B3.1030203@visi.com> I'm already on disk 17 of the Debian install. I don't want Kernel 2.4.x I want 2.2.x, aint paranoia wonderful! Sam. Shawn wrote: >On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 12:43:03 -0500 >Sam MacDonald wrote: > > > >>Not to be an A$$hole but >> >>http://www.slackware.com/install/ >> >>I didn not find that at the above site, I'm using Slackware 7.0, from >>FDD, I don't have the CD's. >> >>And I'm going to use Debian because the documentation is straight >>forward and I have the 26 diskettes that I need. >> >> >> > >Sam, > Out of curiosity, why are you using such an old version of Slack? It's like going back to RH 6.2 or older. The last time I did a floppy install was in 8.0 because my cd-rom is SCSI and doesn't auto boot. At that time the root and boot disks were bare.i and color.gz I think. You can do a floppy install for the basics still with the a and n series. Then you can continue on with a netowrk install. > > Take a look here for more information if you are still interested in Slack. > >http://www.slackware.com/book/ > > Also, look at the 4MB laptop How-to on tldp.org as it can help you out more. > > FWIW, I find the Slack install to be more straight forward than any other distro. But, if you want to stick with Debian, by all means do so. > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Thu Oct 2 14:26:15 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cut Me Some.. In-Reply-To: <3F7C77B3.1030203@visi.com> References: <3F7C5B4D.9020004@visi.com> <20031002120700.C15970@thinkunix.net> <3F7C63A7.8050205@visi.com> <20031002134043.123bf77a.sfertch@real-time.com> <3F7C77B3.1030203@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031002142615.30c78cd7.sfertch@real-time.com> On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 14:08:35 -0500 Sam MacDonald wrote: > I'm already on disk 17 of the Debian install. > I don't want Kernel 2.4.x I want 2.2.x, aint paranoia wonderful! > Not to be picky, but any particular reason why? -- Shawn The difficult we do today; the impossible take a little longer. Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Thu Oct 2 14:27:03 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] TCLUG books Message-ID: <20031002192703.GD4467@fandre.com> Lately I have gotten a few shipments of Linux books from various publishers. I am trying to figure out how to distribute these books that would benefit the group the most. Here are a few ideas: 1. Library - Let users "check-out" books on a short-term basis. They would need to check them back in so other members could use them. 2. Give-away - Have a drawing or something and give them away to a permanent owner. 3. P2P - Give them away and encourage the books find their way to other members eventually. I would probably want some type of feedback/review no matter which way we go. Comments? Suggestions? Here is the list of books I currently have: Managing Linux Systems with Webmin - Cameron Implementing CIFS - The Common Internet File System - Hertel Moving to Linux - Gagne 2 - Practical Programming in Tcl and TK (4th Ed) - Welch/Jones Hobbs Linux Server Hacks - Flickenger Understanding the Linux Kernel - Bovet & Cesati Managing Raid on Linux - Vadala Running Linux - Welsh, Dalheimer, Dawson & Kaufman UNIX Systems Programming - Robbins Building Secure Servers with Linux - Bauer Google Hacks - Calishain & Dornfest Complete Wireless Home Networking (Windows XP Edition) - Heltzel Linux on the Mainframe - Eilert, Eisenhaendler, Maththaeus, Salm I may have some others hidden in boxes that I have yet to unpack from my move. -- Clay _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Thu Oct 2 14:43:58 2003 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (johnny fulcrum) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apache RewriteRule Message-ID: I know there's probably better forums for this but thought maybe a TCLUGer might be able to confirm for me: I have a web site that was plain old http - I'm changing it so that everything is https - so I thought a rewrite rule that would catch all requests and swap http for https: RewriteRule ^/(.*)$ https://%{SERVER_NAME}/$1 [R,L] I put in about 1/2 day of study on this and I think I hit it - anyone else ever muck with mod_rewrite? If so does this look about right? So far (from my tests) this works... _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Thu Oct 2 14:48:17 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] TCLUG books In-Reply-To: <20031002192703.GD4467@fandre.com> Message-ID: What if we all volunteer to OCR 50 pages and put them on-line? (just kidding). Give them out as "thank you's" for finding speakers, hosting/organizing installfests, etc? A TCLUG Library is a great idea. But I could see it being a problem if people have to drive across town to get to wherever the books are housed. That's where the P2P thing you mentioned might make it better - with such a large group it shouldn't be difficult to get a book from A to B with a few hops in between. But then again, there's little accountability and some books may be lost. You could ask for a receipt when you GIVE the book to someone else, so you have proof that it's not in your possession. Then if someone wants to borrow it, they can WHO-HAS on the list, and if no one steps forward you can use the receipts to track it down. Not that the group isn't trustworthy, but I would be really surprised if this didn't happen eventually. You could probably make this even easier by hacking together some sort of check-in system, but instead of checking the book into the repository, you can check it into another LUGer. The requester fills out a web form requesting a check-out token, which would be a large random number, one time use, that only he knows. He gives the number to the current possessor of the book, who pops the number into a web-form as his "receipt". Then the system always knows who is currently responsible for each book. (No one can give away a book, since they won't have a valid check-out token from someone requesting it). Probably even better ways to do this, but my brain is fried since it's near the end of the week. On Thu, 2 Oct 2003, Clay Fandre wrote: > Lately I have gotten a few shipments of Linux books from various > publishers. I am trying to figure out how to distribute these books > that would benefit the group the most. Here are a few ideas: > > 1. Library - Let users "check-out" books on a short-term basis. They > would need to check them back in so other members could use them. > 2. Give-away - Have a drawing or something and give them away to a > permanent owner. > 3. P2P - Give them away and encourage the books find their way to > other members eventually. > > I would probably want some type of feedback/review no matter which way > we go. > > Comments? Suggestions? > > > > Here is the list of books I currently have: > > Managing Linux Systems with Webmin - Cameron > > Implementing CIFS - The Common Internet File System - Hertel > > Moving to Linux - Gagne > > 2 - Practical Programming in Tcl and TK (4th Ed) - Welch/Jones Hobbs > > Linux Server Hacks - Flickenger > > Understanding the Linux Kernel - Bovet & Cesati > > Managing Raid on Linux - Vadala > > Running Linux - Welsh, Dalheimer, Dawson & Kaufman > > UNIX Systems Programming - Robbins > > Building Secure Servers with Linux - Bauer > > Google Hacks - Calishain & Dornfest > > Complete Wireless Home Networking (Windows XP Edition) - Heltzel > > Linux on the Mainframe - Eilert, Eisenhaendler, Maththaeus, Salm > > I may have some others hidden in boxes that I have yet to unpack from > my move. > > -- Clay > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > Adam Maloney Systems Administrator Sihope Communications _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Thu Oct 2 14:54:12 2003 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] TCLUG books In-Reply-To: References: <20031002192703.GD4467@fandre.com> Message-ID: <20031002195412.GN1206@iucha.net> On Thu, Oct 02, 2003 at 02:48:17PM -0500, Adam Maloney wrote: > Give them out as "thank you's" for finding speakers, hosting/organizing > installfests, etc? That's a great idea! You have both my votes! florin -- Don't question authority: they don't know either! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031002/22e96559/attachment.pgp From smac at visi.com Thu Oct 2 15:17:10 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cut Me Some.. In-Reply-To: <20031002142615.30c78cd7.sfertch@real-time.com> References: <3F7C5B4D.9020004@visi.com> <20031002120700.C15970@thinkunix.net> <3F7C63A7.8050205@visi.com> <20031002134043.123bf77a.sfertch@real-time.com> <3F7C77B3.1030203@visi.com> <20031002142615.30c78cd7.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: <3F7C87C6.5020708@visi.com> My lack of patience with things that lack exact documentation on the web site. That and I don't have time to down load all the files and disks. Sam. Shawn wrote: >On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 14:08:35 -0500 >Sam MacDonald wrote: > > > >>I'm already on disk 17 of the Debian install. >>I don't want Kernel 2.4.x I want 2.2.x, aint paranoia wonderful! >> >> >> > >Not to be picky, but any particular reason why? > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From william.layer at comcast.net Thu Oct 2 14:21:42 2003 From: william.layer at comcast.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cut Me Some.. In-Reply-To: <3F7C63A7.8050205@visi.com> References: <3F7C5B4D.9020004@visi.com> <20031002120700.C15970@thinkunix.net> <3F7C63A7.8050205@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031002142142.3e759ce8.william.layer@comcast.net> On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 12:43:03 -0500 Sam MacDonald wrote: > Not to be an A$$hole but > > http://www.slackware.com/install/ > > I didn not find that at the above site, I'm using Slackware 7.0, from > FDD, I don't have the CD's. Sam, From sfertch at real-time.com Thu Oct 2 15:50:12 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cut Me Some.. In-Reply-To: <3F7C87C6.5020708@visi.com> References: <3F7C5B4D.9020004@visi.com> <20031002120700.C15970@thinkunix.net> <3F7C63A7.8050205@visi.com> <20031002134043.123bf77a.sfertch@real-time.com> <3F7C77B3.1030203@visi.com> <20031002142615.30c78cd7.sfertch@real-time.com> <3F7C87C6.5020708@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031002155012.3cb5557c.sfertch@real-time.com> On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 15:17:10 -0500 Sam MacDonald wrote: > My lack of patience with things that lack exact documentation on the > web site. > That and I don't have time to down load all the files and disks. > Actually, I was asking about the kernel why stay with 2.2.x instead of going higher. As to lack of exact documentation, you'll run into that more often than not. At least that's been my experience. Not to sound harsh, but to have everything laid out for you in exact documentation makes for laziness, poor admins, and what you're complaining about that IBM GS is doing. "Any monkey can do it, so they can do it from afar." Documentation will never take the place of knowledge, experience, and a desire to learn. It is, however, a great support aid tool for those things which I just listed. This, is of course, all IMO. -- Shawn The difficult we do today; the impossible take a little longer. Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rware at interplastic.com Thu Oct 2 15:57:15 2003 From: rware at interplastic.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cut Me Some.. Message-ID: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B176@ipserver2.interplastic.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Shawn [mailto:sfertch@real-time.com] > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 3:50 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Cut Me Some.. > > > On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 15:17:10 -0500 > Sam MacDonald wrote: > > > My lack of patience with things that lack exact documentation on the > > web site. > > That and I don't have time to down load all the files and disks. > > > > Actually, I was asking about the kernel why stay with 2.2.x > instead of going higher. > > As to lack of exact documentation, you'll run into that more > often than not. At least that's been my experience. > > Not to sound harsh, but to have everything laid out for you > in exact documentation makes for laziness, poor admins, and > what you're complaining about that IBM GS is doing. "Any > monkey can do it, so they can do it from afar." > Documentation will never take the place of knowledge, > experience, and a desire to learn. It is, however, a great > support aid tool for those things which I just listed. This, > is of course, all IMO. > > > > -- > Shawn I agree with Sam on liking decent documentation. Lacking that somethings feel too much like a do it yourself kit with pieces missing. Part of Linux's lack of documentation right now is just the speed at which it is evolving. Your more stable Unix's that are now being polished for the most part have much more complete documentation it seems to me. I think Linux will get better documentation in the future also. Of course this too is just my opinion. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Oct 2 16:08:16 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] TCLUG books In-Reply-To: <20031002192703.GD4467@fandre.com> References: <20031002192703.GD4467@fandre.com> Message-ID: <3F7C93C0.2030901@visi.com> How about asking our friends over at TCPhP to write a library application. For checking the books out and in. With a way to contact the previous barrow that someone would like the book. The application could be run on the mn-linux site. I might be persuaded to give up some space on my latest debian box (by, by Redhat) Check the books our for 1, 2, or 3 beer meetings. Pick the books up and drop them off at beer meetings. ;-) I'm not sure who would be the librarian as that job would take some commitment (I'm booked with Scouting and going camping this weekend BTW) [pun intended] on the librarians part. But that work could be made up by buying the Librarian a beer when you check out a book! Sam. Clay Fandre wrote: >Lately I have gotten a few shipments of Linux books from various >publishers. I am trying to figure out how to distribute these books >that would benefit the group the most. Here are a few ideas: > >1. Library - Let users "check-out" books on a short-term basis. They >would need to check them back in so other members could use them. >2. Give-away - Have a drawing or something and give them away to a >permanent owner. >3. P2P - Give them away and encourage the books find their way to >other members eventually. > >I would probably want some type of feedback/review no matter which way >we go. > >Comments? Suggestions? > > > >Here is the list of books I currently have: > >Managing Linux Systems with Webmin - Cameron > >Implementing CIFS - The Common Internet File System - Hertel > >Moving to Linux - Gagne > >2 - Practical Programming in Tcl and TK (4th Ed) - Welch/Jones Hobbs > >Linux Server Hacks - Flickenger > >Understanding the Linux Kernel - Bovet & Cesati > >Managing Raid on Linux - Vadala > >Running Linux - Welsh, Dalheimer, Dawson & Kaufman > >UNIX Systems Programming - Robbins > >Building Secure Servers with Linux - Bauer > >Google Hacks - Calishain & Dornfest > >Complete Wireless Home Networking (Windows XP Edition) - Heltzel > >Linux on the Mainframe - Eilert, Eisenhaendler, Maththaeus, Salm > >I may have some others hidden in boxes that I have yet to unpack from >my move. > >-- Clay > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Oct 2 16:13:44 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cut Me Some.. In-Reply-To: <20031002155012.3cb5557c.sfertch@real-time.com> References: <3F7C5B4D.9020004@visi.com> <20031002120700.C15970@thinkunix.net> <3F7C63A7.8050205@visi.com> <20031002134043.123bf77a.sfertch@real-time.com> <3F7C77B3.1030203@visi.com> <20031002142615.30c78cd7.sfertch@real-time.com> <3F7C87C6.5020708@visi.com> <20031002155012.3cb5557c.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: <3F7C9508.3020709@visi.com> The first thing IBM GS does when an outsourcing takes place is document every process and procedure completely. This lets them move the work anywhere on the planet, the skill set to do the job only needs to minimal, because the process and procedures are in place. Sam. Shawn wrote: >On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 15:17:10 -0500 >Sam MacDonald wrote: > > > >>My lack of patience with things that lack exact documentation on the >>web site. >>That and I don't have time to down load all the files and disks. >> >> >> > >Actually, I was asking about the kernel why stay with 2.2.x instead of going higher. > >As to lack of exact documentation, you'll run into that more often than not. At least that's been my experience. > >Not to sound harsh, but to have everything laid out for you in exact documentation makes for laziness, poor admins, and what you're complaining about that IBM GS is doing. "Any monkey can do it, so they can do it from afar." Documentation will never take the place of knowledge, experience, and a desire to learn. It is, however, a great support aid tool for those things which I just listed. This, is of course, all IMO. > > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Thu Oct 2 16:09:37 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cut Me Some.. In-Reply-To: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B176@ipserver2.interplastic.com> References: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B176@ipserver2.interplastic.com> Message-ID: <20031002160937.626f8511.sfertch@real-time.com> On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 15:57:15 -0500 Ryan Ware wrote: > I agree with Sam on liking decent documentation. Lacking that > somethings feel too much like a do it yourself kit with pieces > missing. Part of Linux's lack of documentation right now is just the > speed at which it is evolving. Your more stable Unix's that are now > being polished for the most part have much more complete documentation > it seems to me. I think Linux will get better documentation in the > future also. Of course this too is just my opinion. > Don't get me wrong, I'm not against decent documentation. But, to have every single step laid out, of any and all possible causes/issues/problems/etc gets overly burdensome at times. There are particular instances where things are taken for granted that the person knows specific steps or procedures to get to a point of what they are trying to accomplish. There's a point where documentation is good and beneficial, and there's a point where it's cumbersome and detrimental. Where that point is, depends upon each person. So, in a sense they have to write it to a particular low level of understanding. I'm still learning a lot, but IMO, to have every single step laid out and written for me takes away part of the enjoyment of getting things to work. It can be boring cookie cutter work, and can lead to the thought of "Why do I need to learn this, it's documented for me. If anything goes wrong, I'll just reference the book. Or call XXX vendor for support on all issues." -- Shawn The difficult we do today; the impossible take a little longer. Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Thu Oct 2 16:12:10 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cut Me Some.. In-Reply-To: <3F7C9508.3020709@visi.com> References: <3F7C5B4D.9020004@visi.com> <20031002120700.C15970@thinkunix.net> <3F7C63A7.8050205@visi.com> <20031002134043.123bf77a.sfertch@real-time.com> <3F7C77B3.1030203@visi.com> <20031002142615.30c78cd7.sfertch@real-time.com> <3F7C87C6.5020708@visi.com> <20031002155012.3cb5557c.sfertch@real-time.com> <3F7C9508.3020709@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031002211210.GF4467@fandre.com> On Thu, 02 Oct 2003, Sam MacDonald wrote: > The first thing IBM GS does when an outsourcing takes place is document > every process and procedure completely. This lets them move the work > anywhere on the planet, the skill set to do the job only needs to > minimal, because the process and procedures are in place. > Note to self: Don't document anything! _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hpenner at cbca.com Thu Oct 2 16:17:01 2003 From: hpenner at cbca.com (Harry Penner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] TCLUG books In-Reply-To: <3F7C93C0.2030901@visi.com> References: <20031002192703.GD4467@fandre.com> <3F7C93C0.2030901@visi.com> Message-ID: <1065129421.10424.155.camel@quack> MediaMate ( apt-get install mediamate, or http://mediamate.rocks.cc/ ) is a PHP app that does this kinda well, but it has to be modified to handle multiple owners... -hp3 On Thu, 2003-10-02 at 16:08, Sam MacDonald wrote: > How about asking our friends over at TCPhP to write a library > application. For checking the books out and in. With a way to contact > the previous barrow that someone would like the book. The application > could be run on the mn-linux site. I might be persuaded to give up some > space on my latest debian box (by, by Redhat) > Check the books our for 1, 2, or 3 beer meetings. Pick the books up and > drop them off at beer meetings. ;-) > > I'm not sure who would be the librarian as that job would take some > commitment (I'm booked with Scouting and going camping this weekend BTW) > [pun intended] on the librarians part. But that work could be made up > by buying the Librarian a beer when you check out a book! > > Sam. > > > Clay Fandre wrote: > > >Lately I have gotten a few shipments of Linux books from various > >publishers. I am trying to figure out how to distribute these books > >that would benefit the group the most. Here are a few ideas: > > > >1. Library - Let users "check-out" books on a short-term basis. They > >would need to check them back in so other members could use them. > >2. Give-away - Have a drawing or something and give them away to a > >permanent owner. > >3. P2P - Give them away and encourage the books find their way to > >other members eventually. > > > >I would probably want some type of feedback/review no matter which way > >we go. > > > >Comments? Suggestions? > > > > > > > >Here is the list of books I currently have: > > > >Managing Linux Systems with Webmin - Cameron > > > >Implementing CIFS - The Common Internet File System - Hertel > > > >Moving to Linux - Gagne > > > >2 - Practical Programming in Tcl and TK (4th Ed) - Welch/Jones Hobbs > > > >Linux Server Hacks - Flickenger > > > >Understanding the Linux Kernel - Bovet & Cesati > > > >Managing Raid on Linux - Vadala > > > >Running Linux - Welsh, Dalheimer, Dawson & Kaufman > > > >UNIX Systems Programming - Robbins > > > >Building Secure Servers with Linux - Bauer > > > >Google Hacks - Calishain & Dornfest > > > >Complete Wireless Home Networking (Windows XP Edition) - Heltzel > > > >Linux on the Mainframe - Eilert, Eisenhaendler, Maththaeus, Salm > > > >I may have some others hidden in boxes that I have yet to unpack from > >my move. > > > >-- Clay > > > >_______________________________________________ > >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nate at refried.org Thu Oct 2 16:24:08 2003 From: nate at refried.org (nate@refried.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] TCLUG books In-Reply-To: <3F7C93C0.2030901@visi.com> References: <20031002192703.GD4467@fandre.com> <3F7C93C0.2030901@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031002212408.GA31915@refried.org> On Thu, Oct 02, 2003 at 04:08:16PM -0500, Sam MacDonald wrote: > How about asking our friends over at TCPhP to write a library > application. For checking the books out and in. With a way to contact > the previous barrow that someone would like the book. Good idea, but overkill on the implementation. Just create a tclug-books mailing list with archives. Just post when you have a book that you are willing to share. People can search the archives to see who has a book they want. 1. It doesn't take much effort to set up. 2. It teaches people to use the list archives. 3. It will encourage someone to add a search engine to the list archives. Nate _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Oct 2 16:31:15 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] TCLUG booksQ In-Reply-To: <3F7C93C0.2030901@visi.com> References: <20031002192703.GD4467@fandre.com> <3F7C93C0.2030901@visi.com> Message-ID: <3F7C9923.7020709@visi.com> I have some books (possibly old) that I would be willing to loan to people as well. Systems Books _Publisher Book_ Sams UNIX unleashed Sams Sybase SQL Server 11 DBA Survival Guide IDG Linux Network Toolkit Language Books _Publisher Book_ Oreilly JavaScript The definitive Guide Oreilly Learning Perl on Win32 Systems Course VB 6 Advanced Topics Sams PHP and MySQL Web Development (but not for a while) I would add all the Windows books to the list but I can't see them from where I'm sitting. Sam Sam MacDonald wrote: > How about asking our friends over at TCPhP to write a library > application. For checking the books out and in. With a way to > contact the previous barrow that someone would like the book. The > application could be run on the mn-linux site. I might be persuaded to > give up some space on my latest debian box (by, by Redhat) > Check the books our for 1, 2, or 3 beer meetings. Pick the books up > and drop them off at beer meetings. ;-) > > I'm not sure who would be the librarian as that job would take some > commitment (I'm booked with Scouting and going camping this weekend > BTW) [pun intended] on the librarians part. But that work could be > made up by buying the Librarian a beer when you check out a book! > > Sam. > > > Clay Fandre wrote: > >> Lately I have gotten a few shipments of Linux books from various >> publishers. I am trying to figure out how to distribute these books >> that would benefit the group the most. Here are a few ideas: >> >> 1. Library - Let users "check-out" books on a short-term basis. They >> would need to check them back in so other members could use them. >> 2. Give-away - Have a drawing or something and give them away to a >> permanent owner. >> 3. P2P - Give them away and encourage the books find their way to >> other members eventually. >> >> I would probably want some type of feedback/review no matter which way >> we go. >> >> Comments? Suggestions? >> >> >> >> Here is the list of books I currently have: >> >> Managing Linux Systems with Webmin - Cameron >> >> Implementing CIFS - The Common Internet File System - Hertel >> >> Moving to Linux - Gagne >> >> 2 - Practical Programming in Tcl and TK (4th Ed) - Welch/Jones Hobbs >> >> Linux Server Hacks - Flickenger >> >> Understanding the Linux Kernel - Bovet & Cesati >> >> Managing Raid on Linux - Vadala >> >> Running Linux - Welsh, Dalheimer, Dawson & Kaufman >> >> UNIX Systems Programming - Robbins >> >> Building Secure Servers with Linux - Bauer >> >> Google Hacks - Calishain & Dornfest >> >> Complete Wireless Home Networking (Windows XP Edition) - Heltzel >> >> Linux on the Mainframe - Eilert, Eisenhaendler, Maththaeus, Salm >> >> I may have some others hidden in boxes that I have yet to unpack from >> my move. >> >> -- Clay >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Oct 2 16:33:19 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cut Me Some.. In-Reply-To: <20031002211210.GF4467@fandre.com> References: <3F7C5B4D.9020004@visi.com> <20031002120700.C15970@thinkunix.net> <3F7C63A7.8050205@visi.com> <20031002134043.123bf77a.sfertch@real-time.com> <3F7C77B3.1030203@visi.com> <20031002142615.30c78cd7.sfertch@real-time.com> <3F7C87C6.5020708@visi.com> <20031002155012.3cb5557c.sfertch@real-time.com> <3F7C9508.3020709@visi.com> <20031002211210.GF4467@fandre.com> Message-ID: <3F7C999F.7030702@visi.com> Yes well they have you start from scratch when they take over. Sam. Clay Fandre wrote: >On Thu, 02 Oct 2003, Sam MacDonald wrote: > > > >>The first thing IBM GS does when an outsourcing takes place is document >>every process and procedure completely. This lets them move the work >>anywhere on the planet, the skill set to do the job only needs to >>minimal, because the process and procedures are in place. >> >> >> > >Note to self: Don't document anything! > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Oct 2 16:32:31 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] TCLUG books In-Reply-To: <1065129421.10424.155.camel@quack> References: <20031002192703.GD4467@fandre.com> <3F7C93C0.2030901@visi.com> <1065129421.10424.155.camel@quack> Message-ID: <3F7C996F.9050208@visi.com> I bet that could be used for MOVIES as well.... Sam. Harry Penner wrote: >MediaMate ( apt-get install mediamate, or http://mediamate.rocks.cc/ ) >is a PHP app that does this kinda well, but it has to be modified to >handle multiple owners... > >-hp3 >On Thu, 2003-10-02 at 16:08, Sam MacDonald wrote: > > >>How about asking our friends over at TCPhP to write a library >>application. For checking the books out and in. With a way to contact >>the previous barrow that someone would like the book. The application >>could be run on the mn-linux site. I might be persuaded to give up some >>space on my latest debian box (by, by Redhat) >>Check the books our for 1, 2, or 3 beer meetings. Pick the books up and >>drop them off at beer meetings. ;-) >> >>I'm not sure who would be the librarian as that job would take some >>commitment (I'm booked with Scouting and going camping this weekend BTW) >>[pun intended] on the librarians part. But that work could be made up >>by buying the Librarian a beer when you check out a book! >> >>Sam. >> >> >>Clay Fandre wrote: >> >> >> >>>Lately I have gotten a few shipments of Linux books from various >>>publishers. I am trying to figure out how to distribute these books >>>that would benefit the group the most. Here are a few ideas: >>> >>>1. Library - Let users "check-out" books on a short-term basis. They >>>would need to check them back in so other members could use them. >>>2. Give-away - Have a drawing or something and give them away to a >>>permanent owner. >>>3. P2P - Give them away and encourage the books find their way to >>>other members eventually. >>> >>>I would probably want some type of feedback/review no matter which way >>>we go. >>> >>>Comments? Suggestions? >>> >>> >>> >>>Here is the list of books I currently have: >>> >>>Managing Linux Systems with Webmin - Cameron >>> >>>Implementing CIFS - The Common Internet File System - Hertel >>> >>>Moving to Linux - Gagne >>> >>>2 - Practical Programming in Tcl and TK (4th Ed) - Welch/Jones Hobbs >>> >>>Linux Server Hacks - Flickenger >>> >>>Understanding the Linux Kernel - Bovet & Cesati >>> >>>Managing Raid on Linux - Vadala >>> >>>Running Linux - Welsh, Dalheimer, Dawson & Kaufman >>> >>>UNIX Systems Programming - Robbins >>> >>>Building Secure Servers with Linux - Bauer >>> >>>Google Hacks - Calishain & Dornfest >>> >>>Complete Wireless Home Networking (Windows XP Edition) - Heltzel >>> >>>Linux on the Mainframe - Eilert, Eisenhaendler, Maththaeus, Salm >>> >>>I may have some others hidden in boxes that I have yet to unpack from >>>my move. >>> >>>-- Clay >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jima at beer.tclug.org Thu Oct 2 17:31:01 2003 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Beer Meeting tomorrow! Message-ID: No reminder this week; the announcement's late enough. ;) --- snip --- A TCLUG beer meeting is a bi-weekly get-together where TCLUG members can get to know one another and share a beer. The beer meetings are open to anyone and everyone, so don't be afraid to show up. When: Friday, October 3, 2003 6pm - 8pm Where: Barley John's Brewpub 781 Old Highway Eight New Brighton MN 55112 Phone: (651)636-4670 Details: Everyone loves this place. The food is good, the beer is good, the atmosphere is good, and of course the company is good. Come see for yourself! Come share a beer or pop with fellow geeks. As always, everyone is welcome! Bring a friend, spouse, or co-worker. --- snip --- See you there! Jima _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jima at beer.tclug.org Thu Oct 2 17:31:01 2003 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] Beer Meeting tomorrow! Message-ID: No reminder this week; the announcement's late enough. ;) --- snip --- A TCLUG beer meeting is a bi-weekly get-together where TCLUG members can get to know one another and share a beer. The beer meetings are open to anyone and everyone, so don't be afraid to show up. When: Friday, October 3, 2003 6pm - 8pm Where: Barley John's Brewpub 781 Old Highway Eight New Brighton MN 55112 Phone: (651)636-4670 Details: Everyone loves this place. The food is good, the beer is good, the atmosphere is good, and of course the company is good. Come see for yourself! Come share a beer or pop with fellow geeks. As always, everyone is welcome! Bring a friend, spouse, or co-worker. --- snip --- See you there! Jima _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Announcements - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-announce mailing list tclug-announce@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From deschiff at winternet.com Thu Oct 2 15:46:50 2003 From: deschiff at winternet.com (David Schiff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] distro server Message-ID: <1065127609.1026.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> I Have an old Gateway 2000 server (full tower) that I could bring to the Oct 4th LUG meeting on sat. CPU is Pentium r 200MHz Two Hard Drives 4.8GB & 30GB (ATA) One 3Com 3c905 100BaseTX(Boomerang) ethernet card Adataptec AHA-2940U/UW/D/AIC-7881U controller Internal Seagate tape drive Generic S3 VIRGE video card. I know it's alittle on the slow and on the clunky side but it's got plenty of room. If it will help the LUG I'll be glad to bring it. I read the list and find I'm learning some good stuff from you guys. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From deschiff at winternet.com Thu Oct 2 16:01:14 2003 From: deschiff at winternet.com (David Schiff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] TCLUG Books Message-ID: <1065128474.1026.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> Yet another idea would be to donate to the Public Library. The Linux books there are unfortunately quite dated. With more current books on the shelves maybe you could encourage and support a new batch of newbies! _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Thu Oct 2 18:51:58 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Recommendation for media player Message-ID: <20031002235158.GA1100@fandre.com> I'm planning on building a mp3/ogg player out of an old P-233 I have laying around for my garage. I still haven't decided if I'm going to use a VGA monitor or just a Wyse terminal. Any recommendations on software to run? Searching freshmeat turned up quite a few apps/distros that do this. It would be really nice if it were a bootable CD, like Movix. I haven't tried it yet, but it looks pretty cool. http://movix.sourceforge.net/ But before I started playing around with all the options I thought I'd get some ideas first. -- Clay _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Thu Oct 2 19:35:42 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] distro server In-Reply-To: <1065127609.1026.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1065127609.1026.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <3F7CC45E.1010000@eworld3.net> Perfect! I'm planning on taking the bus to the meeting but I'll find a way to get it home. I'll throw the CD-RW I have into it and with a little Dew and a few hours we should have a distro server. David Schiff wrote: > I Have an old Gateway 2000 server (full tower) that I could bring to the > Oct 4th LUG meeting on sat. > CPU is Pentium r 200MHz > Two Hard Drives 4.8GB & 30GB (ATA) > One 3Com 3c905 100BaseTX(Boomerang) ethernet card > Adataptec AHA-2940U/UW/D/AIC-7881U controller > Internal Seagate tape drive > Generic S3 VIRGE video card. > I know it's alittle on the slow and on the clunky side but it's got > plenty of room. If it will help the LUG I'll be glad to bring it. > I read the list and find I'm learning some good stuff from you guys. > -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff rick@eworld3.net 952-929-1659 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From loren at lorenburlingame.com Thu Oct 2 20:14:47 2003 From: loren at lorenburlingame.com (Loren H. Burlingame) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Slackware 9.1 In-Reply-To: <018801c388f3$5e5bf0a0$d037630a@dh.com> References: <20031001135420.33b1ff92.william.layer@comcast.net> <018801c388f3$5e5bf0a0$d037630a@dh.com> Message-ID: <3F7CCD87.1090205@lorenburlingame.com> Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote: > Try booting and installing a kernel other than the default (I installed the > XFS version) with Slackware 9.0. It still installs the modules for the > default kernel, so nothing works upon reboot (I had no networking ability or > anything). I was forced to recompile the kernel from source to get it to > work properly (only way I could get the proper modules). I think Slackware > breaks handily when you take it off the well trodden path. > > I have run into the same issues, however, all you have to do is pay attention during the install and select the correct module package to go with the non-default kernel package you selected. unlike redhat and others there is no automagic dependancy checking in the install process. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From loren at lorenburlingame.com Thu Oct 2 20:29:10 2003 From: loren at lorenburlingame.com (Loren H. Burlingame) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] TCLUG books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F7CD0E6.9080408@lorenburlingame.com> Adam Maloney wrote: > > A TCLUG Library is a great idea. But I could see it being a problem if > people have to drive across town to get to wherever the books are housed. > That's where the P2P thing you mentioned might make it better - with such > a large group it shouldn't be difficult to get a book from A to B with a > few hops in between. But then again, there's little accountability and > some books may be lost. > I tend to agree with the P2P aspect. It has worked for me somewhat. I recieved my learning perl book (o'reily) from a guy I used to work with and recently gave it to a guy I go to school with. I told him when he was done with it, pass it along to someone else. Talk about a great system. LB _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From loren at lorenburlingame.com Thu Oct 2 20:33:07 2003 From: loren at lorenburlingame.com (Loren H. Burlingame) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Recommendation for media player In-Reply-To: <20031002235158.GA1100@fandre.com> References: <20031002235158.GA1100@fandre.com> Message-ID: <3F7CD1D3.3050409@lorenburlingame.com> Clay Fandre wrote: > I'm planning on building a mp3/ogg player out of an old P-233 I have > laying around for my garage. I still haven't decided if I'm going to > use a VGA monitor or just a Wyse terminal. Any recommendations on > software to run? Searching freshmeat turned up quite a few > apps/distros that do this. > mp3blaster has always been my preferred choice in terminal mode. LB _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net Thu Oct 2 20:38:13 2003 From: scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Recommendation for media player In-Reply-To: <3F7CD1D3.3050409@lorenburlingame.com>; from loren@lorenburlingame.com on Thu, Oct 02, 2003 at 08:33:07PM -0500 References: <20031002235158.GA1100@fandre.com> <3F7CD1D3.3050409@lorenburlingame.com> Message-ID: <20031002203813.A4126@thinkunix.net> I'll too recommend mp3blaster. It's a nice curses interface and works well even on an old P75 with a good SB soundcard. Loren H. Burlingame wrote: > Clay Fandre wrote: > > > I'm planning on building a mp3/ogg player out of an old P-233 I have > > laying around for my garage. I still haven't decided if I'm going to > > use a VGA monitor or just a Wyse terminal. Any recommendations on > > software to run? Searching freshmeat turned up quite a few > > apps/distros that do this. > > > > mp3blaster has always been my preferred choice in terminal mode. -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net Thu Oct 2 22:22:57 2003 From: scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] distro server In-Reply-To: <1065127609.1026.28.camel@localhost.localdomain>; from deschiff@winternet.com on Thu, Oct 02, 2003 at 03:46:50PM -0500 References: <1065127609.1026.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20031002222257.B23389@thinkunix.net> that box looks perfect! You can probably remove the tape drive and SCSI card. I doubt we'll need them during an installfest. - How much RAM does the box have? I would recommend 64MB as a minimum more is better. - add the CDRW drive that Rick mentioned - add a 2nd NIC and set the box up for NAT - install a dhcp server - install a caching dns server setup following services for installs; for ease of use, I would not require passwords or get too restrictive when setting these up: - ftp - http (apache) - NFS - samba partitioning: 4.8 GB disk (root/boot disk): make one swap 2-3 x RAM and rest for / 30 GB all one journalled partition; put all the isos here David Schiff wrote: > I Have an old Gateway 2000 server (full tower) that I could bring to the > Oct 4th LUG meeting on sat. > CPU is Pentium r 200MHz > Two Hard Drives 4.8GB & 30GB (ATA) > One 3Com 3c905 100BaseTX(Boomerang) ethernet card > Adataptec AHA-2940U/UW/D/AIC-7881U controller > Internal Seagate tape drive > Generic S3 VIRGE video card. > I know it's alittle on the slow and on the clunky side but it's got > plenty of room. If it will help the LUG I'll be glad to bring it. > I read the list and find I'm learning some good stuff from you guys. -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Thu Oct 2 22:34:26 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... In-Reply-To: <3F7AF009.2050409@ppdonline.com> References: <3F7AF009.2050409@ppdonline.com> Message-ID: <1065152065.3849.29.camel@bigtime> On Wed, 2003-10-01 at 10:17, Ben Bargabus wrote: > I was bored and thinking that it would be interesting to hear what some > of your favorite Linux/Unix programs are. Maybe an interesting response > will inspire me to learn something new. Anyway, what are your favorite > programs, why, and what do you use them for? (if any of you are as > bored as me today maybe this will start an interesting thread ;-) MythTV is making me happy lately. (http://www.mythtv.org/) Its an impressive piece of work. Particularly in its abilities to operate in a distributed fashion. Any number of machines with any number of TV cards can be used transparently by any front end over a network. I have a TV card in my SO's machine, she works evenings and would otherwise miss most anything worth watching. Also means her machine is unused while its recording. Recordings can then be watched on any machine on the network. xmltv, however, is a perl dependency nightmare. And the atrpms repository, who packages mythtv and everything it needs for Red Hat, is pure evil. All packages depend on the 'atrpm' package, which contains apt-get, forcing you to use THEIR apt-get package. And all the spec files seem to use special macros, which I assume are in their replacement RPM package, so I can't even just easily rebuild all the packages to not depend on it. I just want mythtv, I don't want to replace my apt-get and RPM and sell my soul to atrpms. I gotta make up a null 'atrpm' package. Then start my OWN repository. With blackjack. And hookers... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031002/3eb0cf91/attachment.pgp From seg at haxxed.com Thu Oct 2 22:46:44 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] distro server: hardware In-Reply-To: <20030929235039.237a7f93.william.layer@comcast.net> References: <3F777D39.8000506@eworld3.net> <1064894369.27533.2011.camel@3po> <20030929235039.237a7f93.william.layer@comcast.net> Message-ID: <1065152804.3849.42.camel@bigtime> > Why not just take this idea one step further, and instead of contructing a box to maintain, why not just have some willing member maintain the distro server on a USB 2.0 or firewire external IDE drive? Or even better, you could invest in a $50 spindle of CDRs, and burn a set or two of current install disks and bring those! You could even split it out in a distributed fashion, find a bigot or two for each distribution and have them maintain a set of install disks for their favorite distribution. Which they're probably doing anyway. (note: may contain sarcasm, the obvious, 'uninteresting' solutions, caffeine, yellow dye #6, artificial flavoring) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031002/046e8b69/attachment.pgp From seg at haxxed.com Thu Oct 2 22:49:03 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] TCLUG books In-Reply-To: <20031002212408.GA31915@refried.org> References: <20031002192703.GD4467@fandre.com> <3F7C93C0.2030901@visi.com> <20031002212408.GA31915@refried.org> Message-ID: <1065152942.3849.45.camel@bigtime> > Good idea, but overkill on the implementation. Just create a > tclug-books mailing list with archives. Just post when you have a book > that you are willing to share. People can search the archives to see > who has a book they want. Or just use our existing For Sale site thingy and create a Book Swap section in it. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031002/ef10faac/attachment.pgp From deschiff at winternet.com Fri Oct 3 02:39:10 2003 From: deschiff at winternet.com (David Schiff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] distro server Message-ID: <1065166750.1111.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> It's got 128 MB of ram and has RedHat 9 installed on the small HD. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From veldy at veldy.net Fri Oct 3 09:09:34 2003 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Slackware 9.1 References: <20031001135420.33b1ff92.william.layer@comcast.net><018801c388f3$5e5bf0a0$d037630a@dh.com> <20031002111703.111bd0bb.rudie@rudie.net> Message-ID: <01b801c389b7$f9539210$d037630a@dh.com> From: "Kevin Hinze" > I dunno what you were doing wrong, but compiling and installing new and > test kernels is how I got into slackware in the first place. I used to > be an avid RedHat user, but as curiousity got the best of me, and I > wanted to try new things such as compiling new kernels and whatnot, > invariably I would break lots of things under DeadRat. Slackware has > never given me trouble in this department, save for occasionaly not > getting the correct modules for my sound card. And using test kernels > from the early 2.5.x days that simply hosed everything. But I doubt > that's Slackware's fault. > > At the risk of sounding condescending, you may want to examine your > build method to verify you are building and installing the correct > modules. > I don't think you read my mail correctly. I said that the alternate kernels during install failed because the incorrect modules were installed. The only way I could get the proper modules was to rebuild the kernel from source myself. Tom Veldhouse _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blutgens at us-admins.com Fri Oct 3 09:18:56 2003 From: blutgens at us-admins.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cut Me Some.. In-Reply-To: <3F7C63A7.8050205@visi.com> Message-ID: <85E619AC-F5AC-11D7-9B03-000A9581A7A6@us-admins.com> On Thursday, Oct 2, 2003, at 12:43 US/Central, Sam MacDonald wrote: > Not to be an A$$hole but > > http://www.slackware.com/install/ > > I didn not find that at the above site, I'm using Slackware 7.0, from > FDD, I don't have the CD's. > > And I'm going to use Debian because the documentation is straight > forward and I have the 26 diskettes that I need. > diskettes! WTF! :-) Just kidding of course ;-) BTW your first error looks like bad media to me, not a bad disk image. > Sam > > Scot Jenkins wrote: > >> Sam, >> you need install.1 and install.2 instead of color.gz as of about slack >> 8.1 and up. these are 2 diskette images that make up the "rootdisk". >> >> see the [cdrom|ftpsite]/rootdisks/README.TXT for full details >> >> >> These are root-install disks for Slackware 9.1. >> >> If you are unable to boot the Slackware installation CD directly, >> you'll >> need create these floppy disks in order to load the installer. In >> the past, >> there's only been one rootdisk floppy called "color.gz", but now >> there are >> 2 floppy images (install.1 and install.2), and you'll need both of >> them. >> >> >> Sam MacDonald wrote: >> >>> Slack >>> >>> I'm having an issue installing Slackware. >>> >>> I find a fast ftp site and down loaded bare.i color.gz and >>> network.dsk >>> I ran rawrite to build bare.i and network.dsk diskettes without any >>> error. >>> ftp://ftp.slackware.com/pub/slackware/slackware/rootdisks >>> color.gz is about 2.2 mb but I'll have faith that this will write >>> properly >>> 5 diskettes later I _can't_ get one that will write. >>> so I format a diskette (windows 98) >>> ****************************** >>> d:\slack\format a: >>> Volume label (11 characters, ENTER for none)? >>> 1,457,664 bytes total disk space >>> 1,457,664 bytes available on disk >>> 512 bytes in each allocation unit. >>> 2,847 allocation units available on disk. >>> Volume Serial Number is 1A24-11ED >>> Format another (Y/N)?n >>> >>> D:\slack>rawrite >>> RaWrite 1.3 - Write disk file to raw floppy diskette >>> Enter source file name: color.gz >>> Enter destination drive: a >>> Please insert a formatted diskette into drive A: and press -ENTER- : >>> Number of sectors per track for this disk is 18 >>> Writing image to drive A:. Press ^C to abort. >>> *Bad sector detected Sector: 1 or 16 or 77...* >>> >>> I down load another color.gz from another site. >>> color.gz is about 2.5 mb >>> I get the same message every time I attempt to rawrite color.gz >>> *********************** >>> I go back to the slackware ftp site >>> go in to slackware 7 >>> the color.gz is about 1.3 megabytes >>> **************************** >>> Down load all new from slackware 7 >>> Same problem WTF! >>> Now after closing the command prompt and trying again the color.gz >>> would write >>> what was different? >>> doskey. >>> >>> AHHHHhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!! >>> >>> Sam. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Ben Lutgens http://us-admins.com/~blutgens/ US Admins, Inc System Administrator / Server Gumby _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blutgens at us-admins.com Fri Oct 3 09:22:24 2003 From: blutgens at us-admins.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cut Me Some.. In-Reply-To: <3F7C87C6.5020708@visi.com> Message-ID: <02545F64-F5AD-11D7-9B03-000A9581A7A6@us-admins.com> On Thursday, Oct 2, 2003, at 15:17 US/Central, Sam MacDonald wrote: > My lack of patience with things that lack exact documentation on the > web site. > That and I don't have time to down load all the files and disks. > This doesn't explain your desire for kernel 2.2. You should only need a few floppys for debian if you have a decent net connection. you'll need rescue.bin, root.bin. and the driver images (i think there's like 3-5 of them) the rest you can install via the net. Which should be at least _easier_ than swapping out dozens of floppies if not faster. Good luck. And my the schwartz be wit u. > Sam. > > Shawn wrote: > >> On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 14:08:35 -0500 >> Sam MacDonald wrote: >> >> >>> I'm already on disk 17 of the Debian install. >>> I don't want Kernel 2.4.x I want 2.2.x, aint paranoia wonderful! >>> >>> >> >> Not to be picky, but any particular reason why? >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Ben Lutgens http://us-admins.com/~blutgens/ US Admins, Inc System Administrator / Server Gumby _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blutgens at us-admins.com Fri Oct 3 09:27:34 2003 From: blutgens at us-admins.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Docs make you lazy? [WAS] Re: Cut Me Some.. In-Reply-To: <20031002155012.3cb5557c.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Thursday, Oct 2, 2003, at 15:50 US/Central, Shawn wrote: > Not to sound harsh, but to have everything laid out for you in exact > documentation makes for laziness, poor admins, and what you're > complaining about that IBM GS is doing. "Any monkey can do it, so > they can do it from afar." Documentation will never take the place of > knowledge, experience, and a desire to learn. It is, however, a great > support aid tool for those things which I just listed. This, is of > course, all IMO. > This is bar none one of the stupidest things I've ever read on this list. Without documentation, how are you supposed to learn about stuff? Guess? Divine the information from tea leaves? Lazy people don't read documentation, they expect someone to tell them everything. People with a decent work ethic, and a desire to learn conduct research on the problem at hand and read everything they can about said subject. Saying you are just supposed to know and memorize everything is absolutely stupid. I keep dozens of books on hand to use for reference, as well has HUNDREDS of bookmarks to sites with docs on them. If that makes me lazy than so be it. > > -- > Shawn > > The difficult we do today; the impossible take a little longer. > > Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Ben Lutgens http://us-admins.com/~blutgens/ US Admins, Inc System Administrator / Server Gumby _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From william.layer at comcast.net Fri Oct 3 08:53:17 2003 From: william.layer at comcast.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Recommendation for media player In-Reply-To: <20031002203813.A4126@thinkunix.net> References: <20031002235158.GA1100@fandre.com> <3F7CD1D3.3050409@lorenburlingame.com> <20031002203813.A4126@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <20031003085317.1d9c7487.william.layer@comcast.net> On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 20:38:13 -0500 Scot Jenkins wrote: > I'll too recommend mp3blaster. It's a nice curses interface and works > well even on an old P75 with a good SB soundcard. Hmm.. P75 sounds a little too slow for MP3s with higher bitrates like 256. The soundcard itself doesn't really matter in terms of decoding performance; I just don't think a P75 has quite enough horsepower for the job. The quality of the card does come into play, as you will be listening to it's DSP, D/A converter, linestage and possibly power amp. Use a card with an output chip that is discrete from the main audio chipset, like a CT4170 (SB16 PnP). That card has a little 6x6W power chip, but I am guessing it's sandbagged to 3x3W for sake of distortion and component life. You might also decide to use an external power amp, like a stereo reciever.. there are some tradeoffs to each method. -L _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Fri Oct 3 09:59:41 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (webmaster@mn-linux.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] A new classified ad at TCLUG Classifieds Message-ID: <200310031459.h93ExfE13968@crusader.real-time.com> A new TCLUG classified ad at was placed Fri Oct 3 09:59:41 2003. Name: Ben Neigebauer Category: computersell Subject: Panasonic KXT-616 Phone Switch Ad: Panasonic 6 incoming line 16 extension phone switch (PBX). No caller-id support. Perfect for a small shop/business or a large house. Includes manual. Can use panasonic phones or regular analog phones. To view this and other ads at TCLUG Classifieds, please visit: http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/classifieds.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mike at JentgeS.NeT Fri Oct 3 02:53:21 2003 From: mike at JentgeS.NeT (Michael Jentges) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Recommendation for media player In-Reply-To: <20031002235158.GA1100@fandre.com> References: <20031002235158.GA1100@fandre.com> Message-ID: <2181.199.199.150.110.1065167601.squirrel@webmail.jentges.net> Well since I already had the server in the basement, I just ran ethernet out there and since I've not got the 'beater' PC set up yet, I've been streaming off my laptop (gnump3d) with external speakers plugged into it. Seems to work decent. Unplug and bring in when done. May never get the other one done now. :) If you've got wireless, this might even be easier for you... -mj And hence spewed: Clay Fandre > I'm planning on building a mp3/ogg player out of an old P-233 I have > laying around for my garage. I still haven't decided if I'm going to use > a VGA monitor or just a Wyse terminal. Any recommendations on > software to run? Searching freshmeat turned up quite a few > apps/distros that do this. > > It would be really nice if it were a bootable CD, like Movix. I > haven't tried it yet, but it looks pretty cool. > http://movix.sourceforge.net/ > > But before I started playing around with all the options I thought I'd > get some ideas first. > > -- Clay > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list --------------------- Jentges.NET, Inc. Voice: 763.783.3702 Cell: 763.370.1201 --------------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Fri Oct 3 10:15:30 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] TCLUG books In-Reply-To: <1065152942.3849.45.camel@bigtime> References: <20031002192703.GD4467@fandre.com> <3F7C93C0.2030901@visi.com> <20031002212408.GA31915@refried.org> <1065152942.3849.45.camel@bigtime> Message-ID: <20031003151530.GA21971@fandre.com> On Thu, 02 Oct 2003, Callum Lerwick wrote: > > Good idea, but overkill on the implementation. Just create a > > tclug-books mailing list with archives. Just post when you have a book > > that you are willing to share. People can search the archives to see > > who has a book they want. > > Or just use our existing For Sale site thingy and create a Book Swap > section in it. Yea, that might be a quick and easy solution. I think for now I will bring the books to the meeting tomorrow so I can distribute them. I will probably have a sign-up sheet just so I can keep track of who has the books. After that I can figure out a way to continue to keep a record of who has the book. -- Clay _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Fri Oct 3 10:29:11 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Docs make you lazy? [WAS] Re: Cut Me Some.. In-Reply-To: References: <20031002155012.3cb5557c.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20031003102911.69e17fa4.sfertch@real-time.com> On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 09:27:34 -0500 Ben Lutgens wrote: > > On Thursday, Oct 2, 2003, at 15:50 US/Central, Shawn wrote: > > > Not to sound harsh, but to have everything laid out for you in exact > > documentation makes for laziness, poor admins, and what you're > > complaining about that IBM GS is doing. "Any monkey can do it, so > > they can do it from afar." Documentation will never take the place > > of knowledge, experience, and a desire to learn. It is, however, a > > great support aid tool for those things which I just listed. This, > > is of course, all IMO. > > > > This is bar none one of the stupidest things I've ever read on this > list. Without documentation, how are you supposed to learn about > stuff? Guess? Divine the information from tea leaves? > Reread my post. In particular this part: "Documentation will never take the place of knowledge, experience, and a desire to learn. It is, however, a great support aid tool for those things which I just listed." Reading that again, I probably should have used "should" instead of "will." As I stated in a later post: "Don't get me wrong, I'm not against decent documentation. But, to have every single step laid out, of any and all possible causes/issues/problems/etc gets overly burdensome at times. There are particular instances where things are taken for granted that the person knows specific steps or procedures to get to a point of what they are trying to accomplish. There's a point where documentation is good and beneficial, and there's a point where it's cumbersome and detrimental. Where that point is, depends upon each person. So, in a sense they have to write it to a particular low level of understanding. I'm still learning a lot, but IMO, to have every single step laid out and written for me takes away part of the enjoyment of getting things to work. It can be boring cookie cutter work, and can lead to the thought of "Why do I need to learn this, it's documented for me. If anything goes wrong, I'll just reference the book. Or call XXX vendor for support on all issues."" Again, I'm not against documentation. I to have a great deal of bookmarks to websites, books, cheat sheets, notes and so forth as well. What I am referring to in regards to being against documentation is the useless overdocumentation. Do you refer to documentation when you want to do a basic listing of a directory? How about when you want to do an interactive deletion of files within a directory? Chances are greatly not. You already know these basic steps, and that is the type of stuff which is generally omitted from documentations. It's an assumption that the person doing this already knows basic skills on certain things. If a person needs to refer to documentation on how to do what I would consider entry level stuff to do an advanced install, then they are greatly out of their league and should not be doing what they're attempting. Yes, there is a point where documentation is good to learn from and is beneficial in most instances. But, again what I am trying to say is that there is good useful documentation and there is bad overly burdensome documentation. Think of it this way: If you had to go in for open heart surgery, would you want a good experienced doctor who knows what he's doing and maybe has to refer to textbooks in rare instances. Or, would you rather have Joe Blow who's never held an Exacto knife and needs to read every single step to do the operation? Maybe that's a bad example, maybe not. Hopefully makes sense. -- Shawn The difficult we do today; the impossible take a little longer. Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rudie at rudie.net Fri Oct 3 13:38:52 2003 From: rudie at rudie.net (Kevin Hinze) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Slackware 9.1 In-Reply-To: <01b801c389b7$f9539210$d037630a@dh.com> References: <20031001135420.33b1ff92.william.layer@comcast.net> <018801c388f3$5e5bf0a0$d037630a@dh.com> <20031002111703.111bd0bb.rudie@rudie.net> <01b801c389b7$f9539210$d037630a@dh.com> Message-ID: <20031003133852.06951d44.rudie@rudie.net> On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 09:09:34 -0500 "Thomas T. Veldhouse" wrote: > > I don't think you read my mail correctly. I said that the alternate > kernels during install failed because the incorrect modules were > installed. The only way I could get the proper modules was to rebuild > the kernel from source myself. My bad. I guess I was reacting to this statement: "I think Slackware breaks handily when you take it off the well trodden path." Being such a big fan of Slackware, I thought I ought to respond. I've not installed slack with anything but the default kernel. I guess I would install the default, then once yer system is up and running, nab the kernel source you need, and build that. All rather plain and simple. But you're right, I did not read your email correctly. > Tom Veldhouse -- -Kevin Hinze rudie@rudie.net | rudie@sihope.com hinz0047@tc.umn.edu | http://rudie.net Democracy: two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for lunch Liberty: a well armed sheep expressing his rights. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From swarty at charter.net Fri Oct 3 13:19:57 2003 From: swarty at charter.net (Scott S) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Drive Issues? Message-ID: <000701c389da$f6eb56c0$0b01a8c0@aphrodite> I went to my RedHat 8.0 Samba server (home network) to login and found this on the screen. It was also, of course in the logs. Forgive me if this is a bit long as I have two questions. 1)I have never seen this before and being relatively new to Linux, I am not sure if this is a Hard Drive issue or a system issue. I don't get this all the time, but I have checked some previous logs, and seen this a number of times. It seems to be the same location all the time. My first reaction was a bad sector on the HD, so; A) Is this a Hard Drive issue, a kernel error, or another system error? B) What would be the best course of action? ** One more thing, the hdc refers to a data drive. There is no system files on the drive. ** Sep 28 04:48:53 Zeus kernel: hdc: dma_intr: status=0x51 { DriveReady SeekComplete Error } Sep 28 04:48:53 Zeus kernel: hdc: dma_intr: error=0x40 { UncorrectableError }, LBAsect=86840366, high=5, low=2954286, sector=86840296 Sep 28 04:48:53 Zeus kernel: end_request: I/O error, dev 16:01 (hdc), sector 86840296 Sep 28 04:48:57 Zeus kernel: hdc: dma_intr: status=0x51 { DriveReady SeekComplete Error } Sep 28 04:48:57 Zeus kernel: hdc: dma_intr: error=0x40 { UncorrectableError }, LBAsect=86840366, high=5, low=2954286, sector=86840296 Sep 28 04:48:57 Zeus kernel: end_request: I/O error, dev 16:01 (hdc), sector 86840296 Scott S. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Fri Oct 3 16:04:17 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Drive Issues? In-Reply-To: <000701c389da$f6eb56c0$0b01a8c0@aphrodite> References: <000701c389da$f6eb56c0$0b01a8c0@aphrodite> Message-ID: <1065215057.3849.71.camel@bigtime> > times. It seems to be the same location all the time. My first reaction > was a bad sector on the HD, so; > A) Is this a Hard Drive issue, a kernel error, or another system error? > B) What would be the best course of action? Same location every time? Definitely a bad sector. Back up everything important before it gets worse, and start shopping for a replacement drive. ;P If you keep accessing that sector, you MIGHT be able to convince the drive's bad sector management to map it out, but its a bad sign. You can maybe keep using the drive on an unimportant machine. So when we getting an open source SpinRite? I notice there's apparently an API for the needed low level access in recent kernels... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031003/b00f7cbf/attachment.pgp From seg at haxxed.com Fri Oct 3 16:10:18 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Total system breakage In-Reply-To: <1064358464.3918.50.camel@bigtime> References: <1064358464.3918.50.camel@bigtime> Message-ID: <1065215418.3849.75.camel@bigtime> Okay, I figured out what was wrong. Apparently the lwresd/nss-lwresd I was using for DNS, that has been working fine for over 6 months, quietly broke in the debian update. I nuked it off the systems and they work fine again. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031003/70ec6ba1/attachment.pgp From swarty at charter.net Fri Oct 3 16:37:30 2003 From: swarty at charter.net (Scott S) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Drive Issues? In-Reply-To: <1065215057.3849.71.camel@bigtime> Message-ID: <001001c389f6$8d7dfc30$0b01a8c0@aphrodite> This is what I was afraid of! The drive is a pretty new WD 160GB. I guess it is time for me to check out their warranty. It can't be more than a month old. Is there a utility like e2fsck that might help? Something to inspect the drive or the data? I was going to unmount the drive and run e2fsck, but was not sure if this would help. SCOTT S. -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Callum Lerwick Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 4:04 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Drive Issues? > times. It seems to be the same location all the time. My first > reaction was a bad sector on the HD, so; > A) Is this a Hard Drive issue, a kernel error, or another system > error? > B) What would be the best course of action? Same location every time? Definitely a bad sector. Back up everything important before it gets worse, and start shopping for a replacement drive. ;P If you keep accessing that sector, you MIGHT be able to convince the drive's bad sector management to map it out, but its a bad sign. You can maybe keep using the drive on an unimportant machine. So when we getting an open source SpinRite? I notice there's apparently an API for the needed low level access in recent kernels... _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Fri Oct 3 17:46:37 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] distro server In-Reply-To: <20031002222257.B23389@thinkunix.net> References: <1065127609.1026.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20031002222257.B23389@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <3F7DFC4D.2070301@eworld3.net> (question's for David Schiff) Scot Jenkins wrote: > that box looks perfect! > > You can probably remove the tape drive and SCSI card. I doubt we'll If you take the tape drive out, that would be ok but if you want to leave it in, I'll probably take it out and give it away at the next fest. I would prefer if you left the scsi card in since it gives us the option of adding a bunch of drives. If we can replace the smaller drive with something about 10 times it's size then we would be in FAT city. Ok, maybe ext3 city. :-) > need them during an installfest. > > - How much RAM does the box have? I would recommend 64MB as a minimum > more is better. True. I'm hoping it has a lot of slots and that they are DIMM. It would be nice to max it out. Do you know what the max is? > - add the CDRW drive that Rick mentioned You bet! > - add a 2nd NIC and set the box up for NAT I'm sure someone can donate a NIC, they run around $3! > - install a dhcp server > - install a caching dns server I'm hoping to get some help setting the thing up. > > setup following services for installs; for ease of use, I would not > require passwords or get too restrictive when setting these up: > - ftp > - http (apache) > - NFS > - samba Well, we may not get to everything before the next fest. We may do some of it AT the fest. ;-) > > partitioning: > 4.8 GB disk (root/boot disk): make one swap 2-3 x RAM and rest for / > 30 GB all one journalled partition; put all the isos here I'd like to scare up a couple of EIDE disks over 20 Gig so we don't have to bother with SCSI. > > David Schiff wrote: > >>I Have an old Gateway 2000 server (full tower) that I could bring to the >>Oct 4th LUG meeting on sat. >>CPU is Pentium r 200MHz >>Two Hard Drives 4.8GB & 30GB (ATA) >>One 3Com 3c905 100BaseTX(Boomerang) ethernet card >>Adataptec AHA-2940U/UW/D/AIC-7881U controller >>Internal Seagate tape drive >>Generic S3 VIRGE video card. >>I know it's alittle on the slow and on the clunky side but it's got >>plenty of room. If it will help the LUG I'll be glad to bring it. >>I read the list and find I'm learning some good stuff from you guys. > > -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff rick@eworld3.net 952-929-1659 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Fri Oct 3 18:34:56 2003 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Drive Issues? In-Reply-To: <001001c389f6$8d7dfc30$0b01a8c0@aphrodite> References: <001001c389f6$8d7dfc30$0b01a8c0@aphrodite> Message-ID: <1065224094.18160.2188.camel@3po> On Fri, 2003-10-03 at 16:37, Scott S wrote: > This is what I was afraid of! The drive is a pretty new WD 160GB. I guess > it is time for me to check out their warranty. It can't be more than a > month old. Check out their website and see if there are any utilities for checking the health of the drive. You can also change certain device settings. Although, the number of things you can do on an IDE drive is probably limited. I've only ever run those utilities on SCSI/FibreChannel disks.. > Is there a utility like e2fsck that might help? Something to inspect the > drive or the data? I was going to unmount the drive and run e2fsck, but was > not sure if this would help. IDE drives have had the capability to automatically handle bad blocks for a long time. This is generally a transparent process, but drives sometimes tell the operating system that something is going on. In fact, this feature can be turned off on some drives, but I think that's mostly only a tweak used on SCSI/FC RAID arrays.. Anyway, the point is that if your drive is complaining a lot about bad blocks, that usually means that it has run out of space to remap bad blocks into. A scan for bad blocks will help, but that is not a good option for the long term, since the drive will continue to get bad blocks from time to time. You can run e2fsck with the `-c' option to have it do a bad block scan (or maybe `-c -c' -- the documentation isn't too clear on what might be destructive and what is not). Unfortunately, that test will probably take an hour or so.. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ MS-DOS: celebrating over / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ twenty years of \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) obsolescence [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031003/0a5ba666/attachment.pgp From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Fri Oct 3 21:41:06 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Drive Issues? In-Reply-To: <001001c389f6$8d7dfc30$0b01a8c0@aphrodite> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Oct 2003, Scott S wrote: > This is what I was afraid of! The drive is a pretty new WD 160GB. I guess > it is time for me to check out their warranty. It can't be more than a > month old. > > Is there a utility like e2fsck that might help? Something to inspect the > drive or the data? I was going to unmount the drive and run e2fsck, but was > not sure if this would help. e2fsck does a file system integrity check, it does not check the actual surface of the disk. when creating a new filesystem you can have mkfs check the surface. (rather distructive if you want to keep thedata) if you want to test read access of the whole disk you can use dd or cat, as in: dd if=/dev/hdX of=/dev/null for a general write test you can use dd if=/dev/zero (or /dev/urandom) of=dev/hdX (this one is rather distructive as well, but it is the same as doing a "zero fill" that the HD utils does) none of these though are usefull if you want to fill out an RMA, for that you will need the error code that the hard drive utils spits out. Munir Nassar RedConcepts.NET http://redconcepts.net/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jpschewe at mtu.net Sat Oct 4 10:33:13 2003 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Drive Issues? In-Reply-To: <001001c389f6$8d7dfc30$0b01a8c0@aphrodite> References: <1065215057.3849.71.camel@bigtime> <001001c389f6$8d7dfc30$0b01a8c0@aphrodite> Message-ID: <16254.59449.264961.814687@workstation.mn.mtu.net> Do you have a journaling filesystem on that drive? I recently upgraded my machine at work and the new hard drive has write-back caching. Seems that journaling filesystems under Linux don't like and give these error. You can disable write back caching with hdparm -W 0. Here's a reference to some discussion on the issue. http://mail-index.netbsd.org/tech-kern/2002/12/08/0031.html >>>>> "SS" == Scott S writes: SS> This is what I was afraid of! The drive is a pretty new WD 160GB. I guess SS> it is time for me to check out their warranty. It can't be more than a SS> month old. SS> Is there a utility like e2fsck that might help? Something to inspect the SS> drive or the data? I was going to unmount the drive and run e2fsck, but was SS> not sure if this would help. SS> SCOTT S. SS> -----Original Message----- SS> From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org] SS> On Behalf Of Callum Lerwick SS> Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 4:04 PM SS> To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org SS> Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Drive Issues? >> times. It seems to be the same location all the time. My first >> reaction was a bad sector on the HD, so; >> A) Is this a Hard Drive issue, a kernel error, or another system >> error? >> B) What would be the best course of action? SS> Same location every time? Definitely a bad sector. Back up everything SS> important before it gets worse, and start shopping for a replacement drive. SS> ;P SS> If you keep accessing that sector, you MIGHT be able to convince the drive's SS> bad sector management to map it out, but its a bad sign. You can maybe keep SS> using the drive on an unimportant machine. SS> So when we getting an open source SpinRite? I notice there's apparently an SS> API for the needed low level access in recent kernels... SS> _______________________________________________ SS> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota SS> http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org SS> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe | jpschewe@mtu.net For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tedturbo at katamail.com Sat Oct 4 03:29:14 2003 From: tedturbo at katamail.com (Paolo) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Smart 2SL Message-ID: Hello! Are u familiar with this long card? i got one and i'm new with array controller should i compile cpqarray.o to use raid feature? if i want to use the card as a simple scsi controller, i haven't to change anything? and, last but not least, does exist anything to create and delete array from linux thanks paolo _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Sat Oct 4 18:29:49 2003 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] digital signatures presentation Message-ID: <20031004232949.GB27893@iucha.net> Skipped content of type multipart/mixed-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031004/a7022727/attachment.pgp From seg at haxxed.com Sat Oct 4 20:37:22 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Drive Issues? In-Reply-To: <001001c389f6$8d7dfc30$0b01a8c0@aphrodite> References: <001001c389f6$8d7dfc30$0b01a8c0@aphrodite> Message-ID: <1065317841.3849.1375.camel@bigtime> On Fri, 2003-10-03 at 16:37, Scott S wrote: > This is what I was afraid of! The drive is a pretty new WD 160GB. I guess > it is time for me to check out their warranty. It can't be more than a > month old. > > Is there a utility like e2fsck that might help? Something to inspect the > drive or the data? I was going to unmount the drive and run e2fsck, but was > not sure if this would help. You can use 'badblocks' to check for bad sectors, it can do both destructive write tests, non-destructive write tests, and read only tests. badblocks is what mke2fs calls when you tell it to check for bad blocks. If you run badblocks enough times you may cause the drive to map out the sector, this happened on a laptop drive of mine. Ran badblocks over it on loop for a while, and eventually the bad block disappeared. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031004/b2bd42da/attachment.pgp From seg at haxxed.com Sat Oct 4 21:07:56 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VeriSign Shuts Down Site Finder Message-ID: <1065319675.3849.1405.camel@bigtime> http://boston.internet.com/news/article.php/3087071 Sweet, ICANN finally put their foot down and also squarely up VeriSign's ass. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031004/303eaa5d/attachment.pgp From kcbnac at myrealbox.com Sat Oct 4 23:33:43 2003 From: kcbnac at myrealbox.com (K B) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VeriSign Shuts Down Site Finder Message-ID: <1065328423.b9812ba0kcbnac@myrealbox.com> Well...ICANN told Verisign 7PM PST, and at 11:32PM CTL, or 9:32PM PST, it's still up. So ICANN will (or at least should) be suing Versign. Hopefully they just pull Versign's right to any TLD's. -----Original Message----- From: Callum Lerwick To: "tclug-list@mn-linux.org" Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2003 21:07:56 -0500 Subject: [TCLUG] VeriSign Shuts Down Site Finder http://boston.internet.com/news/article.php/3087071 Sweet, ICANN finally put their foot down and also squarely up VeriSign's ass. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From waynej at dccmn.com Sun Oct 5 00:16:26 2003 From: waynej at dccmn.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux TV/Video Capture Message-ID: <2075.192.1.1.23.1065330986.squirrel@dccmn.com> I'm looking to add video capture to my RH Linux box. I've been looking at cards and come up with two that I think I like: Kworld TV Tuner, Video Capture card with Remote, Model KW-TV878RF Price: 39.00 Hauppauge WinTV-PVR 250 Model# 980 PCI TV Tuner Card Price: 145.00 Both support the 640x480 I targeted as a minimum resolution. Being NTSC is 525 line interlaced, the extra 720x480 the Hauppage supports doesn't seem justified by the extra cost. Anyone used these? Have recommendations? Tips? TIA, _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From waynej at dccmn.com Sun Oct 5 00:42:22 2003 From: waynej at dccmn.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Using Linux for Small Businesses & Non-profits Class Message-ID: <2322.192.1.1.23.1065332542.squirrel@dccmn.com> My partner and I have been tossing around the idea of having a class on "Using Linux for Small Businesses & Non-profits". The focus will be for the accidental techies that get sucked (imagine a black hole) into the job in their respective organizations. So far, I've been making a list of subjects to include. Here's just a small start: Computer Basics (what is a CPU, memory, hard disk, I/O, video card, etc.) Installing Linux (we have a lab with ~20 PCs, might as well give them some behind the wheel). Access Control (passwd, group, file system security) GUI vs Command line (including a tutorial in Vi) Available packages: OpenOffice Samba E-mail Serving Printer Configuration Networking (DHCP, Routing, Subnets, etc.) Apache, PHP, MySQL, Postgres, Perl, etc. Firewalling & Gateways (SNAT) & the Internet Backups Hardware: Modems CD-RW At this rate, It'll be a 4 year course. Any suggestions? Frequent subjects at InstallFests? Text books? Remember, some of these folks are pretty low end techies, so simpler is probably better. Maybe we can tie the class in with an installfest? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Sun Oct 5 01:02:52 2003 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux TV/Video Capture In-Reply-To: <2075.192.1.1.23.1065330986.squirrel@dccmn.com> References: <2075.192.1.1.23.1065330986.squirrel@dccmn.com> Message-ID: <1065333772.18160.2436.camel@3po> On Sun, 2003-10-05 at 00:16, Wayne Johnson wrote: > I'm looking to add video capture to my RH Linux box. I've been looking at > cards and come up with two that I think I like: > > Kworld TV Tuner, Video Capture card with Remote, Model KW-TV878RF > Price: 39.00 > > Hauppauge WinTV-PVR 250 Model# 980 PCI TV Tuner Card > Price: 145.00 > > Both support the 640x480 I targeted as a minimum resolution. Being NTSC > is 525 line interlaced, the extra 720x480 the Hauppage supports doesn't > seem justified by the extra cost. If the KWorld board uses a BT878 chipset (as it's model name implies), I bet it can do 768x480 capture. That's the maximum my (discontinued ATI TV Wonder) board can do. However, I don't really recommend '878 boards, as the ones I've used seem to have poor tuners. I see annoying interference patterns even with a pretty good cable connection. In my highly subjective experience, the PVR-250 and other boards tend to have better image quality. (Though I should warn that I am currently working for Adaptec, and they make a board which uses most of the same silicon as the PVR-250.) But, beyond image quality, the big advantage to the Hauppauge board is that it does on-board MPEG2 encoding. That's a really nice feature, as it offloads the CPU from doing heavy lifting, and MPEG2 also happens to be the format you need for making DVDs. The Hauppauge board doesn't work as well for watching Live TV (uncompressed video), but I guess support for that functionality is improving. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Windows isn't CrippleWare / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ -- it's "Functionally \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) Challenged." [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031005/d89c9774/attachment.pgp From seg at haxxed.com Sun Oct 5 01:37:28 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux TV/Video Capture In-Reply-To: <2075.192.1.1.23.1065330986.squirrel@dccmn.com> References: <2075.192.1.1.23.1065330986.squirrel@dccmn.com> Message-ID: <1065335848.3849.1485.camel@bigtime> On Sun, 2003-10-05 at 00:16, Wayne Johnson wrote: > I'm looking to add video capture to my RH Linux box. I've been looking at > cards and come up with two that I think I like: > > Kworld TV Tuner, Video Capture card with Remote, Model KW-TV878RF > Price: 39.00 > > Hauppauge WinTV-PVR 250 Model# 980 PCI TV Tuner Card > Price: 145.00 > > Both support the 640x480 I targeted as a minimum resolution. Being NTSC > is 525 line interlaced, the extra 720x480 the Hauppage supports doesn't > seem justified by the extra cost. Resolution is a pretty meaningless measure. BT8x8 max out 720x as well. TV 'resolution' is analog horizontally. 640 gives you 'true' square pixels. 720 is what DVD and pro-grade digital video uses, (which includes 16 pixels of overscan area...) and pretty much the max you can get out of an analog TV signal. If you really want a headache, try this on for size: http://www.uwasa.fi/~f76998/video/conversion/ Note, you're looking at two completely different classes of hardware here. The Kworld is a BT878 based card, which should work fine. The WinTV PVR 250 has a hardware MPEG2 encoder, and as far as I can tell it will ONLY capture in MPEG2. This makes it a foreign element to most linux TV/video software. There's a driver for it, but most software will not be able to deal with MPEG2. To watch live video, you'd have to decode the mpeg2 in software to actually display anything. Whereas a BT848/878 card can DMA live video directly to your video card's overlay plane, using no CPU time. As named, its ment for PVR use. MythTV is working on support for it. See: ivtv.sourceforge.net www.mythtv.org If you only plan on capturing MPEG2 video and/or only use MythTV, the PVR 250 would be quite slick. Otherwise a BT848/878 card would be more useful. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031005/a6f43c0a/attachment.pgp From poptix at techmonkeys.org Sun Oct 5 01:56:01 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux TV/Video Capture In-Reply-To: <1065335848.3849.1485.camel@bigtime> References: <2075.192.1.1.23.1065330986.squirrel@dccmn.com> <1065335848.3849.1485.camel@bigtime> Message-ID: <20031005065601.GF9284@techmonkeys.org> On Sun, Oct 05, 2003 at 01:37:28AM -0500, Callum Lerwick wrote: > > The WinTV PVR 250 has a hardware MPEG2 encoder, and as far as I can tell > it will ONLY capture in MPEG2. This makes it a foreign element to most > linux TV/video software. There's a driver for it, but most software will > not be able to deal with MPEG2. It also supports MPEG-1, and raw YUV capture. > MythTV is > working on support for it. See: ivtv.sourceforge.net www.mythtv.org It's well beyond the point of 'working on support', it's worked quite well for many moons. > > If you only plan on capturing MPEG2 video and/or only use MythTV, the > PVR 250 would be quite slick. Otherwise a BT848/878 card would be more > useful. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031005/46b44b4d/attachment.pgp From david at acz.org Sun Oct 5 07:29:56 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Using Linux for Small Businesses & Non-profits Class References: <2322.192.1.1.23.1065332542.squirrel@dccmn.com> Message-ID: <006001c38b3c$62a2a230$0201a8c0@brinstar> Wayne Johnson writes: > Installing Linux (we have a lab with ~20 PCs, might as well > give them some behind the wheel). This is a problem. What distro do you use? Do any of the distros with an easy installer offer a free, automatic system for security updates? With Debian, you could easily setup security updates to run nightly from cron. Unfortunately, Debian does not have the easiest installer. As much as everyone would like to believe that UNIX software is magically immune to security holes, it simply isn't true. Almost all popular programs have had security holes that allow arbitrary code execution. Setting newbies up with Linux systems that aren't automatically updated with security fixes is just as irresponsible setting them up with Windows boxes. Another issue is the operating system becoming obsolete. Some companies such as Red Hat make their operating systems obsolete faster than even Microsoft. How does the user upgrade without reinstalling from scratch? Ideally, the operating systems needs a way to update itself from any version to any version with no user intervention besides a few questions. > Access Control (passwd, group, file system security) There is a lot more to UNIX security than just that. Understanding file permissions is almost useless without understanding process credentials. Why shouldn't things run as root? Why shouldn't all daemons run as "nobody"? If a process is compromised, what other files and processes can become compromised? > GUI vs Command line (including a tutorial in Vi) Haha. The vi interface is not at all intuitive. Trying to teach newbies how to use it is pointless and stupid. They have no need to use it. After the course, if the user is so inclined, he can spend the months it takes to learn an archaic interface designed for incredibly slow machines that were accessed using terminals with different keyboard layouts. vi is not efficient in the default setup with the keyboards on most PCs. A Happy Hacking keyboard or a mapping like it would make vi much more efficient. But with the default setup, having to take your hand off the home row to press escape slows you down and increases hand stress. Here is an interview with Bill Joy, the original author of vi, along with a picture of the terminal it was designed for: http://www.cs.pdx.edu/~kirkenda/joy84.html http://www.tentacle.franken.de/adm3a/ The above is my opinion. Perhaps vim has better default key mappings, or even a modeless interface. If so, I would love to hear about it. At any rate, it is counter productive to attempt to teach vi to newbies. nano, joe or ee would be a much better choice. My pick would be joe, because it almost as easy to use and has basically any feature an advanced user would want from a text editor, except for syntax highlighting. It even has a pico imitation mode, run by running jpico. > E-mail Serving Make sure to pick a secure MTA, such as qmail or Postfix. > PHP If you need to teach a user what a CPU is, you should not be trying to teach them a programming language in the same course, especially not one that makes it easy to have huge remote security holes. This isn't to say it's difficult to write secure PHP, but looking at all the security holes in various open source PHP applications demonstrates that amateurs make a lot of mistakes. > MySQL, Postgres Databases are an advanced concept that you probably shouldn't be trying to teach. If a user doesn't know what a database is, a Linux intro course probably isn't the time. If you want to give a two minute demo on databases, MySQL would be my pick, since it's a lot easier to use. > Perl The thing for PHP also applies here, basically. Perl is not a good first language. If the user wants to learn Perl later, recommend a good book. If you are really intent on an intro to programming, I recommend Python. It is much more elegant, user friendly and makes it easier to teach concepts. The interactive interpreter can be a wonderful teaching tool. This book is excellent, even for non programmers: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0201748843 > At this rate, It'll be a 4 year course. Yep. > Any suggestions? Don't. Newbies should not be deploying machines on the Internet, period. Teaching them how to setup a Linux operating system for a desktop machine that will be behind a hardware NAT router is probably alright. Take a hint from Apple on usability. How many average Mac users know about UNIX permissions? The average user doesn't care and shouldn't need to. Focus on what the user needs to do, not on general UNIX concepts. Need an email server? Web hosting? Outsource it. If an organization can't afford $15 a month for that, they certainly can't afford to be deploying machines on the internet. Businesses exist to make money, not do something a certain way because you think it is cool (case in point: vi). Make sure a solution's total cost of ownership is cheaper than the alternatives. Software cost is usually a small factor. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Sun Oct 5 10:48:18 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Smart 2SL In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F803D42.4080402@visi.com> Is the 2sl in a compaq machine? If it isn't it wont work. Sam/ Paolo wrote: >Hello! >Are u familiar with this long card? >i got one and i'm new with array controller > >should i compile cpqarray.o to use raid feature? >if i want to use the card as a simple scsi controller, i haven't to >change anything? > >and, last but not least, does exist anything to create and delete array from linux > >thanks paolo > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From waynej at dccmn.com Sun Oct 5 10:45:50 2003 From: waynej at dccmn.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Using Linux for Small Businesses & Non-profits Class In-Reply-To: <006001c38b3c$62a2a230$0201a8c0@brinstar> References: <2322.192.1.1.23.1065332542.squirrel@dccmn.com> <006001c38b3c$62a2a230$0201a8c0@brinstar> Message-ID: <3329.192.1.1.23.1065368750.squirrel@dccmn.com> David Phillips said: > Wayne Johnson writes: >> Installing Linux (we have a lab with ~20 PCs, might as well >> give them some behind the wheel). > > This is a problem. What distro do you use? Do any of the distros with > an easy installer offer a free, automatic system for security updates? > With Debian, you could easily setup security updates to run nightly from > ... As far as distros, we were going to start them on Redhat (easiest to install), with a quick overview of others. As far as maintanance, Redhat is about as easy as others, true, you do have to answer a survey every few months in order to maintain their free up2date access, but I don't think it's going to break anyone. Automatic updates are as problematic as they are beneficial. Last week our Apache stopped working when we picked up a perl update that required matching changes to the httpd.conf file. The httpd.conf file was not updated because it had local changes. >> Access Control (passwd, group, file system security) > > There is a lot more to UNIX security than just that. Understanding file > permissions is almost useless without understanding process credentials. > Why shouldn't things run as root? Why shouldn't all daemons run as > "nobody"? If a process is compromised, what other files and processes > can become compromised? My comment on access control is more, how to add users, remove them, why can't user a access a file from user b, etc. >> GUI vs Command line (including a tutorial in Vi) > > Haha. The vi interface is not at all intuitive. Trying to teach > newbies how to use it is pointless and stupid. ... > My pick would be joe, because it almost as easy to use and has basically > any feature an advanced user would want from a text editor, except for > syntax highlighting. It even has a pico imitation mode, run by running > jpico. I'll take a look at Joe, I agree vi is not as easy as it should be. Maybe we should just stick with the GUI editors. >> E-mail Serving > > Make sure to pick a secure MTA, such as qmail or Postfix. I'm not going to touch this... :{)> >> PHP > > If you need to teach a user what a CPU is, you should not be trying to > teach them a programming language in the same course, especially not one > that makes it easy to have huge remote security holes... We were just doing an introduction to show the possibilities of dynamic HTML. > Don't. Newbies should not be deploying machines on the Internet, > period. Teaching them how to setup a Linux operating system for a > desktop machine that will be behind a hardware NAT router is probably > alright. Of course Internet machines are an advanced subject. This is just an introduction. To show what is possible with further study. Worst is to let a nubie run a Windows system on the internet. There is a benefit to these organizations to have an internal web site. Thanks for your input. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hoff0438 at umn.edu Sun Oct 5 10:53:17 2003 From: hoff0438 at umn.edu (John Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Smart 2SL In-Reply-To: <3F803D42.4080402@visi.com> Message-ID: <005d01c38b58$cb5f01d0$2900a8c0@aurvandil> Yes it will. I've got one in a [Gateway] tower downstairs right now. Yes, you need the cpqarray module for the card, and it shows devices under /dev/ida/disc?/disc where 'disc?' is a disc number starting at 0, and represents a logical disc on your array. I think. I set mine up with only one partition but have 3, the third (disc2) is by far the largest (i.e. the one I created.) I'm pretty sure I just used LVM (Linux Volume Manager) utilities to partition the drive, too. (Just striped the drives, so I don't know if it would work with setting up RAID5 or something.) John > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Sam MacDonald > Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 10:48 > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Smart 2SL > > > Is the 2sl in a compaq machine? > If it isn't it wont work. > > Sam/ > > Paolo wrote: > > >Hello! > >Are u familiar with this long card? > >i got one and i'm new with array controller > > > >should i compile cpqarray.o to use raid feature? > >if i want to use the card as a simple scsi controller, i haven't to > >change anything? > > > >and, last but not least, does exist anything to create and > delete array > >from linux > > > >thanks paolo > > > >_______________________________________________ > >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rware at interplastic.com Sun Oct 5 11:02:09 2003 From: rware at interplastic.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Using Linux for Small Businesses & Non-profits Class Message-ID: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B18B@ipserver2.interplastic.com> Not to be a wet blanket, but most of those people being sucked into support roles are sucked into a mostly or completely Microsoft environment. Small businesses typically have not been your *nix users for a number of reasons. Originally Unix was costly, Microsoft was cheaper. Microsoft was easier to use. Only recently has there been desktop ready for the average user a cheap Unix variant (Linux). You'd be better off helping them with their Windows skills and teaching them how about the possibility of saving some dough by using Open Office instead of office, on Windows. Then later show them some of the other things Open Source and Linux have going for them that might allow them to save more money. One thing to consider too. How successful in these businesses will a "switch" campaign be received or even useful to them if they already have say an NT environment in place with exchange that runs acceptably, that they are comfortable with and don't need to upgrade? Your class might be better for people that don't have much invested in an existing environment. I don't see OS/Linux as a natural fit for these small companies unless they just hire their adminning out, as a lot of them won't have full time "IT" guys anyway. The person likely to be stuck in this support role is looking for the easiest way out, not necessarily the most technically superior because he has "real" job duties too besides keeping the computers running. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Wayne Johnson To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org; nonprofit_tech_talk@communityforum.net Cc: dcoats@mlla.org Sent: 10/5/03 12:42 AM Subject: [TCLUG] Using Linux for Small Businesses & Non-profits Class My partner and I have been tossing around the idea of having a class on "Using Linux for Small Businesses & Non-profits". The focus will be for the accidental techies that get sucked (imagine a black hole) into the job in their respective organizations. So far, I've been making a list of subjects to include. Here's just a small start: Computer Basics (what is a CPU, memory, hard disk, I/O, video card, etc.) Installing Linux (we have a lab with ~20 PCs, might as well give them some behind the wheel). Access Control (passwd, group, file system security) GUI vs Command line (including a tutorial in Vi) Available packages: OpenOffice Samba E-mail Serving Printer Configuration Networking (DHCP, Routing, Subnets, etc.) Apache, PHP, MySQL, Postgres, Perl, etc. Firewalling & Gateways (SNAT) & the Internet Backups Hardware: Modems CD-RW At this rate, It'll be a 4 year course. Any suggestions? Frequent subjects at InstallFests? Text books? Remember, some of these folks are pretty low end techies, so simpler is probably better. Maybe we can tie the class in with an installfest? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Sun Oct 5 13:07:10 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] X Windows. Message-ID: <3F805DCE.4080801@visi.com> I just installed Debian base on the machine that was a Redhat 6.X box. I was looking at the debian site trying to figure out how to do a minimal installation of X windows. Looking at all the packages under http://packages.debian.org/stable/x11/ confused me a bit. I looked at the howto and I went in to denial. I don't want every feature, application, etc,, that comes with Gnome or KDE. I really like Afterstep so that's the direction I want to go. I find that using a minimal set of tools lets me understand the internals of any system and reduces the clutter. To much stuff is just, to much stuff in my book. (KISS = Keep It Simple Sam) "Does anyone have or know of websites I can read that will help me better understand the internals of X windows?" I know I will need Xfree, Afterstep, and other components to make this work. X windows has just boggled my mind when it comes to configuration. I had times when it just doesn't work because I don't understand what to tweek to get it to run. What I presently have installed is Debian 2.2.20, ssh, samba, vlock, apache, mysql, joe, and php4. I want X windows so I can use a graphical HTML editor (unknown). Once X windows is installed I'll install Mozilla and thats about it. Eventually I want to have only Linux "servers" in the house and moving to the desktop when I can get more up to date hardware for my kid's so they can run Wine or other windows emulator for the games they like. I also need to be able to support the environment so it doesn't drive me crazy. I have these websites bookmarked for study. I have found having more then 1 source of information is important. Each community has it's own resources and ideas on how to do things that help in learning. http://www.x.org/ http://www.xfree86.org/ http://www.afterstep.org/ Thanks Sam. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Sun Oct 5 13:09:05 2003 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] X Windows. In-Reply-To: <3F805DCE.4080801@visi.com> References: <3F805DCE.4080801@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031005180905.GA32751@mail.el-swifto.com> On Sun, Oct 05, 2003 at 01:07:10PM -0500, Sam MacDonald wrote: > What I presently have installed is Debian 2.2.20, Current Debian stable ("woody") is 3.0r1. Debian 2.x is *way* old. -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net Sun Oct 5 13:13:43 2003 From: scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] X Windows. In-Reply-To: <3F805DCE.4080801@visi.com>; from smac@visi.com on Sun, Oct 05, 2003 at 01:07:10PM -0500 References: <3F805DCE.4080801@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031005131343.A21709@thinkunix.net> Sam, I'm thinking this is probably the easiest thing to do: apt-get install -s mozilla --OR-- apt-get install -s afterstep the '-s' says to show what it would do without actually doing it. both mozilla and afterstep will require X11. Once you see what it will do, just rerun without the '-s' option and it will install what's required. Debian rocks. other options: tasksel, dselect, aptitude (my personal favorite) for selecting individual packages. Sam MacDonald wrote: > I just installed Debian base on the machine that was a Redhat 6.X box. > I was looking at the debian site trying to figure out how to do a > minimal installation of X windows. Looking at all the packages under > http://packages.debian.org/stable/x11/ confused me a bit. I looked at > the howto and I went in to denial. I don't want every feature, > application, etc,, that comes with Gnome or KDE. I really like > Afterstep so that's the direction I want to go. I find that using a > minimal set of tools lets me understand the internals of any system and > reduces the clutter. To much stuff is just, to much stuff in my book. > (KISS = Keep It Simple Sam) > > "Does anyone have or know of websites I can read that will help me > better understand the internals of X windows?" I know I will need > Xfree, Afterstep, and other components to make this work. X windows has > just boggled my mind when it comes to configuration. I had times when > it just doesn't work because I don't understand what to tweek to get it > to run. > > What I presently have installed is Debian 2.2.20, ssh, samba, vlock, > apache, mysql, joe, and php4. I want X windows so I can use a graphical > HTML editor (unknown). Once X windows is installed I'll install Mozilla > and thats about it. > > Eventually I want to have only Linux "servers" in the house and moving > to the desktop when I can get more up to date hardware for my kid's so > they can run Wine or other windows emulator for the games they like. I > also need to be able to support the environment so it doesn't drive me > crazy. > > I have these websites bookmarked for study. I have found having more > then 1 source of information is important. Each community has it's own > resources and ideas on how to do things that help in learning. > > http://www.x.org/ > http://www.xfree86.org/ > http://www.afterstep.org/ > > > Thanks > Sam. > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Sun Oct 5 14:35:58 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Using Linux for Small Businesses & Non-profits Class References: <2322.192.1.1.23.1065332542.squirrel@dccmn.com> <006001c38b3c$62a2a230$0201a8c0@brinstar> <3329.192.1.1.23.1065368750.squirrel@dccmn.com> Message-ID: <001801c38b77$e6a6dc50$0201a8c0@brinstar> Wayne Johnson writes: > Automatic updates are as > problematic as they are beneficial. Last week our Apache stopped > working when we picked up a perl update that required matching > changes to the httpd.conf file. The httpd.conf file was not updated > because it had local changes. This should not happen, or at least should not happen very often. Does Red Hat have security only updates for their distros for years like Debian? Debian back ports security fixes to the stable versions of software. I don't think Red Hat does this, because they want to suck you into upgrading every year or so. It is much better for the occasional security update to break something and require manual intervention, than it is to not have them at all. If people don't patch their Windows boxes, they aren't going to patch their Linux boxes. Security updates have to be automatic. Even Microsoft realizes this now. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Sun Oct 5 17:40:17 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Using Linux for Small Businesses & Non-profits Class In-Reply-To: <001801c38b77$e6a6dc50$0201a8c0@brinstar> References: <2322.192.1.1.23.1065332542.squirrel@dccmn.com> <006001c38b3c$62a2a230$0201a8c0@brinstar> <3329.192.1.1.23.1065368750.squirrel@dccmn.com> <001801c38b77$e6a6dc50$0201a8c0@brinstar> Message-ID: <20031005224017.GG9284@techmonkeys.org> On Sun, Oct 05, 2003 at 02:35:58PM -0500, David Phillips wrote: > This should not happen, or at least should not happen very often. Does Red > Hat have security only updates for their distros for years like Debian? > Debian back ports security fixes to the stable versions of software. I > don't think Red Hat does this, because they want to suck you into upgrading > every year or so. You've confused Red Hat with Microsoft again, last I saw, Red Hat was still releasing security updates for 7.3, and not-all-that-long-ago, finally stopped releasing security updates for 6.x For what it's worth, he should be using apt4rpm instead of up2date, it doesn't require the annoyances of a survey. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mcolivier at earthlink.net Sun Oct 5 10:46:17 2003 From: mcolivier at earthlink.net (Marc Olivier) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 1. Using Linux for Small Businesses & Non-profits Class (Wayne Johnson) In-Reply-To: <20031005170004.21724.40449.Mailman@pirate.real-time.com> References: <20031005170004.21724.40449.Mailman@pirate.real-time.com> Message-ID: <200310050846.17441.mcolivier@earthlink.net> First, there is a local organization, management assistance programs for nonprofits (www.mapnp.org) that is working very hard at cornering the market at providing IT assistance to nonprofit organizations. The operating system of choice is Windows, but the software being promoted is (or was) a proprietary suite of applications. They have already set up a full tech support system, so you may want to at least investigate their set-up before you spend more time on this idea. Marc > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 00:42:22 -0500 (CDT) > From: "Wayne Johnson" > To: , > Cc: > Subject: [TCLUG] Using Linux for Small Businesses & Non-profits Class > Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > My partner and I have been tossing around the idea of having a class on > "Using Linux for Small Businesses & Non-profits". The focus will be for > the accidental techies that get sucked (imagine a black hole) into the job > in their respective organizations. > > So far, I've been making a list of subjects to include. Here's just a > small start: > > Computer Basics (what is a CPU, memory, hard disk, I/O, video card, etc.) > Installing Linux (we have a lab with ~20 PCs, might as well give them some > behind the wheel). > Access Control (passwd, group, file system security) > GUI vs Command line (including a tutorial in Vi) > > Available packages: > OpenOffice > Samba > E-mail Serving > Printer Configuration > Networking (DHCP, Routing, Subnets, etc.) > Apache, PHP, MySQL, Postgres, Perl, etc. > Firewalling & Gateways (SNAT) & the Internet > Backups > > Hardware: > Modems > CD-RW > > At this rate, It'll be a 4 year course. > > Any suggestions? Frequent subjects at InstallFests? Text books? > Remember, some of these folks are pretty low end techies, so simpler is > probably better. > > Maybe we can tie the class in with an installfest? > --__--__-- > > Message: 5 > From: "David Phillips" > To: > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Using Linux for Small Businesses & Non-profits Class > Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 07:29:56 -0500 > Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > Wayne Johnson writes: > > Installing Linux (we have a lab with ~20 PCs, might as well > > give them some behind the wheel). > > This is a problem. What distro do you use? Do any of the distros with an > easy installer offer a free, automatic system for security updates? With > Debian, you could easily setup security updates to run nightly from cron. > Unfortunately, Debian does not have the easiest installer. > > As much as everyone would like to believe that UNIX software is magically > immune to security holes, it simply isn't true. Almost all popular > programs have had security holes that allow arbitrary code execution. > Setting newbies up with Linux systems that aren't automatically updated > with security fixes is just as irresponsible setting them up with Windows > boxes. > > Another issue is the operating system becoming obsolete. Some companies > such as Red Hat make their operating systems obsolete faster than even > Microsoft. How does the user upgrade without reinstalling from scratch? > Ideally, the operating systems needs a way to update itself from any > version to any version with no user intervention besides a few questions. > > > Access Control (passwd, group, file system security) > > There is a lot more to UNIX security than just that. Understanding file > permissions is almost useless without understanding process credentials. > Why shouldn't things run as root? Why shouldn't all daemons run as > "nobody"? If a process is compromised, what other files and processes can > become compromised? > > > GUI vs Command line (including a tutorial in Vi) > > Haha. The vi interface is not at all intuitive. Trying to teach newbies > how to use it is pointless and stupid. They have no need to use it. After > the course, if the user is so inclined, he can spend the months it takes to > learn an archaic interface designed for incredibly slow machines that were > accessed using terminals with different keyboard layouts. > > vi is not efficient in the default setup with the keyboards on most PCs. A > Happy Hacking keyboard or a mapping like it would make vi much more > efficient. But with the default setup, having to take your hand off the > home row to press escape slows you down and increases hand stress. Here is > an interview with Bill Joy, the original author of vi, along with a picture > of the terminal it was designed for: > > http://www.cs.pdx.edu/~kirkenda/joy84.html > http://www.tentacle.franken.de/adm3a/ > > The above is my opinion. Perhaps vim has better default key mappings, or > even a modeless interface. If so, I would love to hear about it. At any > rate, it is counter productive to attempt to teach vi to newbies. nano, > joe or ee would be a much better choice. > > My pick would be joe, because it almost as easy to use and has basically > any feature an advanced user would want from a text editor, except for > syntax highlighting. It even has a pico imitation mode, run by running > jpico. > > > E-mail Serving > > Make sure to pick a secure MTA, such as qmail or Postfix. > > > PHP > > If you need to teach a user what a CPU is, you should not be trying to > teach them a programming language in the same course, especially not one > that makes it easy to have huge remote security holes. This isn't to say > it's difficult to write secure PHP, but looking at all the security holes > in various open source PHP applications demonstrates that amateurs make a > lot of mistakes. > > > MySQL, Postgres > > Databases are an advanced concept that you probably shouldn't be trying to > teach. If a user doesn't know what a database is, a Linux intro course > probably isn't the time. If you want to give a two minute demo on > databases, MySQL would be my pick, since it's a lot easier to use. > > > Perl > > The thing for PHP also applies here, basically. Perl is not a good first > language. If the user wants to learn Perl later, recommend a good book. > > If you are really intent on an intro to programming, I recommend Python. > It is much more elegant, user friendly and makes it easier to teach > concepts. The interactive interpreter can be a wonderful teaching tool. > This book is excellent, even for non programmers: > > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0201748843 > > > At this rate, It'll be a 4 year course. > > Yep. > > > Any suggestions? > > Don't. Newbies should not be deploying machines on the Internet, period. > Teaching them how to setup a Linux operating system for a desktop machine > that will be behind a hardware NAT router is probably alright. > > Take a hint from Apple on usability. How many average Mac users know about > UNIX permissions? The average user doesn't care and shouldn't need to. > Focus on what the user needs to do, not on general UNIX concepts. > > Need an email server? Web hosting? Outsource it. If an organization > can't afford $15 a month for that, they certainly can't afford to be > deploying machines on the internet. > > Businesses exist to make money, not do something a certain way because you > think it is cool (case in point: vi). Make sure a solution's total cost of > ownership is cheaper than the alternatives. Software cost is usually a > small factor. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Sun Oct 5 20:57:54 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] X Windows. In-Reply-To: <20031005131343.A21709@thinkunix.net> References: <3F805DCE.4080801@visi.com> <20031005131343.A21709@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <3F80CC22.8090005@visi.com> See, I'm trying to know what I'm doing before I do it. I like apt-get but I want to know what it does before it does it, so to speak. I don't want to just slap everything on the machine and then find out where it gets put. Finding out after it's installed makes it difficult to determine purpose and document. Sam. Simplicity is in the eye of the beholder, after the the technical guy made it work. Scot Jenkins wrote: >Sam, >I'm thinking this is probably the easiest thing to do: > >apt-get install -s mozilla --OR-- >apt-get install -s afterstep > >the '-s' says to show what it would do without actually doing it. >both mozilla and afterstep will require X11. Once you see what it will >do, just rerun without the '-s' option and it will install what's >required. Debian rocks. > >other options: >tasksel, dselect, aptitude (my personal favorite) for selecting >individual packages. > > >Sam MacDonald wrote: > > >>I just installed Debian base on the machine that was a Redhat 6.X box. >>I was looking at the debian site trying to figure out how to do a >>minimal installation of X windows. Looking at all the packages under >>http://packages.debian.org/stable/x11/ confused me a bit. I looked at >>the howto and I went in to denial. I don't want every feature, >>application, etc,, that comes with Gnome or KDE. I really like >>Afterstep so that's the direction I want to go. I find that using a >>minimal set of tools lets me understand the internals of any system and >>reduces the clutter. To much stuff is just, to much stuff in my book. >>(KISS = Keep It Simple Sam) >> >>"Does anyone have or know of websites I can read that will help me >>better understand the internals of X windows?" I know I will need >>Xfree, Afterstep, and other components to make this work. X windows has >>just boggled my mind when it comes to configuration. I had times when >>it just doesn't work because I don't understand what to tweek to get it >>to run. >> >>What I presently have installed is Debian 2.2.20, ssh, samba, vlock, >>apache, mysql, joe, and php4. I want X windows so I can use a graphical >>HTML editor (unknown). Once X windows is installed I'll install Mozilla >>and thats about it. >> >>Eventually I want to have only Linux "servers" in the house and moving >>to the desktop when I can get more up to date hardware for my kid's so >>they can run Wine or other windows emulator for the games they like. I >>also need to be able to support the environment so it doesn't drive me >>crazy. >> >>I have these websites bookmarked for study. I have found having more >>then 1 source of information is important. Each community has it's own >>resources and ideas on how to do things that help in learning. >> >>http://www.x.org/ >>http://www.xfree86.org/ >>http://www.afterstep.org/ >> >> >>Thanks >>Sam. >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Sun Oct 5 21:33:26 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (webmaster@mn-linux.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] A new classified ad at TCLUG Classifieds Message-ID: <200310060233.h962XQb21099@crusader.real-time.com> A new TCLUG classified ad at was placed Sun Oct 5 21:33:26 2003. Name: Doug Hanson Category: computerwanted Subject: ATX case Ad: Hi, I am looking for an ATX case, nothing fancy, it's for my son. The cheaper the better ;)~ To view this and other ads at TCLUG Classifieds, please visit: http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/classifieds.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From wilson at visi.com Sun Oct 5 21:59:33 2003 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] generating passphrases with dice Message-ID: <200310052159.33850.wilson@visi.com> I mentioned a Web site at the meeting on Sat. that describes a technique for generating passphrases with a lot of entropy by rolling dice. The URL, for anyone who's interested, is http://world.std.com/~reinhold/diceware.html -Tim -- Tim Wilson Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Science teacher, Linux fan, Zope developer, Grad. student, Daddy mailto:wilson@visi.com | http://qwerk.org/ | public key: 0x8C0F8813 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From wilson at visi.com Sun Oct 5 21:48:17 2003 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] TCLUG books Message-ID: <200310052148.17129.wilson@visi.com> Hey everyone, The following books weren't in the box at the end of Saturday's TCLUG meeting and there was no name written on the sheet: Linux Server Hacks (Flickenger) Building Secure Servers with Linux (Bauer) Either Clay too first dibs on these or a couple people forgot to put their name on the list. If you've got them, please let Clay or me know. -Tim -- Tim Wilson Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Science teacher, Linux fan, Zope developer, Grad. student, Daddy mailto:wilson@visi.com | http://qwerk.org/ | public key: 0x8C0F8813 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Mon Oct 6 06:19:48 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] TCLUG books In-Reply-To: <200310052148.17129.wilson@visi.com> References: <200310052148.17129.wilson@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031006111948.GA1937@fandre.com> Whoops. Tim, that's my fault. They were sitting on my kitchen table. I must have forgotten to put them in the box. Sorry about that. -- Clay On Sun, 05 Oct 2003, Timothy Wilson wrote: > Hey everyone, > > The following books weren't in the box at the end of Saturday's TCLUG meeting > and there was no name written on the sheet: > > Linux Server Hacks (Flickenger) > Building Secure Servers with Linux (Bauer) > > Either Clay too first dibs on these or a couple people forgot to put their > name on the list. If you've got them, please let Clay or me know. > > -Tim _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Mon Oct 6 08:31:04 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Using Linux for Small Businesses & Non-profits Class In-Reply-To: <2322.192.1.1.23.1065332542.squirrel@dccmn.com> References: <2322.192.1.1.23.1065332542.squirrel@dccmn.com> Message-ID: <3F816E98.7040703@visi.com> Sounds like a technical course with all the server software involved. a class on "Using Linux for Small Businesses & Non-profits". The focus will be for the accidental techies I have a backfround in training terminally non-technical, really nice people, so I can speek to this subject. If you're training a support person they will need to answer questions about word processing and spreedsheets, restore files, and keep data safe. They need to be the Power user of the software the company uses. If the person needs to write queries against a database, they need to learn to use some sort of report writing tool not MySQL, Postgres, or SQL. They don't necessarly need to know the hardware or programming (PhP/ Perl). If the company needs a program tweeked or hardware fixed that would be your job :-) Write scripts that create the user account, email account, home directrory and share. Profile the types of jobs employees do, determine group membership, write a script for each profile that sets the group membership for the uses. Make this a browser based tool. Remember this person will need to do the other part of the job they were initially hired for, this isn't a full time job. Remember to keep some of the more technical stuff on your plate. Make the job easy for the power user and the company will be more successful. Sam. Simplicity is in the eye of the beholder, after the the technical guy made it work. Wayne Johnson wrote: >My partner and I have been tossing around the idea of having a class on >"Using Linux for Small Businesses & Non-profits". The focus will be for >the accidental techies that get sucked (imagine a black hole) into the job >in their respective organizations. > >So far, I've been making a list of subjects to include. Here's just a >small start: > >Computer Basics (what is a CPU, memory, hard disk, I/O, video card, etc.) >Installing Linux (we have a lab with ~20 PCs, might as well give them some >behind the wheel). >Access Control (passwd, group, file system security) >GUI vs Command line (including a tutorial in Vi) > >Available packages: > OpenOffice > Samba > E-mail Serving > Printer Configuration > Networking (DHCP, Routing, Subnets, etc.) > Apache, PHP, MySQL, Postgres, Perl, etc. > Firewalling & Gateways (SNAT) & the Internet > Backups > >Hardware: > Modems > CD-RW > >At this rate, It'll be a 4 year course. > >Any suggestions? Frequent subjects at InstallFests? Text books? >Remember, some of these folks are pretty low end techies, so simpler is >probably better. > >Maybe we can tie the class in with an installfest? > > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Mon Oct 6 09:05:36 2003 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux TV/Video Capture In-Reply-To: <2075.192.1.1.23.1065330986.squirrel@dccmn.com> References: <2075.192.1.1.23.1065330986.squirrel@dccmn.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Oct 2003, Wayne Johnson wrote: > Both support the 640x480 I targeted as a minimum resolution. Being NTSC > is 525 line interlaced, the extra 720x480 the Hauppage supports doesn't > seem justified by the extra cost. The reason the Hauppauge is so much more money is it's also got a hardware mpeg encoder - *very* important if you want to do tv recording on a slower (ie, <1ghz) machine. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From wdtj at yahoo.com Mon Oct 6 09:29:02 2003 From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:51 2005 Subject: [Nonprofit_tech_talk] RE: [TCLUG] Using Linux for Small Businesses & Non-profits Class In-Reply-To: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B18B@ipserver2.interplastic.com> Message-ID: <20031006142902.95196.qmail@web13905.mail.yahoo.com> IMHO, the reason most of these people don't use Linux is because they don't know how. And the argument that we shouldn't teach them because they don't know how is a bit circular. We've used Linux for several years at Heritage Christian Academy and they have picked it up pretty well. It's based on this experience that we hoped we could share with the rest of the community. It is true, that there is a learning curve for Linux. There is a curve to setting up an NT server as well. That curve is becoming much faster for Linux, and much slower for Windows. I think Linux is becoming much more of an attractive option to these cost conscious organizations. --- Ryan Ware wrote: > Not to be a wet blanket, but most of those people being sucked into > support > roles are sucked into a mostly or completely Microsoft environment. > Small > businesses typically have not been your *nix users for a number of > reasons. > Originally Unix was costly, Microsoft was cheaper. Microsoft was > easier to > use. Only recently has there been desktop ready for the average user a > cheap Unix variant (Linux). You'd be better off helping them with > their > Windows skills and teaching them how about the possibility of saving > some > dough by using Open Office instead of office, on Windows. Then later > show > them some of the other things Open Source and Linux have going for them > that > might allow them to save more money. > > One thing to consider too. How successful in these businesses will a > "switch" campaign be received or even useful to them if they already > have > say an NT environment in place with exchange that runs acceptably, that > they > are comfortable with and don't need to upgrade? > > Your class might be better for people that don't have much invested in > an > existing environment. I don't see OS/Linux as a natural fit for these > small > companies unless they just hire their adminning out, as a lot of them > won't > have full time "IT" guys anyway. The person likely to be stuck in this > support role is looking for the easiest way out, not necessarily the > most > technically superior because he has "real" job duties too besides > keeping > the computers running. > > Ryan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Wayne Johnson > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org; nonprofit_tech_talk@communityforum.net > Cc: dcoats@mlla.org > Sent: 10/5/03 12:42 AM > Subject: [TCLUG] Using Linux for Small Businesses & Non-profits Class > > My partner and I have been tossing around the idea of having a class on > "Using Linux for Small Businesses & Non-profits". The focus will be > for > the accidental techies that get sucked (imagine a black hole) into the > job > in their respective organizations. > > So far, I've been making a list of subjects to include. Here's just a > small start: > > Computer Basics (what is a CPU, memory, hard disk, I/O, video card, > etc.) > Installing Linux (we have a lab with ~20 PCs, might as well give them > some > behind the wheel). > Access Control (passwd, group, file system security) > GUI vs Command line (including a tutorial in Vi) > > Available packages: > OpenOffice > Samba > E-mail Serving > Printer Configuration > Networking (DHCP, Routing, Subnets, etc.) > Apache, PHP, MySQL, Postgres, Perl, etc. > Firewalling & Gateways (SNAT) & the Internet > Backups > > Hardware: > Modems > CD-RW > > At this rate, It'll be a 4 year course. > > Any suggestions? Frequent subjects at InstallFests? Text books? > Remember, some of these folks are pretty low end techies, so simpler is > probably better. > > Maybe we can tie the class in with an installfest? > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > ___________________________________ > Nonprofit_tech_talk mailing list is a service of MAP for Nonprofits > with partial funding support from the Greater Twin Cities United Way > and Tech Foundation. Opinions expressed on this list are those of the > individual author and not necessarily the opinion of MAP or the United > Way. > > Nonprofit_tech_talk mailing list > To post, send an email message to: > Nonprofit_tech_talk@communityforum.net > To change your options (including to unsubscribe), go to: http://www.communityforum.net/mailman/listinfo/nonprofit_tech_talk ===== --- Wayne Johnson, | There are two kinds of people: Those 3943 Penn Ave. N. | who say to God, "Thy will be done," Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, (612) 522-7003 | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Mon Oct 6 12:16:04 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] X Windows. In-Reply-To: <20031005131343.A21709@thinkunix.net> References: <3F805DCE.4080801@visi.com> <20031005131343.A21709@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <3F81A354.7010802@visi.com> I'm not going after anyone with this eMail it's just general angst! *< Ranting>* This is why I didn't want to use the "apt-get install afterstep" without knowing what is REALLY needed. For some reason it does not install what is needed to run X windows, without knowing WTF is going on internally it will never work. Obviously some configuration or inside knowledge is needed before installing and running X windows and any window manager. Either a dependency for running X windows is not included with "afterstep" or it is assumed to be installed. ~~~ # afterstep AfterStep: can't open display # afterstep -d 0 AfterStep: can't open display # startx bash: startx: command not found # X bash: X: command not found ~~~ I know this is not a M$ installer but for Linux (any distribution) to even get close to the desktop it will need to be able to install and run _anything_ without fault. # apt-get remove afterstep It still leaves directories and files for me to manually remove, the unistall process needs to be complete. Freaking delete the files then the directory. I don't care who wrote apt-get they need to do the job right. ** Sam. Simplicity is in the eye of the beholder, after the the technical guy made it work. Scot Jenkins wrote: >Sam, >I'm thinking this is probably the easiest thing to do: > >apt-get install -s mozilla --OR-- >apt-get install -s afterstep > >the '-s' says to show what it would do without actually doing it. >both mozilla and afterstep will require X11. Once you see what it will >do, just rerun without the '-s' option and it will install what's >required. Debian rocks. > >other options: >tasksel, dselect, aptitude (my personal favorite) for selecting >individual packages. > > >Sam MacDonald wrote: > > >>I just installed Debian base on the machine that was a Redhat 6.X box. >>I was looking at the debian site trying to figure out how to do a >>minimal installation of X windows. Looking at all the packages under >>http://packages.debian.org/stable/x11/ confused me a bit. I looked at >>the howto and I went in to denial. I don't want every feature, >>application, etc,, that comes with Gnome or KDE. I really like >>Afterstep so that's the direction I want to go. I find that using a >>minimal set of tools lets me understand the internals of any system and >>reduces the clutter. To much stuff is just, to much stuff in my book. >>(KISS = Keep It Simple Sam) >> >>"Does anyone have or know of websites I can read that will help me >>better understand the internals of X windows?" I know I will need >>Xfree, Afterstep, and other components to make this work. X windows has >>just boggled my mind when it comes to configuration. I had times when >>it just doesn't work because I don't understand what to tweek to get it >>to run. >> >>What I presently have installed is Debian 2.2.20, ssh, samba, vlock, >>apache, mysql, joe, and php4. I want X windows so I can use a graphical >>HTML editor (unknown). Once X windows is installed I'll install Mozilla >>and thats about it. >> >>Eventually I want to have only Linux "servers" in the house and moving >>to the desktop when I can get more up to date hardware for my kid's so >>they can run Wine or other windows emulator for the games they like. I >>also need to be able to support the environment so it doesn't drive me >>crazy. >> >>I have these websites bookmarked for study. I have found having more >>then 1 source of information is important. Each community has it's own >>resources and ideas on how to do things that help in learning. >> >>http://www.x.org/ >>http://www.xfree86.org/ >>http://www.afterstep.org/ >> >> >>Thanks >>Sam. >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Mon Oct 6 12:25:49 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] X Windows. In-Reply-To: <20031005180905.GA32751@mail.el-swifto.com> References: <3F805DCE.4080801@visi.com> <20031005180905.GA32751@mail.el-swifto.com> Message-ID: <3F81A59D.1070102@visi.com> I know that but that is what I want. Having the latest and greatest is not always what is needed or wanted. The latest and greatest come with a price. Sometimes the latest and greatest require resources that just are not available when installing or running. Sometimes the latest and greatest just don't fit the hardware profile. My system is a P200mm, 64 mob RAM, 2.5 gig disk, ISA NC (Link 220 = one), ISA sound, and CPI video (old). New does not always mean better. Sam. John J. Trammell wrote: >On Sun, Oct 05, 2003 at 01:07:10PM -0500, Sam MacDonald wrote: > > >>What I presently have installed is Debian 2.2.20, >> >> > >Current Debian stable ("woody") is 3.0r1. Debian 2.x is *way* old. > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dru at druswanderings.net Mon Oct 6 12:38:24 2003 From: dru at druswanderings.net (The Wandering Dru) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] X Windows. In-Reply-To: <3F81A354.7010802@visi.com> References: <3F805DCE.4080801@visi.com> <20031005131343.A21709@thinkunix.net> <3F81A354.7010802@visi.com> Message-ID: <3F81A890.2000308@druswanderings.net> Sam MacDonald wrote: > > # apt-get remove afterstep > It still leaves directories and files for me to manually remove, the > unistall process needs to be complete. Freaking delete the files then > the directory. I don't care who wrote apt-get they need to do the job > right. > ** apt-get purge afterstep This will remove directories and config data too. To install just XFree86: apt-get install x-window-system -- The Wandering Dru http://druswanderings.net <--- Things 'n' Such Get nifty TCLUG merchandise at the TCLUG Store! http://www.cafeshops.com/tclug _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Mon Oct 6 12:40:14 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] X Windows. Message-ID: X isn't running. X still isn't running. startx isn't in your path (and may not be installed). X isn't in your path (and may not be installed). As I understand it, 'startx' is usually a script that starts X and then your window manager (like afterstep). The 'afterstep' package may not depend on the 'X11' package (like in a server for many X Terminals configuration), so you may have to install it in addition to afterstep. Try running 'locate startx' or 'locate X' and use the whole path on the command line. Try to use some 'apt' related tool to see if there are any X11 related programs installed on the machine. On 'apt-get's side: Doing the job "right" means different things to different folks. Are you sure 'apt-get' does not have an option to totally delete all the files and folders related to a package (I don't know)? Do you think 'total deleting all files and folders' is a safe default behavior for a package management tool (I do not)? >>> smac@visi.com 10/06/03 12:16PM >>> *< Ranting>* ~~~ # afterstep AfterStep: can't open display # afterstep -d 0 AfterStep: can't open display # startx bash: startx: command not found # X bash: X: command not found ~~~ I know this is not a M$ installer but for Linux (any distribution) to even get close to the desktop it will need to be able to install and run _anything_ without fault. # apt-get remove afterstep It still leaves directories and files for me to manually remove, the unistall process needs to be complete. Freaking delete the files then the directory. I don't care who wrote apt-get they need to do the job right. ** _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From william.layer at comcast.net Mon Oct 6 12:25:07 2003 From: william.layer at comcast.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] X Windows. In-Reply-To: <3F81A354.7010802@visi.com> References: <3F805DCE.4080801@visi.com> <20031005131343.A21709@thinkunix.net> <3F81A354.7010802@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031006122507.6039eea0.william.layer@comcast.net> On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:16:04 -0500 Sam MacDonald wrote: > # afterstep > AfterStep: can't open display > > # afterstep -d 0 > AfterStep: can't open display > > # startx > bash: startx: command not found > > # X > bash: X: command not found Err, apt wasn't smart enough to determine that X is required for Afterstep? Sounds like the base X install is just missing. And what was your problem with Slackware again? ;) -L _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Mon Oct 6 12:53:46 2003 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] X Windows. In-Reply-To: <3F81A59D.1070102@visi.com> References: <3F805DCE.4080801@visi.com> <20031005180905.GA32751@mail.el-swifto.com> <3F81A59D.1070102@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031006175346.GA3094@mail.el-swifto.com> On Mon, Oct 06, 2003 at 12:25:49PM -0500, Sam MacDonald wrote: > Having the latest and greatest is not always what is needed or wanted. > The latest and greatest come with a price. Sometimes the latest and > greatest require resources that just are not available when installing > or running. Dude, you're preaching to the choir here. ;^) http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/2003-August/058359.html > New does not always mean better. Amen, but older does not always mean better as well. -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hpenner at cbca.com Mon Oct 6 12:52:33 2003 From: hpenner at cbca.com (Harry Penner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] X Windows. In-Reply-To: <3F81A890.2000308@druswanderings.net> References: <3F805DCE.4080801@visi.com> <20031005131343.A21709@thinkunix.net> <3F81A354.7010802@visi.com> <3F81A890.2000308@druswanderings.net> Message-ID: <1065462752.771.34.camel@quack> Actually I think it's apt-get --purge remove afterstep Leaving the config files around after uninstalling a package is a very sane default. If you use dselect you'll get recommendations as well as hard dependencies. I bet you'd have been prompted for an X server. -hp3 On Mon, 2003-10-06 at 12:38, The Wandering Dru wrote: > Sam MacDonald wrote: > > > > > # apt-get remove afterstep > > It still leaves directories and files for me to manually remove, the > > unistall process needs to be complete. Freaking delete the files then > > the directory. I don't care who wrote apt-get they need to do the job > > right. > > ** > > apt-get purge afterstep > > This will remove directories and config data too. > > To install just XFree86: > > apt-get install x-window-system > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kbongers at infinetivity.com Mon Oct 6 13:12:24 2003 From: kbongers at infinetivity.com (Karl Bongers) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] X Windows. In-Reply-To: <3F81A354.7010802@visi.com> References: <3F805DCE.4080801@visi.com> <20031005131343.A21709@thinkunix.net> <3F81A354.7010802@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031006181224.GA1806@karl> Mr. Old Potatoe Head, Sam, Calm down, we'll talk you off that ledge! Don't jump!. You can get info on a pkg not installed with: apt-cache show pkg-name You can find a master cross reference list of all files and what package they come from in: cdrom or debian ftp site/dists/stable/Contents-i386.gz I find this list to be very helpful, so you can search for /startx and find that startx is part of x11/xbase-clients. Do you have xbase-clients installed?(dpkg -l | grep xbase-client). What files are in afterstep?(dpkg -L afterstep). Hope that helps, Karl. On Mon, Oct 06, 2003 at 12:16:04PM -0500, Sam MacDonald wrote: > I'm not going after anyone with this eMail it's just general angst! > > *< Ranting>* > This is why I didn't want to use the "apt-get install afterstep" without > knowing what is REALLY needed. For some reason it does not install what > is needed to run X windows, without knowing WTF is going on internally > it will never work. > Obviously some configuration or inside know edge is needed before > installing and running X windows and any window manager. Either a > dependency for running X windows is not included with "afterstep" or it > is assumed to be installed. > ~~~ > # afterstep > AfterStep: can't open display > > # afterstep -d 0 > AfterStep: can't open display > > # startx > bash: startx: command not found > > # X > bash: X: command not found > ~~~ > I know this is not a M$ installer but for Linux (any distribution) to > even get close to the desktop it will need to be able to install and run > _anything_ without fault. > > # apt-get remove afterstep > It still leaves directories and files for me to manually remove, the > unistall process needs to be complete. Freaking delete the files then > the directory. I don't care who wrote apt-get they need to do the job > right. > ** > > Sam. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Mon Oct 6 13:25:37 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] X Windows. In-Reply-To: <1065462752.771.34.camel@quack> References: <3F805DCE.4080801@visi.com> <20031005131343.A21709@thinkunix.net> <3F81A354.7010802@visi.com> <3F81A890.2000308@druswanderings.net> <1065462752.771.34.camel@quack> Message-ID: <3F81B3A1.80909@visi.com> atp-get -h does not show "--purge" Sound like an undocumented "fdisk /mbr" kind of thing. Sam. Harry Penner wrote: >Actually I think it's > >apt-get --purge remove afterstep > >Leaving the config files around after uninstalling a package is a very >sane default. > >If you use dselect you'll get recommendations as well as hard >dependencies. I bet you'd have been prompted for an X server. > >-hp3 > >On Mon, 2003-10-06 at 12:38, The Wandering Dru wrote: > > >>Sam MacDonald wrote: >> >> >> >>># apt-get remove afterstep >>>It still leaves directories and files for me to manually remove, the >>>unistall process needs to be complete. Freaking delete the files then >>>the directory. I don't care who wrote apt-get they need to do the job >>>right. >>>** >>> >>> >>apt-get purge afterstep >> >>This will remove directories and config data too. >> >>To install just XFree86: >> >>apt-get install x-window-system >> >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dcoats at heritagemail.org Mon Oct 6 13:12:52 2003 From: dcoats at heritagemail.org (Pastor Doug Coats) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Using Linux for Small Businesses & Non-profits Class In-Reply-To: <20031005224017.GG9284@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: I feel drawn into this discussion since I am the IS Admin at Heritage Christian Academy Wayne has made mention of and I believe there are many more out there like me. My first job at the school is Information Systems Administration. I am a Pastor by training. You can imagine how many tech classes I had in my schooling. You can probably also imagine what a small private school could offer to a trained IS person. Very few of you would take a second glance at my salary. I do hold a number of other positions at the school - I teach High school Bible classes and computer electives. I even drive one of our buses. Why do I do this? - I believe in the mission of the school. Why do I think others would take the time to learn Linux? - Because they believe in the mission of their organizations. I believe that at HCA we are coming to a cross roads. We have approximately 100 computers in use, 60 for staff and 40 for students. Probably 80+% don't meet the minimum requirements for XP. If I remember correctly, next summer Microsoft will stop supporting Win98 which is what 98% of our computers run on. As a non profit we can not afford to throw anything away that works. Since the majority of my staff uses their computer for word processing and email I may be "forced" to start changing over our older PC's to Linux. Even if we were to receive a number of newer machines as donations we still could not afford the OS's for them. So over the past 4 years HCA has gone from 8 office computers on a peer-to-peer network with no internet access with myself only being part-time at the school. to having 100 computer all with internet access, a Gateway/Firewall/Router server, two file serves (one for the staff & one for the students), and an Email/Web server. All the servers are running Linux by the way. I started with no Linux experience to now maintaining and managing all of them with less and less help from Wayne. I do not think I am alone in going down this path. I also think others would gladly follow if they had someone like Wayne in their lives. I simply want to offer to someone else what Wayne has offered to our school - someone willing to help them to get up and going. So I ask two things: First, if you know of an organization that could use your expertise and you believe in their cause, please offer it. Second, if you know of any way you can help us, suggestions, resources, interested parties, please pass that along. Doug Coats _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net Mon Oct 6 13:21:41 2003 From: scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] X Windows. In-Reply-To: <3F81B3A1.80909@visi.com>; from smac@visi.com on Mon, Oct 06, 2003 at 01:25:37PM -0500 References: <3F805DCE.4080801@visi.com> <20031005131343.A21709@thinkunix.net> <3F81A354.7010802@visi.com> <3F81A890.2000308@druswanderings.net> <1065462752.771.34.camel@quack> <3F81B3A1.80909@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031006132141.A3961@thinkunix.net> Sam MacDonald wrote: > atp-get -h > does not show "--purge" 'man apt-get' does, it's documented. -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Mon Oct 6 13:14:54 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (webmaster@mn-linux.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] A new classified ad at TCLUG Classifieds Message-ID: <200310061814.h96IEsY00652@crusader.real-time.com> A new TCLUG classified ad at was placed Mon Oct 6 13:14:54 2003. Name: Bill Layer Category: computerwanted Subject: Geek roommate wanted Ad: Ok, there isn't a decent category for this, but it's aimed at the TCLUG, so here we go.. Wanted: Roommate at the Legendre compound, preferably a geek, M/F, over 21 years old. Space requirements & rent negotiable. Cable internet on 10/100 LAN here, plenty of power, excellent stereo, big kitchen, plenty of living space. I need a roommate to help cover the cost of living here. Imagine that. To view this and other ads at TCLUG Classifieds, please visit: http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/classifieds.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hpenner at cbca.com Mon Oct 6 12:55:43 2003 From: hpenner at cbca.com (Harry Penner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] X Windows. In-Reply-To: <3F81A59D.1070102@visi.com> References: <3F805DCE.4080801@visi.com> <20031005180905.GA32751@mail.el-swifto.com> <3F81A59D.1070102@visi.com> Message-ID: <1065462943.771.38.camel@quack> Maybe you have the virtual frame buffer X server installed? That counts as an X server even though it can't really display anything. Good for headless app servers and all that. -hp3 On Mon, 2003-10-06 at 12:25, Sam MacDonald wrote: > I know that but that is what I want. > > Having the latest and greatest is not always what is needed or wanted. > The latest and greatest come with a price. Sometimes the latest and > greatest require resources that just are not available when installing > or running. > > Sometimes the latest and greatest just don't fit the hardware profile. > My system is a P200mm, 64 mob RAM, 2.5 gig disk, ISA NC (Link 220 = > one), ISA sound, and CPI video (old). > > New does not always mean better. > > Sam. > > > John J. Trammell wrote: > > >On Sun, Oct 05, 2003 at 01:07:10PM -0500, Sam MacDonald wrote: > > > > > >>What I presently have installed is Debian 2.2.20, > >> > >> > > > >Current Debian stable ("woody") is 3.0r1. Debian 2.x is *way* old. > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kent at structural-wood.com Mon Oct 6 13:44:00 2003 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] X Windows. References: <3F805DCE.4080801@visi.com> <20031005131343.A21709@thinkunix.net> <3F81A354.7010802@visi.com> <20031006122507.6039eea0.william.layer@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3F81B7F0.8090201@structural-wood.com> Bill Layer wrote: > On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:16:04 -0500 > Sam MacDonald wrote: > > >># afterstep >>AfterStep: can't open display >> >># afterstep -d 0 >>AfterStep: can't open display >> >># startx >>bash: startx: command not found >> >># X >>bash: X: command not found > > > Err, apt wasn't smart enough to determine that X is required for Afterstep? Sounds like the base X install is just missing. > > And what was your problem with Slackware again? ;) > > -L > X is not required for Afterstep. If you have X-Terminals hanging off a server, you don't want X, but you might want Afterstep. Kent _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Mon Oct 6 15:02:22 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Using Linux for Small Businesses & Non-profits Class In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F81CA4E.5080406@visi.com> Pastor Doug Coats wrote: >I feel drawn into this discussion since I am the IS Admin at Heritage >Christian Academy Wayne has made mention of and I believe there are many >more out there like me. > >My first job at the school is Information Systems Administration. I am a >Pastor by training. You can imagine how many tech classes I had in my >schooling. You can probably also imagine what a small private school could >offer to a trained IS person. Very few of you would take a second glance at >my salary. I do hold a number of other positions at the school - I teach >High school Bible classes and computer electives. I even drive one of our >buses. Why do I do this? - I believe in the mission of the school. Why do >I think others would take the time to learn Linux? - Because they believe in >the mission of their organizations. > >I believe that at HCA we are coming to a cross roads. We have approximately >100 computers in use, 60 for staff and 40 for students. Probably 80+% don't >meet the minimum requirements for XP. If I remember correctly, next summer >Microsoft will stop supporting Win98 which is what 98% of our computers run >on. As a non profit we can not afford to throw anything away that works. >Since the majority of my staff uses their computer for word processing and >email I may be "forced" to start changing over our older PC's to Linux. >Even if we were to receive a number of newer machines as donations we still >could not afford the OS's for them. > >So over the past 4 years HCA has gone from 8 office computers on a >peer-to-peer network with no internet access with myself only being >part-time at the school. to having 100 computer all with internet access, a >Gateway/Firewall/Router server, two file serves (one for the staff & one for >the students), and an Email/Web server. All the servers are running Linux >by the way. I started with no Linux experience to now maintaining and >managing all of them with less and less help from Wayne. > >I do not think I am alone in going down this path. I also think others >would gladly follow if they had someone like Wayne in their lives. I simply >want to offer to someone else what Wayne has offered to our school - someone >willing to help them to get up and going. > >So I ask two things: First, if you know of an organization that could use >your expertise and you believe in their cause, please offer it. Second, if >you know of any way you can help us, suggestions, resources, interested >parties, please pass that along. > >Doug Coats > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Mon Oct 6 15:04:20 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] X Windows. In-Reply-To: <20031006132141.A3961@thinkunix.net> References: <3F805DCE.4080801@visi.com> <20031005131343.A21709@thinkunix.net> <3F81A354.7010802@visi.com> <3F81A890.2000308@druswanderings.net> <1065462752.771.34.camel@quack> <3F81B3A1.80909@visi.com> <20031006132141.A3961@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <3F81CAC4.1080304@visi.com> What version of apt-get I have 0.5.4 Sam. Scot Jenkins wrote: >Sam MacDonald wrote: > > >>atp-get -h >>does not show "--purge" >> >> > >'man apt-get' does, it's documented. > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Mon Oct 6 15:32:50 2003 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] X Windows. In-Reply-To: <3F81CAC4.1080304@visi.com> References: <3F805DCE.4080801@visi.com> <20031005131343.A21709@thinkunix.net> <3F81A354.7010802@visi.com> <3F81A890.2000308@druswanderings.net> <1065462752.771.34.camel@quack> <3F81B3A1.80909@visi.com> <20031006132141.A3961@thinkunix.net> <3F81CAC4.1080304@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031006153250.A9396@baker.space.umn.edu> On Mon, Oct 06, 2003 at 03:04:20PM -0500, Sam MacDonald wrote: > What version of apt-get > > I have 0.5.4 Its in the man page for 5.4 - I still have 0.5.4 on a box and I checked. There are a lot of other options in the man page that aren't in the --help page either. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Mon Oct 6 17:40:33 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] distro server In-Reply-To: <1065127609.1026.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1065127609.1026.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <3F81EF61.9090401@eworld3.net> David, Thanks again for donating this computer. I just want to confirm that you removed the tape drive and the SCSI controller. David Schiff wrote: > I Have an old Gateway 2000 server (full tower) that I could bring to the > Oct 4th LUG meeting on sat. > CPU is Pentium r 200MHz > Two Hard Drives 4.8GB & 30GB (ATA) > One 3Com 3c905 100BaseTX(Boomerang) ethernet card > Adataptec AHA-2940U/UW/D/AIC-7881U controller > Internal Seagate tape drive > Generic S3 VIRGE video card. > I know it's alittle on the slow and on the clunky side but it's got > plenty of room. If it will help the LUG I'll be glad to bring it. > I read the list and find I'm learning some good stuff from you guys. > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff rick@eworld3.net 952-929-1659 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Mon Oct 6 17:53:48 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Whoohoo! Message-ID: <20031006175348.0bfc4107.sfertch@real-time.com> Whoohoo! Got my Slack 9.1 subscription in the mail today, and attempted to install it on my desktop that's been having problems out sending out thru the wrong video head. Success! It works! I can see the full boot process and log in too! =) I just did the full install as a quick test rather than going thru all the packages. Now to configure and build it the way I want to! Happy Slackin' -- Shawn The difficult we do today; the impossible take a little longer. Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kbongers at infinetivity.com Mon Oct 6 19:34:55 2003 From: kbongers at infinetivity.com (Karl Bongers) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] X Windows. In-Reply-To: <3F80CC22.8090005@visi.com> References: <3F805DCE.4080801@visi.com> <20031005131343.A21709@thinkunix.net> <3F80CC22.8090005@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031007003455.GA545@duron.turboland.com> On Sun, Oct 05, 2003 at 08:57:54PM -0500, Sam MacDonald wrote: > See, I'm trying to know what I'm doing before I do it. I like apt-get > but I want to know what it does before it does it, so to speak. I don't > want to just slap everything on the machine and then find out where it > gets put. Finding out after it's installed makes it difficult to > determine purpose and document. You could do apt-get install --download-only pkg This will download the .deb file to /var/cache/apt/archives Then you can go look at it. dpkg-deb can show a file listing, unpack it, etc. If you run mc you can just press F3 to view contents. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Tue Oct 7 00:47:07 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Somewhat OT] Good 1U Hardware for Linux Message-ID: <20031007004707.000062bd.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Hi list, A friend of mine runs an ISP on a Raq4 Cobalt box colocated somewhere in Virginia. He doesn't have a lot of sys admin expertise, so the Raq4 Admin interface is nice for his 75 or so virtual domains that he hosts. This server has software that is horribly outdated (sendmail/bind/etc) and the Cobalt Linux OS seems to be dieing out so we're looking for a new solution. The ideal server: A 1U rack mounted server with 500 MB to 1GB memory, 80 or more GB disk, Network, CDROM, Video out (no serial cable installs please!) and a license that allows me to install/configure any version of linux that I want to on it. (most likely SuSE, Debian, or Slack) The most important part is this last part. The server will be co-located in Virginia, but beforehand we will wipe the drive and install an OS and the software required. I want full control over the software (apache/mysql/php/qmail/etc) and I have my own "control panel" so he can easily adminster new domains. Any suggestions on good hardware that will do the trick? Thanks, Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Tue Oct 7 02:04:49 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Somewhat OT] Good 1U Hardware for Linux References: <20031007004707.000062bd.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: <001501c38ca1$4c9bad40$0201a8c0@brinstar> Josh Trutwin writes: > A 1U rack mounted server with 500 MB to 1GB memory, 80 or more GB > disk, Network, CDROM, Video out (no serial cable installs please!) > and a license that allows me to install/configure any version of > linux that I want to on it. If you think you need a license to install software on computer hardware that you OWN, then you are seriously misinformed. If you own the hardware, you can do whatever you want with it. Leased hardware might be a different issue, depending on your contract. In fact, shrink-wrap or click-through licenses for software you purchase in a store are also invalid, but that's a different topic. > I want full control over the software (apache/mysql/php/qmail/etc) > and I have my own "control panel" so he can easily adminster new > domains. Webmin seems to be popular. There are also a number of cheap integrated control panels available. Several products have their own web interface. And, alternatively, you could roll your own. qmail: http://www.vmailmgr.org/ http://www.inter7.com/vpopmail.html MyDNS: http://mydns.bboy.net/ (admin.php included) MySQL: http://www.phpmyadmin.net/ Apache doesn't have a good control panel, unfortunately, but there is more to setting up a website than simply adding it to the web server. My suggestion is to write a three line shell script that creates the website directory, chowns it to the proper user, then creates a symlink for Apache. You can use Apache's mass virtual hosting feature and never have to touch the Apache config when creating sites: VirtualDocumentRoot /etc/sites/%0/ You would then place symlinks in /etc/sites that are the hostnames of the sites. For example: /etc/sites/www.example.com -> /home/bob/web/www.example.com > Any suggestions on good hardware that will do the trick? We buy a lot of our hardware at mwave.com. They have good prices, good service and a decent selection. You can order hardware assembled and tested from them for an extra fee. We use a number of the SuperMicro SC811 cases. It is a good cheap 1U case. Stay away from hot processors in a 1U (or any rackmount case, really). Also be aware of what fits and what doesn't. 1Us are tiny. Don't expect to use any expansion cards. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From myok at ogzr.org Tue Oct 7 06:56:33 2003 From: myok at ogzr.org (Carl Patten) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Somewhat OT] Good 1U Hardware for Linux In-Reply-To: <20031007004707.000062bd.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> References: <20031007004707.000062bd.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: <1065527793.1750.4.camel@herbie.doomnode.net> On Tue, 2003-10-07 at 00:47, Josh Trutwin wrote: > Hi list, > > A friend of mine runs an ISP on a Raq4 Cobalt box colocated somewhere in Virginia. He doesn't have a lot of sys admin expertise, so the Raq4 Admin interface is nice for his 75 or so virtual domains that he hosts. This server has software that is horribly outdated (sendmail/bind/etc) and the Cobalt Linux OS seems to be dieing out so we're looking for a new solution. > > The ideal server: > > A 1U rack mounted server with 500 MB to 1GB memory, 80 or more GB disk, Network, CDROM, Video out (no serial cable installs please!) and a license that allows me to install/configure any version of linux that I want to on it. (most likely SuSE, Debian, or Slack) The most important part is this last part. The server will be co-located in Virginia, but beforehand we will wipe the drive and install an OS and the software required. > > I want full control over the software (apache/mysql/php/qmail/etc) and I have my own "control panel" so he can easily adminster new domains. > > Any suggestions on good hardware that will do the trick? > Dell PowerEdge 1650 1U servers have worked flawlessly in my environment for over a year. I ordered the first one pre-loaded with Red Hat Linux 7.3. It has 3 40-gig drives in a hardware RAID5 config so effectively it has 80 gigs of available drive space. -- Carl Patten _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Tue Oct 7 06:51:19 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Somewhat OT] Good 1U Hardware for Linux In-Reply-To: <001501c38ca1$4c9bad40$0201a8c0@brinstar> References: <20031007004707.000062bd.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> <001501c38ca1$4c9bad40$0201a8c0@brinstar> Message-ID: <20031007065119.3367be2f.sfertch@real-time.com> On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 02:04:49 -0500 "David Phillips" wrote: >If you think you need a license to install software on computer hardware >that you OWN, then you are seriously misinformed. If you own the hardware, >you can do whatever you want with it. Leased hardware might be a different >issue, depending on your contract. > > In fact, shrink-wrap or click-through licenses for software you > purchase in a store are also invalid, but that's a different topic. > David, can you expand on this? It's early in the morning, and my head's spinning so I'm not thinking straight. The top makes sense, it's the second paragraph that's confusining me....d Thanks. -- Shawn The difficult we do today; the impossible take a little longer. Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Tue Oct 7 07:25:18 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Somewhat OT] Good 1U Hardware for Linux In-Reply-To: <20031007004707.000062bd.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> References: <20031007004707.000062bd.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: <3F82B0AE.7070301@visi.com> New or used hardware? Sam. Josh Trutwin wrote: >Hi list, > >A friend of mine runs an ISP on a Raq4 Cobalt box colocated somewhere in Virginia. He doesn't have a lot of sys admin expertise, so the Raq4 Admin interface is nice for his 75 or so virtual domains that he hosts. This server has software that is horribly outdated (sendmail/bind/etc) and the Cobalt Linux OS seems to be dieing out so we're looking for a new solution. > >The ideal server: > >A 1U rack mounted server with 500 MB to 1GB memory, 80 or more GB disk, Network, CDROM, Video out (no serial cable installs please!) and a license that allows me to install/configure any version of linux that I want to on it. (most likely SuSE, Debian, or Slack) The most important part is this last part. The server will be co-located in Virginia, but beforehand we will wipe the drive and install an OS and the software required. > >I want full control over the software (apache/mysql/php/qmail/etc) and I have my own "control panel" so he can easily adminster new domains. > >Any suggestions on good hardware that will do the trick? > >Thanks, > >Josh > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Tue Oct 7 07:25:49 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Somewhat OT] Good 1U Hardware for Linux In-Reply-To: <20031007065119.3367be2f.sfertch@real-time.com> References: <20031007004707.000062bd.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> <001501c38ca1$4c9bad40$0201a8c0@brinstar> <20031007065119.3367be2f.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: <3F82B0CD.6000601@visi.com> I'd be interested in hearing that as well. Shawn wrote: >On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 02:04:49 -0500 >"David Phillips" wrote: > > > >>If you think you need a license to install software on computer hardware >>that you OWN, then you are seriously misinformed. If you own the hardware, >>you can do whatever you want with it. Leased hardware might be a different >>issue, depending on your contract. >> >>In fact, shrink-wrap or click-through licenses for software you >>purchase in a store are also invalid, but that's a different topic. >> >> >> > >David, can you expand on this? It's early in the morning, and my head's spinning so I'm not thinking straight. The top makes sense, it's the second paragraph that's confusining me....d > >Thanks. > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Tue Oct 7 08:57:08 2003 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debugging procmail recipes Message-ID: <16258.50740.175616.468272@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Does anyone have a bang-up approach for debugging .procmailrc files? I'd love something that would take a message file and step through the recipes, one after another, checking for matches and reporting them as they happen. I'm sure I'm dreaming, but it seemed worth asking.... R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Tue Oct 7 08:57:14 2003 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Somewhat OT] Good 1U Hardware for Linux In-Reply-To: <20031007004707.000062bd.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> References: <20031007004707.000062bd.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Josh Trutwin wrote: > A 1U rack mounted server with 500 MB to 1GB memory, 80 or more GB disk, > Network, CDROM, Video out (no serial cable installs please!) and a > license that allows me to install/configure any version of linux that I > want to on it. (most likely SuSE, Debian, or Slack) The most important > part is this last part. The server will be co-located in Virginia, but > beforehand we will wipe the drive and install an OS and the software > required. I've had decent experience with Dell's 1U boxes (don't have to pay the M$ tax anymore on their server stuff, at least from what I've found); if you want cheap, you can go their entry-level 1U server (used to be the 350, I think it's a 650 or 850 now) with 2 IDE disks and add a 3ware RAID controller. Only problem with that is you don't get hot-swap disks. I've also heard good things about Penguin's 1U boxes; no personal experience with them yet. Otherwise, you can always build your own.. www.newegg.com is my personal favorite vendor. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com Tue Oct 7 09:01:15 2003 From: Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com (Lansing, Dan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Whoohoo! Message-ID: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D3726@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> Got mine too....brought it to work with me to play between calls....only to find the cdrom on my laptop is unhappy with me....no medium found.....it makes me cry......tried several cds....no luck with any.....also slack sent me 2 copies....i will have to contact them to see if I got double billed.... Dan Lansing -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Shawn Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 5:54 PM To: TCLUG Subject: [TCLUG] Whoohoo! Whoohoo! Got my Slack 9.1 subscription in the mail today, and attempted to install it on my desktop that's been having problems out sending out thru the wrong video head. Success! It works! I can see the full boot process and log in too! =) I just did the full install as a quick test rather than going thru all the packages. Now to configure and build it the way I want to! Happy Slackin' -- Shawn The difficult we do today; the impossible take a little longer. Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Tue Oct 7 09:02:58 2003 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Recommendation for media player In-Reply-To: <20031002235158.GA1100@fandre.com> References: <20031002235158.GA1100@fandre.com> Message-ID: <16258.51090.288349.896756@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "CF" == Clay Fandre writes: CF> I'm planning on building a mp3/ogg player out of an old P-233 CF> I have laying around for my garage. I still haven't decided if CF> I'm going to use a VGA monitor or just a Wyse terminal. Any CF> recommendations on software to run? Searching freshmeat CF> turned up quite a few apps/distros that do this. CF> It would be really nice if it were a bootable CD, like CF> Movix. I haven't tried it yet, but it looks pretty cool. CF> http://movix.sourceforge.net/ CF> But before I started playing around with all the options I CF> thought I'd get some ideas first. I know this is the suggestion of the weak, but I wanted something like this and, after some experiments, I ended up putting my old P166 with the big disk drive up in my attic, and buying a slimp3 player to sit next to my amp. Quiet, you can use it w/o turning a TV on, etc. R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jasonj at igi.com Tue Oct 7 09:08:23 2003 From: jasonj at igi.com (Jason Jorgensen) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Somewhat OT] Good 1U Hardware for Linux In-Reply-To: <20031007004707.000062bd.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> References: <20031007004707.000062bd.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: <3F82C8D7.5010107@igi.com> I recently got a 1U Dell PowerEdge 1750 with dual xeon, 3 SCSI Drives in RAID5, dual gigabit onboard ethernet, video out, cdrom, floppy, dual power supply. It took a little doing, but I got debian installed on it. The drivers for the raid controller and network cards were the problem since I was trying to do a net install. :) But I got it going and could help someone else interested in getting Debian to run on a 1750. No M$ charges for this machine. There is a console port and an option in the bios to redirect to console port, but I have not played with this at all yet so I dont know what it does exactly. Off Topic Xeon testing on this machine Kernel Compile times j1: 20 minutes j2: 12 minutes j4: 8 minutes So the hyperthreading seems to help, not as much as a real 3rd and 4th processor, but it does help. Josh Trutwin wrote: >Hi list, > >A friend of mine runs an ISP on a Raq4 Cobalt box colocated somewhere in Virginia. He doesn't have a lot of sys admin expertise, so the Raq4 Admin interface is nice for his 75 or so virtual domains that he hosts. This server has software that is horribly outdated (sendmail/bind/etc) and the Cobalt Linux OS seems to be dieing out so we're looking for a new solution. > >The ideal server: > >A 1U rack mounted server with 500 MB to 1GB memory, 80 or more GB disk, Network, CDROM, Video out (no serial cable installs please!) and a license that allows me to install/configure any version of linux that I want to on it. (most likely SuSE, Debian, or Slack) The most important part is this last part. The server will be co-located in Virginia, but beforehand we will wipe the drive and install an OS and the software required. > >I want full control over the software (apache/mysql/php/qmail/etc) and I have my own "control panel" so he can easily adminster new domains. > >Any suggestions on good hardware that will do the trick? > >Thanks, > >Josh > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nate at refried.org Tue Oct 7 09:13:25 2003 From: nate at refried.org (nate@refried.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debugging procmail recipes In-Reply-To: <16258.50740.175616.468272@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <16258.50740.175616.468272@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <20031007141325.GA12886@refried.org> On Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 08:57:08AM -0500, rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: > Does anyone have a bang-up approach for debugging .procmailrc files? > > I'd love something that would take a message file and step through the > recipes, one after another, checking for matches and reporting them as > they happen. > > I'm sure I'm dreaming, but it seemed worth asking.... You're not dreaming. You just need these two lines in your .procmailrc. VERBOSE=on LOGFILE=$MAILDIR/procmail.log Put the log file wherever you want. You'll get some pretty verbose output so be sure to turn it off once you have everything working again. Nate _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Tue Oct 7 09:17:10 2003 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Using Linux for Small Businesses & Non-profits Class In-Reply-To: <006001c38b3c$62a2a230$0201a8c0@brinstar> References: <2322.192.1.1.23.1065332542.squirrel@dccmn.com> <006001c38b3c$62a2a230$0201a8c0@brinstar> Message-ID: <16258.51942.103194.578900@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "David" == David Phillips writes: David> Wayne Johnson writes: >> Installing Linux (we have a lab with ~20 PCs, might as well >> give them some behind the wheel). David> This is a problem. What distro do you use? Do any of the David> distros with an easy installer offer a free, automatic David> system for security updates? With Debian, you could easily David> setup security updates to run nightly from cron. David> Unfortunately, Debian does not have the easiest installer. Mandrake urpmi makes for a pretty easy, automatic system for security updates. Sadly, (1) configuring urpmi requires a plunge into the command-line, and often requires multiple tries (mirrors aren't always available....) and (2) configuring urpmi for automatic updates requires grokking cron. I suppose someone could set this up in some kind of installer wrapper for easy use by newbies. Ideally, it would be good to do this in some way like Bastille, that makes it easy to understand what and why you're doing it so that eventually the user could do it him/herself from the cl. David> Another issue is the operating system becoming obsolete. David> Some companies such as Red Hat make their operating systems David> obsolete faster than even Microsoft. How does the user David> upgrade without reinstalling from scratch? Ideally, the David> operating systems needs a way to update itself from any David> version to any version with no user intervention besides a David> few questions. Groan. I don't think anyone has a good answer to this one. [Mandrake has a pretty good try, but if you have one of the closed-source video cards, it don't work...] >> Access Control (passwd, group, file system security) David> There is a lot more to UNIX security than just that. David> Understanding file permissions is almost useless without David> understanding process credentials. Why shouldn't things David> run as root? Why shouldn't all daemons run as "nobody"? David> If a process is compromised, what other files and processes David> can become compromised? There may be a lot more to security than that, but these people aren't professional sysadmins, and probably don't want to be. They probably should be trained with some minimal understanding, not what it takes to make them dangerous. >> GUI vs Command line (including a tutorial in Vi) [...snip...] I know this will evoke squawks, but I think you should teach a tiny bit of emacs. Why? Because you get emacs keybindings all over the place in the various shells. Then point them at some easy to use, but relatively crippled editor like something packaged with gnome or (my preference) KDE. [ok, start the religious war.] >> E-mail Serving David> Make sure to pick a secure MTA, such as qmail or Postfix. I suggest postfix. qmail has too many aspects that break the conventional Unix file structure for configurations, IMHO. If God had meant us to use /var/qmail/control, s/he wouldn't have given us /etc.... :-) >> Perl David> The thing for PHP also applies here, basically. Perl is David> not a good first language. If the user wants to learn Perl David> later, recommend a good book. Yup. Stay away from this puppy in semester 1. I'd second the suggestion of just avoiding programming languages. David> Yep. >> Any suggestions? David> Don't. Newbies should not be deploying machines on the David> Internet, period. Teaching them how to setup a Linux David> operating system for a desktop machine that will be behind David> a hardware NAT router is probably alright. The fact is that they WILL be doing this, whether they should or not. Harm mitigation seems like a reasonable thing to do. Teaching them how to set up a Linux desktop behind a router is a laudable goal, but it's a different goal. And if you figure out how to teach them to live with a world in which MS Office docs are the de facto standard, let me know! :-) David> Need an email server? Web hosting? Outsource it. If an David> organization can't afford $15 a month for that, they David> certainly can't afford to be deploying machines on the David> internet. David> Businesses exist to make money, not do something a certain David> way because you think it is cool (case in point: vi). Make David> sure a solution's total cost of ownership is cheaper than David> the alternatives. Software cost is usually a small factor. Recall that non-profits are part of the course audience. $15/month may not be insignificant for them. They tend to be cash-poor and labor-rich (at least relatively). Cheers, R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Tue Oct 7 09:18:45 2003 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Using Linux for Small Businesses & Non-profits Class In-Reply-To: <3329.192.1.1.23.1065368750.squirrel@dccmn.com> References: <2322.192.1.1.23.1065332542.squirrel@dccmn.com> <006001c38b3c$62a2a230$0201a8c0@brinstar> <3329.192.1.1.23.1065368750.squirrel@dccmn.com> Message-ID: <16258.52037.822261.635615@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Wayne" == Wayne Johnson writes: Wayne> David Phillips said: >> Wayne Johnson writes: >>> Installing Linux (we have a lab with ~20 PCs, might as well >>> give them some behind the wheel). >> This is a problem. What distro do you use? Do any of the >> distros with an easy installer offer a free, automatic system >> for security updates? With Debian, you could easily setup >> security updates to run nightly from ... Wayne> As far as distros, we were going to start them on Redhat Wayne> (easiest to install), with a quick overview of others. As Wayne> far as maintanance, Redhat is about as easy as others, Wayne> true, you do have to answer a survey every few months in Wayne> order to maintain their free up2date access, but I don't Wayne> think it's going to break anyone. Automatic updates are as Wayne> problematic as they are beneficial. Last week our Apache Wayne> stopped working when we picked up a perl update that Wayne> required matching changes to the httpd.conf file. The Wayne> httpd.conf file was not updated because it had local Wayne> changes. Mandrake's MandrakeUpdate has a reasonable approach to this, involving automagical diffing, but it DOES require you to understand the structure of the configuration file and it does NOT come with any on-line help. :-( _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jasonj at igi.com Tue Oct 7 09:31:34 2003 From: jasonj at igi.com (Jason Jorgensen) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Somewhat OT] Good 1U Hardware for Linux In-Reply-To: <20031007004707.000062bd.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> References: <20031007004707.000062bd.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: <3F82CE46.10004@igi.com> Somewhat off topic about the control panel. I wrote some software in perl to manage accounts for multiple domains. I havent exactly finished preparing the software for open source release, but it has been running in production enviroments for 2-3 years. I was recently told that I may open source the code GPL. I call it IAM, Interactive Account Manager, it has a perl web front end that needs a bit more work to be complete, but the system should handle any account that can be managed from a perl script. It uses perl plugins. So the system is very flexible and highly custom to your project. However that also means its difficult to install and perl plugins need to be written for your systems. It runs master server/client server with SSL communications between the servers and a one time password type auth. The advantage of my plugins is that I dont tell you how you should setup your system. Things like webmin, webcyrus, XAMS, and other web account managers is they work only in enviroments they define. Write the plugins to work with whatever system you prefer. If you like mysql auth for postfix/cyrus or ldap, or shadow, or gdbm files, or sasl, who cares it should stilll work. But someone has to know perl to write the plugins. The first IAM system I setup is currently running 5 domains 4 of which are ISPs. It handles several postfix/cyrus mail servers, proftpd user space for web pages, radius, samba accounts, some shell accounts, and some other misc type accounts. But it should handle any account that can be scripted with perl. And it should run anywhere perl will run. I have even had some success getting it to run on Windows Servers, though I havent finished any of the Win32 plugins I was making to manage windows users and resources through IAM. I need an excuse to do more work on it, could use some help with it, and I would be willing to help others set it up. It could be a piece of crap, but if anyone is interested let me know. (And if it is a piece of crap, someone let me know :) ) Josh Trutwin wrote: >Hi list, > >A friend of mine runs an ISP on a Raq4 Cobalt box colocated somewhere in Virginia. He doesn't have a lot of sys admin expertise, so the Raq4 Admin interface is nice for his 75 or so virtual domains that he hosts. This server has software that is horribly outdated (sendmail/bind/etc) and the Cobalt Linux OS seems to be dieing out so we're looking for a new solution. > >The ideal server: > >A 1U rack mounted server with 500 MB to 1GB memory, 80 or more GB disk, Network, CDROM, Video out (no serial cable installs please!) and a license that allows me to install/configure any version of linux that I want to on it. (most likely SuSE, Debian, or Slack) The most important part is this last part. The server will be co-located in Virginia, but beforehand we will wipe the drive and install an OS and the software required. > >I want full control over the software (apache/mysql/php/qmail/etc) and I have my own "control panel" so he can easily adminster new domains. > >Any suggestions on good hardware that will do the trick? > >Thanks, > >Josh > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jasonj at igi.com Tue Oct 7 09:47:12 2003 From: jasonj at igi.com (Jason Jorgensen) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux TV/Video Capture In-Reply-To: <2075.192.1.1.23.1065330986.squirrel@dccmn.com> References: <2075.192.1.1.23.1065330986.squirrel@dccmn.com> Message-ID: <3F82D1F0.6020603@igi.com> I use the WinTV- 250 in my MythTV box in my living room. I freakin love it! I plan on getting a few more of these cards since MythTV supports multiple tuners for recording multiple shows at once. MythTV is very feature rich already for only being at version 0.11 The onboard mpeg2 encoder chip takes ALOT of load off the main CPU. So if you want multiple tuners this saves on CPU usage a TON. MythTV supports networked slaves so you can watch live tv and recorded shows on other computers in your house even if they dont have tv tuners at all. So you want to keep the CPU usage as low as possible so it can serve data to multiple clients, and record shows without heavy load. Getting the WinTV card to work was a bit difficult, but was well worth it. It comes with a remote control that I do have working with LIRC. Like all my machines, this is a Debian box, there is a mythtv debian source for apt. I then installed mythtv on a few of my debian workstations around the house and can then watch from my computer monitor when I am not in the living room. I turned down the quality level a bit on the card, and it records about 1.2 Gig for an hour show. I am pretty happy around that level. When I get an Array for storage, I will turn the quality level up. Wayne Johnson wrote: >I'm looking to add video capture to my RH Linux box. I've been looking at >cards and come up with two that I think I like: > >Kworld TV Tuner, Video Capture card with Remote, Model KW-TV878RF >Price: 39.00 > >Hauppauge WinTV-PVR 250 Model# 980 PCI TV Tuner Card >Price: 145.00 > >Both support the 640x480 I targeted as a minimum resolution. Being NTSC >is 525 line interlaced, the extra 720x480 the Hauppage supports doesn't >seem justified by the extra cost. > >Anyone used these? Have recommendations? Tips? > >TIA, > > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Tue Oct 7 10:12:17 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Somewhat OT] Good 1U Hardware for Linux References: <20031007004707.000062bd.josh@trutwins.homeip.net><001501c38ca1$4c9bad40$0201a8c0@brinstar> <20031007065119.3367be2f.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: <003d01c38ce5$65c93370$0201a8c0@brinstar> Shawn writes: >> In fact, shrink-wrap or click-through licenses for software you >> purchase in a store are also invalid, but that's a different topic. > > David, can you expand on this? It's early in the morning, and my > head's spinning so I'm not thinking straight. The top makes sense, > it's the second paragraph that's confusining me....d There is nothing in copyright law (17 USC 117) or any other law (except perhaps some misguided local laws) that makes them valid. The first sale doctrine allows an owner of a copy to do what he or she wants (selling, lending, etc.) with it, as long as it is within copyright law. When you buy a copy of Windows at Best Buy, first sale doctrine applies, because you are buying that copy. You aren't signing a contract that legally binds you to a license. Thus, you have full rights under copyright law. There is no basis in law for restricting your rights after you've already purchased it. Imagine if there was a "click-through license" in a box of breakfast cereal. It seems silly, but software is exactly the same way. I believe this means that special versions of software not bought under contract cannot impose limitations on how you may use the software. This would include academic versions, OEM versions, etc. OEM resellers that sell the software incorrectly could be in violation of their contract, but that wouldn't make the end user liable, since the copy was made and distributed by the copyright holder. Imagine buying a "special" hammer, that said you were only allowed to use it at home, but not at work. Here are some good references: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/117.html http://cr.yp.to/softwarelaw.html http://www.lib.ncsu.edu/scc/tutorial/basics2a.html This is not directly related, but is a good general copyright page: http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Tue Oct 7 10:23:27 2003 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debugging procmail recipes In-Reply-To: <20031007141325.GA12886@refried.org> References: <16258.50740.175616.468272@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20031007141325.GA12886@refried.org> Message-ID: <16258.55919.373420.356658@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "nate" == nate writes: nate> On Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 08:57:08AM -0500, nate> rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: >> Does anyone have a bang-up approach for debugging .procmailrc >> files? >> >> I'd love something that would take a message file and step >> through the recipes, one after another, checking for matches >> and reporting them as they happen. >> >> I'm sure I'm dreaming, but it seemed worth asking.... nate> You're not dreaming. You just need these two lines in your nate> .procmailrc. nate> VERBOSE=on LOGFILE=$MAILDIR/procmail.log nate> Put the log file wherever you want. You'll get some pretty nate> verbose output so be sure to turn it off once you have nate> everything working again. Thanks, Nate! I think I was still dreaming, actually. I was thinking of a procmail debugger that ran OUTSIDE procmail, just testing the file on a single message. I think I get that by making sample alterations in a different RC file, then invoking procmail on a single message and pointing it at the test file.... r _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Tue Oct 7 10:37:15 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Somewhat OT] Good 1U Hardware for Linux In-Reply-To: <3F82C8D7.5010107@igi.com> References: <20031007004707.000062bd.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> <3F82C8D7.5010107@igi.com> Message-ID: <20031007103715.00007899.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 09:08:23 -0500 Jason Jorgensen wrote: > I recently got a 1U Dell PowerEdge 1750 with dual xeon, 3 SCSI Drives in > RAID5, dual gigabit onboard ethernet, video out, cdrom, floppy, dual > power supply. It took a little doing, but I got debian installed on it. > The drivers for the raid controller and network cards were the problem > since I was trying to do a net install. :) But I got it going and could > help someone else interested in getting Debian to run on a 1750. Thanks, Debian is my first choice. Their net install is pretty sweet. This is where we are leaning (Dell PowerEdge) so I might be taking you up on that offer. Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Tue Oct 7 10:48:04 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Somewhat OT] Good 1U Hardware for Linux In-Reply-To: <001501c38ca1$4c9bad40$0201a8c0@brinstar> References: <20031007004707.000062bd.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> <001501c38ca1$4c9bad40$0201a8c0@brinstar> Message-ID: <20031007104804.00002c4f.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> > If you think you need a license to install software on computer hardware > that you OWN, then you are seriously misinformed. If you own the hardware, > you can do whatever you want with it. Leased hardware might be a different > issue, depending on your contract. It was late, I guess I should have been a little more specific. Cobalt would void your warrenty and support contract if you tinkered with the box at all. I was looking for a server where the vendor doesn't care if you decide to install Windows Me on the thing. My only real experience with server hardware unfortunately is with these Cobalts and my own rolled HW, so my perspective is a bit different. I did manage to get Debian Linux built on one of the Raq4's (I even think I asked this list for some assisstance about a year back, no replies though...) but it was a nightmare and Cobalt will not support the box and its warrenty is now void. No matter now because Debian is on it and it's more stable than it ever was, but if I wasn't able to finish the install, I had a completely worthless 1U server running nothing. > Webmin seems to be popular. There are also a number of cheap integrated > control panels available. Several products have their own web interface. > And, alternatively, you could roll your own. I have my own that I use in my hosting environment. It's not complete, but it suits my purposes. My hope is that the guy I'm doing this for will pay me to finish up my custom CP for use on his new server. > We buy a lot of our hardware at mwave.com. They have good prices, good > service and a decent selection. You can order hardware assembled and tested > from them for an extra fee. I had great luck with mwave until recently, got a bad video card. Was bound to happen sooner or later. Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Tue Oct 7 10:40:58 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Somewhat OT] Good 1U Hardware for Linux Message-ID: Where would we go to take a look at it? It sounds interesting... >>> jasonj@igi.com 10/07/03 09:31AM >>> Somewhat off topic about the control panel. I need an excuse to do more work on it, could use some help with it, and I would be willing to help others set it up. It could be a piece of crap, but if anyone is interested let me know. (And if it is a piece of crap, someone let me know :) ) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jima at beer.tclug.org Tue Oct 7 12:29:32 2003 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Somewhat OT] Good 1U Hardware for Linux In-Reply-To: <3F82C8D7.5010107@igi.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Jason Jorgensen wrote: > I recently got a 1U Dell PowerEdge 1750 with dual xeon, 3 SCSI Drives in > RAID5, dual gigabit onboard ethernet, video out, cdrom, floppy, dual > power supply. It took a little doing, but I got debian installed on it. > The drivers for the raid controller and network cards were the problem > since I was trying to do a net install. :) But I got it going and could > help someone else interested in getting Debian to run on a 1750. I thought I'd seen something about this recently: http://lists.us.dell.com/pipermail/linux-poweredge/2003-September/015164.html Yes, it's a hack, but it might help. Dell's linux-poweredge mailing list is a pretty good resource, especially if you're using something besides RedHat. Jima _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jasonj at igi.com Tue Oct 7 13:06:38 2003 From: jasonj at igi.com (Jason Jorgensen) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Somewhat OT] Good 1U Hardware for Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F8300AE.4040307@igi.com> Everything is rough, including the website. http://www.innominatus.com/iam Troy.A Johnson wrote: >Where would we go to take a look at it? >It sounds interesting... > > > >>>>jasonj@igi.com 10/07/03 09:31AM >>> >>>> >>>> >Somewhat off topic about the control panel. >I need an excuse to do more work on it, could use some help with it, and >I would be willing to help others set it up. >It could be a piece of crap, but if anyone is interested let me know. >(And if it is a piece of crap, someone let me know :) ) > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From GoTz99 at aol.com Tue Oct 7 14:09:35 2003 From: GoTz99 at aol.com (GoTz99@aol.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] linux on powerbook 1400c Message-ID: <395D578F.607A9F04.0004A7F6@aol.com> hey! - i saw your post about putting linux on a powerbook 1400c and i just inherited one the other day and was wondering if you had any success with installing linux, and if not what the hell you are doing with it? i am in the same situtation and also yeah if you did get it working what nic card are you useing with it? thanks buddy!!!! s.r. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Tue Oct 7 14:18:40 2003 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] Installfest/LanParty In-Reply-To: <20031007190515.GE10083@fandre.com> References: <20031007190515.GE10083@fandre.com> Message-ID: <20031007191840.GA9114@mail.el-swifto.com> On Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 02:05:15PM -0500, Clay Fandre wrote: > Cost: > $10 to the U of M ACM Student Group Fee waived for volunteers, right? -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Wed Oct 1 15:22:26 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] October TCLUG Meeting Message-ID: <20031001202226.GB31316@fandre.com> Next TCLUG Meeting When: October 4th, 2003, noon-2pm Topic: An introduction to digital signatures, presented by Florin. Florin will talk about what is GPG with a bit of wandering in the theory of assymetrical cryptography then I will describe how to use it to generate keys, encrypt and sign files/messages and how to integrate GPG and the keyring with popular mail clients (Mutt, Evolution, Mozilla). Florin is a systems software engineer working at EDS PLM Solutions on Teamcenter Enteprise, the leading PLM (Product Lifecycle Management) software. He has been using Linux for 8 years on his home network. Where: University of Minnesota Electrical Engineering/Computer Science Building Room EE-CS 3-180 Map: http://onestop.umn.edu/Maps/EECSci/index.html _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Announcements - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-announce mailing list tclug-announce@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Tue Oct 7 14:05:15 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] Installfest/LanParty Message-ID: <20031007190515.GE10083@fandre.com> What: Installfest/LanParty When: Saturday October 18th, 11:00am to 8:00pm Where: University of Minnesota, Coffman Memorial Union: Great Hall Cost: $10 to the U of M ACM Student Group Food: Pizza, soda, and snacks will be on sale at the event. URL to coffman: http://onestop.umn.edu/Maps/CMU/index.html Directions: Take Washington Ave to Church St. SE, go south to Deleware St, turn right. Computers can be brought in through the south doors, or the west doors by the loading dock. If you plan on attending, please sign-up at http://acm.cs.umn.edu/lan/ _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Announcements - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-announce mailing list tclug-announce@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Tue Oct 7 19:10:53 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Whoohoo! In-Reply-To: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D3726@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> References: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D3726@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> Message-ID: <20031007191053.33293076.sfertch@real-time.com> On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:01:15 -0500 "Lansing, Dan" wrote: > Got mine too....brought it to work with me to play between > calls....only to find the cdrom on my laptop is unhappy with me....no > medium found.....it makes me cry......tried several cds....no luck > with any.....also slack sent me 2 copies....i will have to contact > them to see if I got double billed.... > Interesting. I remember having that issues previously on the cdrom with 8.0. Found it was a bad drive. I could read it in any other system. After doing a few things (nothing really aside from trying stuff with no real results), it managed to detect and load. 2 copies? Wow... Hope you didn't get double billed. -- Shawn The difficult we do today; the impossible take a little longer. Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Tue Oct 7 19:27:30 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Somewhat OT] Good 1U Hardware for Linux In-Reply-To: <003d01c38ce5$65c93370$0201a8c0@brinstar> References: <20031007004707.000062bd.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> <001501c38ca1$4c9bad40$0201a8c0@brinstar> <20031007065119.3367be2f.sfertch@real-time.com> <003d01c38ce5$65c93370$0201a8c0@brinstar> Message-ID: <20031007192730.5b92c68a.sfertch@real-time.com> On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:12:17 -0500 "David Phillips" wrote: > There is nothing in copyright law (17 USC 117) or any other law > (except perhaps some misguided local laws) that makes them valid. The > first sale doctrine allows an owner of a copy to do what he or she > wants (selling, lending, etc.) with it, as long as it is within > copyright law. > > When you buy a copy of Windows at Best Buy, first sale doctrine > applies, because you are buying that copy. You aren't signing a > contract that legally binds you to a license. Thus, you have full > rights under copyright law. There is no basis in law for restricting > your rights after you've already purchased it. Imagine if there was a > "click-through license" in a box of breakfast cereal. It seems silly, > but software is exactly the same way. > > I believe this means that special versions of software not bought > under contract cannot impose limitations on how you may use the > software. This would include academic versions, OEM versions, etc. > OEM resellers that sell the software incorrectly could be in violation > of their contract, but that wouldn't make the end user liable, since > the copy was made and distributed by the copyright holder. Imagine > buying a "special" hammer, that said you were only allowed to use it > at home, but not at work. > Admittedly, I haven't had a chance to look into the links you mentioned, but I when given time in a short time. Isn't there an argument that if you buy something and it comes with a clause of "Sold as is, no warranty implied nor given" it's just that? Or that can be put into context of "sold to the original owner, not for transfer/trade to another party". I believe coupon swapping groups got into trouble for that a few years ago. Airlines tickets are generally non-transferable as well. If I'm not mistaken, those clauses are considered binding. Meaning you accept the terms at which you buy them or receive them. I'll admit to there being ways to not be limited to those clauses, but typically it involves the court system and proof of why you shouldn't be. This is all just my understanding of how sales are typically handled with certain clauses. Not saying it's right, nor wrong. Just how I've understood them. It's a buyer beware world, if you don't agree with something don't buy it. Read the legalize on what you're considering purchasing. Not trying to sound harsh, but there's also an amount of responsibility involved with this. -- Shawn The difficult we do today; the impossible take a little longer. Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Tue Oct 7 19:57:33 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Somewhat OT] Good 1U Hardware for Linux In-Reply-To: <20031007192730.5b92c68a.sfertch@real-time.com> References: <20031007004707.000062bd.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> <001501c38ca1$4c9bad40$0201a8c0@brinstar> <20031007065119.3367be2f.sfertch@real-time.com> <003d01c38ce5$65c93370$0201a8c0@brinstar> <20031007192730.5b92c68a.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: <3F8360FD.9000300@visi.com> I'm just saying this because I don't know who the lawyer is but I wouldn't bet my house on any of that. If MS wants a company to pay, I will assure you they will pay. The same can be said for IBM, Oracle, Redhat, or any other company. Software that is sold for use in this country shouldn't be boot legged, it's that simple. Yes, I have license for every OS and other software on every computer in my house that needs a license. If someone walks out of best buy with a computer, sells it to you with your knowledge that it's stolen. You can be arrested for receiving stolen property. About 20 years ago I was working in Up Town, a guy came to the store (10,000 Auto Parts) and asked several of us if we wanted to buy a TV ;-) One of the guys said yes, we watched the guy walk across the street, in to Best Buy, and he almost got in to the street with the TV. OH did I say we called Best Buy and gave them the description of the guy. Sam. Shawn wrote: >On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:12:17 -0500 >"David Phillips" wrote: > > > >>There is nothing in copyright law (17 USC 117) or any other law >>(except perhaps some misguided local laws) that makes them valid. The >>first sale doctrine allows an owner of a copy to do what he or she >>wants (selling, lending, etc.) with it, as long as it is within >>copyright law. >> >>When you buy a copy of Windows at Best Buy, first sale doctrine >>applies, because you are buying that copy. You aren't signing a >>contract that legally binds you to a license. Thus, you have full >>rights under copyright law. There is no basis in law for restricting >>your rights after you've already purchased it. Imagine if there was a >>"click-through license" in a box of breakfast cereal. It seems silly, >>but software is exactly the same way. >> >>I believe this means that special versions of software not bought >>under contract cannot impose limitations on how you may use the >>software. This would include academic versions, OEM versions, etc. >>OEM resellers that sell the software incorrectly could be in violation >>of their contract, but that wouldn't make the end user liable, since >>the copy was made and distributed by the copyright holder. Imagine >>buying a "special" hammer, that said you were only allowed to use it >>at home, but not at work. >> >> >> > >Admittedly, I haven't had a chance to look into the links you mentioned, but I when given time in a short time. Isn't there an argument that if you buy something and it comes with a clause of "Sold as is, no warranty implied nor given" it's just that? Or that can be put into context of "sold to the original owner, not for transfer/trade to another party". I believe coupon swapping groups got into trouble for that a few years ago. Airlines tickets are generally non-transferable as well. > >If I'm not mistaken, those clauses are considered binding. Meaning you accept the terms at which you buy them or receive them. I'll admit to there being ways to not be limited to those clauses, but typically it involves the court system and proof of why you shouldn't be. > >This is all just my understanding of how sales are typically handled with certain clauses. Not saying it's right, nor wrong. Just how I've understood them. > >It's a buyer beware world, if you don't agree with something don't buy it. Read the legalize on what you're considering purchasing. Not trying to sound harsh, but there's also an amount of responsibility involved with this. > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Tue Oct 7 19:53:58 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Somewhat OT] Good 1U Hardware for Linux References: <20031007004707.000062bd.josh@trutwins.homeip.net><001501c38ca1$4c9bad40$0201a8c0@brinstar><20031007065119.3367be2f.sfertch@real-time.com><003d01c38ce5$65c93370$0201a8c0@brinstar> <20031007192730.5b92c68a.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: <004701c38d36$a81e1500$0201a8c0@brinstar> Shawn writes: > Isn't there an > argument that if you buy something and it comes with a clause of > "Sold as is, no warranty implied nor given" it's just that? If it exists, that is an agreement between you and the merchant. It isn't a condition imposed after the sale by an unrelated third party. > Or that can be put into context of "sold to the original owner, > not for transfer/trade to another party". Not unless you sign a contract which states that specifically. > I believe coupon swapping groups > got into trouble for that a few years ago. I have no idea what you are talking about here. > Airlines tickets are generally non-transferable as well. That is something you agree to when you purchase the tickets. You are making that agreement with the party from whom you are buying the tickets. > It's a buyer beware world, if you don't agree with something don't > buy it. Read the legalize on what you're considering purchasing. I don't have to research the law when I buy a book or computer software at a store. Unrelated third parties have no legal basis for influencing transactions. If you think they do, prove it by citing the relevant law. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Tue Oct 7 19:59:04 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Somewhat OT] Good 1U Hardware for Linux References: <20031007004707.000062bd.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> <001501c38ca1$4c9bad40$0201a8c0@brinstar> <20031007065119.3367be2f.sfertch@real-time.com> <003d01c38ce5$65c93370$0201a8c0@brinstar> <20031007192730.5b92c68a.sfertch@real-time.com> <3F8360FD.9000300@visi.com> Message-ID: <005201c38d37$5e8862a0$0201a8c0@brinstar> Sam MacDonald writes: > Software that is sold for use in this country shouldn't be boot > legged, it's that simple. > [...] > If someone walks out of best buy with a computer, sells it to you with > your knowledge that it's stolen. You can be arrested for receiving > stolen property. You must be replying to the wrong thread. No one has said anything about stealing physical property or making unauthorized copies of copyrighted works. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Tue Oct 7 20:28:35 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:56 2005 Subject: Software licenses was Re: [TCLUG] [Somewhat OT] Good 1U Hardware for Linux In-Reply-To: <004701c38d36$a81e1500$0201a8c0@brinstar> References: <20031007004707.000062bd.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> <001501c38ca1$4c9bad40$0201a8c0@brinstar> <20031007065119.3367be2f.sfertch@real-time.com> <003d01c38ce5$65c93370$0201a8c0@brinstar> <20031007192730.5b92c68a.sfertch@real-time.com> <004701c38d36$a81e1500$0201a8c0@brinstar> Message-ID: <20031007202835.41b20c00.sfertch@real-time.com> On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:53:58 -0500 "David Phillips" wrote: > Shawn writes: > > Isn't there an > > argument that if you buy something and it comes with a clause of > > "Sold as is, no warranty implied nor given" it's just that? > > If it exists, that is an agreement between you and the merchant. It > isn't a condition imposed after the sale by an unrelated third party. > The reseller, ie Best Buy, is considered an agent. When you purchase software from a reseller, you are in effect buying from the producer. If the license on the outside says to the effect "These are our terms for your license to use. If you disagree, do not open. Return unopened package for refund." The a reseller has a contingent license, or other goods such as extended warranty, then that is between you and the reseller from whom you purchased that "additional item." > > Or that can be put into context of "sold to the original owner, > > not for transfer/trade to another party". > > Not unless you sign a contract which states that specifically. > Implied licenses? See above. > > I believe coupon swapping groups > > got into trouble for that a few years ago. > > I have no idea what you are talking about here. > Was on 20/20 a while a go. lol > > Airlines tickets are generally non-transferable as well. > > That is something you agree to when you purchase the tickets. You are > making that agreement with the party from whom you are buying the > tickets. > It's a condition of the airlines. Regardless of the travel agent. Again, implied. Which can be considered equivalent to software purchases if stated so in license. > > It's a buyer beware world, if you don't agree with something don't > > buy it. Read the legalize on what you're considering purchasing. > > I don't have to research the law when I buy a book or computer > software at a store. Unrelated third parties have no legal basis for > influencing transactions. If you think they do, prove it by citing > the relevant law. > I wasn't referring to third parties in any of my posts. The point I was making is that when you purchase software or something that has a written license or document outlying it's usage, your "signature" is the acceptance of said conditions from manufacturer when purchased. Again, there are ways out of this, but it typically involves courts and you having to explain why. In regards to the law, if you claim ignorance that is not a defense. -- Shawn The difficult we do today; the impossible take a little longer. Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From eh at constantdata.com Tue Oct 7 22:03:03 2003 From: eh at constantdata.com (Abderrahman El Haddi.) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:56 2005 Subject: Software licenses was Re: [TCLUG] [Somewhat OT] Good 1U Hardware for Linux In-Reply-To: <20031007202835.41b20c00.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: I could not resist but pitch one of our constantdata.com 's slogans for Linux/Unix Data Replication: "Drive it and Drive it! Kick the tires before you buy! Try it, if you like you buy it: Avoid software and hardware fascists!"(TM) Back to the subject: The Best 1U box I have seen is one from Dell or their supplier. I can't remember who is their supplier. It's used but a few NAS vendors. I liked the cooling system in it too. Most 1U problems I have seen where cooling or power up/down/restart issues. --elhaddi Constant Data, Inc. www.constantdata.com Real Time Data Replication and backup consolidation for Linux/UNIX. On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Shawn wrote: > On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:53:58 -0500 > "David Phillips" wrote: > > > Shawn writes: > > > Isn't there an > > > argument that if you buy something and it comes with a clause of > > > "Sold as is, no warranty implied nor given" it's just that? > > > > If it exists, that is an agreement between you and the merchant. It > > isn't a condition imposed after the sale by an unrelated third party. > > > The reseller, ie Best Buy, is considered an agent. When you purchase software from a reseller, you are in effect buying from the producer. If the license on the outside says to the effect "These are our terms for your license to use. If you disagree, do not open. Return unopened package for refund." The a reseller has a contingent license, or other goods such as extended warranty, then that is between you and the reseller from whom you purchased that "additional item." > > > > Or that can be put into context of "sold to the original owner, > > > not for transfer/trade to another party". > > > > Not unless you sign a contract which states that specifically. > > > Implied licenses? See above. > > > > I believe coupon swapping groups > > > got into trouble for that a few years ago. > > > > I have no idea what you are talking about here. > > > Was on 20/20 a while a go. lol > > > > Airlines tickets are generally non-transferable as well. > > > > That is something you agree to when you purchase the tickets. You are > > making that agreement with the party from whom you are buying the > > tickets. > > > It's a condition of the airlines. Regardless of the travel agent. Again, implied. Which can be considered equivalent to software purchases if stated so in license. > > > > It's a buyer beware world, if you don't agree with something don't > > > buy it. Read the legalize on what you're considering purchasing. > > > > I don't have to research the law when I buy a book or computer > > software at a store. Unrelated third parties have no legal basis for > > influencing transactions. If you think they do, prove it by citing > > the relevant law. > > > I wasn't referring to third parties in any of my posts. The point I was making is that when you purchase software or something that has a written license or document outlying it's usage, your "signature" is the acceptance of said conditions from manufacturer when purchased. Again, there are ways out of this, but it typically involves courts and you having to explain why. > > In regards to the law, if you claim ignorance that is not a defense. > > -- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blots at visi.com Wed Oct 8 00:02:55 2003 From: blots at visi.com (Tom Penney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:56 2005 Subject: Software licenses was Re: [TCLUG] [Somewhat OT] Good 1U Hardware for Linux In-Reply-To: <20031007202835.41b20c00.sfertch@real-time.com> References: <20031007004707.000062bd.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> <001501c38ca1$4c9bad40$0201a8c0@brinstar> <20031007065119.3367be2f.sfertch@real-time.com> <003d01c38ce5$65c93370$0201a8c0@brinstar> <20031007192730.5b92c68a.sfertch@real-time.com> <004701c38d36$a81e1500$0201a8c0@brinstar> <20031007202835.41b20c00.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: <1065589375.6063.35.camel@lotsa> I had a OEM copy of MS office XP. Which I paid for jumped though the hoops to use. A couple of months went by and for reasons I wont go into I needed MS Access which does not come with the version of office I owned. I decided to sell my copy of office and purchase another OEM MS Office XP version that does come with MS Access. It was my understanding that I owned my old copy of office, which I no longer needed, and I could sell it if I chose. I Had two copies I was only using one, I only had one installed, so I listed it on ebay. A day later I got the message posted below. My point is in the real world we are not free to do what we want with our copies of software. Dear Tom Penney (blots@bigfoot.com), **PLEASE READ THIS IMPORTANT EMAIL REGARDING YOUR LISTING(S)** We would like to let you know that we removed your listing: 3616515626 MicroSoft Office XP Small Business, Used because a member of our Verified Rights Owner (VeRO) Program notified us, under penalty of perjury, that your item infringes their copyright, trademark, or other rights. For more information on the VeRO Program, and a list of VeRO Members About Me pages, please visit: http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/vero-aboutme.html We have credited any associated fees to your account. We have also notified the bidders that the listing(s) was removed, and that they are not obligated to complete the transaction. If you relist this or any other similar items on eBay, your account could be suspended. If you believe your listing was ended in error, or have questions regarding the removal of this listing, please contact the VeRO Member directly at: Microsoft netsafe@microsoft.com eBay is available to answer questions, but since it is the VeRO Member that requested the removal of your listings, we encourage you to contact them first. Below is information provided by Microsoft: Dear Vendor: The distribution of counterfeit and other unauthorized software on the Internet is a serious problem. Through test purchases and other research, Microsoft has confirmed that an alarming quantity of counterfeit or otherwise unauthorized Microsoft software reaches consumers hands each year. The distribution of such software harms the recipients, who unwittingly pay for illegitimate software they are not licensed to use and that may put at risk the integrity of their computer systems. To address this problem and protect consumers, Microsoft and other software publishers work with eBay to identify and remove postings that offer to distribute unauthorized software. This process led us to your listing on eBay. Microsoft believes that the software offered in this listing infringes its copyrights and/or its trademarks, because the software is not genuine or because the proposed transaction is otherwise unauthorized. In addition to counterfeit software, unauthorized software includes: ? Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) software transferred separately from the computer with which it was acquired; OEM software distributed without the appropriate hardware and other components required to properly license the user; ? Academic versions of Microsoft software distributed to non-qualified users; ? Worldwide Fulfillment software (frequently packaged as shrink-wrapped CDs); ? Software distributed without the components with which it was originally distributed, including a CD-ROM and a Certificate of Authenticity and, for certain software, the user manual and the end-user license agreement (e.g. CD-only offers; software pre-loaded on hard drives) Under U.S. law, a person who distributes counterfeit or other unauthorized software is liable for damages and may even face criminal penalties, including fines and imprisonment. If you have further questions about the termination of this listing, please feel free to contact us directly through netsafe@microsoft.com. You should provide the following information: ? The number of the listing about which you are inquiring ? A detailed description of the software components being offered, including the packaging of these components ? A brief description of the transaction through which you acquired the software Upon receipt of this information, a member of our team will further review your listing and contact you to address any specific concerns you may have. If we determine that your listing was terminated in error, we will contact eBay to advise them that Microsoft has no objection to the reinstatement of your listing. You can find valuable information on acquiring and reselling genuine Microsoft software by visiting http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/tools/resellers/tips.asp. If you can provide information regarding a source of counterfeit or other unauthorized Microsoft software, please e-mail us at netsafe@microsoft.com. For more information regarding Microsofts efforts to combat the distribution of counterfeit and other unauthorized software, please visit the Microsoft Anti-Piracy homepage at http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/. Finally, for specific information about the distribution of Microsoft software on eBay, please visit our About Me page at http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/netsafe@microsoft.com. Thank you for your cooperation. Regards, Customer Support (Trust and Safety Department) eBay Inc On Tue, 2003-10-07 at 20:28, Shawn wrote: > On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:53:58 -0500 > "David Phillips" wrote: > > > Shawn writes: > > > Isn't there an > > > argument that if you buy something and it comes with a clause of > > > "Sold as is, no warranty implied nor given" it's just that? > > > > If it exists, that is an agreement between you and the merchant. It > > isn't a condition imposed after the sale by an unrelated third party. > > > The reseller, ie Best Buy, is considered an agent. When you purchase software from a reseller, you are in effect buying from the producer. If the license on the outside says to the effect "These are our terms for your license to use. If you disagree, do not open. Return unopened package for refund." The a reseller has a contingent license, or other goods such as extended warranty, then that is between you and the reseller from whom you purchased that "additional item." > > > > Or that can be put into context of "sold to the original owner, > > > not for transfer/trade to another party". > > > > Not unless you sign a contract which states that specifically. > > > Implied licenses? See above. > > > > I believe coupon swapping groups > > > got into trouble for that a few years ago. > > > > I have no idea what you are talking about here. > > > Was on 20/20 a while a go. lol > > > > Airlines tickets are generally non-transferable as well. > > > > That is something you agree to when you purchase the tickets. You are > > making that agreement with the party from whom you are buying the > > tickets. > > > It's a condition of the airlines. Regardless of the travel agent. Again, implied. Which can be considered equivalent to software purchases if stated so in license. > > > > It's a buyer beware world, if you don't agree with something don't > > > buy it. Read the legalize on what you're considering purchasing. > > > > I don't have to research the law when I buy a book or computer > > software at a store. Unrelated third parties have no legal basis for > > influencing transactions. If you think they do, prove it by citing > > the relevant law. > > > I wasn't referring to third parties in any of my posts. The point I was making is that when you purchase software or something that has a written license or document outlying it's usage, your "signature" is the acceptance of said conditions from manufacturer when purchased. Again, there are ways out of this, but it typically involves courts and you having to explain why. > > In regards to the law, if you claim ignorance that is not a defense. -- Tom Penney _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rware at interplastic.com Wed Oct 8 06:27:21 2003 From: rware at interplastic.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:56 2005 Subject: Software licenses was Re: [TCLUG] [Somewhat OT] Good 1U Hardw are for Linux Message-ID: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B1B1@ipserver2.interplastic.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Penney [mailto:blots@visi.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 12:03 AM > To: TCLUG > Subject: Re: Software licenses was Re: [TCLUG] [Somewhat OT] Good 1U > Hardware for Linux > > > I had a OEM copy of MS office XP. Which I paid for jumped though the > hoops to use. A couple of months went by and for reasons I > wont go into > I needed MS Access which does not come with the version of office I > owned. I decided to sell my copy of office and purchase another OEM MS > Office XP version that does come with MS Access. It was my > understanding > that I owned my old copy of office, which I no longer needed, and I OEM binds that license to the machine with which it came. A lot of companies have been stung by that. You get a pc for a user with oem office. Later you redeploy that to someone else who doesn't need office, so you think you have an office license to use elsewhere, nope. You buy another copy for the other user. OEM while saving money upfront will cost you unless you know for sure that a particular machine will never not need that office. Plus when that pc is parted out at the end of its life, the office license dies, now you can go get another one. Far better to buy the real thing if you actually need office. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rware at interplastic.com Wed Oct 8 06:35:23 2003 From: rware at interplastic.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:56 2005 Subject: Software licenses was Re: [TCLUG] [Somewhat OT] Good 1U Hardw are for Linux Message-ID: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B1B2@ipserver2.interplastic.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Ryan Ware [mailto:rware@interplastic.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 6:27 AM > To: 'tclug-list@mn-linux.org' > Subject: RE: Software licenses was Re: [TCLUG] [Somewhat OT] Good 1U > Hardw are for Linux > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Tom Penney [mailto:blots@visi.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 12:03 AM > > To: TCLUG > > Subject: Re: Software licenses was Re: [TCLUG] [Somewhat OT] Good 1U > copy for the other user. OEM while saving money upfront will cost you > unless you know for sure that a particular machine will never > not need that "never not need that" it's too early! Should have said "unless you know that the machine with the oem copy will always be deployed to a person or function that will need office." Another point, if you insist on keeping up with the office releases and your needs fit the above, OEM might be the cheapest way to go.> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com Wed Oct 8 07:46:29 2003 From: Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com (Lansing, Dan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Whoohoo! Message-ID: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D3729@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> Yeah the cds read fine in other systems...get them to mount sometimes....ran the upgrade but too many errors to get anything accomplished...now my install on my laptop doesn't work...should be fun fixing....as far as getting double billed, I have been trying to contact them to find out but I only get a voice mail at the number...if I didn't get double billed and they don't want it back I guess ill have to find someone who wants slack9.1 free :) shouldn't be too hard Dan Lansing -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Shawn Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 7:11 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Whoohoo! On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:01:15 -0500 "Lansing, Dan" wrote: > Got mine too....brought it to work with me to play between > calls....only to find the cdrom on my laptop is unhappy with me....no > medium found.....it makes me cry......tried several cds....no luck > with any.....also slack sent me 2 copies....i will have to contact > them to see if I got double billed.... > Interesting. I remember having that issues previously on the cdrom with 8.0. Found it was a bad drive. I could read it in any other system. After doing a few things (nothing really aside from trying stuff with no real results), it managed to detect and load. 2 copies? Wow... Hope you didn't get double billed. -- Shawn The difficult we do today; the impossible take a little longer. Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blots at visi.com Wed Oct 8 08:59:01 2003 From: blots at visi.com (Tom Penney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:56 2005 Subject: Software licenses was Re: [TCLUG] [Somewhat OT] Good 1U Hardw are for Linux In-Reply-To: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B1B1@ipserver2.interplastic.com> References: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B1B1@ipserver2.interplastic.com> Message-ID: <1065621541.6063.63.camel@lotsa> On Wed, 2003-10-08 at 06:27, Ryan Ware wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Tom Penney [mailto:blots@visi.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 12:03 AM > > To: TCLUG > > Subject: Re: Software licenses was Re: [TCLUG] [Somewhat OT] Good 1U > > Hardware for Linux > > > > > > I had a OEM copy of MS office XP. Which I paid for jumped though the > > hoops to use. A couple of months went by and for reasons I > > wont go into > > I needed MS Access which does not come with the version of office I > > owned. I decided to sell my copy of office and purchase another OEM MS > > Office XP version that does come with MS Access. It was my > > understanding > > that I owned my old copy of office, which I no longer needed, and I > > OEM binds that license to the machine with which it came. A lot of > companies have been stung by that. You get a pc for a user with oem office. > Later you redeploy that to someone else who doesn't need office, so you > think you have an office license to use elsewhere, nope. You buy another > copy for the other user. OEM while saving money upfront will cost you > unless you know for sure that a particular machine will never not need that > office. Plus when that pc is parted out at the end of its life, the office > license dies, now you can go get another one. Far better to buy the real > thing if you actually need office. I realize this is what MS wants everyone to believe but it was my understanding that this is not legal. I'm not a lawyer and I don't care to hire one over this. According to Dave I can sell it, Legally it's mine to sell. If Microsoft sold hammers could they say you can only use it on one house? Bullshit IMO. But I'm the little guy, I'm forced to play by their rules regardless of what I think. I will be happy when the MS Empire falls, I just hope I live to see it. - Tom -- Tom Penney _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tsinks at isd.net Wed Oct 8 09:46:12 2003 From: tsinks at isd.net (Tim Sinks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:56 2005 Subject: Software licenses was Re: [TCLUG] [Somewhat OT] Good 1U Hardware for Linux References: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B1B1@ipserver2.interplastic.com> <1065621541.6063.63.camel@lotsa> Message-ID: <008b01c38daa$ebe95500$0300000a@net.tsinks> I find this all rather amusing about the software licenses. This obviously is more than just an M$ problem. This is still shaking out about rights and ownership of nebulous thoughts and programs. It will go on for some time because it is changing as I write this email. However, it reminds me of my former SE form HP who referred to the giant as 'Bill's Software of the Month Club'. He also called another organizations production as 'Novel Notware'. It was a lot easier to set up the rights, patents, and copyrights for distinct, new, and printed items. Now with the ease of copying, CD's, tapes, and proof of dates it is difficult to establish the finite differences in these items. The problem with OEM copies is they are part of the hardware distribution. You can not establish a distinct payment or ownership to them without the purchase of the hardware. These are critical to the copyrights and licenses of the item. At the point they leave the licensed hardware they are not legal. They are owned by the hardware owner as the purchaser. In reality this is not much different than the ownership of the OS application materials for a large Unix system where the license is tied to the hardware with a code and the serial number. It can be changed to a new system, but with a new code and serial number given by the hardware or software maufacturer. Remember, if you build, design, or create something it is your right to establish ownership of that creation whether it be a piece of furniture, a new rocket, or some unique written software to accomplish something that someone wants to be able to do. It is the American Way. Thanks, Tim Sinks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Penney" To: "TCLUG" Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 8:59 AM Subject: RE: Software licenses was Re: [TCLUG] [Somewhat OT] Good 1U Hardware for Linux _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sww at perlick.com Wed Oct 8 08:39:15 2003 From: sww at perlick.com (Steve Westlie) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux password troubles Message-ID: <000701c38da1$92190470$6700000a@perlnt> Hi TCLUG. Last year, on May 16th, you posted a question on a Linux forum about passwords: ****************** "Hello, I have a user on my system whose password expires after one day when it's changed by root. I've tried setting the password as root, and then logging into the system and changing the password as the user, but it still expires after one day. Anyone have any advice on where to look first?" ***************** It so happens that I am experiencing the same thing. In my case, the users affected by this had their primary group changed from the default. Any luck??? Thanks for any advise. Steve _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cdf123 at cdf123.com Wed Oct 8 10:01:44 2003 From: cdf123 at cdf123.com (Chris Frederick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux password troubles In-Reply-To: <000701c38da1$92190470$6700000a@perlnt> References: <000701c38da1$92190470$6700000a@perlnt> Message-ID: <3F8426D8.80500@cdf123.com> I remember running into this on a Red Hat box a while back. I added the user from the command line, but the account was disabled after one day. I fixed it by running the graphical redhat-config-users tool. on the account settings tab for the account, you can disable the experation date (witch was always set to tomorrow). Sorry I don't know how to do this from the shell though. But this may help to google in the right direction... Chris Frederick Steve Westlie wrote: >Hi TCLUG. > >Last year, on May 16th, you posted a question on a Linux forum about >passwords: > >****************** >"Hello, > >I have a user on my system whose password expires after one day when it's >changed by root. I've tried setting the password as root, and then logging >into the system and changing the password as the user, but it still expires >after one day. Anyone have any advice on where to look first?" > >***************** > >It so happens that I am experiencing the same thing. In my case, the users >affected by this had their primary group changed from the default. > >Any luck??? > >Thanks for any advise. > >Steve > > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dru at druswanderings.net Wed Oct 8 10:05:27 2003 From: dru at druswanderings.net (The Wandering Dru) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux password troubles In-Reply-To: <000701c38da1$92190470$6700000a@perlnt> References: <000701c38da1$92190470$6700000a@perlnt> Message-ID: <3F8427B7.5080206@druswanderings.net> Steve Westlie wrote: > Hi TCLUG. > > Last year, on May 16th, you posted a question on a Linux forum about > passwords: > > ****************** > "Hello, > > I have a user on my system whose password expires after one day when it's > changed by root. I've tried setting the password as root, and then logging > into the system and changing the password as the user, but it still expires > after one day. Anyone have any advice on where to look first?" > > ***************** > > It so happens that I am experiencing the same thing. In my case, the users > affected by this had their primary group changed from the default. > > Any luck??? > > Thanks for any advise. > > Steve > I would look first at: man passwd and take special interest in the Password Expiry section. But that's just me. ;-) -- The Wandering Dru http://druswanderings.net <--- Things 'n' Such Get nifty TCLUG merchandise at the TCLUG Store! http://www.cafeshops.com/tclug _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From joeltclug at litriusgroup.com Wed Oct 8 10:12:35 2003 From: joeltclug at litriusgroup.com (Joel Wickard) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:57 2005 Subject: Software licenses was Re: [TCLUG] [Somewhat OT] Good 1U Hardware for Linux In-Reply-To: <008b01c38daa$ebe95500$0300000a@net.tsinks> References: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B1B1@ipserver2.interplastic.com> <1065621541.6063.63.camel@lotsa> <008b01c38daa$ebe95500$0300000a@net.tsinks> Message-ID: <33060.63.167.96.45.1065625955.squirrel@mail.fifthstreet.net> >The problem with OEM copies is they are part > of the hardware distribution. You can not establish a distinct payment > or ownership to them without the purchase of the hardware. These are > critical to the copyrights and licenses of the item. At the point they > leave the licensed hardware they are not legal. They are owned by the > hardware owner as the purchaser. I just had an interesting thought. nanosystems has in the past sold oem versions of xp to users provided they purchase a case screw to go with it. They've maintained that this does not violate MS's oem licensing. So that said, if the oem software is tied to the hardware, does that mean I can transfer that software (not multiple copies.. just the one) to any machine I want to, so long as I install that screw into the machine as well? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Wed Oct 8 10:16:19 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:57 2005 Subject: Software licenses was Re: [TCLUG] [Somewhat OT] Good 1U Hardware for Linux References: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B1B1@ipserver2.interplastic.com> <1065621541.6063.63.camel@lotsa> <008b01c38daa$ebe95500$0300000a@net.tsinks> <33060.63.167.96.45.1065625955.squirrel@mail.fifthstreet.net> Message-ID: <000401c38daf$1fff15b0$0201a8c0@brinstar> Joel Wickard writes: > does that mean I can transfer that software (not multiple > copies.. just the one) to any machine I want to Yes. You have all the rights granted by 17 USC 117. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bbaptist at iexposure.com Wed Oct 8 10:48:54 2003 From: bbaptist at iexposure.com (Bret Baptist) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux password troubles In-Reply-To: <000701c38da1$92190470$6700000a@perlnt> References: <000701c38da1$92190470$6700000a@perlnt> Message-ID: <200310081048.54508.bbaptist@iexposure.com> On Wednesday 08 October 2003 8:39 am, Steve Westlie wrote: > Hi TCLUG. > > Last year, on May 16th, you posted a question on a Linux forum about > passwords: > > ****************** > "Hello, > > I have a user on my system whose password expires after one day when it's > changed by root. I've tried setting the password as root, and then logging > into the system and changing the password as the user, but it still expires > after one day. Anyone have any advice on where to look first?" > man chage > ***************** > > It so happens that I am experiencing the same thing. In my case, the users > affected by this had their primary group changed from the default. > > Any luck??? > > Thanks for any advise. > > Steve > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Bret Baptist Systems and Technical Support Specialist bbaptist@iexposure.com Internet Exposure, Inc. http://www.iexposure.com (612)676-1946 x17 Web Development-Web Marketing-ISP Services ------------------------------------------ Today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Wed Oct 8 12:34:38 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:57 2005 Subject: Software licenses was Re: [TCLUG] [Somewhat OT] Good 1U Hardware for Linux In-Reply-To: <000401c38daf$1fff15b0$0201a8c0@brinstar> Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, David Phillips wrote: > Joel Wickard writes: > > does that mean I can transfer that software (not multiple > > copies.. just the one) to any machine I want to > > Yes. You have all the rights granted by 17 USC 117. I do not think so. There right are granted by 17 USC 117 sure. But a contract between you and microsoft at a later time can supercede that. take a look at an NDA for example, everybody has the right to free speech, but you agree to voluntarily put limits on your right to free speech by agreeing to an NDA, or when you sign a "no-disparage" agreement. Many people sign away their right to sue <$company> everyday, be it for an amusement park, a new drug, to drive a rental car, to use an operating system/program. It has been a long standing fact that a legal person CAN sign away their basic rights. Almost all of them in fact. Now are click-throughs and paper seal the same as your signature? i do not think so but that is something for the courts to decide. Munir Nassar RedConcepts.NET http://redconcepts.net/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lxy at cloudnet.com Wed Oct 8 13:03:47 2003 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] insmod and kernel 2.6 Message-ID: Out of either boredom or curiosity I got kernel 2.6-test2 running on my Debian box the other night. It seems to be running fine, until I try to add modules. If I use lsmod, insmod, or modprobe I keep getting "function not implemented" errors. My box is running Debian unstable, so it's got the bleeding edge versions installed. Is there some secret version I need to use for kernel 2.6? -Brian _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Wed Oct 8 13:27:13 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] insmod and kernel 2.6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031008182713.GI20232@fandre.com> http://www.codemonkey.org.uk/post-halloween-2.5.txt On Wed, 08 Oct 2003, Brian wrote: > Out of either boredom or curiosity I got kernel 2.6-test2 running on my > Debian box the other night. It seems to be running fine, until I try to > add modules. If I use lsmod, insmod, or modprobe I keep getting "function > not implemented" errors. My box is running Debian unstable, so it's got > the bleeding edge versions installed. Is there some secret version I need > to use for kernel 2.6? > > -Brian > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Wed Oct 8 13:30:00 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] insmod and kernel 2.6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031008183000.GJ20232@fandre.com> Here's a nice article on upgrading to 2.6: http://kerneltrap.org/node/view/799/3760 On Wed, 08 Oct 2003, Brian wrote: > Out of either boredom or curiosity I got kernel 2.6-test2 running on my > Debian box the other night. It seems to be running fine, until I try to > add modules. If I use lsmod, insmod, or modprobe I keep getting "function > not implemented" errors. My box is running Debian unstable, so it's got > the bleeding edge versions installed. Is there some secret version I need > to use for kernel 2.6? > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dru at druswanderings.net Wed Oct 8 15:02:09 2003 From: dru at druswanderings.net (The Wandering Dru) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] insmod and kernel 2.6 In-Reply-To: <20031008182713.GI20232@fandre.com> References: <20031008182713.GI20232@fandre.com> Message-ID: <3F846D41.1060602@druswanderings.net> > On Wed, 08 Oct 2003, Brian wrote: > > >Out of either boredom or curiosity I got kernel 2.6-test2 running on my >Debian box the other night. It seems to be running fine, until I try to >add modules. If I use lsmod, insmod, or modprobe I keep getting "function >not implemented" errors. My box is running Debian unstable, so it's got >the bleeding edge versions installed. Is there some secret version I need >to use for kernel 2.6? > >-Brian > One of the things I've found is just because you are running Sid, it doesn't necessarily mean you are running bleeding edge. Some of the stuff in there is almost a year old. -- The Wandering Dru http://druswanderings.net <--- Things 'n' Such Get nifty TCLUG merchandise at the TCLUG Store! http://www.cafeshops.com/tclug _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rhydian.lewis at cgey.com Wed Oct 8 10:23:46 2003 From: rhydian.lewis at cgey.com (Lewis, Rhydian) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] linux tv app Message-ID: <719E467B067CD311ADF20008C75DE7810A8271D2@extol01.capgemini.co.uk> Surely for TV out you just need a graphics card with a composite (CINCH/RCA/PHONO) or S-video connector. ******************************************************************************************** " This message contains information that may be privileged or confidential and is the property of the Cap Gemini Ernst & Young Group. It is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy, disseminate, distribute, or use this message or any part thereof. If you receive this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this message ". ******************************************************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031008/c9e47910/attachment.html From natecars at real-time.com Wed Oct 8 16:12:10 2003 From: natecars at real-time.com (natecars@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] insmod and kernel 2.6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Brian wrote: > Out of either boredom or curiosity I got kernel 2.6-test2 running on my > Debian box the other night. It seems to be running fine, until I try to > add modules. If I use lsmod, insmod, or modprobe I keep getting > "function not implemented" errors. My box is running Debian unstable, > so it's got the bleeding edge versions installed. Is there some secret > version I need to use for kernel 2.6? yeah, the module interface changed - apt-get install module-init-tools. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dante at argle.org Wed Oct 8 16:22:21 2003 From: dante at argle.org (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:57 2005 Subject: Software licenses was Re: [TCLUG] [Somewhat OT] Good 1U Hardware for Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F84800D.1090401@argle.org> Munir Nassar wrote: > On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, David Phillips wrote: > > >>Joel Wickard writes: >> >>>does that mean I can transfer that software (not multiple >>>copies.. just the one) to any machine I want to >> >>Yes. You have all the rights granted by 17 USC 117. > > > I do not think so. There right are granted by 17 USC 117 sure. But a > contract between you and microsoft at a later time can supercede that. > IANAL, and this cannot be taken as legal advise, but it is a description of my understanding of the relationship between contract law and EULA's within Minnesota. It might not be true for you if you live anywhere else, and I may be outright mistaken on one or more points. Do not mistake a shrinkwrap license for a contract. Contracts can be negotiated, any "take it or leave it" item like a shrinkwrap license is on shaky ground if it does not provide at least as much obligation on the writer as it does the recipient. It is also generally true that for something to be considered a contract you have to have the right to refuse (or not sign) it. Since software is treated as a non-returnable item, you do not have the right of effective refusal once you have seen the EULA. Therefore, since you can't get your money back, and the EULA places more onerous restrictions on you than on the company presenting the EULA, _and_ you don't get to see it before commiting (by purchasing and unwrapping it, and often by partially installing it), it would appear that the shrinkwrap or clickwrap EULA is invalid in Minnesota. End rant. > take a look at an NDA for example, everybody has the right to free speech, > but you agree to voluntarily put limits on your right to free speech by > agreeing to an NDA, or when you sign a "no-disparage" agreement. > > Many people sign away their right to sue <$company> everyday, be it for an > amusement park, a new drug, to drive a rental car, to use an operating > system/program. > > It has been a long standing fact that a legal person CAN sign away their > basic rights. Almost all of them in fact. > > Now are click-throughs and paper seal the same as your signature? i do not > think so but that is something for the courts to decide. > > Munir Nassar > RedConcepts.NET > http://redconcepts.net/ > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From LCLEMENS at mn.rr.com Wed Oct 8 15:30:27 2003 From: LCLEMENS at mn.rr.com (Lawrence Clemens) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:57 2005 Subject: Software licenses was Re: [TCLUG] [Somewhat OT] Good 1U Hardware for Linux References: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B1B1@ipserver2.interplastic.com> <1065621541.6063.63.camel@lotsa> <008b01c38daa$ebe95500$0300000a@net.tsinks> Message-ID: <009a01c38ddb$031703a0$71fea8c0@computer> A couple of interesting points have been raised in this thread. Let me add to the knowledge base and also ask a question: On ebay I sometimes see software offered along with a computer part (a blank CD!), apparently allowing the seller to meet the letter of the law and ebay's terms. I think, however, not all software can be sold this way. I also see people selling an office suite for about $4.95 plus shipping and handling (usually listed at a higher charge than I suspect it costs the seller, there by adding to his/her profit. If you read the fine print, the suite is a copy of Open Office, which I suppose is salable under the GNU agreement. Here's the question. In on of the responses someone mentioned that office (I assume MS) bought already loaded on a machine, could not be transferred to another machine, i.e. it was tied to the first machine, so it might not be as good an investment long run as buying the software separate and then being able to remove it and transfer it to another machine as needs require. For you System Admins out there - have you had any luck switching the MS users to Open Office and presumably saviing tons of money? Is it accepted pretty much as a free drop in or substitute? Larry Clemens ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Sinks" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 9:46 AM Subject: Re: Software licenses was Re: [TCLUG] [Somewhat OT] Good 1U Hardware for Linux > I find this all rather amusing about the software licenses. This obviously > is more than just an M$ problem. This is still shaking out about rights and > ownership of nebulous thoughts and programs. It will go on for some time > because it is changing as I write this email. > However, it reminds me of my former SE form HP who referred to the giant as > 'Bill's Software of the Month Club'. He also called another organizations > production as 'Novel Notware'. > It was a lot easier to set up the rights, patents, and copyrights for > distinct, new, and printed items. Now with the ease of copying, CD's, > tapes, and proof of dates it is difficult to establish the finite > differences in these items. The problem with OEM copies is they are part of > the hardware distribution. You can not establish a distinct payment or > ownership to them without the purchase of the hardware. These are critical > to the copyrights and licenses of the item. At the point they leave the > licensed hardware they are not legal. They are owned by the hardware owner > as the purchaser. > In reality this is not much different than the ownership of the OS > application materials for a large Unix system where the license is tied to > the hardware with a code and the serial number. It can be changed to a new > system, but with a new code and serial number given by the hardware or > software maufacturer. > Remember, if you build, design, or create something it is your right to > establish ownership of that creation whether it be a piece of furniture, a > new rocket, or some unique written software to accomplish something that > someone wants to be able to do. It is the American Way. > > Thanks, > Tim Sinks > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Penney" > To: "TCLUG" > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 8:59 AM > Subject: RE: Software licenses was Re: [TCLUG] [Somewhat OT] Good 1U > Hardware for Linux > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Wed Oct 8 17:57:30 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] eMail client Message-ID: <3F84965A.7050703@visi.com> Anyone know of an eMail client that has the look and feel of Midnight Commander something totally terminal based but like midnight commander. I've used mutt but it's leaves a little to be desired. Sam. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Wed Oct 8 17:56:30 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] eMail client In-Reply-To: <3F84965A.7050703@visi.com> References: <3F84965A.7050703@visi.com> Message-ID: <55854.65.193.16.100.1065653790.squirrel@secure.redconcepts.net> Sam MacDonald said: > Anyone know of an eMail client that has the look and feel of Midnight > Commander something totally terminal based but like midnight commander. > > I've used mutt but it's leaves a little to be desired. i use pine all the time, works great for me. do you know that you just started a long long flamewar? -- Munir Nassar RedConcepts.NET http://redconcepts.net/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Wed Oct 8 18:55:40 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:58 2005 Subject: Software licenses was Re: [TCLUG] [Somewhat OT] Good 1U Hardware for Linux References: Message-ID: <002001c38df7$ad72db50$0201a8c0@brinstar> Munir Nassar writes: > I do not think so. There right are granted by 17 USC 117 sure. But a > contract between you and microsoft at a later time can supercede that. Yes, but there's no contract when you buy something in a store. Unless you sign a contract with Microsoft, or perform some other overt act such as buying it directly from them, then you have all the rights granted by the law. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Wed Oct 8 19:22:55 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] eMail client In-Reply-To: <3F84965A.7050703@visi.com> References: <3F84965A.7050703@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031009002255.GA22966@fandre.com> On Wed, 08 Oct 2003, Sam MacDonald wrote: > Anyone know of an eMail client that has the look and feel of Midnight > Commander something totally terminal based but like midnight commander. > > I've used mutt but it's leaves a little to be desired. "Don't criticize what you don't understand." Mutt might the the greatest non-gui mail client ever. Yes, it does take a little time to understand it, but once you do your mail reading will never be the same. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Wed Oct 8 19:38:51 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:58 2005 Subject: Software licenses was Re: [TCLUG] [Somewhat OT] Good 1U Hardware for Linux In-Reply-To: <002001c38df7$ad72db50$0201a8c0@brinstar> Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, David Phillips wrote: > Munir Nassar writes: > > I do not think so. There right are granted by 17 USC 117 sure. But a > > contract between you and microsoft at a later time can supercede that. > > Yes, but there's no contract when you buy something in a store. Unless you > sign a contract with Microsoft, or perform some other overt act such as > buying it directly from them, then you have all the rights granted by the > law. I did not say that there was a contract, i said that _A_ contract _CAN_ supercede that. then i went on to say that the click through, or a shrink wrap MAY be interpreted to be a contract, but that is up to the courts. Doesnt anybody READ their email anymore? Munir Nassar RedConcepts.NET http://redconcepts.net/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Wed Oct 8 19:41:42 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] eMail client In-Reply-To: <3F84965A.7050703@visi.com> References: <3F84965A.7050703@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031009004142.GF12485@techmonkeys.org> On Wed, Oct 08, 2003 at 05:57:30PM -0500, Sam MacDonald wrote: > Anyone know of an eMail client that has the look and feel of Midnight > Commander something totally terminal based but like midnight commander. > > I've used mutt but it's leaves a little to be desired. Most people are turned off by mutt due to the poor (minimal?) defaults, if you've used pine, you'll appreciate my mutt configuration: http://www.poptix.net/mail/ the key bindings are pine-ish, and the colors help a lot. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dante at argle.org Wed Oct 8 20:42:47 2003 From: dante at argle.org (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] eMail client In-Reply-To: <20031009002255.GA22966@fandre.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Clay Fandre wrote: > On Wed, 08 Oct 2003, Sam MacDonald wrote: > > > Anyone know of an eMail client that has the look and feel of Midnight > > Commander something totally terminal based but like midnight commander. > > > > I've used mutt but it's leaves a little to be desired. > > "Don't criticize what you don't understand." > > Mutt might the the greatest non-gui mail client ever. Yes, it does > take a little time to understand it, but once you do your mail reading > will never be the same. > Having taken the time to understand mutt, I use pine at home and Mozilla at work. Never been happier. -- Daniel Taylor dante@argle.org Forget diamonds, Copyright is forever. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dante at argle.org Wed Oct 8 20:41:16 2003 From: dante at argle.org (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:58 2005 Subject: Software licenses was Re: [TCLUG] [Somewhat OT] Good 1U Hardware for Linux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Munir Nassar wrote: > On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, David Phillips wrote: > > > Munir Nassar writes: > > > I do not think so. There right are granted by 17 USC 117 sure. But a > > > contract between you and microsoft at a later time can supercede that. > > > > Yes, but there's no contract when you buy something in a store. Unless you > > sign a contract with Microsoft, or perform some other overt act such as > > buying it directly from them, then you have all the rights granted by the > > law. > > I did not say that there was a contract, i said that _A_ contract _CAN_ > supercede that. > > then i went on to say that the click through, or a shrink wrap MAY be > interpreted to be a contract, but that is up to the courts. > > Doesnt anybody READ their email anymore? > I read it. But as I mentioned in my previous mail, I don't think EULA's come within a country mile of contract law. Therefore I felt it necessary to provide an explanation of why when shrinkwrap licenses were mentioned in conjunction with what a contract can do. In some detail. I personally see EULA's as letters of intent from the software publisher. Taken in that light they are quite ominous enough. -- Daniel Taylor dante@argle.org Forget diamonds, Copyright is forever. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From list at slushpupie.com Wed Oct 8 20:49:33 2003 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] eMail client In-Reply-To: <20031009004142.GF12485@techmonkeys.org> References: <3F84965A.7050703@visi.com> <20031009004142.GF12485@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20031008204933.2eb2d13d.list@slushpupie.com> On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 19:41:42 -0500 "Matthew S. Hallacy" wrote: >Most people are turned off by mutt due to the poor (minimal?) defaults, >if you've used pine, you'll appreciate my mutt configuration: One of the problems I have had with most console based mail clients is I have a lot of sub folders that things get sorted into, and I have yet to find a decent way of summarizing which folders have how many new messages, etc. Ill take a look at your config tonight and see if that makes life any easier, but does anyone else work like this? Also, I generally use IMAP because keeping a consant connection open to the server isnt always possible (dumb sonicwall routers...) Jay _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dru at druswanderings.net Wed Oct 8 20:49:42 2003 From: dru at druswanderings.net (The Wandering Dru) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] eMail client In-Reply-To: <3F84965A.7050703@visi.com> References: <3F84965A.7050703@visi.com> Message-ID: <3F84BEB6.6000000@druswanderings.net> Sam MacDonald wrote: > I've used mutt but it's leaves a little to be desired. > > Sam. > Sam, my friend, On the contrary, I've found that if you desire it, mutt can probably do it. I've used on the for a couple years and I'm still saying, "Wow! I didn't know it could do that!". Like most F/OSS, what you see at first is usually just the tip of the iceberg. Also, like most F/OSS, it takes a bit to get things working the way you want, but when you finally do, it just keeps working. May I suggest the Newbie Overview found at: http://mutt.blackfish.org.uk/ And the rest of the docs at: http://www.mutt.org ---- The Wandering Dru _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Wed Oct 8 20:59:51 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] eMail client In-Reply-To: <20031008204933.2eb2d13d.list@slushpupie.com> References: <3F84965A.7050703@visi.com> <20031009004142.GF12485@techmonkeys.org> <20031008204933.2eb2d13d.list@slushpupie.com> Message-ID: <20031009015951.GH12485@techmonkeys.org> On Wed, Oct 08, 2003 at 08:49:33PM -0500, Jay Kline wrote: > One of the problems I have had with most console based mail clients is I > have a lot of sub folders that things get sorted into, and I have yet to > find a decent way of summarizing which folders have how many new > messages, etc. I currently have 37 seperate mail folders for various high and low traffic lists, categories, etc. While mutt doesn't show how many are unread in the folder, I do have it setup to go to the next highest priority folder with unread messages by default (hit g, the folder name is auto-inserted) You can also hit tab after that to see which folders have unread messages, or tab again to see all folders. > Ill take a look at your config tonight and see if that > makes life any easier, but does anyone else work like this? Also, I > generally use IMAP because keeping a consant connection open to the > server isnt always possible (dumb sonicwall routers...) > > Jay -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Wed Oct 8 21:17:55 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] eMail client In-Reply-To: <55854.65.193.16.100.1065653790.squirrel@secure.redconcepts.net> References: <3F84965A.7050703@visi.com> <55854.65.193.16.100.1065653790.squirrel@secure.redconcepts.net> Message-ID: <3F84C553.9020801@visi.com> I usually do. Sam. Munir Nassar wrote: >Sam MacDonald said: > > >>Anyone know of an eMail client that has the look and feel of Midnight >>Commander something totally terminal based but like midnight commander. >> >>I've used mutt but it's leaves a little to be desired. >> >> > >i use pine all the time, works great for me. > >do you know that you just started a long long flamewar? > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Wed Oct 8 21:20:50 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] eMail client In-Reply-To: <3F84965A.7050703@visi.com> References: <3F84965A.7050703@visi.com> Message-ID: <3F84C602.5040608@visi.com> I guess I should have said "visually", I did say "look and feel of Midnight Commander" . Sam MacDonald wrote: > Anyone know of an eMail client that has the look and feel of Midnight > Commander something totally terminal based but like midnight commander. > > I've used mutt but it's leaves a little to be desired. > > Sam. > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Wed Oct 8 21:20:16 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:58 2005 Subject: Software licenses was Re: [TCLUG] [Somewhat OT] Good 1U Hardware for Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031008212016.648f8663.sfertch@real-time.com> On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:41:16 -0500 (CDT) Daniel Taylor wrote: > I read it. But as I mentioned in my previous mail, I don't think > EULA's come within a country mile of contract law. Therefore I felt > it necessary to provide an explanation of why when shrinkwrap licenses > were mentioned in conjunction with what a contract can do. > > In some detail. > > I personally see EULA's as letters of intent from the software > publisher. Taken in that light they are quite ominous enough. > Has anyone actually ever tried and successfully won a legal case here in MN about the EULA? BTW, I just looked at my XP home box and the license is only mentioned on the outside that it's contained from inside. However, there's a gotcha on this. Resellers won't allow opened software to be returned, and the only way to read the EULA is to open the package. Therefore, you're F'ed. No returns, no money back. So, in a way you have an agreement with said software company. Albeit forced to some degrees. In my posts, I wasn't referring to software that came with hardware purchases. I was talking about boxed software only. Such as the upgrade or standalone versions of Windows, software games, Photoshop, etc... -- Shawn The difficult we do today; the impossible take a little longer. Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jpschewe at mtu.net Wed Oct 8 21:21:14 2003 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debugging procmail recipes In-Reply-To: <16258.50740.175616.468272@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <16258.50740.175616.468272@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <16260.50714.173737.576135@workstation.mn.mtu.net> Couple of suggestions: 1) Set the LOGFILE variable in your .procmailrc 2) Make the action of each rule be a pipe to a shell script that prints out all of it's arguments and make the argument be the name of the rule >>>>> "r" == rpgoldman writes: r> Does anyone have a bang-up approach for debugging .procmailrc files? r> I'd love something that would take a message file and step through the r> recipes, one after another, checking for matches and reporting them as r> they happen. r> I'm sure I'm dreaming, but it seemed worth asking.... r> R r> _______________________________________________ r> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota r> http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org r> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe | jpschewe@mtu.net For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nate at refried.org Wed Oct 8 21:20:53 2003 From: nate at refried.org (nate@refried.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] eMail client In-Reply-To: <3F84965A.7050703@visi.com> References: <3F84965A.7050703@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031009022053.GA27455@refried.org> On Wed, Oct 08, 2003 at 05:57:30PM -0500, Sam MacDonald wrote: > Anyone know of an eMail client that has the look and feel of Midnight > Commander something totally terminal based but like midnight commander. What about the look and feel of mc are you trying to get in an email client? The vertical split screen? The pull down menus? The command line near the bottom? Perhaps you want to just use nmh from the mc command line. Is there an older DOS mail reader that you adored and want to use for email? Nate _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Wed Oct 8 21:44:54 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mind blank on X11 tunnels w/ssh & ssh question Message-ID: <20031008214454.30323655.sfertch@real-time.com> Okay, I'm drawing a blank on X11 and ssh. I'm ssh'ing to a box that has Xforwarding enabled from my desktop (Slack) that has fvwm2 as it's window manager. However, when I try to run an X app I get "can't open display" from the other system that I connected to. I did do "xhost +servername" and got the display error. I then tried "xhost +" and still get it. I'm looking at my X options within ssh_config but don't see anything that's standing out for me on what to enable to allow it. Just to say it, I did also try exporting my display back to my local system to no avail. I did a search for X11+ssh+local+display and came up with 31,000 hits. I dug thru a few of them, but didn't find anything conclusive except that this works: $ ssh -X host.domain.com But I can't find the equivalent of this for the local ssh_config file. Also, I plan on upgrading my system but I wanted to do some testing on ssh prior to doing so. I tried to set "Compression yes" on a system with Openssh 3.2.3p1 but it comes up with an invalid option. I know I can set it with "ssh -C" but was looking for a default setting. The man page for ssh shows that what I did was supposed to be correct, but didn't look like it was working. Thanks. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jj at cedarbrook.us Wed Oct 8 21:43:17 2003 From: jj at cedarbrook.us (Jerry Jensen) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] future install fest Message-ID: Hi all. I've recently subscriber to this list. I don't drink beer. I do tip; more when the service is superb. I am part of a non-profit organization. I don't know a debian from a samba **BUT** I don't like being held hostage to Microsoft. I would like to experiment with a home wireless network before I even think of installing Linux at work. I have two laptops with Pentium processors and a Tower with AMD 800 processor. I would like to keep Windows on the tower (just cause I need to be able to compute while learning this Linux stuff). Is there hope for an untrained person to even think of doing anything with Linux? --Jerry _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Wed Oct 8 22:25:19 2003 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] future install fest In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031009032519.GB862@iucha.net> On Wed, Oct 08, 2003 at 09:43:17PM -0500, Jerry Jensen wrote: > Hi all. I've recently subscriber to this list. > > I don't drink beer. I do tip; more when the service is superb. I am part > of a non-profit organization. I don't know a debian from a samba **BUT** I > don't like being held hostage to Microsoft. > > I would like to experiment with a home wireless network before I even think > of installing Linux at work. I have two laptops with Pentium processors and > a Tower with AMD 800 processor. I would like to keep Windows on the tower > (just cause I need to be able to compute while learning this Linux stuff). > > Is there hope for an untrained person to even think of doing anything with > Linux? Nope. We were all born with Linux hardwired. How did you manage to get in our closed circle? florin -- Don't question authority: they don't know either! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031008/4d5e91a5/attachment.pgp From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Wed Oct 8 22:45:35 2003 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] future install fest In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031009034535.GA25930@mail.el-swifto.com> On Wed, Oct 08, 2003 at 09:43:17PM -0500, Jerry Jensen wrote: > Hi all. I've recently subscriber to this list. > > I don't drink beer. I do tip; more when the service is superb. I am part > of a non-profit organization. I don't know a debian from a samba **BUT** I > don't like being held hostage to Microsoft. > > I would like to experiment with a home wireless network before I even think > of installing Linux at work. I have two laptops with Pentium processors and > a Tower with AMD 800 processor. I would like to keep Windows on the tower > (just cause I need to be able to compute while learning this Linux stuff). > > Is there hope for an untrained person to even think of doing anything with > Linux? Heck yes. It helps a lot if you have a "sacrifical" machine for your first install -- it might have a few ups and downs. You may start drinking beer during this process. :^) -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From joel at joelschneider.net Thu Oct 9 01:37:38 2003 From: joel at joelschneider.net (Joel Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:59 2005 Subject: Software licenses was Re: [TCLUG] [Somewhat OT] Good 1U Hardware for Linux In-Reply-To: <000401c38daf$1fff15b0$0201a8c0@brinstar>; from david@acz.org on Wed, Oct 08, 2003 at 10:16:19AM -0500 References: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B1B1@ipserver2.interplastic.com> <1065621541.6063.63.camel@lotsa> <008b01c38daa$ebe95500$0300000a@net.tsinks> <33060.63.167.96.45.1065625955.squirrel@mail.fifthstreet.net> <000401c38daf$1fff15b0$0201a8c0@brinstar> Message-ID: <20031009013738.D1265@joelschneider.net> On Wed, Oct 08, 2003 at 10:16:19AM -0500, David Phillips wrote: > Joel Wickard writes: > > does that mean I can transfer that software (not multiple > > copies.. just the one) to any machine I want to > > Yes. You have all the rights granted by 17 USC 117. Is this opinion backed by legal precedent? -- Joel Schneider joel@joelschneider.net Linux makes computing fun again. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Thu Oct 9 03:14:58 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux password troubles In-Reply-To: <200310081048.54508.bbaptist@iexposure.com> References: <000701c38da1$92190470$6700000a@perlnt> <200310081048.54508.bbaptist@iexposure.com> Message-ID: <1065687297.3524.14.camel@bigtime> > man chage Or 'usermod'. Or live on the edge and hack /etc/shadow yourself... (protip: probably not a good idea) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031009/99f65b0a/attachment.pgp From seg at haxxed.com Thu Oct 9 04:22:33 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] eMail client In-Reply-To: <3F84BEB6.6000000@druswanderings.net> References: <3F84965A.7050703@visi.com> <3F84BEB6.6000000@druswanderings.net> Message-ID: <1065691352.3524.80.camel@bigtime> > On the contrary, I've found that if you desire it, mutt can probably do > it. I've used on the for a couple years and I'm still saying, "Wow! I > didn't know it could do that!". Like most F/OSS, what you see at first > is usually just the tip of the iceberg. It of course doesn't HAVE to be this way. Pine is an excellent example of a self documenting program. Its easy to figure out without needing documentation. This is at its core what GUI's are supposed to be about. Textmode programs can be made just as easy to use. However, it seems to be some people's philosophy that textmode programs are to be terse, unfriendly, impossible to figure out without documentation, and downright ugly. To each their own. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031009/e34d325c/attachment.pgp From smac at visi.com Thu Oct 9 07:02:38 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] eMail client In-Reply-To: <20031009022053.GA27455@refried.org> References: <3F84965A.7050703@visi.com> <20031009022053.GA27455@refried.org> Message-ID: <3F854E5E.3020709@visi.com> The menus, color, file system view, and the like. Sam. nate@refried.org wrote: >On Wed, Oct 08, 2003 at 05:57:30PM -0500, Sam MacDonald wrote: > > >>Anyone know of an eMail client that has the look and feel of Midnight >>Commander something totally terminal based but like midnight commander. >> >> > >What about the look and feel of mc are you trying to get in an email >client? The vertical split screen? The pull down menus? The command >line near the bottom? Perhaps you want to just use nmh from the mc >command line. Is there an older DOS mail reader that you adored and >want to use for email? > >Nate > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Gregory.Siems at state.mn.us Thu Oct 9 07:10:02 2003 From: Gregory.Siems at state.mn.us (Siems, Gregory) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mind blank on X11 tunnels w/ssh & ssh question In-Reply-To: <20031008214454.30323655.sfertch@real-time.com> References: <20031008214454.30323655.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: <1065701403.808.9.camel@petra> On Wed, 2003-10-08 at 21:44, Shawn wrote: man sshd_config man ssh_config FWIW, the following: # cat /etc/ssh/ssh_config Host * ForwardX11 yes Port 22 Protocol 2 # cat /etc/ssh/sshd_config Port 22 Protocol 2 X11Forwarding yes ...etc, etc, etc... # works for me. --greg _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Thu Oct 9 07:24:28 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] future install fest In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031009122428.GA1515@fandre.com> Be sure to make it to the installfest next Saturday. I'm sure that will help you get off to a great start. http://www.mn-linux.org/installfest/ On Wed, 08 Oct 2003, Jerry Jensen wrote: > Hi all. I've recently subscriber to this list. > > I don't drink beer. I do tip; more when the service is superb. I am part > of a non-profit organization. I don't know a debian from a samba **BUT** I > don't like being held hostage to Microsoft. > > I would like to experiment with a home wireless network before I even think > of installing Linux at work. I have two laptops with Pentium processors and > a Tower with AMD 800 processor. I would like to keep Windows on the tower > (just cause I need to be able to compute while learning this Linux stuff). > > Is there hope for an untrained person to even think of doing anything with > Linux? > > --Jerry _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Oct 9 07:42:26 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] future install fest In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F8557B2.3060001@visi.com> Even with all the differing opinions and some angst about what is best to use for what. I've learned so much more with this group then I ever could have alone. I've been a member for about 3 months now, 1 beer meeting (2 beers, I think), and 1 install fest. I'm not being a Debian advocate it's just what worked on my laptop... The next install fest is on October 18th. If you don't have a CD ROM, I'll bring my Debian Rescue, Root, and driver diskettes (base as well) and your laptops will run Linux. Let me suggest that you have at least 1 machine without X windows (I no longer have a Linux box with X windows on it) You will learn much more about Linux and UNIX by learning from the command line. It forces you to learn the file system and configuration files. Check the following to see if the laptops and network cards are compatible. (my laptop is not on the list and it works) http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Hardware-HOWTO/laptops.html#AEN379 and http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Hardware-HOWTO/pcmcia.html I'm using a Xircom CE3 10/100 that us using the CE2 driver and it works fine on my AST Bravo NB-RC, 486/25sx, 24MB RAM, 200MB Disk, 9.5 Inch Color Display, and an Iomga ZIP 100 Parallel. Sam. Jerry Jensen wrote: >Hi all. I've recently subscriber to this list. > >I don't drink beer. I do tip; more when the service is superb. I am part >of a non-profit organization. I don't know a debian from a samba **BUT** I >don't like being held hostage to Microsoft. > >I would like to experiment with a home wireless network before I even think >of installing Linux at work. I have two laptops with Pentium processors and >a Tower with AMD 800 processor. I would like to keep Windows on the tower >(just cause I need to be able to compute while learning this Linux stuff). > >Is there hope for an untrained person to even think of doing anything with >Linux? > >--Jerry > > > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Oct 9 08:07:38 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mind blank on X11 tunnels w/ssh & ssh question In-Reply-To: <20031008214454.30323655.sfertch@real-time.com> References: <20031008214454.30323655.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: <3F855D9A.7070409@visi.com> When I had X windows on my Redhat machine (KDE) I used Cigwin with this as the process. Start Cygwin $ startx Leave an xterm open I would 'exit' TWM leaving the X server running (don't ask me how this worked) click the desktop and select 'exit' I would then "ssh -X -l 'account' 'machine'" from the open xterm When logged in I'd type 'KDE' and KDE would start. It's all magic, as you know, so it may or may not work. Depends on the fates or luck or some darn quirk of Cygwin. The Redhat machine now has Debian on it without X windows. I want to have X windows on that machine but I'm having some difficulty, apparently I'm mister potato head ;-) I just need to know more about what all goes in to an installation of X windows. Sam. Shawn wrote: >Okay, I'm drawing a blank on X11 and ssh. I'm ssh'ing to a box that has Xforwarding enabled from my desktop (Slack) that has fvwm2 as it's window manager. However, when I try to run an X app I get "can't open display" from the other system that I connected to. > >I did do "xhost +servername" and got the display error. I then tried "xhost +" and still get it. I'm looking at my X options within ssh_config but don't see anything that's standing out for me on what to enable to allow it. Just to say it, I did also try exporting my display back to my local system to no avail. > >I did a search for X11+ssh+local+display and came up with 31,000 hits. I dug thru a few of them, but didn't find anything conclusive except that this works: > >$ ssh -X host.domain.com > >But I can't find the equivalent of this for the local ssh_config file. > >Also, I plan on upgrading my system but I wanted to do some testing on ssh prior to doing so. I tried to set "Compression yes" on a system with Openssh 3.2.3p1 but it comes up with an invalid option. I know I can set it with "ssh -C" but was looking for a default setting. The man page for ssh shows that what I did was supposed to be correct, but didn't look like it was working. > > >Thanks. > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Oct 9 08:10:49 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] eMail client In-Reply-To: <20031009002255.GA22966@fandre.com> References: <3F84965A.7050703@visi.com> <20031009002255.GA22966@fandre.com> Message-ID: <3F855E59.3000804@visi.com> OK I've used mutt but it's leaves a little to be desired. For ME! Sam. Clay Fandre wrote: >On Wed, 08 Oct 2003, Sam MacDonald wrote: > > > >>Anyone know of an eMail client that has the look and feel of Midnight >>Commander something totally terminal based but like midnight commander. >> >>I've used mutt but it's leaves a little to be desired. >> >> > >"Don't criticize what you don't understand." > >Mutt might the the greatest non-gui mail client ever. Yes, it does >take a little time to understand it, but once you do your mail reading >will never be the same. > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Thu Oct 9 08:21:51 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] future install fest In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1065705709.5609.38.camel@unixws1> On Wed, 2003-10-08 at 21:43, Jerry Jensen wrote: > Hi all. I've recently subscriber to this list. > Welcome! We're always happy to get new faces. > I don't drink beer. I do tip; more when the service is superb. I am part > of a non-profit organization. I don't know a debian from a samba **BUT** I > don't like being held hostage to Microsoft. > Luckily drinking beer is not a requirement. Nor are there mason-esque initiation rituals. Bob will teach you the secret handshake at your first meeting, after you are issued your gavel. :) > I would like to experiment with a home wireless network before I even think > of installing Linux at work. I have two laptops with Pentium processors and > a Tower with AMD 800 processor. I would like to keep Windows on the tower > (just cause I need to be able to compute while learning this Linux stuff). > > Is there hope for an untrained person to even think of doing anything with > Linux? Absolutely. And with joining the list, you've probably tapped the best resource for learning you could imagine. There are lots of experienced Linuxy-people here with lots of different backgrounds. Right or wrong, my advice is to dive in head-first. Obviously, keeping a Windows machine around is a good safety net, and you'll definately need it. But I think the best way to really learn is to force yourself to use your Linux machine whenever possible. There will be some pain in the beginning, but eventually it will become second nature, and you'll cringe at the days when you had to reboot to change an IP address. It's just like how dad taught me to swim. Took me fishing and pushed me into the lake. Then he took off to his next fishing spot and told me to "Suck it up Nancy-boy, you aren't gonna drown." Sometimes I got to rest for a couple of minutes before getting thrown back in. Good times, good times. Again, welcome to the group. Adam Maloney Systems Administrator Sihope Communications _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From list at slushpupie.com Thu Oct 9 08:35:32 2003 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] future install fest In-Reply-To: <1065705709.5609.38.camel@unixws1> References: <1065705709.5609.38.camel@unixws1> Message-ID: <20031009083532.3c554180.list@slushpupie.com> On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 08:21:51 -0500 Adam Maloney wrote: >Right or wrong, my advice is to dive in head-first. Obviously, keeping >a Windows machine around is a good safety net, and you'll definately >need it. But I think the best way to really learn is to force yourself >to use your Linux machine whenever possible. There will be some pain in >the beginning, but eventually it will become second nature, and you'll >cringe at the days when you had to reboot to change an IP address. When I went away to school my first year, I spent the summer getting my computer dual booting NT and Linux (slackware at the time). For a while, I went back and forth, but after going 3 months without rebooting, I decided my NT partition was just wasted space. So, I reformatted the NT partition ext2 and put something more useful there (aka music) and went another 2 months uptime before I decided to upgrade the kernel. If you use it every day, you get used to it really fast. >It's just like how dad taught me to swim. Took me fishing and pushed me >into the lake. Then he took off to his next fishing spot and told me to >"Suck it up Nancy-boy, you aren't gonna drown." Sometimes I got to rest >for a couple of minutes before getting thrown back in. Good times, good >times. Vaguely familiar to my childhood, but I was given heavy bricks at the same time. Go figure. Jay _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Oct 9 09:12:56 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] future install fest In-Reply-To: <20031009083532.3c554180.list@slushpupie.com> References: <1065705709.5609.38.camel@unixws1> <20031009083532.3c554180.list@slushpupie.com> Message-ID: <3F856CE8.3090801@visi.com> Dang you all were lucky! I was put in a burlap sack, with 50 lbs of rocks, tied closed at the top and tossed in the river! Sam. Jay Kline wrote: >On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 08:21:51 -0500 >Adam Maloney wrote: > > >>Right or wrong, my advice is to dive in head-first. Obviously, keeping >>a Windows machine around is a good safety net, and you'll definately >>need it. But I think the best way to really learn is to force yourself >>to use your Linux machine whenever possible. There will be some pain in >>the beginning, but eventually it will become second nature, and you'll >>cringe at the days when you had to reboot to change an IP address. >> >> > >When I went away to school my first year, I spent the summer getting my >computer dual booting NT and Linux (slackware at the time). For a while, I >went back and forth, but after going 3 months without rebooting, I decided my >NT partition was just wasted space. So, I reformatted the NT partition >ext2 and put something more useful there (aka music) and went another 2 >months uptime before I decided to upgrade the kernel. If you use it every >day, you get used to it really fast. > > > > >>It's just like how dad taught me to swim. Took me fishing and pushed me >>into the lake. Then he took off to his next fishing spot and told me to >>"Suck it up Nancy-boy, you aren't gonna drown." Sometimes I got to rest >>for a couple of minutes before getting thrown back in. Good times, good >>times. >> >> > >Vaguely familiar to my childhood, but I was given heavy bricks at the same >time. Go figure. > >Jay > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Thu Oct 9 09:50:50 2003 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mind blank on X11 tunnels w/ssh & ssh question In-Reply-To: <20031008214454.30323655.sfertch@real-time.com> References: <20031008214454.30323655.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Shawn wrote: > Okay, I'm drawing a blank on X11 and ssh. I'm ssh'ing to a box that has > Xforwarding enabled from my desktop (Slack) that has fvwm2 as it's > window manager. However, when I try to run an X app I get "can't open > display" from the other system that I connected to. add the -v option to your ssh command line, and it'll tell you why it can't set up x forwarding for you. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Thu Oct 9 10:36:10 2003 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] future install fest In-Reply-To: <3F856CE8.3090801@visi.com> References: <1065705709.5609.38.camel@unixws1> <20031009083532.3c554180.list@slushpupie.com> <3F856CE8.3090801@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031009153610.GA12014@mail.el-swifto.com> On Thu, Oct 09, 2003 at 09:12:56AM -0500, Sam MacDonald wrote: > Dang you all were lucky! I was put in a burlap sack, with 50 lbs of > rocks, tied closed at the top and tossed in the river! > Of course, when *I* was a boy, I had it rough. I used to *dream* of being put in a burlap sack with 50 pounds of rocks, tied closed at the top and tossed in the river! It would have been a palace to me. Apologies to Monty Python, er, Monty Perl. -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Thu Oct 9 10:47:54 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] future install fest In-Reply-To: <20031009153610.GA12014@mail.el-swifto.com> References: <1065705709.5609.38.camel@unixws1> <20031009083532.3c554180.list@slushpupie.com> <3F856CE8.3090801@visi.com> <20031009153610.GA12014@mail.el-swifto.com> Message-ID: <1065714473.5609.50.camel@unixws1> Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at three o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of hot gravel, go to work at the mill every day for tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would beat us around the head and neck with a broken bottle, if we were LUCKY! I *love* that skit. On Thu, 2003-10-09 at 10:36, John J. Trammell wrote: > On Thu, Oct 09, 2003 at 09:12:56AM -0500, Sam MacDonald wrote: > > Dang you all were lucky! I was put in a burlap sack, with 50 lbs of > > rocks, tied closed at the top and tossed in the river! > > > > Of course, when *I* was a boy, I had it rough. I used to > *dream* of being put in a burlap sack with 50 pounds of > rocks, tied closed at the top and tossed in the river! It > would have been a palace to me. > > Apologies to Monty Python, er, Monty Perl. Adam Maloney Systems Administrator Sihope Communications _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Thu Oct 9 11:08:36 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] eMail client In-Reply-To: <3F854E5E.3020709@visi.com> References: <3F84965A.7050703@visi.com> <20031009022053.GA27455@refried.org> <3F854E5E.3020709@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031009160836.GC6619@fandre.com> Have you tried mutt? (/me ducks) On Thu, 09 Oct 2003, Sam MacDonald wrote: > The menus, color, file system view, and the like. > > Sam. > > nate@refried.org wrote: > > >On Wed, Oct 08, 2003 at 05:57:30PM -0500, Sam MacDonald wrote: > > > > > >>Anyone know of an eMail client that has the look and feel of Midnight > >>Commander something totally terminal based but like midnight commander. > >> > >> > > > >What about the look and feel of mc are you trying to get in an email > >client? The vertical split screen? The pull down menus? The command > >line near the bottom? Perhaps you want to just use nmh from the mc > >command line. Is there an older DOS mail reader that you adored and > >want to use for email? > > > >Nate > > > >_______________________________________________ > >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Clay Fandre email: clay at fandre.com PGP Key ID: 0x50DBBB60 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Oct 9 11:20:45 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] future install fest In-Reply-To: <1065714473.5609.50.camel@unixws1> References: <1065705709.5609.38.camel@unixws1> <20031009083532.3c554180.list@slushpupie.com> <3F856CE8.3090801@visi.com> <20031009153610.GA12014@mail.el-swifto.com> <1065714473.5609.50.camel@unixws1> Message-ID: <3F858ADD.70007@visi.com> Yes, but we didn't have a father, so our Uncle would beat us about the head and shoulders causing contusions and temporary unconsciousness, with a wet noodle! Then our other Uncle would send us fight killer rabbits in the hinter lands with the knights that say "nea"! I don't know what was worse the beatings or the knights with all their "neaing" and "clipty clopping" about! Sad bunch really... Sam Adam Maloney wrote: >Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at three o'clock in >the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of hot gravel, go to >work at the mill every day for tuppence a month, come home, and Dad >would beat us around the head and neck with a broken bottle, if we >were LUCKY! > > >I *love* that skit. > >On Thu, 2003-10-09 at 10:36, John J. Trammell wrote: > > >>On Thu, Oct 09, 2003 at 09:12:56AM -0500, Sam MacDonald wrote: >> >> >>>Dang you all were lucky! I was put in a burlap sack, with 50 lbs of >>>rocks, tied closed at the top and tossed in the river! >>> >>> >>> >>Of course, when *I* was a boy, I had it rough. I used to >>*dream* of being put in a burlap sack with 50 pounds of >>rocks, tied closed at the top and tossed in the river! It >>would have been a palace to me. >> >>Apologies to Monty Python, er, Monty Perl. >> >> > >Adam Maloney >Systems Administrator >Sihope Communications > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Thu Oct 9 12:23:16 2003 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] future install fest In-Reply-To: <1065714473.5609.50.camel@unixws1> References: <1065705709.5609.38.camel@unixws1> <20031009083532.3c554180.list@slushpupie.com> <3F856CE8.3090801@visi.com> <20031009153610.GA12014@mail.el-swifto.com> <1065714473.5609.50.camel@unixws1> Message-ID: <20031009172316.GA15089@mail.el-swifto.com> On Thu, Oct 09, 2003 at 10:47:54AM -0500, Adam Maloney wrote: > Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at three o'clock in > the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of hot gravel, go to > work at the mill every day for tuppence a month, come home, and Dad > would beat us around the head and neck with a broken bottle, if we > were LUCKY! > HOT gravel? You were lucky. I used to dream of a bowl of hot gravel, even if only just once a month. -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ben.neigebauer at compellent.com Thu Oct 9 12:25:47 2003 From: ben.neigebauer at compellent.com (Neigebauer, Ben) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cobalt Raq Message-ID: <146431CFD07FE94984B432636FCDF8060FB86B@C1MAIL1.agiliti.net> Has anyone had any experience with a Cobalt Raq? I saw some on ebay cheap, thought it might be good for home. I think they wanted $130. Benjamin E. Neigebauer Software Engineer Compellent Technologies Eden Prairie, MN 55344 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 3607 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031009/238fa640/attachment.bin From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Thu Oct 9 12:54:30 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cobalt Raq In-Reply-To: <146431CFD07FE94984B432636FCDF8060FB86B@C1MAIL1.agiliti.net> References: <146431CFD07FE94984B432636FCDF8060FB86B@C1MAIL1.agiliti.net> Message-ID: <20031009125430.0000245a.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> On Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:25:47 -0500 "Neigebauer, Ben" wrote: > Has anyone had any experience with a Cobalt Raq? Yeah, Do you want to install a different OS on it? I have a Raq4 that is my backup server. I cannot stand Cobalt's Linux distro so I put Debian on it. It's pretty painful, but it can be done. I think you can put Slack or Redhat on it too. It's headless (no video, mouse, keyboard), so you have to install with a serial cable. If you decide to get it and want to put some other version of linux on it, let me know and I can send you some helpful URL's. Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From phptom at wordesign.net Thu Oct 9 13:12:09 2003 From: phptom at wordesign.net (PHPTOm) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] iamdum - I want to switch to command-line mode from x-win Message-ID: I have searched fruitlessly for this... I don't believe it is covered in too many places. I use Redhat9, KDE. How can I switch to non-window use? I want to force myself to learn how to run a server via command-line only. I know how to switch desktops, but how do I turn them off? TOm PS I am looking for a job. I am a web developer/programmer. Please email me if you know of anything. I'll give you 10 dollars if it works out. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Thu Oct 9 13:18:12 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] iamdum - I want to switch to command-line mode from x-win In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031009181812.GG6619@fandre.com> On Thu, 09 Oct 2003, PHPTOm wrote: > I have searched fruitlessly for this... I don't believe it is covered in too > many places. > > I use Redhat9, KDE. How can I switch to non-window use? I want to force > myself to learn how to run a server via command-line only. I know how to > switch desktops, but how do I turn them off? > I haven't run RH for a while (Debian rocks!!!) but this is what I remember... Edit /etc/inittab and change id:5:initdefault: to id:3:initdefault: That will put it into runlevel 3 during a bootup. Then do an "init 3" as root. (or else reboot) > > > PS I am looking for a job. I am a web developer/programmer. Please email > me if you know of anything. I'll give you 10 dollars if it works out. > $10? How about 10%? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From phptom at wordesign.net Thu Oct 9 13:22:19 2003 From: phptom at wordesign.net (PHPTOm) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] iamdum - I want to switch to command-line mode from x-win In-Reply-To: <20031009181812.GG6619@fandre.com> Message-ID: Great, thanks. I will give that a shot. At this point I'd give you my friggin' first born for a new job. -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Clay Fandre Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 1:18 PM To: Tclug-List@Mn-Linux. Org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] iamdum - I want to switch to command-line mode from x-win On Thu, 09 Oct 2003, PHPTOm wrote: > I have searched fruitlessly for this... I don't believe it is covered in too > many places. > > I use Redhat9, KDE. How can I switch to non-window use? I want to force > myself to learn how to run a server via command-line only. I know how to > switch desktops, but how do I turn them off? > I haven't run RH for a while (Debian rocks!!!) but this is what I remember... Edit /etc/inittab and change id:5:initdefault: to id:3:initdefault: That will put it into runlevel 3 during a bootup. Then do an "init 3" as root. (or else reboot) > > > PS I am looking for a job. I am a web developer/programmer. Please email > me if you know of anything. I'll give you 10 dollars if it works out. > $10? How about 10%? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From JAustad at temgweb.com Thu Oct 9 13:30:31 2003 From: JAustad at temgweb.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cobalt Raq Message-ID: <288FAF5565A1A74EA5E35C39E7EE1D420A1BDC51@mail.temgweb.com> I see a ton of security issues come through mailing lists on security problems with the Cobalt distro. I'd install something else on it. > -----Original Message----- > From: Josh Trutwin [mailto:josh@trutwins.homeip.net] > Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 12:55 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Cobalt Raq > > > On Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:25:47 -0500 > "Neigebauer, Ben" wrote: > > > Has anyone had any experience with a Cobalt Raq? > > Yeah, > > Do you want to install a different OS on it? > > I have a Raq4 that is my backup server. I cannot stand > Cobalt's Linux distro so I put Debian on it. It's pretty > painful, but it can be done. I think you can put Slack or > Redhat on it too. It's headless (no video, mouse, keyboard), > so you have to install with a serial cable. If you decide to > get it and want to put some other version of linux on it, let > me know and I can send you some helpful URL's. > > Josh > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From JAustad at temgweb.com Thu Oct 9 13:31:32 2003 From: JAustad at temgweb.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] iamdum - I want to switch to command-line mode from x -win Message-ID: <288FAF5565A1A74EA5E35C39E7EE1D420A1BDC52@mail.temgweb.com> Or you can just press Ctrl-alt-F1 (through f6). ctrl-alt-f7 will put you back into X. -jay > -----Original Message----- > From: PHPTOm [mailto:phptom@wordesign.net] > Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 1:22 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: RE: [TCLUG] iamdum - I want to switch to > command-line mode from > x-win > > > Great, thanks. I will give that a shot. > > > > > At this point I'd give you my friggin' first born for a new job. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Clay Fandre > Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 1:18 PM > To: Tclug-List@Mn-Linux. Org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] iamdum - I want to switch to > command-line mode from > x-win > > > > On Thu, 09 Oct 2003, PHPTOm wrote: > > > I have searched fruitlessly for this... I don't believe it > is covered in > too > > many places. > > > > I use Redhat9, KDE. How can I switch to non-window use? I > want to force > > myself to learn how to run a server via command-line only. > I know how to > > switch desktops, but how do I turn them off? > > > > I haven't run RH for a while (Debian rocks!!!) but this is what I > remember... > > Edit /etc/inittab and change > id:5:initdefault: > > to > > id:3:initdefault: > > That will put it into runlevel 3 during a bootup. > > Then do an "init 3" as root. (or else reboot) > > > > > > > PS I am looking for a job. I am a web > developer/programmer. Please email > > me if you know of anything. I'll give you 10 dollars if it > works out. > > > > $10? How about 10%? > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blutgens at us-admins.com Thu Oct 9 13:31:57 2003 From: blutgens at us-admins.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] eMail client In-Reply-To: <20031009002255.GA22966@fandre.com> References: <3F84965A.7050703@visi.com> <20031009002255.GA22966@fandre.com> Message-ID: <1065724317.9060.4.camel@wtf> On Wed, 2003-10-08 at 19:22, Clay Fandre wrote: > On Wed, 08 Oct 2003, Sam MacDonald wrote: > > > Anyone know of an eMail client that has the look and feel of Midnight > > Commander something totally terminal based but like midnight commander. > > > > I've used mutt but it's leaves a little to be desired. > > "Don't criticize what you don't understand." I love mutt, but its IMAP support is pretty horrific. > > Mutt might the the greatest non-gui mail client ever. Yes, it does > take a little time to understand it, but once you do your mail reading > will never be the same. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blutgens at us-admins.com Thu Oct 9 13:36:13 2003 From: blutgens at us-admins.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] future install fest In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1065724573.9061.7.camel@wtf> On Wed, 2003-10-08 at 21:43, Jerry Jensen wrote: > Hi all. I've recently subscriber to this list. > > I don't drink beer. I do tip; more when the service is superb. I am part > of a non-profit organization. I don't know a debian from a samba **BUT** I > don't like being held hostage to Microsoft. But. MICROSOFT ROCKS! SCO is even BETTER! > > I would like to experiment with a home wireless network before I even think > of installing Linux at work. I have two laptops with Pentium processors and > a Tower with AMD 800 processor. I would like to keep Windows on the tower > (just cause I need to be able to compute while learning this Linux stuff). > > Is there hope for an untrained person to even think of doing anything with > Linux? Nope, no hope at all. You might as well send BillG@hotmail.com your check right now. All kidding aside, watch the list / website for details on the next installfest, much help and information can be had there. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jj at cedarbrook.us Thu Oct 9 13:37:56 2003 From: jj at cedarbrook.us (Jerry Jensen) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] future install fest In-Reply-To: <8110B36515343342A5E85C042A4EBAAA0C2F82@brainerddc.northernpines.local> Message-ID: <8110B36515343342A5E85C042A4EBAAA0C4041@brainerddc.northernpines.local> Thanks for all the encouragement. I am packed to go out of town and will read your comments more carefully when I return. I will come to an Install Fest with all required bits and pieces. However, Oct 18th will not work for me, so I'll have to wait for the next one. ~~Jerry Jensen _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Miroslav.Chowaniok at co.hennepin.mn.us Thu Oct 9 13:29:54 2003 From: Miroslav.Chowaniok at co.hennepin.mn.us (Miroslav.Chowaniok@co.hennepin.mn.us) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] iamdum - I want to switch to command-line mode from x-win Message-ID: edit your /etc/inittab and change your startup level from 5 to 3 # Default runlevel. The runlevels used by RHS are: # 0 - halt (Do NOT set initdefault to this) # 1 - Single user mode # 2 - Multiuser, without NFS (The same as 3, if you do not have networking) # 3 - Full multiuser mode # 4 - unused # 5 - X11 # 6 - reboot (Do NOT set initdefault to this) # id:3:initdefault: MC "PHPTOm" net> cc: Sent by: Subject: [TCLUG] iamdum - I want to switch to command-line mode from x-win tclug-list-admin@m n-linux.org 10/09/2003 01:12 PM Please respond to tclug-list I have searched fruitlessly for this... I don't believe it is covered in too many places. I use Redhat9, KDE. How can I switch to non-window use? I want to force myself to learn how to run a server via command-line only. I know how to switch desktops, but how do I turn them off? TOm PS I am looking for a job. I am a web developer/programmer. Please email me if you know of anything. I'll give you 10 dollars if it works out. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Thu Oct 9 13:46:51 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cobalt Raq In-Reply-To: <288FAF5565A1A74EA5E35C39E7EE1D420A1BDC51@mail.temgweb.com> References: <288FAF5565A1A74EA5E35C39E7EE1D420A1BDC51@mail.temgweb.com> Message-ID: <20031009134651.00005d22.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> On Thu, 9 Oct 2003 13:30:31 -0500 "Austad, Jay" wrote: > I see a ton of security issues come through mailing lists on security > problems with the Cobalt distro. I'd install something else on it. True, they don't do a very good job keeping up, seems to be dying out. The recent long post that has wandered off into the realm of Software Licenses was from my original post looking for a 1U server to replace my friend's current Cobalt Raq4. The hardware is decent, though nothing spectacular, but the OS certainly has its shortcomings... Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ben.neigebauer at compellent.com Thu Oct 9 13:59:41 2003 From: ben.neigebauer at compellent.com (Neigebauer, Ben) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cobalt Raq Message-ID: <146431CFD07FE94984B432636FCDF8060FB86C@C1MAIL1.agiliti.net> Yeah, my intent was to put debian or something on it. Are they decently fast? They have a nice form factor and are pretty cheap. I can include it in my stereo component rack. Benjamin E. Neigebauer Software Engineer Compellent Technologies Eden Prairie, MN 55344 -----Original Message----- From: Austad, Jay [mailto:JAustad@temgweb.com] Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 1:31 PM To: 'tclug-list@mn-linux.org' Subject: RE: [TCLUG] Cobalt Raq I see a ton of security issues come through mailing lists on security problems with the Cobalt distro. I'd install something else on it. > -----Original Message----- > From: Josh Trutwin [mailto:josh@trutwins.homeip.net] > Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 12:55 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Cobalt Raq > > > On Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:25:47 -0500 > "Neigebauer, Ben" wrote: > > > Has anyone had any experience with a Cobalt Raq? > > Yeah, > > Do you want to install a different OS on it? > > I have a Raq4 that is my backup server. I cannot stand > Cobalt's Linux distro so I put Debian on it. It's pretty > painful, but it can be done. I think you can put Slack or > Redhat on it too. It's headless (no video, mouse, keyboard), > so you have to install with a serial cable. If you decide to > get it and want to put some other version of linux on it, let > me know and I can send you some helpful URL's. > > Josh > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.522 / Virus Database: 320 - Release Date: 9/29/2003 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From zibby+tclug at ringworld.org Thu Oct 9 15:09:14 2003 From: zibby+tclug at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Archiving outgoing mail with postfix Message-ID: Currently I have a mail server that keeps a copy of every bit of incoming e-mail. I do this with a simple procmail rule in /etc/procmailrc and alot of extra space on /home: :0c | bzcat -z >> $HOME/.MailArchive.bz2 I want to do something similar for incoming mail, and the closest example I've found so far is using the always_bcc option to dump all mail into a mailbox. To me, this doesn't seem to be all that useful as everyone's mail would end up in one big file. Of course, this comes up because a user (*couch* sales guy *cough*) had his laptop stolen, and of course he was downloading all his mail to his laptop, and keeping who knows how many years of e-mail archived, and now it's all gone and he wants it back. He was happy enough to get his recived mail back, but I always ment to get around to figure out archiving outgoing mail. Guess I just needed a kick in the pants. Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://www.ringworld.org A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From william.layer at comcast.net Thu Oct 9 15:47:18 2003 From: william.layer at comcast.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] iamdum - I want to switch to command-line mode from x -win In-Reply-To: <288FAF5565A1A74EA5E35C39E7EE1D420A1BDC52@mail.temgweb.com> References: <288FAF5565A1A74EA5E35C39E7EE1D420A1BDC52@mail.temgweb.com> Message-ID: <20031009154718.772783d7.william.layer@comcast.net> On Thu, 9 Oct 2003 13:31:32 -0500 "Austad, Jay" wrote: > Or you can just press Ctrl-alt-F1 (through f6). ctrl-alt-f7 will put you > back into X. Sorry to mench, but this exact same question was covered about two weeks ago on *this* very list. The archives work, as do the myriad of newbie HOW-TOs on the net. For future reference, please read this document, before you ask any of the questions covered therein, on the list: http://linux-newbie.sunsite.dk/ -L _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Thu Oct 9 17:26:27 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mind blank on X11 tunnels w/ssh & ssh question In-Reply-To: References: <20031008214454.30323655.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20031009172627.00d5ce58.sfertch@real-time.com> Combining e-mails... On Thu, 9 Oct 2003 09:50:50 -0500 (CDT) Nate Carlson wrote: > add the -v option to your ssh command line, and it'll tell you why it > can't set up x forwarding for you. > Umm, nothing apparent showed up. If I do ssh -X hostname I can forward X. I'm looking for the environment variable to allow this to work for all users without having to specify the -X option each ssh connection. Sam wrote: >When I had X windows on my Redhat machine (KDE) I used Cigwin with this >as the process. Not using Cygwin, and have a temporary workaround as shown above. Greg wrote: >man sshd_config >man ssh_config >FWIW, the following: > # cat /etc/ssh/ssh_config >Host * >ForwardX11 yes >Port 22 >Protocol 2 > ># cat /etc/ssh/sshd_config >Port 22 >Protocol 2 >X11Forwarding yes >...etc, etc, etc... Are these on your local system or the one you're connected to and tunneling from? I can get X11 to forward to my Windows machine, or another system (older) from the other (remote) system that I'm connected to without having to specify the -X option. I've compared the ssh_config and sshd_config files, but the versions of ssh are different. I did read the man pages for ssh previously but what I understood as being valid options for this to work, didn't. Reading thru the ssh_config and sshd_config man pages, it appears to say the same as what I saw in the ssh manpage. I've done some googling, and everything I've seen so far points to the issue being the remote system. Heck, I even found a reply to one of Jima's ssh posts on a list about going from system 1->2->5->others and allowing forward to go thru all of those, and the person who replied said that didn't work. I've had this problem before, but it was an issue with the forwarding disabled on the system I'm connecting to. Enabling it, then restarting ssh allowed it to forward from the other system. This time, it's the opposite. It's the system I'm locally on that isn't allowing the forwarding, unless I specify the -X option. -- Shawn The difficult we do today; the impossible take a little longer. Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Thu Oct 9 17:34:19 2003 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mind blank on X11 tunnels w/ssh & ssh question In-Reply-To: <20031009172627.00d5ce58.sfertch@real-time.com> References: <20031008214454.30323655.sfertch@real-time.com> <20031009172627.00d5ce58.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Shawn wrote: > Umm, nothing apparent showed up. If I do ssh -X hostname I can forward > X. I'm looking for the environment variable to allow this to work for > all users without having to specify the -X option each ssh connection. Oh, sorry, misread your post. :) In /etc/ssh/ssh_config, on the client, if you add: Host * ForwardX11 yes does that take care of it? -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Thu Oct 9 17:44:56 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mind blank on X11 tunnels w/ssh & ssh question In-Reply-To: References: <20031008214454.30323655.sfertch@real-time.com> <20031009172627.00d5ce58.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20031009174456.6119d091.sfertch@real-time.com> On Thu, 9 Oct 2003 17:34:19 -0500 (CDT) Nate Carlson wrote: > On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Shawn wrote: > > Umm, nothing apparent showed up. If I do ssh -X hostname I can > > forward X. I'm looking for the environment variable to allow this > > to work for all users without having to specify the -X option each > > ssh connection. > > Oh, sorry, misread your post. :) > > In /etc/ssh/ssh_config, on the client, if you add: > > Host * > ForwardX11 yes > > does that take care of it? > Yeah, I'm an air-head. I misread that part of the ssh_config man page. Had to read over it again. Now it works. =P Read, read, then re-read to make sure you (I) understand. Must be all the coding I had to learn yesterday and today that messed up my head..... -- Shawn The difficult we do today; the impossible take a little longer. Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From crc1021 at myrealbox.com Fri Oct 10 04:19:59 2003 From: crc1021 at myrealbox.com (Eric Lofstad) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... In-Reply-To: <3F7AF009.2050409@ppdonline.com> References: <3F7AF009.2050409@ppdonline.com> Message-ID: <20031010041959.7dc8ef89.crc1021@myrealbox.com> Not much response so far, and all from admin types. Does anyone use programs that don't just administer computers? A while back I was looking for a 3D Cad program to play around with some remodeling ideas. The best I found was Cycas (www.cycas.de). I still found it a little lacking. Are there better ones out there? Ideally it would have a good library of components (doors, windows, furniture,etc), allow for easy changes on the fly (stretch a wall), and have texture ability. To top it off, it should allow for a real time Doom-like walk through (blowing up the potted plants would be a nice option). Eric On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 08:17:29 -0700 Ben Bargabus wrote: > I was bored and thinking that it would be interesting to hear what some > of your favorite Linux/Unix programs are. Maybe an interesting response > will inspire me to learn something new. Anyway, what are your favorite > programs, why, and what do you use them for? (if any of you are as > bored as me today maybe this will start an interesting thread ;-) > Later, > Ben. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Fri Oct 10 06:31:03 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... In-Reply-To: <20031010041959.7dc8ef89.crc1021@myrealbox.com> References: <3F7AF009.2050409@ppdonline.com> <20031010041959.7dc8ef89.crc1021@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: <20031010063103.3607941e.sfertch@real-time.com> On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 04:19:59 -0500 Eric Lofstad wrote: > Not much response so far, and all from admin types. Does anyone use > programs that don't just administer computers? > So far, most of the programs that I use on Linux are basic programs/utilities that are included with the kernel/ditros but aren't extra packages. Someone mentioned going into /usr/bin and doing man against the various commands there, something which I try and do from time to time. Otherwise, packages/programs that I use outside of this are: Acroreader Open Office gkrellm Sylpheed (GUI mail. sorry, don't like mutt or pine) X-CDRoast > A while back I was looking for a 3D Cad program to play around with > some remodeling ideas. The best I found was Cycas (www.cycas.de). I > still found it a little lacking. Are there better ones out there? > Ideally it would have a good library of components (doors, windows, > furniture,etc), allow for easy changes on the fly (stretch a wall), > and have texture ability. To top it off, it should allow for a real > time Doom-like walk through (blowing up the potted plants would be a > nice option). > I'll have to check this out. I've been looking for a relatively decent CAD program. How is it for ease of use? -- Shawn The difficult we do today; the impossible take a little longer. Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Fri Oct 10 07:14:44 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... In-Reply-To: <20031010041959.7dc8ef89.crc1021@myrealbox.com> References: <3F7AF009.2050409@ppdonline.com> <20031010041959.7dc8ef89.crc1021@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: <3F86A2B4.3030900@visi.com> gimp I like gimp, I needed to make some multi-layered gif's for a website once it worked great. I made a golf ball roll across the screen. Sam. Eric Lofstad wrote: >Not much response so far, and all from admin types. Does anyone use programs that don't just administer computers? > >A while back I was looking for a 3D Cad program to play around with some remodeling ideas. The best I found was Cycas (www.cycas.de). I still found it a little lacking. Are there better ones out there? Ideally it would have a good library of components (doors, windows, furniture,etc), allow for easy changes on the fly (stretch a wall), and have texture ability. To top it off, it should allow for a real time Doom-like walk through (blowing up the potted plants would be a nice option). > > >Eric > > > >On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 08:17:29 -0700 >Ben Bargabus wrote: > > > >>I was bored and thinking that it would be interesting to hear what some >>of your favorite Linux/Unix programs are. Maybe an interesting response >>will inspire me to learn something new. Anyway, what are your favorite >>programs, why, and what do you use them for? (if any of you are as >>bored as me today maybe this will start an interesting thread ;-) >>Later, >>Ben. >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From list at slushpupie.com Fri Oct 10 07:25:15 2003 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... In-Reply-To: <20031010041959.7dc8ef89.crc1021@myrealbox.com> References: <3F7AF009.2050409@ppdonline.com> <20031010041959.7dc8ef89.crc1021@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: <20031010072515.7fe084ea.list@slushpupie.com> On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 04:19:59 -0500 Eric Lofstad wrote: >Not much response so far, and all from admin types. Does anyone use >programs that don't just administer computers? Sure, on debian there is there is the bsdgames package, which has some fun things ported from BSD. Some of my favorites out of there: wtf - Tells you what the f*** things stand for morse - convert things to/from morse code, punch cards, or paper tape formats Some other cool things ported from BSD are cal (calendar) and banner (print large banners). Jay _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Fri Oct 10 08:13:32 2003 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] eMail client In-Reply-To: <20031008204933.2eb2d13d.list@slushpupie.com> References: <3F84965A.7050703@visi.com> <20031009004142.GF12485@techmonkeys.org> <20031008204933.2eb2d13d.list@slushpupie.com> Message-ID: <1065791612.4355.62.camel@3po> On Wed, 2003-10-08 at 20:49, Jay Kline wrote: > One of the problems I have had with most console based mail clients is I > have a lot of sub folders that things get sorted into, and I have yet to > find a decent way of summarizing which folders have how many new > messages, etc. Ill take a look at your config tonight and see if that > makes life any easier, but does anyone else work like this? Also, I > generally use IMAP because keeping a consant connection open to the > server isnt always possible (dumb sonicwall routers...) I, personally, cannot live without a 3-pane view of folders, messages, and the message I'm viewing. I end up using Evolution for my mail, which is kind of like using a sledgehammer to drive a nail. Before that, I used Sylpheed, but I cut my teeth on Netscape mail (2.x, 3.x, 4.x). I got rid of that when Mozilla started to be a better browser, but didn't yet have decent mail capabilities. I'd like to use IMAP for mobility purposes, but I've never been able to configure it properly (and I had trouble when having two systems accessing an IMAP mailbox simultaneously, even if one client is just sitting there -- but that was years ago, so maybe that was just a bug). However, I can get acceptable remote accesss performance when using appropriate X11 protocol caching/compression software (actually, `ssh -C' is all I need these days), as long as I don't have to deal with a lot of mail. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ I used to get high on life / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ but lately I've built up a \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) resistance. [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031010/731b4a0e/attachment.pgp From JAustad at temgweb.com Fri Oct 10 08:44:07 2003 From: JAustad at temgweb.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] eMail client Message-ID: <288FAF5565A1A74EA5E35C39E7EE1D420A1BDC59@mail.temgweb.com> You'll have IMAP problems with multiple clients accessing it at one time if you use a standard mail spool. If you use Maildir, you shouldn't have these problems. I use Maildir, which is supported by qmail and postfix (not sure about others), and I don't have any problems. > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Hicks [mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu] > Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 8:14 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] eMail client > > > On Wed, 2003-10-08 at 20:49, Jay Kline wrote: > > One of the problems I have had with most console based mail > clients is I > > have a lot of sub folders that things get sorted into, and > I have yet to > > find a decent way of summarizing which folders have how many new > > messages, etc. Ill take a look at your config tonight and > see if that > > makes life any easier, but does anyone else work like this? Also, I > > generally use IMAP because keeping a consant connection open to the > > server isnt always possible (dumb sonicwall routers...) > > I, personally, cannot live without a 3-pane view of folders, messages, > and the message I'm viewing. I end up using Evolution for my mail, > which is kind of like using a sledgehammer to drive a nail. Before > that, I used Sylpheed, but I cut my teeth on Netscape mail (2.x, 3.x, > 4.x). I got rid of that when Mozilla started to be a better browser, > but didn't yet have decent mail capabilities. > > I'd like to use IMAP for mobility purposes, but I've never > been able to > configure it properly (and I had trouble when having two systems > accessing an IMAP mailbox simultaneously, even if one client is just > sitting there -- but that was years ago, so maybe that was > just a bug). > > However, I can get acceptable remote accesss performance when using > appropriate X11 protocol caching/compression software (actually, `ssh > -C' is all I need these days), as long as I don't have to deal with a > lot of mail. > > -- > _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ I used to get high on life > / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ but lately I've built up a > \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) resistance. > [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | > mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jima at beer.tclug.org Fri Oct 10 09:09:29 2003 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... In-Reply-To: <20031010041959.7dc8ef89.crc1021@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, Eric Lofstad wrote: > Not much response so far, and all from admin types. Does anyone use > programs that don't just administer computers? I've held off responding to this thread, mainly because I thought people would have mentioned some of my favorites. I guess not. Here are a few of mine, in no particular order. (Yes, I'm an admin type, but these are mostly general-purpose.) 1. wget - Handy command-line http/ftp client. To quote someone from the UCLA LUG, "wget is my tiny little god." 2. openssh - Nice for remote access. One of my most-used tools. 3. screen - Console-based multi-windowing system. Allows applications to continue running even after you've logged out of a system. I've been using it for 8+ years, and am still finding out about its features. One of my favorite apps to introduce people to. :) 4. irssi - IRC client. Lots of features; allows scripting in perl. 5. centericq - Multi-protocol console-based IM client. Supports icq, yahoo, aim, msn, irc, jabber, and evidently LiveJournal (new in 4.9.7, I guess). 6. nagios - Formerly known as NetSaint. Yeah, it's monitoring software, but I definitely like it. 7. ltsp - Linux Terminal Server Project. Not really an app, more of a setup, and a little more involved than the others on this list, but still quite useful. 8. FreeS/WAN - Linux IPsec implementation. It's more than an application, as it interacts with the kernel rather directly, but I'm still putting it on my list. See our very own Nate Carlson's howto for instructions on setting up VPN connections between Win2K/WinXP and Linux: http://www.natecarlson.com/linux/ipsec-x509.php Can't think of any more ATM. Enjoy. Jima Links: 1. http://www.gnu.org/software/wget/wget.html 2. http://www.openssh.org/ 3. http://www.gnu.org/software/screen/screen.html 4. http://www.irssi.org/ 5. http://konst.org.ua/centericq/ 6. http://www.nagios.org/ 7. http://www.ltsp.org/ 8. http://www.freeswan.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com Fri Oct 10 09:19:34 2003 From: Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com (Lansing, Dan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... Message-ID: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD526FAC7@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> Ok I guess I'll throw my 2 cents in.... gkrellm-coolest util ever mc-hell yeah....i love this thing fluxbox-best window manager ever ssh-this rocks makes my life a much, much better place pine-I used this with my first isp in 94 when the internet access they had for me was only text vi-no more needs to be said, I don't want to start a flame war cant think of anymore right now it seems like every time I root around my *nix boxen I find an app that just makes my day....i guess I'm easy to please Dan Lansing -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Ben Bargabus Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 10:17 AM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... I was bored and thinking that it would be interesting to hear what some of your favorite Linux/Unix programs are. Maybe an interesting response will inspire me to learn something new. Anyway, what are your favorite programs, why, and what do you use them for? (if any of you are as bored as me today maybe this will start an interesting thread ;-) Later, Ben. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Fri Oct 10 09:26:06 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] eMail client In-Reply-To: <288FAF5565A1A74EA5E35C39E7EE1D420A1BDC59@mail.temgweb.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, Austad, Jay wrote: > You'll have IMAP problems with multiple clients accessing it at one time if > you use a standard mail spool. If you use Maildir, you shouldn't have these > problems. I use Maildir, which is supported by qmail and postfix (not sure > about others), and I don't have any problems. actually it is supported by any MTA that uses procmail for delivery, after that you will need an IMAPd/POPd that supports Maildir all you want to do is something like this: DEFAULT="$HOME/Maildir/" DROPPRIVS=yes :0 fw |/usr/bin/spamc INCLUDERC="$HOME/.procmailrc" [B Munir Nassar RedConcepts.NET http://redconcepts.net/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Fri Oct 10 09:46:26 2003 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (Johnny Fulcrum) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wireless network question Message-ID: Hi- Need a push in the right direction here: I have a neighbor who'd be up to pitching in for wireless gear so that he can use my cable modem connection. He's an older gent, who doesn't yet have a computer nor a connection. He just got a new job and told me he needs to buy a computer to "connect to the mainframe" at work, get email and open office docs. I have a 400 Mhz Pent for him and can load it with the apporpriate software... should be enough power for what he needs. For the connection though, we thought it would be keen if we could both use my cable connection - over a wireless network. There's one house inbetween our houses, but I'm up on a hill and have clear view to his roof. I assume a wireless connection be done here - but I may need some boosters/antenna. (?) Security - I have a old 486 firewall (IPCOP - two nics and can add more if need be) and a residental gateway (gateway is basically a hub now that the 486 is in place!) between my computers and the WAN connection - I think I'd want to dangle the Wireeless access point off the firewall in it's own "zone" (on it's own NIC). (?) I'd want to protect him (via firewalling) too - but not want the wireless network to "see" my current LAN. I do have some laptops in house - it'd be nice to use the wireless network myself - so I may want/need to get from the wireless to my LAN. I've been googling - and there's lots of google out there on the subject. Anyone know of a doc or a project that has had similar goals? Hardware - I've searched through the TC wireless archives and google - there's lots of discussion on hardware - I'm a bit overwhelmed! _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Fri Oct 10 09:59:48 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F86C964.8040901@visi.com> I have a question about screen. Is it like using the Ctrl+Alt+ F# or Can it have a display with 4 sections. Dam me for being a visual learner but I have a very hard time visualizing something I have not sseen with my own eyes. I use to us a mainframe Terminal that did a display like the example below for CICS, Netview, TSO, and other systems . Example: -------------------------------------------- | $ | $ | | | | | | | | | | -------------------------------------------- | $ | $ | | | | | | | | | | _________________________ Sam. Jima wrote: >On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, Eric Lofstad wrote: > > >>Not much response so far, and all from admin types. Does anyone use >>programs that don't just administer computers? >> >> > > I've held off responding to this thread, mainly because I thought people >would have mentioned some of my favorites. I guess not. > Here are a few of mine, in no particular order. (Yes, I'm an admin type, >but these are mostly general-purpose.) > >1. wget - Handy command-line http/ftp client. To quote someone from the >UCLA LUG, "wget is my tiny little god." > >2. openssh - Nice for remote access. One of my most-used tools. > >3. screen - Console-based multi-windowing system. Allows applications to >continue running even after you've logged out of a system. I've been >using it for 8+ years, and am still finding out about its features. One >of my favorite apps to introduce people to. :) > >4. irssi - IRC client. Lots of features; allows scripting in perl. > >5. centericq - Multi-protocol console-based IM client. Supports icq, >yahoo, aim, msn, irc, jabber, and evidently LiveJournal (new in 4.9.7, I >guess). > >6. nagios - Formerly known as NetSaint. Yeah, it's monitoring software, >but I definitely like it. > >7. ltsp - Linux Terminal Server Project. Not really an app, more of a >setup, and a little more involved than the others on this list, but still >quite useful. > >8. FreeS/WAN - Linux IPsec implementation. It's more than an application, >as it interacts with the kernel rather directly, but I'm still putting it >on my list. See our very own Nate Carlson's howto for instructions on >setting up VPN connections between Win2K/WinXP and Linux: > >http://www.natecarlson.com/linux/ipsec-x509.php > > > Can't think of any more ATM. Enjoy. > > Jima > >Links: > >1. http://www.gnu.org/software/wget/wget.html >2. http://www.openssh.org/ >3. http://www.gnu.org/software/screen/screen.html >4. http://www.irssi.org/ >5. http://konst.org.ua/centericq/ >6. http://www.nagios.org/ >7. http://www.ltsp.org/ >8. http://www.freeswan.org/ > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Fri Oct 10 09:55:01 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Archiving outgoing mail with postfix In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031010145500.GB28735@fandre.com> You running sendmail? http://www.modulo.ro/synonym/ On Thu, 09 Oct 2003, Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) wrote: > Currently I have a mail server that keeps a copy of every bit of incoming > e-mail. I do this with a simple procmail rule in /etc/procmailrc and alot > of extra space on /home: > > :0c > | bzcat -z >> $HOME/.MailArchive.bz2 > > I want to do something similar for incoming mail, and the closest example > I've found so far is using the always_bcc option to dump all mail into a > mailbox. To me, this doesn't seem to be all that useful as everyone's mail > would end up in one big file. > > Of course, this comes up because a user (*couch* sales guy *cough*) had > his laptop stolen, and of course he was downloading all his mail to his > laptop, and keeping who knows how many years of e-mail archived, and now > it's all gone and he wants it back. He was happy enough to get his recived > mail back, but I always ment to get around to figure out archiving > outgoing mail. Guess I just needed a kick in the pants. > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erik at andersonfam.org Fri Oct 10 10:01:29 2003 From: erik at andersonfam.org (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... In-Reply-To: <3F86C964.8040901@visi.com> References: <3F86C964.8040901@visi.com> Message-ID: <3F86C9C9.3080804@andersonfam.org> I'm not sure if it's possible to do 4 "quadrants" with screen, but it *is* possible to split the screen up vertically. Does that make sense? Example: ------------------------------------------- | $ | | | | | | | | | | | | | ------------------------------------------- | $ | | | | | | | | | | | | | -------------------------------------------| | $ | | | | | | | | | | | | | -------------------------------------------- But it also has some functionality like the Ctrl-Alt-Fx. -Erik Sam MacDonald wrote: > I have a question about screen. > > Is it like using the Ctrl+Alt+ F# > or > Can it have a display with 4 sections. > Dam me for being a visual learner but I have a very hard time > visualizing something > I have not sseen with my own eyes. I use to us a mainframe Terminal > that did a display like the example below for CICS, Netview, TSO, and > other systems > . > Example: > -------------------------------------------- > | $ | $ | > | | | > | | | > | | | > -------------------------------------------- > | $ | $ | > | | | > | | | > | | | > _________________________ > > Sam. > > Jima wrote: > >> On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, Eric Lofstad wrote: >> >> >>> Not much response so far, and all from admin types. Does anyone use >>> programs that don't just administer computers? >>> >> >> >> I've held off responding to this thread, mainly because I thought >> people would have mentioned some of my favorites. I guess not. >> Here are a few of mine, in no particular order. (Yes, I'm an admin >> type, but these are mostly general-purpose.) >> >> 1. wget - Handy command-line http/ftp client. To quote someone from >> the UCLA LUG, "wget is my tiny little god." >> >> 2. openssh - Nice for remote access. One of my most-used tools. >> >> 3. screen - Console-based multi-windowing system. Allows applications >> to continue running even after you've logged out of a system. I've >> been using it for 8+ years, and am still finding out about its >> features. One of my favorite apps to introduce people to. :) >> >> 4. irssi - IRC client. Lots of features; allows scripting in perl. >> >> 5. centericq - Multi-protocol console-based IM client. Supports icq, >> yahoo, aim, msn, irc, jabber, and evidently LiveJournal (new in 4.9.7, >> I guess). >> >> 6. nagios - Formerly known as NetSaint. Yeah, it's monitoring >> software, but I definitely like it. >> 7. ltsp - Linux Terminal Server Project. Not really an app, more of a >> setup, and a little more involved than the others on this list, but >> still quite useful. >> >> 8. FreeS/WAN - Linux IPsec implementation. It's more than an >> application, as it interacts with the kernel rather directly, but I'm >> still putting it on my list. See our very own Nate Carlson's howto >> for instructions on setting up VPN connections between Win2K/WinXP and >> Linux: >> >> http://www.natecarlson.com/linux/ipsec-x509.php >> >> >> Can't think of any more ATM. Enjoy. >> >> Jima >> >> Links: >> >> 1. http://www.gnu.org/software/wget/wget.html >> 2. http://www.openssh.org/ >> 3. http://www.gnu.org/software/screen/screen.html >> 4. http://www.irssi.org/ >> 5. http://konst.org.ua/centericq/ >> 6. http://www.nagios.org/ >> 7. http://www.ltsp.org/ >> 8. http://www.freeswan.org/ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Fri Oct 10 10:08:25 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wireless network question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F86CB69.5000308@visi.com> Is it OK for the data he (would be) transferring over wireless, to be transfered over wireless? My point is some companies don't want any data transfered over wireless. It would be bad to be liable if data was hijacked. I know all the security arguments but some companies just don't want wireless used with their data, it is their data after all. Sam. Johnny Fulcrum wrote: > > Hi- > > Need a push in the right direction here: > > I have a neighbor who'd be up to pitching in for wireless gear so that > he can use my cable modem connection. He's an older gent, who doesn't > yet have a computer nor a connection. He just got a new job and told > me he needs to buy a computer to "connect to the mainframe" at work, > get email and open office docs. I have a 400 Mhz Pent for him and can > load it with the apporpriate software... should be enough power for > what he needs. > > For the connection though, we thought it would be keen if we could > both use my cable connection - over a wireless network. There's one > house inbetween our houses, but I'm up on a hill and have clear view > to his roof. > > I assume a wireless connection be done here - but I may need some > boosters/antenna. (?) > > Security - I have a old 486 firewall (IPCOP - two nics and can add > more if need be) and a residental gateway (gateway is basically a hub > now that the 486 is in place!) between my computers and the WAN > connection - I think I'd want to dangle the Wireeless access point off > the firewall in it's own "zone" (on it's own NIC). (?) > > I'd want to protect him (via firewalling) too - but not want the > wireless network to "see" my current LAN. > > I do have some laptops in house - it'd be nice to use the wireless > network myself - so I may want/need to get from the wireless to my LAN. > > I've been googling - and there's lots of google out there on the > subject. Anyone know of a doc or a project that has had similar goals? > Hardware - I've searched through the TC wireless archives and google - > there's lots of discussion on hardware - I'm a bit overwhelmed! > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Fri Oct 10 10:13:43 2003 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wireless network question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, Johnny Fulcrum wrote: > For the connection though, we thought it would be keen if we could both > use my cable connection - over a wireless network. There's one house > inbetween our houses, but I'm up on a hill and have clear view to his > roof. Note that doing this probably violates the AUP for your cable connection. > I assume a wireless connection be done here - but I may need some > boosters/antenna. (?) Sure sounds like it. If it's only a couple hundred feet, it may just work. Otherwise, you may need to throw an antenna on the roof from the AP at your house, and a small antenna on the card for his computer. > Security - I have a old 486 firewall (IPCOP - two nics and can add more > if need be) and a residental gateway (gateway is basically a hub now > that the 486 is in place!) between my computers and the WAN connection - > I think I'd want to dangle the Wireeless access point off the firewall > in it's own "zone" (on it's own NIC). (?) > > I'd want to protect him (via firewalling) too - but not want the > wireless network to "see" my current LAN. That's pretty much how I do my wireless networks. If I want access to my current LAN, I VPN back into the firewall. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From list at slushpupie.com Fri Oct 10 10:15:23 2003 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wireless network question In-Reply-To: <3F86CB69.5000308@visi.com> References: <3F86CB69.5000308@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031010101523.0165890d.list@slushpupie.com> On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:08:25 -0500 Sam MacDonald wrote: >Is it OK for the data he (would be) transferring over wireless, to be >transfered over wireless? This can be generally overcome by using ipsec for the wireless link (on top of the wep you will be running already). If that link is secured by ipsec (freeswan or whatever) your data is more private going over the airwaves than it is going over the cable modem. Also- most company's who worry about that sort of thing have VPN applications that do the security for them. As a network administrator, you have to assume that each individual's home computer is completely insecure. Jay _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Fri Oct 10 10:23:17 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... In-Reply-To: <3F86C9C9.3080804@andersonfam.org> References: <3F86C964.8040901@visi.com> <3F86C9C9.3080804@andersonfam.org> Message-ID: <3F86CEE5.9000501@visi.com> Question 2. Can I do 2 quadrants horizontally ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | $ | $ | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Then C+A+F# and so on... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | $ | $ | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [ASCI art is so much fun!] :-) I'm not opposed to the following but I guess (for me) the horizontal is visually more pleasing. I guess it's just a question of personal display "real estate" use -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | $ | | | | | | | | | | | | | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | $ | | | | | | | | | | | | | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- All that and I still need to get my mouse going.... Sam. Erik Anderson wrote: > I'm not sure if it's possible to do 4 "quadrants" with screen, but it > *is* possible to split the screen up vertically. Does that make sense? > > Example: > ------------------------------------------- > | $ | > | | > | | > | | > | | > | | > | | > ------------------------------------------- > | $ | > | | > | | > | | > | | > | | > | | > -------------------------------------------| > | $ | > | | > | | > | | > | | > | | > | | > -------------------------------------------- > > But it also has some functionality like the Ctrl-Alt-Fx. > > -Erik > > Sam MacDonald wrote: > >> I have a question about screen. >> >> Is it like using the Ctrl+Alt+ F# >> or >> Can it have a display with 4 sections. >> Dam me for being a visual learner but I have a very hard time >> visualizing something >> I have not sseen with my own eyes. I use to us a mainframe >> Terminal that did a display like the example below for CICS, >> Netview, TSO, and other systems >> . >> Example: >> -------------------------------------------- >> | $ | $ | >> | | | >> | | | >> | | | >> -------------------------------------------- >> | $ | $ | >> | | | >> | | | >> | | | >> _________________________ >> >> Sam. >> >> Jima wrote: >> >>> On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, Eric Lofstad wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Not much response so far, and all from admin types. Does anyone >>>> use programs that don't just administer computers? >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I've held off responding to this thread, mainly because I thought >>> people would have mentioned some of my favorites. I guess not. >>> Here are a few of mine, in no particular order. (Yes, I'm an admin >>> type, but these are mostly general-purpose.) >>> >>> 1. wget - Handy command-line http/ftp client. To quote someone from >>> the UCLA LUG, "wget is my tiny little god." >>> >>> 2. openssh - Nice for remote access. One of my most-used tools. >>> >>> 3. screen - Console-based multi-windowing system. Allows >>> applications to continue running even after you've logged out of a >>> system. I've been using it for 8+ years, and am still finding out >>> about its features. One of my favorite apps to introduce people to. :) >>> >>> 4. irssi - IRC client. Lots of features; allows scripting in perl. >>> >>> 5. centericq - Multi-protocol console-based IM client. Supports >>> icq, yahoo, aim, msn, irc, jabber, and evidently LiveJournal (new in >>> 4.9.7, I guess). >>> >>> 6. nagios - Formerly known as NetSaint. Yeah, it's monitoring >>> software, but I definitely like it. 7. ltsp - Linux Terminal Server >>> Project. Not really an app, more of a setup, and a little more >>> involved than the others on this list, but still quite useful. >>> >>> 8. FreeS/WAN - Linux IPsec implementation. It's more than an >>> application, as it interacts with the kernel rather directly, but >>> I'm still putting it on my list. See our very own Nate Carlson's >>> howto for instructions on setting up VPN connections between >>> Win2K/WinXP and Linux: >>> >>> http://www.natecarlson.com/linux/ipsec-x509.php >>> >>> >>> Can't think of any more ATM. Enjoy. >>> >>> Jima >>> >>> Links: >>> >>> 1. http://www.gnu.org/software/wget/wget.html >>> 2. http://www.openssh.org/ >>> 3. http://www.gnu.org/software/screen/screen.html >>> 4. http://www.irssi.org/ >>> 5. http://konst.org.ua/centericq/ >>> 6. http://www.nagios.org/ >>> 7. http://www.ltsp.org/ >>> 8. http://www.freeswan.org/ >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Fri Oct 10 10:20:21 2003 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... In-Reply-To: <3F86C9C9.3080804@andersonfam.org> References: <3F86C964.8040901@visi.com> <3F86C9C9.3080804@andersonfam.org> Message-ID: <20031010152021.GA16931@mail.el-swifto.com> On Fri, Oct 10, 2003 at 10:01:29AM -0500, Erik Anderson wrote: > I'm not sure if it's possible to do 4 "quadrants" with screen, but it > *is* possible to split the screen up vertically. Does that make > sense? How do you do that? I've looked in "man screen" and nothing leaps out, except for the definition: Screen is a full-screen window manager that multiplexes a physical terminal between several processes (typically interactive shells). JT P.S. - Trim yer posts. -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Fri Oct 10 10:22:13 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Archiving outgoing mail with postfix In-Reply-To: <20031010145500.GB28735@fandre.com> References: <20031010145500.GB28735@fandre.com> Message-ID: <20031010152213.GE28735@fandre.com> I'm sure there is some way to extract the "To" header out of the mail message with procmail and use that to save the mail file. (simple example that is untested) :0c TO=| egrep "^To:" :0c | bzcat -z >> /home/saved_messages/$TO.bz2 On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, Clay Fandre wrote: > You running sendmail? > > http://www.modulo.ro/synonym/ > > > On Thu, 09 Oct 2003, Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) wrote: > > > Currently I have a mail server that keeps a copy of every bit of incoming > > e-mail. I do this with a simple procmail rule in /etc/procmailrc and alot > > of extra space on /home: > > > > :0c > > | bzcat -z >> $HOME/.MailArchive.bz2 > > > > I want to do something similar for incoming mail, and the closest example > > I've found so far is using the always_bcc option to dump all mail into a > > mailbox. To me, this doesn't seem to be all that useful as everyone's mail > > would end up in one big file. > > > > Of course, this comes up because a user (*couch* sales guy *cough*) had > > his laptop stolen, and of course he was downloading all his mail to his > > laptop, and keeping who knows how many years of e-mail archived, and now > > it's all gone and he wants it back. He was happy enough to get his recived > > mail back, but I always ment to get around to figure out archiving > > outgoing mail. Guess I just needed a kick in the pants. > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Clay Fandre email: clay at fandre.com PGP Key ID: 0x50DBBB60 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erik at andersonfam.org Fri Oct 10 10:25:52 2003 From: erik at andersonfam.org (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... In-Reply-To: <20031010152021.GA16931@mail.el-swifto.com> References: <3F86C964.8040901@visi.com> <3F86C9C9.3080804@andersonfam.org> <20031010152021.GA16931@mail.el-swifto.com> Message-ID: <3F86CF80.8070901@andersonfam.org> John J. Trammell wrote: > How do you do that? I've looked in "man screen" and nothing > leaps out, except for the definition: Once screen is loaded, do a Ctrl-a, Shift-S. This creates a split. You can do it again to create more splits. Do a Ctrl-a Tab to switch between windows. When you switch to a new split for the first time, you'll need to do a Ctrl-a, Ctrl-c to create a new shell there. -Erik _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Fri Oct 10 10:24:45 2003 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (Johnny Fulcrum) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wireless network question In-Reply-To: <3F86CB69.5000308@visi.com> References: <3F86CB69.5000308@visi.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:08:25 -0500, Sam MacDonald wrote: > Is it OK for the data he (would be) transferring over wireless, to be > transfered over wireless? Oooo... good point - I'll make sure to bring that up. > > My point is some companies don't want any data transfered over > wireless. It would be bad to be liable if data was hijacked. I know > all the security arguments but some companies just don't want wireless > used with their data, it is their data after all. > > Sam. > > Johnny Fulcrum wrote: > >> >> Hi- >> >> Need a push in the right direction here: >> >> I have a neighbor who'd be up to pitching in for wireless gear so that >> he can use my cable modem connection. He's an older gent, who doesn't >> yet have a computer nor a connection. He just got a new job and told >> me he needs to buy a computer to "connect to the mainframe" at work, >> get email and open office docs. I have a 400 Mhz Pent for him and can >> load it with the apporpriate software... should be enough power for >> what he needs. >> >> For the connection though, we thought it would be keen if we could both >> use my cable connection - over a wireless network. There's one house >> inbetween our houses, but I'm up on a hill and have clear view to his >> roof. >> >> I assume a wireless connection be done here - but I may need some >> boosters/antenna. (?) >> >> Security - I have a old 486 firewall (IPCOP - two nics and can add >> more if need be) and a residental gateway (gateway is basically a hub >> now that the 486 is in place!) between my computers and the WAN >> connection - I think I'd want to dangle the Wireeless access point off >> the firewall in it's own "zone" (on it's own NIC). (?) >> >> I'd want to protect him (via firewalling) too - but not want the >> wireless network to "see" my current LAN. >> >> I do have some laptops in house - it'd be nice to use the wireless >> network myself - so I may want/need to get from the wireless to my LAN. >> >> I've been googling - and there's lots of google out there on the >> subject. Anyone know of a doc or a project that has had similar goals? >> Hardware - I've searched through the TC wireless archives and google - >> there's lots of discussion on hardware - I'm a bit overwhelmed! >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erik at andersonfam.org Fri Oct 10 10:29:42 2003 From: erik at andersonfam.org (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... In-Reply-To: <3F86CF80.8070901@andersonfam.org> References: <3F86C964.8040901@visi.com> <3F86C9C9.3080804@andersonfam.org> <20031010152021.GA16931@mail.el-swifto.com> <3F86CF80.8070901@andersonfam.org> Message-ID: <3F86D066.20300@andersonfam.org> Here is a good site for screen questions... http://www.math.fu-berlin.de/~guckes/screen/index.php3 -Erik Erik Anderson wrote: > John J. Trammell wrote: > >> How do you do that? I've looked in "man screen" and nothing >> leaps out, except for the definition: > > > Once screen is loaded, do a Ctrl-a, Shift-S. This creates a split. You > can do it again to create more splits. Do a Ctrl-a Tab to switch > between windows. When you switch to a new split for the first time, > you'll need to do a Ctrl-a, Ctrl-c to create a new shell there. > > -Erik > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Fri Oct 10 10:32:25 2003 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... In-Reply-To: <3F86CF80.8070901@andersonfam.org> References: <3F86C964.8040901@visi.com> <3F86C9C9.3080804@andersonfam.org> <20031010152021.GA16931@mail.el-swifto.com> <3F86CF80.8070901@andersonfam.org> Message-ID: <20031010153225.GA17289@mail.el-swifto.com> On Fri, Oct 10, 2003 at 10:25:52AM -0500, Erik Anderson wrote: > Once screen is loaded, do a Ctrl-a, Shift-S. This creates a split. You > can do it again to create more splits. Do a Ctrl-a Tab to switch > between windows. When you switch to a new split for the first time, > you'll need to do a Ctrl-a, Ctrl-c to create a new shell there. > Sweet. I \heart screen even more... -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From list at slushpupie.com Fri Oct 10 10:52:08 2003 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wireless network question In-Reply-To: References: <3F86CB69.5000308@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031010105208.2012bd16.list@slushpupie.com> On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:24:45 -0500 Johnny Fulcrum wrote: >On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:08:25 -0500, Sam MacDonald wrote: > >> Is it OK for the data he (would be) transferring over wireless, to be >> transfered over wireless? > >Oooo... good point - I'll make sure to bring that up. If you bring that point up, you need to make sure he also knows that all internet connections are insecure. Unless you know and trust every router between you and your destination, it is possible (however unlikely) for someone to be sniffing data. This is why companies use vpn's with encryption (e.g. ipsec). If he has such a vpn client to connect to his work (I would assume he does) then it dosnt really matter. Jay _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Fri Oct 10 11:08:40 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... In-Reply-To: <3F86CF80.8070901@andersonfam.org> References: <3F86C964.8040901@visi.com> <3F86C9C9.3080804@andersonfam.org> <20031010152021.GA16931@mail.el-swifto.com> <3F86CF80.8070901@andersonfam.org> Message-ID: <3F86D988.80306@visi.com> EVIL COOL PROGRAM! ;-) I'm hooked for ever! Sam. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bmaas at open-techsys.com Fri Oct 10 11:39:03 2003 From: bmaas at open-techsys.com (Ben Maas) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... In-Reply-To: <20031010153225.GA17289@mail.el-swifto.com> References: <3F86CF80.8070901@andersonfam.org> <20031010153225.GA17289@mail.el-swifto.com> Message-ID: <200310101139.03744.bmaas@open-techsys.com> Yeah, screen is definitely one of my favs, right up there with ssh, gcc, grep, sed, awk, and vi. I luuuve being able to start something from work, detach the screen session, and then reattach from home to check on it. But somebody wanted non-administrative tools, so I started thinking then it hit me: Penguin Commander Thats my favorite game (this week). Its a cool remake of the old "Missile Commander" game from the old Atari 2600 and arcade days. I stumbled accross it while looking for some work related stuff Tuesday and have been hooked ever since. Other favortie games of mine include the original "dungeon" text based game and "xbomber", a remake of "BomberMan", an MS-DOS game. BomberMan is great at LAN parties. Up to 6 (or is it 8?) people run their guys around and set bombs on a 2D game board to try and trap each other. If you get trapped you end up in a little pile of ashes complete with a "Aaieeee" scream :-) Sometimes the (deceptivly) simplest games generate the most laughter and competition when you're having fun. I've been at more than one Quake party that turned into a BomberMan-fest. My favorite business app right now is OpenOffice (StarOffice). It feels sooo good to not have MS Office on any of my machines! And lastly, KStars, a cool little star chart program that is part of the KDE project. On Friday 10 October 2003 10:32 am, John J. Trammell wrote: > On Fri, Oct 10, 2003 at 10:25:52AM -0500, Erik Anderson wrote: > > Once screen is loaded, do a Ctrl-a, Shift-S. This creates a split. You > > can do it again to create more splits. Do a Ctrl-a Tab to switch > > between windows. When you switch to a new split for the first time, > > you'll need to do a Ctrl-a, Ctrl-c to create a new shell there. > > Sweet. I \heart screen even more... -- Ben Maas - Technology Architect Open Technology Systems, LLC ----------------------------------------------------------- eMail: bmaas@open-techsys.com Web: http://www.open-techsys.com Phone: 952.448.3121 Fax: 952.448.4944 Cell: 612.743.3674 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Fri Oct 10 11:46:00 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... In-Reply-To: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD526FAC7@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> References: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD526FAC7@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> Message-ID: <20031010114600.00000f49.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 09:19:34 -0500 "Lansing, Dan" wrote: > Ok I guess I'll throw my 2 cents in.... Me too, except I have about 5 cents... mgdiff: Probably the only one in my list no one here has heard of. I loved SGI's gdiff program to visually show diffs between two files. I think Sam said he was a visual learner, I must be too because I hate command line diff. This version isn't as cool as SGI's. On SGI's if you were diffing two files and editing one of them you could press Control-R to have gdiff reload. nEdit: my favorite text editor. xvnc: Probably already been mentioned, but a very easy way to share KDE/Gnome/Whatever desktop over the net. samba: hard to setup IMO, but worth it. crossover office/plugin: For running dreaded MS apps on Linux. webCdWriter: Didn't actually use it, but looked like a good app for sharing a CD-RW drive. I hate XCDRoast. ogle: DVD playback videolan: tons of cool video streaming/playback features. (videolan.org) XMLTV: Perl mod to get TV listings. lirc: Get your remote control to control your Linux programs! gqlplus: A drop-in wrapper to Oracle's $hitty sqlplus that supports (GASP) command histroy and editting. Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Fri Oct 10 12:07:35 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wireless network question In-Reply-To: <20031010105208.2012bd16.list@slushpupie.com> References: <3F86CB69.5000308@visi.com> <20031010105208.2012bd16.list@slushpupie.com> Message-ID: <3F86E757.6070108@visi.com> The point isn't centered around internet security. The point is about "does the company, the neighbor works for, allow this". I haven't had the experience of getting a call from a corporate lawyer but it doesn't sound like to much fun. If the company only allows a connection using a modem, so be it. If the Company gets POed at this arrangement and calls the Cable company, Johnny could be disconnected without notice and charged a huge fee for a reconnect. A neighbor could get POed and call, with the same results. I have limited experience with cable companies (I've never had cable TV and I don't want it) but I know in the past they use a wire cutter to stop people from re-routing the signal. (Over 300 channels of BS and growing! Go get a book) Lets say the neighbor is working from home on a serious problem. Johnny (forgetting the out-of-site connection) unplugs the cable modem to move it. The lights go out in an operating room, who gets sued. Not the hospital, not the cable company, ... This sounds extreme but it really is a possibility. Sam. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com Fri Oct 10 12:05:02 2003 From: Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com (Lansing, Dan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... Message-ID: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD526FAC8@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> One more I forgot....and the most important....and kind of a plug...not sure if it would be considered a UNIX app but there is a remake of the BBS classic Legend of the Red Dragon....it is called legend of the green dragon....open source runs with php and mysql I think....find it on sourceforge play it at lotgd.net...by far one of my favorite games....brings me back to the good ol' days Dan Lansing _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Fri Oct 10 12:16:49 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... In-Reply-To: <200310101139.03744.bmaas@open-techsys.com> References: <3F86CF80.8070901@andersonfam.org> <20031010153225.GA17289@mail.el-swifto.com> <200310101139.03744.bmaas@open-techsys.com> Message-ID: <3F86E981.5070905@visi.com> Games Moria, for a text game it's the greatest. Back when my TRS 80 was hot I played a game called Pyramid, it didn't have the text based graphics that Moria has but it was fun. Sam. > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Fri Oct 10 12:12:23 2003 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... In-Reply-To: <20031010114600.00000f49.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> References: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD526FAC7@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> <20031010114600.00000f49.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: <20031010171223.GD862@iucha.net> On Fri, Oct 10, 2003 at 11:46:00AM -0500, Josh Trutwin wrote: > mgdiff: Probably the only one in my list no one here has heard of. I loved SGI's gdiff program to visually show diffs between two files. I think Sam said he was a visual learner, I must be too because I hate command line diff. This version isn't as cool as SGI's. On SGI's if you were diffing two files and editing one of them you could press Control-R to have gdiff reload. Try g?vimdiff. It has built in diff reconcile for merging changes. florin -- Don't question authority: they don't know either! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031010/f763ff2f/attachment.pgp From webmaster at mn-linux.org Fri Oct 10 11:54:05 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (webmaster@mn-linux.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] A new classified ad at TCLUG Classifieds Message-ID: <200310101654.h9AGs5o05258@crusader.real-time.com> A new TCLUG classified ad at was placed Fri Oct 10 11:54:05 2003. Name: Abby Siemers Category: services Subject: DEVELOPER WANTED Ad: DEVELOPER: 3-5 yrs job-related experience in C/C++ development in a LINUX (Digital and SCO Unix a plus) environment. Qualified candidates must have the demonstrated abilities to stay ahead of trends in technology/development, be flexible and adaptive to change. If you are a UNIX hotshot with these qualifications and desire to develop in a challenging and rewarding environment, please apply. SOFTWARE SUPPORT ENGINEER: 5+ yrs experience providing software support/maintenance in both Microsoft and Linux/Unix Environments. Looking for strong abilities troubleshooting and resolving software problems using SQL, C, C++, and PERL. Familiarity with TCP/IP, Visual Basic and GIS programming a plus. TO APPLY: Please email your resume to abby.siemers@meteorlogix.com To view this and other ads at TCLUG Classifieds, please visit: http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/classifieds.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Fri Oct 10 11:55:59 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (webmaster@mn-linux.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] A new classified ad at TCLUG Classifieds Message-ID: <200310101655.h9AGtxe05298@crusader.real-time.com> A new TCLUG classified ad at was placed Fri Oct 10 11:55:59 2003. Name: Abby Siemers Category: services Subject: DEVELOPER WANTED Ad: Meteorlogix, with more than 22,000 organizations depending on them to provide weather risk management, is the world’s largest business weather solutions provider. Our success has generated opportunities for employees who are empowered to deliver non-stop improvements. If you have the appropriate experience, technical expertise and wish to join a team of empowered individuals, you should consider Meteorlogix. Technology Careers currently offered:

DEVELOPER:

3-5 yrs job-related experience in C/C++ development in a LINUX (Digital and SCO Unix a plus) environment. Qualified candidates must have the demonstrated abilities to stay ahead of trends in technology/development, be flexible and adaptive to change. If you are a UNIX hotshot with these qualifications and desire to develop in a challenging and rewarding environment, please apply.

SOFTWARE SUPPORT ENGINEER: 5+ yrs experience providing software support/maintenance in both Microsoft and Linux/Unix Environments. Looking for strong abilities troubleshooting and resolving software problems using SQL, C, C++, and PERL. Familiarity with TCP/IP, Visual Basic and GIS programming a plus. TO APPLY: Please email your resume to abby.siemers@meteorlogix.com To view this and other ads at TCLUG Classifieds, please visit: http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/classifieds.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Fri Oct 10 12:29:57 2003 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... In-Reply-To: <20031010041959.7dc8ef89.crc1021@myrealbox.com> References: <3F7AF009.2050409@ppdonline.com> <20031010041959.7dc8ef89.crc1021@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: <20031010122957.A11367@baker.space.umn.edu> On Fri, Oct 10, 2003 at 04:19:59AM -0500, Eric Lofstad wrote: > Not much response so far, and all from admin types. Does > anyone use programs that don't just administer computers? gpsdrive - a fun toy if you have a GPS receiver xpdf - a less bloated pdf reader LaTeX - make nicer lookign documents (more for programming/math people) xmms - play mp3s wmWeather - keep track of the weather tuxracer - fun little game - nice check to see if 3D acceleration is working -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From list at slushpupie.com Fri Oct 10 13:21:32 2003 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wireless network question In-Reply-To: <3F86E757.6070108@visi.com> References: <3F86CB69.5000308@visi.com> <20031010105208.2012bd16.list@slushpupie.com> <3F86E757.6070108@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031010132132.3e383a96.list@slushpupie.com> On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:07:35 -0500 Sam MacDonald wrote: >The point isn't centered around internet security. The point is about >"does the company, the neighbor works for, allow this". I haven't had >the experience of getting a call from a corporate lawyer but it doesn't >sound like to much fun. If the company only allows a connection using a >modem, so be it. If the company is worried about HOW you get your Internet connection, they will provide it, or they will not allow any Internet connections at all. >If the Company gets POed at this arrangement and calls the Cable >company, Johnny could be disconnected without notice and charged a huge >fee for a reconnect. A neighbor could get POed and call, with the same >results. The real problems that exist are if the cable company allows you to share your service with others via WiFi. From my experiences talking with customer service (admittedly not the best source of official info) cable company's dont mind if you share your connection via a router or whatnot, and dont mind you using wireless connections. What they DO mind is you trying to make money off doing that. So, you can give access away to your friend for free, or you can split the bill in some way, but you cannot mark up the costs in any way. The only thing they care about is the person who's name is on the bill is responsible for paying in full and on time, and is also responsible for security related issues (sorta). >Lets say the neighbor is working from home on a serious problem. Johnny >(forgetting the out-of-site connection) unplugs the cable modem to move >it. The lights go out in an operating room, who gets sued. Not the >hospital, not the cable company, ... Yes, and when your cable modem goes out because they were stupid and forgot to update a router properly (or any other number of excuses I hear all the time) you end up with the same result. You still cant sue the cable company for that, they dont guarantee availability to that degree. At least I have never seen an ISP give any such guarantee for a service costing less than $500/mo. The best they can do for you is refund you for a day's worth of service. Jay _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Fri Oct 10 13:33:06 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... In-Reply-To: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD526FAC8@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> References: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD526FAC8@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> Message-ID: <1065810784.8190.38.camel@unixws1> Mmm...LORD. I actually coaxed LORD (and TradeWars) into working under DOSEMU. I originally ran RA Pro under DESQview, but after about 3 years I decided to shut my board down. But a couple of years ago I was bored and setup Cit/UX under Linux, and had it setup to copy the correct autoexec.bat for LORD or TW into C:\, copy the dropfile in and start DOSEMU. Happy LORD action for all! Anyone here ever call Hell Frozen Over BBS? The original hard drives have since died, but I think I still have a copy of all the user and system data from the day I pulled the plug. Someone should get a LORD and/or TW game going for TCLUG - I bet there's a number of us that would play (Ben - corp?) On Fri, 2003-10-10 at 12:05, Lansing, Dan wrote: > One more I forgot....and the most important....and kind of a plug...not sure if it would be considered a UNIX app but there is a remake of the BBS classic Legend of the Red Dragon....it is called legend of the green dragon....open source runs with php and mysql I think....find it on sourceforge play it at lotgd.net...by far one of my favorite games....brings me back to the good ol' days > > Dan Lansing > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com Fri Oct 10 13:37:58 2003 From: Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com (Lansing, Dan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... Message-ID: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D3733@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> If anyone started a lotgd game going I would play daily....its not lord but it is open source....and very similar....don't need dosemu...runs native on Linux.....chock full of text based goodness Dan Lansing -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Adam Maloney Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 1:33 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: RE: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... Mmm...LORD. I actually coaxed LORD (and TradeWars) into working under DOSEMU. I originally ran RA Pro under DESQview, but after about 3 years I decided to shut my board down. But a couple of years ago I was bored and setup Cit/UX under Linux, and had it setup to copy the correct autoexec.bat for LORD or TW into C:\, copy the dropfile in and start DOSEMU. Happy LORD action for all! Anyone here ever call Hell Frozen Over BBS? The original hard drives have since died, but I think I still have a copy of all the user and system data from the day I pulled the plug. Someone should get a LORD and/or TW game going for TCLUG - I bet there's a number of us that would play (Ben - corp?) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Fri Oct 10 15:42:34 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (webmaster@mn-linux.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] A new classified ad at TCLUG Classifieds Message-ID: <200310102042.h9AKgYT09131@crusader.real-time.com> A new TCLUG classified ad at was placed Fri Oct 10 15:42:32 2003. Name: Abby Siemers Category: services Subject: Resumes Ad: Some have you have already seen the ad under services. If you send a resume PLEASE, include your email address, phone number, etc so I have options on how contact you! I have tried to email individuals, and the addresses are either deactivated or misspelled! To view this and other ads at TCLUG Classifieds, please visit: http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/classifieds.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From JAustad at temgweb.com Fri Oct 10 16:36:18 2003 From: JAustad at temgweb.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] perl or shell script issue Message-ID: <288FAF5565A1A74EA5E35C39E7EE1D420A1BDC5F@mail.temgweb.com> So, say I have a shell script, that looks like this echo -n "User:" read echo -n "Pass:" read /usr/sbin/someproprietaryprogram break And this script runs from inetd listening on some arbitrary port, say 40000. The username and password do not matter, I just ask for them and wait for a response because the remote program that connects to port 40000 needs it. I know this isn't the most secure way to do this, but it's locked down with iptables rules and it's internal only. So anyway, this remote program sends the username after it sees the user prompt, and then sends a linefeed. "read" expects a CRLF. So, I either need to figure out how to make read just expect an LF, or convert this to perl and make that handle it properly. I'm assuming if I did it in perl I'd just have a loop that read every character, and broke out of the loop when it saw an LF. Right? -jay _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Fri Oct 10 16:48:37 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... [ LOTGD ] In-Reply-To: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D3733@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> References: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D3733@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> Message-ID: <3F872935.7040202@visi.com> Thinking to myself... "What does it take to run a games like lotgd?" I googled "lotgd" and found it on source forge, after a little reading. I found the game on this website http://lotgd.net it's the site where the developer has his game running. The game uses Apache, PHP, and MySQL, it will run on Linux or Windows. With that little bit of information I have everything it takes to run the game ( I down loaded the files ), with little help, well maybe a lot of help I can host the game. Off topic; OMG! my son (9) is starting Clarinet lessons, the dogs in the hood will be going insane! It's to late for me so I pity the dogs... I have some concerns... My concerns are bandwidth and disk use. *Down Side...* I have a windows box http://www.screechowl.org/html/cpu.htm with about 10 gig of free diskspace running Apache, PhP, and MySQL I know that is as evil as it gets but I haven't had the time to convert my windows box to Linux. I have several gig of data and applications I can't live without. If I had a computer in the house my wife could use for work stuff I would convert it in a minute, but I don't. *Up Side* I have a Linux box with about 2 gig of free diskspace running Apache, PhP and MySQL BUT! I have another project I just started, it's in the first stage of becoming a real deal but I think it will fly. My website http://www.screechowl.org has more information on the project and a link to the Linux box (above) with the default Debian GNU Linux webpage. The linux box is where the project site will live. I'm sure some of the people involved with the project would play. *scary Side!* Take a look at my website... http://www.screechowl.org Now if you look in the index of "The Silmarillion" by: J.R.R. Tolkien you will find something interesting about the name I chose for the server. If you you don't have "The Silmarillion" (who wouldn't have it) Google the name listed in the text you may find something interesting. Like this website http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Ancalagon It gets better, my little 486 laptop is named angband, and my windows server is named angrenost. Can you say "Karma"? Sam. Lansing, Dan wrote: >If anyone started a lotgd game going I would play daily....its not lord but it is open source....and very similar....don't need dosemu...runs native on Linux.....chock full of text based goodness > >Dan Lansing > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ston0235 at umn.edu Fri Oct 10 18:59:45 2003 From: ston0235 at umn.edu (Ian Stoner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... In-Reply-To: <20031010041959.7dc8ef89.crc1021@myrealbox.com> References: <3F7AF009.2050409@ppdonline.com> <20031010041959.7dc8ef89.crc1021@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: <20031010185945.2002b144.ston0235@umn.edu> One little program that I use often is easytag, an ogg/mp3/flac/etc tagger. It has many ways to make tagging music files easy. (freedb queries and file-name scanning are the things I use the most.) It can also re-name files based on tag data. I also like grip for ripping and compressing CDs. I have yet to find a gui CD burner that I like. Does anyone have any suggestions? > On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 08:17:29 -0700 > Ben Bargabus wrote: > > > I was bored and thinking that it would be interesting to hear what > > some of your favorite Linux/Unix programs are. Maybe an interesting > > response will inspire me to learn something new. Anyway, what are > > your favorite programs, why, and what do you use them for? (if any > > of you are as bored as me today maybe this will start an interesting > > thread ;-) Later, > > Ben. -- Ian Stoner Philosophy Department University of Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jkey at tomobiki.dyndns.org Fri Oct 10 20:06:47 2003 From: jkey at tomobiki.dyndns.org (Joseph) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... In-Reply-To: <20031010114600.00000f49.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: <000e01c38f93$f2773910$0436a8c0@Kurama> >mgdiff: Probably the only one in my list no one here has heard of. I >loved SGI's gdiff program to visually show diffs between two files. I >think Sam said he was a visual learner, I must be too because I hate >command line diff. This version isn't as cool as SGI's. On SGI's if you >were diffing two files and editing one of them you could press Control-R to >have gdiff reload. Have you tried vimdiff? Joseph Key _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Fri Oct 10 21:53:17 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] vimdiff [WAS: Favorite Linux/Unix Programs...] In-Reply-To: <000e01c38f93$f2773910$0436a8c0@Kurama> References: <20031010114600.00000f49.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> <000e01c38f93$f2773910$0436a8c0@Kurama> Message-ID: <20031010215317.000043bd.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> > Have you tried vimdiff? Just did, that's pretty sweet. Does it allow you to edit files while diffing? (I'll read the manpage...) Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Fri Oct 10 22:20:54 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SUSE8.2? Message-ID: <3F877716.3010709@comcast.net> Does anyone live near enough to me that I could persuade you to come over for a beer or two whilest I burn a copy of your SUSE v8.2? I would love to buy a copy, but since I'm currently job seeking, my wife would kill me if I went out and spent the money for a "store bought" copy. I've been playing with Mandrake v9.1, but I've heard so much about SUSE. I really don't want to dink around with an FTP install. Thanks. I'm on "digest" mode, so please respond directly to me. -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Fri Oct 10 22:21:40 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... In-Reply-To: <20031010185945.2002b144.ston0235@umn.edu> References: <3F7AF009.2050409@ppdonline.com> <20031010041959.7dc8ef89.crc1021@myrealbox.com> <20031010185945.2002b144.ston0235@umn.edu> Message-ID: <20031010222140.17360acc.sfertch@real-time.com> On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 18:59:45 -0500 Ian Stoner wrote: > One little program that I use often is easytag, an ogg/mp3/flac/etc > tagger. It has many ways to make tagging music files easy. (freedb > queries and file-name scanning are the things I use the most.) It can > also re-name files based on tag data. > > I also like grip for ripping and compressing CDs. > Interesting, will have to check these out.... > I have yet to find a gui CD burner that I like. Does anyone have any > suggestions? > In Linux, I've only used X-CDRoast. Unfortunately, it doesn't support mp3 formats. =( I'm going to have to find either another GUI burning app, or find a decent recipe for cdrecord to convert mp3's into audio cd's. -- Shawn The difficult we do today; the impossible take a little longer. Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Fri Oct 10 22:35:22 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] perl or shell script issue In-Reply-To: <288FAF5565A1A74EA5E35C39E7EE1D420A1BDC5F@mail.temgweb.com> References: <288FAF5565A1A74EA5E35C39E7EE1D420A1BDC5F@mail.temgweb.com> Message-ID: <20031010223522.1ba71be5.sfertch@real-time.com> On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:36:18 -0500 "Austad, Jay" wrote: > So, say I have a shell script, that looks like this > > echo -n "User:" > read > echo -n "Pass:" > read > /usr/sbin/someproprietaryprogram > break > Warning: I'm by no means a good shell scripter, but why do you need the break? At the termination of the /usr/sbin/someproprietaryprogram it would terminate anyways. > > So anyway, this remote program sends the username after it sees the > user prompt, and then sends a linefeed. "read" expects a CRLF. So, I > either need to figure out how to make read just expect an LF, or > convert this to perl and make that handle it properly. > > I'm assuming if I did it in perl I'd just have a loop that read every > character, and broke out of the loop when it saw an LF. Right? > Umm, just a thought, but couldn't you have them enter it in like this: username:password -or- username password Not sure why you need to only do an LF and not a CRLF. Personally, I would set it up something like this: echo -n "User:" > read user > echo -n "Pass:" > read pass > /usr/sbin/someproprietaryprogram > break Not sure how you want to tie in those to the proprietary program, but if you needed to combine them into one line couldn't you do something like: "${user}:$pass" Apologies if this is well below what you're trying to do. I'm still fairly new to shell script writing. -- Shawn The difficult we do today; the impossible take a little longer. Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ston0235 at umn.edu Sat Oct 11 00:16:41 2003 From: ston0235 at umn.edu (Ian Stoner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... In-Reply-To: <20031010222140.17360acc.sfertch@real-time.com> References: <3F7AF009.2050409@ppdonline.com> <20031010041959.7dc8ef89.crc1021@myrealbox.com> <20031010185945.2002b144.ston0235@umn.edu> <20031010222140.17360acc.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20031011001641.7e97fb64.ston0235@umn.edu> On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:21:40 -0500 Shawn wrote: > > I have yet to find a gui CD burner that I like. Does anyone have > > any suggestions? > > > > In Linux, I've only used X-CDRoast. Unfortunately, it doesn't support > mp3 formats. =( I'm going to have to find either another GUI > burning app, or find a decent recipe for cdrecord to convert mp3's > into audio cd's. I've used a script called mp3burn with some success. If you want to burn audio CDs from directories of mp3s or from playlists, it can be a handy command-line solution. -- Ian Stoner Philosophy Department University of Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Sat Oct 11 07:53:25 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] perl or shell script issue In-Reply-To: <288FAF5565A1A74EA5E35C39E7EE1D420A1BDC5F@mail.temgweb.com> References: <288FAF5565A1A74EA5E35C39E7EE1D420A1BDC5F@mail.temgweb.com> Message-ID: <3F87FD45.8010509@eworld3.net> I've never used it but you should take a look at 'expect', as in "man expect". I also did "man bash" went down to "SHELL BUILTIN COMMANDS" to read about read ;-) and found "read -n nchars". Maybe that will work? Austad, Jay wrote: > So, say I have a shell script, that looks like this > > echo -n "User:" > read > echo -n "Pass:" > read > /usr/sbin/someproprietaryprogram > break > > > And this script runs from inetd listening on some arbitrary port, say 40000. > The username and password do not matter, I just ask for them and wait for a > response because the remote program that connects to port 40000 needs it. I > know this isn't the most secure way to do this, but it's locked down with > iptables rules and it's internal only. > > So anyway, this remote program sends the username after it sees the user > prompt, and then sends a linefeed. "read" expects a CRLF. So, I either > need to figure out how to make read just expect an LF, or convert this to > perl and make that handle it properly. > > I'm assuming if I did it in perl I'd just have a loop that read every > character, and broke out of the loop when it saw an LF. Right? > > -jay > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff rick@eworld3.net 952-929-1659 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nate at refried.org Sat Oct 11 08:37:16 2003 From: nate at refried.org (nate@refried.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] vimdiff [WAS: Favorite Linux/Unix Programs...] In-Reply-To: <20031010215317.000043bd.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> References: <20031010114600.00000f49.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> <000e01c38f93$f2773910$0436a8c0@Kurama> <20031010215317.000043bd.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: <20031011133716.GA4059@refried.org> On Fri, Oct 10, 2003 at 09:53:17PM -0500, Josh Trutwin wrote: > > Have you tried vimdiff? > > Just did, that's pretty sweet. Does it allow you to edit files while > diffing? (I'll read the manpage...) Yes, it allows you to pull changes from one file to the other. Try the :diffget and :diffput commands. This is really nice when merging new and old configuration files. Nate _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From william.layer at comcast.net Sat Oct 11 09:56:28 2003 From: william.layer at comcast.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:05 2005 Subject: AudioCD from MP3 (was Re: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs...) In-Reply-To: <20031011001641.7e97fb64.ston0235@umn.edu> References: <3F7AF009.2050409@ppdonline.com> <20031010041959.7dc8ef89.crc1021@myrealbox.com> <20031010185945.2002b144.ston0235@umn.edu> <20031010222140.17360acc.sfertch@real-time.com> <20031011001641.7e97fb64.ston0235@umn.edu> Message-ID: <20031011095628.54eb1c2b.william.layer@comcast.net> On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 00:16:41 -0500 Ian Stoner wrote: > > In Linux, I've only used X-CDRoast. Unfortunately, it doesn't support > > mp3 formats. =( I'm going to have to find either another GUI > > burning app, or find a decent recipe for cdrecord to convert mp3's > > into audio cd's. > > I've used a script called mp3burn with some success. If you want to > burn audio CDs from directories of mp3s or from playlists, it can be a > handy command-line solution. There is a little GUI software called LARS (*snerk*) that does this very well for me. http://lars.naken.cc/ -L _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gkrueger at cleosci.com Sat Oct 11 13:46:26 2003 From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (gkrueger) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Port 25 / Sendmail question Message-ID: <3F885002.3060902@cleosci.com> Hi All: I'd love some advice as I'm running out of ideas. I've been attempting to set up a second mail server as a backup and, for the life of me, I cannot understand why it won't relay messages through port 25 (smtp). I've checked iptables -- I even flushed all iptable rules just to test -- then I added explicit "ACCEPT" rules to tcp and udp port 25 in iptables. For some reason, this machine (running redhat 8 with sendmail) will send/relay, and receive both internal and external email if I use pine or mail. However, if I use a browser client like mozilla or outlook, relaying is automatically denied -- yet the maillog posts no message as to why it's denied. I'm pretty sure I set outgoing server correctly in the browser: "mail.domain.com" and I added "domain.com" to my access.db along with the network IP address (then ran makemap and restarted sendmail). Furthermore, I activated telnet and tried to "telnet mail.domain.com 25" and the connection was refused (yet standard telnet to port 23 was accepted). I"m thinking it might be something in sendmail.cf, but I'm not sure. Can anyone think of some obvious things which might be blocking relay? I'm fresh out. Thanks! Garrett _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Sat Oct 11 17:17:07 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... In-Reply-To: <3F86CF80.8070901@andersonfam.org> References: <3F86C964.8040901@visi.com> <3F86C9C9.3080804@andersonfam.org> <20031010152021.GA16931@mail.el-swifto.com> <3F86CF80.8070901@andersonfam.org> Message-ID: <1065910626.3661.7.camel@bigtime> Hey, is there a way to get screen to automatically start on login? This would be easy to do if it had a command line option to "Reattach if possible, otherwise just start a new session" but it doesn't seem to. Also, you need to make sure when screen starts up a shell it doesn't endlessly fork bomb itself, re-executing .profile/.bashrc every time... I haven't got around to scripting something up myself... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031011/64bceb2c/attachment.pgp From drake at math.umn.edu Sat Oct 11 17:25:27 2003 From: drake at math.umn.edu (Dan Drake) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... In-Reply-To: <1065910626.3661.7.camel@bigtime> References: <3F86C964.8040901@visi.com> <3F86C9C9.3080804@andersonfam.org> <20031010152021.GA16931@mail.el-swifto.com> <3F86CF80.8070901@andersonfam.org> <1065910626.3661.7.camel@bigtime> Message-ID: <20031011222527.GA21075@math.umn.edu> On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 at 17:17 -0500, Callum Lerwick wrote: > This > would be easy to do if it had a command line option to "Reattach if > possible, otherwise just start a new session" but it doesn't seem to. Did you try "screen --help"? Looks like -R is precisely what you want: drake@vinh505$ screen --help [...] -R Reattach if possible, otherwise start a new session. [...] > Also, you need to make sure when screen starts up a shell it doesn't > endlessly fork bomb itself, re-executing .profile/.bashrc every time... When I start shells in screen, they're not login shells. So as long as screen is started only from a login shell, you shouldn't have a problem. Adding a line to your .bash_login should do the trick. I've thought about automatically starting screen sessions, too. I'll try my own advice and see if I melt down one of the math department machines... Dan -- --- Dan Drake University of Minnesota ----- http://www.math.umn.edu/~drake School of Mathematics ------- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031011/5895f573/attachment.pgp From seg at haxxed.com Sat Oct 11 17:55:47 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... In-Reply-To: <20031011222527.GA21075@math.umn.edu> References: <3F86C964.8040901@visi.com> <3F86C9C9.3080804@andersonfam.org> <20031010152021.GA16931@mail.el-swifto.com> <3F86CF80.8070901@andersonfam.org> <1065910626.3661.7.camel@bigtime> <20031011222527.GA21075@math.umn.edu> Message-ID: <1065912946.3661.12.camel@bigtime> On Sat, 2003-10-11 at 17:25, Dan Drake wrote: > Did you try "screen --help"? Looks like -R is precisely what you want: IIRC, the problem with this is -R refuses to reattach if something's already attached. It refuses to do 'multidisplay'. I always leave my desktop machine attached, so there's always at least one machine attached at all times. I want to be able to get in remotely, so this makes -R rather useless to me. ;P -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031011/143871fa/attachment.pgp From bruce.broecker at toro.com Sat Oct 11 18:51:29 2003 From: bruce.broecker at toro.com (Bruce Broecker) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SUSE8.2? Message-ID: Todd, I live in East St. Paul, and work in Bloomington. IGH shouldn't be a problem. Let me know and we can work something out. BTW, I won't see your response 'til Monday. I just happened to check my work account this evening. Bruce Broecker Network Comm Supervisor The Toro Company >>> auditodd@comcast.net 10/10/03 10:20PM >>> Does anyone live near enough to me that I could persuade you to come over for a beer or two whilest I burn a copy of your SUSE v8.2? I would love to buy a copy, but since I'm currently job seeking, my wife would kill me if I went out and spent the money for a "store bought" copy. I've been playing with Mandrake v9.1, but I've heard so much about SUSE. I really don't want to dink around with an FTP install. Thanks. I'm on "digest" mode, so please respond directly to me. -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From drake at math.umn.edu Sat Oct 11 18:59:27 2003 From: drake at math.umn.edu (Dan Drake) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:06 2005 Subject: screen (re|de)attachment (was Re: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs...) In-Reply-To: <1065912946.3661.12.camel@bigtime> References: <3F86C964.8040901@visi.com> <3F86C9C9.3080804@andersonfam.org> <20031010152021.GA16931@mail.el-swifto.com> <3F86CF80.8070901@andersonfam.org> <1065910626.3661.7.camel@bigtime> <20031011222527.GA21075@math.umn.edu> <1065912946.3661.12.camel@bigtime> Message-ID: <20031011235927.GA21335@math.umn.edu> On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 at 17:55 -0500, Callum Lerwick wrote: > IIRC, the problem with this is -R refuses to reattach if something's > already attached. It refuses to do 'multidisplay'. I always leave my > desktop machine attached, so there's always at least one machine > attached at all times. I want to be able to get in remotely, so this > makes -R rather useless to me. ;P Looks like the screen people are still one step ahead of you. :) -D (-r) Detach and logout remote (and reattach here). -D -RR Do whatever is needed to get a screen session. I tried -D -R, and it works like I think you want: if there's another session, it detaches it, then reattaches where you are. If there isn't another session, it starts one. I haven't tried -D -RR. I'm a bit afraid of that "whatever is needed" line... BTW, putting "screen -R" in my .bash_login works fine. No fork bombs or melted machines. Dan -- --- Dan Drake University of Minnesota ----- http://www.math.umn.edu/~drake School of Mathematics ------- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031011/c3b70c3d/attachment.pgp From adamm at sihope.com Sat Oct 11 19:37:45 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Port 25 / Sendmail question In-Reply-To: <3F885002.3060902@cleosci.com> References: <3F885002.3060902@cleosci.com> Message-ID: <20031011193147.V95313@unix18.sihope.com> If "telnet mail.yourdomain.com 25" gives a connection refused, then it's either a firewall issue, or Sendmail is not listening on port 25 for mail.domain.com (I've seen some unixes start a local-only Sendmail on port 25, so it only accepts connections from/to "localhost:25" Check how sendmail is started in your start-up scripts, or see what the actual command-line was in /proc (or does Sendmail change this.../) If telnet mail.domain.com 25 gives you the SMTP banner, and you get "relaying denied" from Sendmail while trying to actually send a message, then you need to tell Sendmail to relay mail for the domain you're trying to be backup for. This may be /etc/mail/relay-domains, you can see what your distro calls it by grepping for "FR-o" in your sendmail.cf (assuming it's configured to use a file), or "cR-o" if it doesn't use a file (i.e., they are specified in your sendmail.mc file). If it's a Sendmail issue and not a firewall/IPtables issue, contact me off list and I can provide some more help if needed (include your sendmail.cf). Adam Maloney Groks Sendmail Rulesets :) Sihope Communications On Sat, 11 Oct 2003, gkrueger wrote: > Hi All: > > I'd love some advice as I'm running out of ideas. I've been attempting > to set up a second mail server as a backup and, for the life of me, I > cannot understand why it won't relay messages through port 25 (smtp). > I've checked iptables -- I even flushed all iptable rules just to test > -- then I added explicit "ACCEPT" rules to tcp and udp port 25 in iptables. > > For some reason, this machine (running redhat 8 with sendmail) will > send/relay, and receive both internal and external email if I use pine > or mail. However, if I use a browser client like mozilla or outlook, > relaying is automatically denied -- yet the maillog posts no message as > to why it's denied. I'm pretty sure I set outgoing server correctly in > the browser: "mail.domain.com" and I added "domain.com" to my access.db > along with the network IP address (then ran makemap and restarted sendmail). > > Furthermore, I activated telnet and tried to "telnet mail.domain.com > 25" and the connection was refused (yet standard telnet to port 23 was > accepted). I"m thinking it might be something in sendmail.cf, but I'm > not sure. > > Can anyone think of some obvious things which might be blocking relay? > I'm fresh out. > > Thanks! > > Garrett > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mike at JentgeS.NeT Sat Oct 11 21:03:56 2003 From: mike at JentgeS.NeT (Michael Jentges) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Using Linux for Small Businesses & Non-profits Class In-Reply-To: <006001c38b3c$62a2a230$0201a8c0@brinstar> References: <2322.192.1.1.23.1065332542.squirrel@dccmn.com> <006001c38b3c$62a2a230$0201a8c0@brinstar> Message-ID: <1902.199.199.150.6.1065924236.squirrel@webmail.jentges.net> A few comments from out here in left field.. :) > With Debian, you could easily setup security updates to run nightly from > cron. Unfortunately, Debian does not have the easiest installer. > Three things here... 1. I personally don't want ANYTHING 'automatically updating'. Who knows what will be discreetly broken in the process, and how long it'll take to figure out that some magical update broke it, which one it actually was, and how to resolve the problem. 2. This is how the independant contractor makes money. :) Ideally, you're aware of the systems you 'admin', and are able to remotely do any necessary updates. It doesn't take a very fancy lil' bash script to weekly/monthly email you versions of commonly exploited software, I.E Sendmail, BIND, OpenSSH, etc. 3. Come all without, come all within. You'll not see nothing like the mighty Deb - ian..... Sitting here in my basement untill about 3:00AM I billed out $300 upgrading OpenSSH this last round. Not one of the customers understood what I really did, but understood it was a security thing, and the use of Windows workstations has familiarized them with the hazards of not keeping up in this area. The fact that I did it, and tested things afterward left no suprises. I could have done this in no more than my underwear, for all anyone knew or cared. > As much as everyone would like to believe that UNIX software is > magically immune to security holes, it simply isn't true. Almost all > popular programs have had security holes that allow arbitrary code Absolutely correct. See above. In my experience, the users are happy to see I'm watching their systems that closely, and need not concern themselves with it. > execution. Setting newbies up with Linux systems that aren't > automatically updated with security fixes is just as irresponsible > setting them up with Windows boxes. Hmm.... Automation is a wonderful thing, in the right place such as backups and other misc. tasks. UPDATING? *shudder* > > Another issue is the operating system becoming obsolete. Some companies > such as Red Hat make their operating systems obsolete faster than even > Microsoft. Obsolete in who's terms? I happen to have a 486 running Slackware 4.0, using ipchains, that has been an entirely functional firewall for years now. All it does is route and/or deny traffic. It allows SSH from inside only so even if I DID let that slide, I have only myself to fear. What's to become obsolete on it? No one or nothing gets in I don't WANT to get in. That's the idea, right? Yes, someday an iptables p133 or even OBSD might be nice, but the age of the software is not an issue at all unless I WANT to make the changes. The need doesn't exist at this point. Especially in the case of internal systems. Upgrades should be the choice and decision of the user, not the software manufacturer because "xxxxx is no longer supported with xxx on xxx" or EOL crap. If it's working for them, leave it be. As long as I can run the latest BIND on it, why would I 'update' that RH 5.2 nameserver that's been up 232 days performing it's function nicely? Beware the 'upgrade treadmill!' > Ideally, the operating systems needs a way to update itself from any You are a brave and trusting soul. :) >> E-mail Serving > Make sure to pick a secure MTA, such as qmail or Postfix. No comment... :) > Take a hint from Apple on usability. How many average Mac users know > about UNIX permissions? The average user doesn't care and shouldn't > need to. Focus on what the user needs to do, not on general UNIX > concepts. Agreed, read on. > Businesses exist to make money, Indeed. This is done in part by smooth, efficient day to day operation. >not do something a certain way because > you think it is cool (case in point: vi). Make sure a solution's total > cost of ownership is cheaper than the alternatives. Software cost is > usually a small factor. I disagree. First off, we're talking small business/non-profit here. License after license in order to remain legal can be a SIGNIFIGANT expense, not to mention deployment and interference with daily operations caused by the afforementioned. I WISH the linux servers I've setup/sold required more 'work'. I'd have a hell of a lot more money in my pocket. These folks don't even know what root IS, much less how to access anything on these big machines stashed in an office closet. All they know is that it WORKS, is ALWAYS there when they need it to be, and doesn't cost them a fortune in downtime, license fees, etc. That's all they WANT to know in most cases. A welding shop typically doesn't care one bit how/what's happening with the stuff, as long as it does what they think it should. In most cases I've found they are 'anti-computer' and only use them because that's how things work now, and it's somehow related to the way they get their paychecks. You've not LIVED until you've been a party to a delay in this area. :) "Ok whatever. Can I just print this drawing I got in my email?" As far as workstations go, there's usually some way to centalize things via an X server or some such, depending on the need of course. The beauty of open source plays nice here as it's limits are only that of the 'system designers' skills, imagination and problem solving abilities. Set it up, put it out there, look for issues or complications, LISTEN to the users wants/needs and adjust accordingly. If not, there's always Samba. :) -mj > > -- > David Phillips > http://david.acz.org/ > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Sun Oct 12 14:24:01 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hard Disk Message-ID: <3F89AA51.5050708@visi.com> Does anyone have a 10 - 20 gig (used) hard disk? I'll can pay $20 for it. I'm afraid the old SCSI disks in my machine are going to die. Sam _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mj at ToyotaVans.OrG Sun Oct 12 16:05:37 2003 From: mj at ToyotaVans.OrG (Michael H. Jentges) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hard Disk References: <3F89AA51.5050708@visi.com> Message-ID: <3F89C221.8030208@ToyotaVans.OrG> I likely have something in that range, but I think it cost me more like $30 from eBay, and I can sell it to a customer for that (eventually) so I can't see letting go for less. Whether that makes me stupid or not, I don't know but if you want to look at something like that just holler and I'll pillage the piles. Perhaps you have something to trade? IIRC, you had some stuff a while back? I could REALLY use some sparc5 bits and pieces. :) Drivesled(s) & RAM. Not a whole heap, these are just experimental/educational machines. BTW, does anyone know if they need a video card physically installed to run or does it blow by that because of the serial console thing? Thanks... -mj Sam MacDonald wrote: > Does anyone have a 10 - 20 gig (used) hard disk? > I'll can pay $20 for it. I'm afraid the old SCSI disks in my machine > are going to die. > > Sam > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Sun Oct 12 18:50:33 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ps does not show all processes? Message-ID: <3F89E8C9.5000908@eworld3.net> Try this: 1. Save this one line shell script into a file called foo.sh: # sleep 200 # 2. $ chmod 755 foo.sh 3. $ ./foo.sh 4. In another terminal: $ ps -e | grep '*foo.sh*' Why doesn't the process show up? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From spencer at autonomous.tv Sun Oct 12 19:50:38 2003 From: spencer at autonomous.tv (Spencer Butler) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ps does not show all processes? In-Reply-To: <3F89E8C9.5000908@eworld3.net> References: <3F89E8C9.5000908@eworld3.net> Message-ID: <20031013005038.GT10449@autonomous.tv> On Sun, Oct 12, 2003 at 06:50:33PM -0500, Rick Meyerhoff wrote: >Try this: > >1. Save this one line shell script into a file called foo.sh: > ># >sleep 200 ># > >2. $ chmod 755 foo.sh >3. $ ./foo.sh >4. In another terminal: >$ ps -e | grep '*foo.sh*' > >Why doesn't the process show up? because of the *'s. if you just: ps -e | grep foo.sh ps -e | grep 'foo.sh' it shows. > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Linux Administrator || Technology Specialist || Wifi Engineer http://autonomous.tv/~spencer/resume/ || spencer@autonomous.tv Key fingerprint = 173B 8760 E59F DBF8 6FD2 68F8 ABA2 AB08 49C7 4754 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031012/25d905cd/attachment.pgp From spencer at autonomous.tv Sun Oct 12 19:56:31 2003 From: spencer at autonomous.tv (Spencer Butler) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... In-Reply-To: <20031011001641.7e97fb64.ston0235@umn.edu> References: <3F7AF009.2050409@ppdonline.com> <20031010041959.7dc8ef89.crc1021@myrealbox.com> <20031010185945.2002b144.ston0235@umn.edu> <20031010222140.17360acc.sfertch@real-time.com> <20031011001641.7e97fb64.ston0235@umn.edu> Message-ID: <20031013005631.GU10449@autonomous.tv> On Sat, Oct 11, 2003 at 12:16:41AM -0500, Ian Stoner wrote: >On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:21:40 -0500 Shawn wrote: > >> > I have yet to find a gui CD burner that I like. Does anyone have >> > any suggestions? >> > >> >> In Linux, I've only used X-CDRoast. Unfortunately, it doesn't >> support mp3 formats. =( I'm going to have to find either another >> GUI burning app, or find a decent recipe for cdrecord to convert >> mp3's into audio cd's. > >I've used a script called mp3burn with some success. If you want to >burn audio CDs from directories of mp3s or from playlists, it can be a >handy command-line solution. hear here! mp3burn is a great perl scrpit for burning mp3's to CD format. As far as I know, it is still the only Linux utility for creating audio CD's without filling up your drive with wav files. viva the command line... -- Linux Administrator || Technology Specialist || Wifi Engineer http://autonomous.tv/~spencer/resume/ || spencer@autonomous.tv Key fingerprint = 173B 8760 E59F DBF8 6FD2 68F8 ABA2 AB08 49C7 4754 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031012/54a2ffe0/attachment.pgp From jkey at tomobiki.dyndns.org Sun Oct 12 20:25:24 2003 From: jkey at tomobiki.dyndns.org (Joseph) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hard Disk In-Reply-To: <3F89C221.8030208@ToyotaVans.OrG> Message-ID: <001d01c39128$e06635a0$0436a8c0@Kurama> >BTW, does anyone know if they need a video card physically installed to >run or does it blow by that because of the serial console thing? I've done some installs on and IPX and sparc 1 using the serial port. Mostly NetBSD but the Linux distros for sparcs should support serial installs. Joseph Key _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Sun Oct 12 20:29:29 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hard Disk In-Reply-To: <001d01c39128$e06635a0$0436a8c0@Kurama> References: <3F89C221.8030208@ToyotaVans.OrG> <001d01c39128$e06635a0$0436a8c0@Kurama> Message-ID: <20031013012929.GA24160@fandre.com> On Sun, 12 Oct 2003, Joseph wrote: > > >BTW, does anyone know if they need a video card physically installed to > > >run or does it blow by that because of the serial console thing? > > I've done some installs on and IPX and sparc 1 using the serial port. > Mostly NetBSD but the Linux distros for sparcs should support serial > installs. > I've done debian network installs on a Classic and Sparc5 via the serial console. Not a problem. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Ryan at IntegraOnline.Com Sun Oct 12 20:52:41 2003 From: Ryan at IntegraOnline.Com (Ryan Oertel) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Xinerama blanking screens Message-ID: <1066009961.3311.5.camel@sd3.mailbank.com> Skipped content of type multipart/mixed-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031012/b8c2fab8/attachment.pgp From Ryan at IntegraOnline.Com Sun Oct 12 20:58:18 2003 From: Ryan at IntegraOnline.Com (Ryan Oertel) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Xinerama blanking screens In-Reply-To: <1066009961.3311.5.camel@sd3.mailbank.com> References: <1066009961.3311.5.camel@sd3.mailbank.com> Message-ID: <1066010298.3311.7.camel@sd3.mailbank.com> I forgot one important piece of information: I can get the primary monitor back by pressing CTRL+ALT+F8, then CTRL+ALT+F7. On Sun, 2003-10-12 at 20:52, Ryan Oertel wrote: > I'm attempting to get dual heads working again, using RH9 with > xinerama. When I move my mouse from the primary screen off the right > edge, the primary screen goes blank. If I'm creative and careful, I can > drag windows from the primary screen onto the second screen, but I can > never get the first screen back. I can work on both screens as long as > the mouse pointer does not leave the primary screen. > > I've used this same hardware before and had it working, but now I must > have something wrong. Has anybody seen this before? > > I've hand-modified the original XF86Config to include the second > monitor, video card and screen sections. > > Any help is appreciated. -- Ryan Oertel -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031012/b028469a/attachment.pgp From david at acz.org Sun Oct 12 20:54:18 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Xinerama blanking screens References: <1066009961.3311.5.camel@sd3.mailbank.com> Message-ID: <00dc01c3912c$ea27eee0$0201a8c0@brinstar> Ryan Oertel writes: > I've hand-modified the original XF86Config to include the second > monitor, video card and screen sections. I don't know anything about Xinerama, or even much about XFree86, but it appears that you left out the relationships between the displays. This may be your problem, or at least something you'll want. http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Xinerama-HOWTO/ -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Sun Oct 12 21:29:15 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ps does not show all processes? References: <3F89E8C9.5000908@eworld3.net> Message-ID: <010901c39131$cbd031f0$0201a8c0@brinstar> Rick Meyerhoff writes: > $ ps -e | grep '*foo.sh*' > > Why doesn't the process show up? You need the -E switch to grep if you want to use extended regular expressions: ps -e | grep -E '*foo.sh*' -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Sun Oct 12 21:43:51 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ps does not show all processes? In-Reply-To: <3F89E8C9.5000908@eworld3.net> References: <3F89E8C9.5000908@eworld3.net> Message-ID: <3F8A1167.8050501@eworld3.net> I tried all those and I still don't see it. I know it does not make any sense. Did you guys actually try it? Rick Meyerhoff wrote: > Try this: > > 1. Save this one line shell script into a file called foo.sh: > > # > sleep 200 > # > > 2. $ chmod 755 foo.sh > 3. $ ./foo.sh > 4. In another terminal: > $ ps -e | grep '*foo.sh*' > > Why doesn't the process show up? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Sun Oct 12 21:55:12 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ps does not show all processes? In-Reply-To: <3F8A1167.8050501@eworld3.net> References: <3F89E8C9.5000908@eworld3.net> <3F8A1167.8050501@eworld3.net> Message-ID: <3F8A1410.1080206@eworld3.net> Ok, I admit my grep was a bit faulty. I find bash processes with this: $ ps -e |grep '.*as.*' 2432 pts/2 00:00:00 bash 2444 pts/4 00:00:00 bash 2467 pts/5 00:00:00 bash 15087 pts/5 00:00:00 bash 15366 pts/4 00:00:00 bash but substituting 'foo' for 'as' makes no difference, I still don't see my script running. In fact if you capture all the output of ps with $ ps -e > bar and simply look at the end of the list, you see the sleep but not foo.sh. Rick Meyerhoff wrote: > I tried all those and I still don't see it. I know it does not make any > sense. Did you guys actually try it? > > Rick Meyerhoff wrote: > >> Try this: >> >> 1. Save this one line shell script into a file called foo.sh: >> >> # >> sleep 200 >> # >> >> 2. $ chmod 755 foo.sh >> 3. $ ./foo.sh >> 4. In another terminal: >> $ ps -e | grep '*foo.sh*' >> >> Why doesn't the process show up? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Sun Oct 12 21:58:49 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ps does not show all processes? In-Reply-To: <3F8A1410.1080206@eworld3.net> References: <3F89E8C9.5000908@eworld3.net> <3F8A1167.8050501@eworld3.net> <3F8A1410.1080206@eworld3.net> Message-ID: <20031013025848.GB24160@fandre.com> You won't see your "foo.sh" process because you are not actually spawning off a new process. If all you have in your script is "sleep 200" then your current shell process will run that, which will show up as "bash" in your process list, not foo.sh. You need to include the magic line "#!/bin/bash" in order to have it spawn off a seperate child process named foo.sh. On Sun, 12 Oct 2003, Rick Meyerhoff wrote: > Ok, I admit my grep was a bit faulty. I find bash processes with this: > $ ps -e |grep '.*as.*' > 2432 pts/2 00:00:00 bash > 2444 pts/4 00:00:00 bash > 2467 pts/5 00:00:00 bash > 15087 pts/5 00:00:00 bash > 15366 pts/4 00:00:00 bash > > but substituting 'foo' for 'as' makes no difference, I still don't see > my script running. In fact if you capture all the output of ps with > > $ ps -e > bar > > and simply look at the end of the list, you see the sleep but not foo.sh. > > Rick Meyerhoff wrote: > >I tried all those and I still don't see it. I know it does not make any > >sense. Did you guys actually try it? > > > >Rick Meyerhoff wrote: > > > >>Try this: > >> > >>1. Save this one line shell script into a file called foo.sh: > >> > >># > >>sleep 200 > >># > >> > >>2. $ chmod 755 foo.sh > >>3. $ ./foo.sh > >>4. In another terminal: > >>$ ps -e | grep '*foo.sh*' > >> > >>Why doesn't the process show up? > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Clay Fandre email: clay at fandre.com PGP Key ID: 0x50DBBB60 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john4293 at umn.edu Sun Oct 12 22:03:28 2003 From: john4293 at umn.edu (Thomas Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... In-Reply-To: <20031013005631.GU10449@autonomous.tv> References: <3F7AF009.2050409@ppdonline.com> <20031010041959.7dc8ef89.crc1021@myrealbox.com> <20031010185945.2002b144.ston0235@umn.edu> <20031010222140.17360acc.sfertch@real-time.com> <20031011001641.7e97fb64.ston0235@umn.edu> <20031013005631.GU10449@autonomous.tv> Message-ID: <20031012220328.6a339163.john4293@umn.edu> speaking of the command line and nifty audio tools.. i don't know if it's already been mentioned in this thread, but for ripping from cd to ogg/flac (and mp3) i've been using a perl script called crip (http://bach.dynet.com/crip/). i used to use grip (mentioned above) but i got tired of various quirks in it. crip is quick and easy and i really like it's default method of naming files: [artist]-[album abreviation][track #]-[title] it keeps albums sorted properly even if i have multiple albums by one artist in one directory. Thomas Johnson _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Ryan at IntegraOnline.Com Sun Oct 12 22:40:52 2003 From: Ryan at IntegraOnline.Com (Ryan Oertel) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Xinerama blanking screens In-Reply-To: <00dc01c3912c$ea27eee0$0201a8c0@brinstar> References: <1066009961.3311.5.camel@sd3.mailbank.com> <00dc01c3912c$ea27eee0$0201a8c0@brinstar> Message-ID: <1066016451.1689.4.camel@sd3.mailbank.com> I've read that document, but I'm pretty sure the relationship is there. In the XF86Config ServerLayout section, there is a 'RightOf' relationship. Before I had Xinerama turned on, I'd get two completely separate desktops. Now, I only have one 'hat menu' (on the primary screen). The other strange thing, if I don't have the mouse in the primary screen when doing the CTRL+ALT+F8/7 stuff, the primary screen does not come back. This one sure has me stumped. On Sun, 2003-10-12 at 20:54, David Phillips wrote: > Ryan Oertel writes: > > I've hand-modified the original XF86Config to include the second > > monitor, video card and screen sections. > > I don't know anything about Xinerama, or even much about XFree86, but it > appears that you left out the relationships between the displays. This may > be your problem, or at least something you'll want. > > http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Xinerama-HOWTO/ -- Ryan Oertel -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031012/177efeae/attachment.pgp From mike at JentgeS.NeT Sun Oct 12 22:31:25 2003 From: mike at JentgeS.NeT (Michael Jentges) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hard Disk In-Reply-To: <20031013012929.GA24160@fandre.com> References: <3F89C221.8030208@ToyotaVans.OrG> <001d01c39128$e06635a0$0436a8c0@Kurama> <20031013012929.GA24160@fandre.com> Message-ID: <33245.199.199.150.14.1066015885.squirrel@webmail.jentges.net> Thanks for the feedback! What I should have perhaps clarified is that I know I can install using serial port, but what I'm wondering is if the box will physically beep and flip out with no video card or can it be ignored sort of like the 'No Keyboard' you see on the serial console....? -mj And hence spewed: Clay Fandre > > On Sun, 12 Oct 2003, Joseph wrote: > >> >> >BTW, does anyone know if they need a video card physically installed >> to >> >> >run or does it blow by that because of the serial console thing? >> >> I've done some installs on and IPX and sparc 1 using the serial port. >> Mostly NetBSD but the Linux distros for sparcs should support serial >> installs. >> > > I've done debian network installs on a Classic and Sparc5 via the > serial console. Not a problem. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list --------------------- Jentges.NET, Inc. Voice: 763.783.3702 Cell: 763.370.1201 --------------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david.blevins at visi.com Mon Oct 13 00:56:56 2003 From: david.blevins at visi.com (David Blevins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PHP 4.3.x on RH 9 Message-ID: <20031013055656.GA28558@sweetums.ce1.client2.attbi.com> Just out of curiosity...anyone on the list ever manage to upgrate the PHP version on a RedHat 9 box to PHP 4.3.x? I have been been trying all day to get a program running (Gallery) that needs 4.3.x when using Apache 2 (thanks RedHat), just want to know if I'm wasting my time. -David _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com Mon Oct 13 08:04:05 2003 From: Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com (Lansing, Dan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hard Disk Message-ID: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D3736@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> I might have one I can part with for free...have to check though...i know I have a stack of 4gig drives, there may be a 10 gig in there too Dan Lansing ITSC -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Sam MacDonald Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2003 2:24 PM To: TC LUG Subject: [TCLUG] Hard Disk Does anyone have a 10 - 20 gig (used) hard disk? I'll can pay $20 for it. I'm afraid the old SCSI disks in my machine are going to die. Sam _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kcbnac at myrealbox.com Mon Oct 13 08:16:29 2003 From: kcbnac at myrealbox.com (K B) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hard Disk Message-ID: <1066050989.b5060ba0kcbnac@myrealbox.com> Do you need SCSI? I've got some 18.2 GB 10ks (80pin- the mini kind) I could sell you for that. If IDE, though, smallest I've got (on hand) is 80...I'll part with that for little more than $1/GB. Doubt you need that much, though. -----Original Message----- From: Sam MacDonald To: TC LUG Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 14:24:01 -0500 Subject: [TCLUG] Hard Disk Does anyone have a 10 - 20 gig (used) hard disk? I'll can pay $20 for it. I'm afraid the old SCSI disks in my machine are going to die. Sam _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bruce.broecker at toro.com Mon Oct 13 08:43:31 2003 From: bruce.broecker at toro.com (Bruce Broecker) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:09 2005 Subject: Sparc 5 parts (was [TCLUG] Hard Disk) Message-ID: I've got a pair of Sparc drive sleds out of a Sparcstation 20. Will those work for you? As for the video card, I know that the Sparc will boot to the serial console if there is no keyboard or mouse connected, so I would have to assume that the same would apply if no video card is present. Bruce Bruce Broecker Network Comm Supervisor The Toro Company >>> mj@ToyotaVans.OrG 10/12/03 04:05PM >>> I could REALLY use some sparc5 bits and pieces. :) Drivesled(s) & RAM. Not a whole heap, these are just experimental/educational machines. BTW, does anyone know if they need a video card physically installed to run or does it blow by that because of the serial console thing? Thanks... -mj _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Mon Oct 13 08:55:21 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hard Disk In-Reply-To: <3F89C221.8030208@ToyotaVans.OrG> References: <3F89AA51.5050708@visi.com> <3F89C221.8030208@ToyotaVans.OrG> Message-ID: <1066053319.543.33.camel@unixws1> That reminds me. I have an SS-20 that died on me (SCSI controller on mainboard released the magic blue smoke). If anyone wants to salvage any of the parts for a really good price, please let me know. I believe I had: 256MB RAM (2) 90MHz Ross HyperSparc processors (2) small (1 or 2GB) SCSI disks (1) drivesled (1) drivesled made of lego's, rubber bands, and a piece of paper* And obviously, the SS20 pizza box, NVRAM, and dead board *Piece of paper not included. Lego(tm) drivesled also compatible with the IBM PS/2 and DEC Avanti systems. Lego is a registered trademark of Lego Corporation, Denmark. May void warranty. Piece of paper may catch fire. WARNING: Use of Lego drive-sled may attract Lego-men, Lego-women, and Lego-horses, which could result in a small but advanced Lego civilization forming in your computer. Safe and humane removal of Lego villages is the customer's responsibility. I also seem to be stockpiling SBus framebuffers. I must have half a dozen at least, and I've never bothered to purchase the Sun->VGA adapter, so I've always just pulled them out of my boxes and threw them into storage. I really got the shaft on this thing. I bought it at a really good price a couple of years ago, and decided to double the ram and buy a second processor for it. About 3 months after the upgrade the board died. Rather than try and replace the board, I just moved to an Ultra and left the SS20 in the closet. If anyone wants to try and find an SS-20 board, I'll part with the system as-is cheap. Or if you know where I can get a *really* good deal on the board myself, I may buy it and resurrect the machine at home. On Sun, 2003-10-12 at 16:05, Michael H. Jentges wrote: > I likely have something in that range, but I think it cost me more like > $30 from eBay, and I can sell it to a customer for that (eventually) so > I can't see letting go for less. Whether that makes me stupid or not, I > don't know but if you want to look at something like that just holler > and I'll pillage the piles. Perhaps you have something to trade? IIRC, > you had some stuff a while back? > > I could REALLY use some sparc5 bits and pieces. :) > > Drivesled(s) & RAM. Not a whole heap, these are just > experimental/educational machines. > > BTW, does anyone know if they need a video card physically installed to > run or does it blow by that because of the serial console thing? > > Thanks... > > -mj > > Sam MacDonald wrote: > > > Does anyone have a 10 - 20 gig (used) hard disk? > > I'll can pay $20 for it. I'm afraid the old SCSI disks in my machine > > are going to die. > > > > Sam > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > Adam Maloney Systems Administrator Sihope Communications _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sulrich at botwerks.org Mon Oct 13 08:55:18 2003 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:09 2005 Subject: Sparc 5 parts (was [TCLUG] Hard Disk) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031013135518.GA30096@botwerks.org> when last we saw our hero (Monday, Oct 13, 2003), Bruce Broecker was madly tapping out: > I've got a pair of Sparc drive sleds out of a Sparcstation 20. Will > those work for you? > > As for the video card, I know that the Sparc will boot to the serial > console if there is no keyboard or mouse connected, so I would have > to assume that the same would apply if no video card is present. a sparc is perfectly happy without a video card. there are those (myself included) who would argue that you shouldn't run a sparc any other way. ;-) > >>> mj@ToyotaVans.OrG 10/12/03 04:05PM >>> > > > I could REALLY use some sparc5 bits and pieces. :) > > Drivesled(s) & RAM. Not a whole heap, these are just > experimental/educational machines. > > BTW, does anyone know if they need a video card physically installed > to run or does it blow by that because of the serial console thing? > > Thanks... -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jima at beer.tclug.org Mon Oct 13 08:58:34 2003 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hard Disk In-Reply-To: <33245.199.199.150.14.1066015885.squirrel@webmail.jentges.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 12 Oct 2003, Michael Jentges wrote: > What I should have perhaps clarified is that I know I can install using > serial port, but what I'm wondering is if the box will physically beep and > flip out with no video card or can it be ignored sort of like the 'No > Keyboard' you see on the serial console....? If there's no keyboard attached, it won't even initialize the video card. I'm not positive (all of my Sparcs have onboard video, except the U1's, which I installed eons ago), but I highly doubt you need one. Jima _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bruce.broecker at toro.com Mon Oct 13 09:05:34 2003 From: bruce.broecker at toro.com (Bruce Broecker) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hard Disk Message-ID: I've got an SS20 that's about to go out with our computer recycling. Was working when pulled from service. Let me know SOON if you want it. Bruce Bruce Broecker Network Comm Supervisor The Toro Company >>> adamm@sihope.com 10/13/03 08:55AM >>> That reminds me. I have an SS-20 that died on me (SCSI controller on mainboard released the magic blue smoke). If anyone wants to salvage any of the parts for a really good price, please let me know. I believe I had: 256MB RAM (2) 90MHz Ross HyperSparc processors (2) small (1 or 2GB) SCSI disks (1) drivesled (1) drivesled made of lego's, rubber bands, and a piece of paper* And obviously, the SS20 pizza box, NVRAM, and dead board *Piece of paper not included. Lego(tm) drivesled also compatible with the IBM PS/2 and DEC Avanti systems. Lego is a registered trademark of Lego Corporation, Denmark. May void warranty. Piece of paper may catch fire. WARNING: Use of Lego drive-sled may attract Lego-men, Lego-women, and Lego-horses, which could result in a small but advanced Lego civilization forming in your computer. Safe and humane removal of Lego villages is the customer's responsibility. I also seem to be stockpiling SBus framebuffers. I must have half a dozen at least, and I've never bothered to purchase the Sun->VGA adapter, so I've always just pulled them out of my boxes and threw them into storage. I really got the shaft on this thing. I bought it at a really good price a couple of years ago, and decided to double the ram and buy a second processor for it. About 3 months after the upgrade the board died. Rather than try and replace the board, I just moved to an Ultra and left the SS20 in the closet. If anyone wants to try and find an SS-20 board, I'll part with the system as-is cheap. Or if you know where I can get a *really* good deal on the board myself, I may buy it and resurrect the machine at home. On Sun, 2003-10-12 at 16:05, Michael H. Jentges wrote: > I likely have something in that range, but I think it cost me more like > $30 from eBay, and I can sell it to a customer for that (eventually) so > I can't see letting go for less. Whether that makes me stupid or not, I > don't know but if you want to look at something like that just holler > and I'll pillage the piles. Perhaps you have something to trade? IIRC, > you had some stuff a while back? > > I could REALLY use some sparc5 bits and pieces. :) > > Drivesled(s) & RAM. Not a whole heap, these are just > experimental/educational machines. > > BTW, does anyone know if they need a video card physically installed to > run or does it blow by that because of the serial console thing? > > Thanks... > > -mj > > Sam MacDonald wrote: > > > Does anyone have a 10 - 20 gig (used) hard disk? > > I'll can pay $20 for it. I'm afraid the old SCSI disks in my machine > > are going to die. > > > > Sam > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > Adam Maloney Systems Administrator Sihope Communications _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From admin at lctn.org Mon Oct 13 09:53:22 2003 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] can I run two instances of apache? Message-ID: <042901c39199$c00431b0$650b0b0a@DELL2> I have a ticket program that I have been able to install on Apache 1.38, but not on my current 2.47 version. If I compile from source can I run both instances at the same time if one runs on something beside port 80? Raymond _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Mon Oct 13 09:59:24 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hard Disk In-Reply-To: <1066053319.543.33.camel@unixws1> References: <3F89AA51.5050708@visi.com> <3F89C221.8030208@ToyotaVans.OrG> <1066053319.543.33.camel@unixws1> Message-ID: <3F8ABDCC.9030901@visi.com> I'm not working at present but an SS20 case would be cool! :-) Could do a full conversion on it just for fun. I put a pentium system in a dead IIsi once, drove several people a little crazy. Something about calling Steve Job's, havening me strung up, and must be on satans side... ;-) If anyone wants to get rid of an old sparq system that would be fun. Adam Maloney wrote: >That reminds me. > >I have an SS-20 that died on me (SCSI controller on mainboard released >the magic blue smoke). If anyone wants to salvage any of the parts for >a really good price, please let me know. > >I believe I had: > >256MB RAM >(2) 90MHz Ross HyperSparc processors >(2) small (1 or 2GB) SCSI disks >(1) drivesled >(1) drivesled made of lego's, rubber bands, and a piece of paper* > >And obviously, the SS20 pizza box, NVRAM, and dead board > >*Piece of paper not included. Lego(tm) drivesled also compatible with >the IBM PS/2 and DEC Avanti systems. Lego is a registered trademark of >Lego Corporation, Denmark. May void warranty. Piece of paper may catch >fire. WARNING: Use of Lego drive-sled may attract Lego-men, Lego-women, >and Lego-horses, which could result in a small but advanced Lego >civilization forming in your computer. Safe and humane removal of Lego >villages is the customer's responsibility. > >I also seem to be stockpiling SBus framebuffers. I must have half a >dozen at least, and I've never bothered to purchase the Sun->VGA >adapter, so I've always just pulled them out of my boxes and threw them >into storage. > >I really got the shaft on this thing. I bought it at a really good >price a couple of years ago, and decided to double the ram and buy a >second processor for it. About 3 months after the upgrade the board >died. Rather than try and replace the board, I just moved to an Ultra >and left the SS20 in the closet. If anyone wants to try and find an >SS-20 board, I'll part with the system as-is cheap. Or if you know >where I can get a *really* good deal on the board myself, I may buy it >and resurrect the machine at home. > >On Sun, 2003-10-12 at 16:05, Michael H. Jentges wrote: > > >>I likely have something in that range, but I think it cost me more like >>$30 from eBay, and I can sell it to a customer for that (eventually) so >>I can't see letting go for less. Whether that makes me stupid or not, I >>don't know but if you want to look at something like that just holler >>and I'll pillage the piles. Perhaps you have something to trade? IIRC, >>you had some stuff a while back? >> >>I could REALLY use some sparc5 bits and pieces. :) >> >>Drivesled(s) & RAM. Not a whole heap, these are just >>experimental/educational machines. >> >>BTW, does anyone know if they need a video card physically installed to >>run or does it blow by that because of the serial console thing? >> >>Thanks... >> >>-mj >> >>Sam MacDonald wrote: >> >> >> >>>Does anyone have a 10 - 20 gig (used) hard disk? >>>I'll can pay $20 for it. I'm afraid the old SCSI disks in my machine >>>are going to die. >>> >>>Sam >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> > >Adam Maloney >Systems Administrator >Sihope Communications > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Mon Oct 13 10:01:34 2003 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (Johnny Fulcrum) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] can I run two instances of apache? In-Reply-To: <042901c39199$c00431b0$650b0b0a@DELL2> References: <042901c39199$c00431b0$650b0b0a@DELL2> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:53:22 -0500, Raymond Norton wrote: > I have a ticket program that I have been able to install on Apache 1.38, > but > not on my current 2.47 version. If I compile from source can I run both > instances at the same time if one runs on something beside port 80? > yeah > > Raymond > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Mon Oct 13 10:03:45 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] can I run two instances of apache? References: <042901c39199$c00431b0$650b0b0a@DELL2> Message-ID: <001801c3919b$32d8e720$0201a8c0@brinstar> Raymond Norton writes: > I have a ticket program that I have been able to install on Apache > 1.38, but not on my current 2.47 version. If I compile from source > can I run both instances at the same time if one runs on something > beside port 80? Yes. You could also run each on port 80 on two different IP addresses. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Mon Oct 13 10:10:25 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] can I run two instances of apache? In-Reply-To: <042901c39199$c00431b0$650b0b0a@DELL2> References: <042901c39199$c00431b0$650b0b0a@DELL2> Message-ID: <1066057824.543.51.camel@unixws1> Yes, just make sure they have different Apache root directories, and PID files as well as different ports (Listen directive) I've seen people do this running one SSL apache and one non-SSL apache. On Mon, 2003-10-13 at 09:53, Raymond Norton wrote: > I have a ticket program that I have been able to install on Apache 1.38, but > not on my current 2.47 version. If I compile from source can I run both > instances at the same time if one runs on something beside port 80? > > > Raymond > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Mon Oct 13 10:20:08 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hard Disk In-Reply-To: <3F8ABDCC.9030901@visi.com> References: <3F89AA51.5050708@visi.com> <3F89C221.8030208@ToyotaVans.OrG> <1066053319.543.33.camel@unixws1> <3F8ABDCC.9030901@visi.com> Message-ID: <1066058407.543.58.camel@unixws1> Looks like my SS-20 may survive after-all, but if you really want to do this I think I have 3-4 SS-1 and SS-2 pizza boxes laying around, if I haven't already junked them. On Mon, 2003-10-13 at 09:59, Sam MacDonald wrote: > I'm not working at present but an SS20 case would be cool! :-) > > Could do a full conversion on it just for fun. I put a pentium system > in a dead IIsi once, drove several people a little crazy. Something > about calling Steve Job's, havening me strung up, and must be on satans > side... ;-) > > If anyone wants to get rid of an old sparq system that would be fun. > > Adam Maloney wrote: > > >That reminds me. > > > >I have an SS-20 that died on me (SCSI controller on mainboard released > >the magic blue smoke). If anyone wants to salvage any of the parts for > >a really good price, please let me know. > > > >I believe I had: > > > >256MB RAM > >(2) 90MHz Ross HyperSparc processors > >(2) small (1 or 2GB) SCSI disks > >(1) drivesled > >(1) drivesled made of lego's, rubber bands, and a piece of paper* > > > >And obviously, the SS20 pizza box, NVRAM, and dead board > > > >*Piece of paper not included. Lego(tm) drivesled also compatible with > >the IBM PS/2 and DEC Avanti systems. Lego is a registered trademark of > >Lego Corporation, Denmark. May void warranty. Piece of paper may catch > >fire. WARNING: Use of Lego drive-sled may attract Lego-men, Lego-women, > >and Lego-horses, which could result in a small but advanced Lego > >civilization forming in your computer. Safe and humane removal of Lego > >villages is the customer's responsibility. > > > >I also seem to be stockpiling SBus framebuffers. I must have half a > >dozen at least, and I've never bothered to purchase the Sun->VGA > >adapter, so I've always just pulled them out of my boxes and threw them > >into storage. > > > >I really got the shaft on this thing. I bought it at a really good > >price a couple of years ago, and decided to double the ram and buy a > >second processor for it. About 3 months after the upgrade the board > >died. Rather than try and replace the board, I just moved to an Ultra > >and left the SS20 in the closet. If anyone wants to try and find an > >SS-20 board, I'll part with the system as-is cheap. Or if you know > >where I can get a *really* good deal on the board myself, I may buy it > >and resurrect the machine at home. > > > >On Sun, 2003-10-12 at 16:05, Michael H. Jentges wrote: > > > > > >>I likely have something in that range, but I think it cost me more like > >>$30 from eBay, and I can sell it to a customer for that (eventually) so > >>I can't see letting go for less. Whether that makes me stupid or not, I > >>don't know but if you want to look at something like that just holler > >>and I'll pillage the piles. Perhaps you have something to trade? IIRC, > >>you had some stuff a while back? > >> > >>I could REALLY use some sparc5 bits and pieces. :) > >> > >>Drivesled(s) & RAM. Not a whole heap, these are just > >>experimental/educational machines. > >> > >>BTW, does anyone know if they need a video card physically installed to > >>run or does it blow by that because of the serial console thing? > >> > >>Thanks... > >> > >>-mj > >> > >>Sam MacDonald wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>>Does anyone have a 10 - 20 gig (used) hard disk? > >>>I'll can pay $20 for it. I'm afraid the old SCSI disks in my machine > >>>are going to die. > >>> > >>>Sam > >>> > >>> > >>>_______________________________________________ > >>>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >>>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > >>>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > >> > >> > >> > > > >Adam Maloney > >Systems Administrator > >Sihope Communications > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Mon Oct 13 12:05:12 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hard Disk In-Reply-To: <1066058407.543.58.camel@unixws1> References: <3F89AA51.5050708@visi.com> <3F89C221.8030208@ToyotaVans.OrG> <1066053319.543.33.camel@unixws1> <3F8ABDCC.9030901@visi.com> <1066058407.543.58.camel@unixws1> Message-ID: <3F8ADB48.104@visi.com> Sounds like fun! Let me know if, when, and where! :-) Sam Adam Maloney wrote: >Looks like my SS-20 may survive after-all, but if you really want to do >this I think I have 3-4 SS-1 and SS-2 pizza boxes laying around, if I >haven't already junked them. > >On Mon, 2003-10-13 at 09:59, Sam MacDonald wrote: > > >>I'm not working at present but an SS20 case would be cool! :-) >> >>Could do a full conversion on it just for fun. I put a pentium system >>in a dead IIsi once, drove several people a little crazy. Something >>about calling Steve Job's, havening me strung up, and must be on satans >>side... ;-) >> >>If anyone wants to get rid of an old sparq system that would be fun. >> >>Adam Maloney wrote: >> >> >> >>>That reminds me. >>> >>>I have an SS-20 that died on me (SCSI controller on mainboard released >>>the magic blue smoke). If anyone wants to salvage any of the parts for >>>a really good price, please let me know. >>> >>>I believe I had: >>> >>>256MB RAM >>>(2) 90MHz Ross HyperSparc processors >>>(2) small (1 or 2GB) SCSI disks >>>(1) drivesled >>>(1) drivesled made of lego's, rubber bands, and a piece of paper* >>> >>>And obviously, the SS20 pizza box, NVRAM, and dead board >>> >>>*Piece of paper not included. Lego(tm) drivesled also compatible with >>>the IBM PS/2 and DEC Avanti systems. Lego is a registered trademark of >>>Lego Corporation, Denmark. May void warranty. Piece of paper may catch >>>fire. WARNING: Use of Lego drive-sled may attract Lego-men, Lego-women, >>>and Lego-horses, which could result in a small but advanced Lego >>>civilization forming in your computer. Safe and humane removal of Lego >>>villages is the customer's responsibility. >>> >>>I also seem to be stockpiling SBus framebuffers. I must have half a >>>dozen at least, and I've never bothered to purchase the Sun->VGA >>>adapter, so I've always just pulled them out of my boxes and threw them >>>into storage. >>> >>>I really got the shaft on this thing. I bought it at a really good >>>price a couple of years ago, and decided to double the ram and buy a >>>second processor for it. About 3 months after the upgrade the board >>>died. Rather than try and replace the board, I just moved to an Ultra >>>and left the SS20 in the closet. If anyone wants to try and find an >>>SS-20 board, I'll part with the system as-is cheap. Or if you know >>>where I can get a *really* good deal on the board myself, I may buy it >>>and resurrect the machine at home. >>> >>>On Sun, 2003-10-12 at 16:05, Michael H. Jentges wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>I likely have something in that range, but I think it cost me more like >>>>$30 from eBay, and I can sell it to a customer for that (eventually) so >>>>I can't see letting go for less. Whether that makes me stupid or not, I >>>>don't know but if you want to look at something like that just holler >>>>and I'll pillage the piles. Perhaps you have something to trade? IIRC, >>>>you had some stuff a while back? >>>> >>>>I could REALLY use some sparc5 bits and pieces. :) >>>> >>>>Drivesled(s) & RAM. Not a whole heap, these are just >>>>experimental/educational machines. >>>> >>>>BTW, does anyone know if they need a video card physically installed to >>>>run or does it blow by that because of the serial console thing? >>>> >>>>Thanks... >>>> >>>>-mj >>>> >>>>Sam MacDonald wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Does anyone have a 10 - 20 gig (used) hard disk? >>>>>I'll can pay $20 for it. I'm afraid the old SCSI disks in my machine >>>>>are going to die. >>>>> >>>>>Sam >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>>>>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>>>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>Adam Maloney >>>Systems Administrator >>>Sihope Communications >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Mon Oct 13 12:34:29 2003 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:10 2005 Subject: AudioCD from MP3 (was Re: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs...) In-Reply-To: <20031011095628.54eb1c2b.william.layer@comcast.net> References: <3F7AF009.2050409@ppdonline.com> <20031010041959.7dc8ef89.crc1021@myrealbox.com> <20031010185945.2002b144.ston0235@umn.edu> <20031010222140.17360acc.sfertch@real-time.com> <20031011001641.7e97fb64.ston0235@umn.edu> <20031011095628.54eb1c2b.william.layer@comcast.net> Message-ID: <16266.57893.614046.97618@gargle.gargle.HOWL> IIRC, I found that the KDE GUI cd burner, k3b worked nicely to make audio cds from mp3s... R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Mon Oct 13 16:33:30 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... [ LOTGD ] In-Reply-To: <3F872935.7040202@visi.com> References: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D3733@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> <3F872935.7040202@visi.com> Message-ID: <1066080809.543.152.camel@unixws1> I can probably run it here if no one else wants to step forward. But I'd like to see what kind of interest we get first, before I invest the time in it. TCLUG poll anyone? On Fri, 2003-10-10 at 16:48, Sam MacDonald wrote: > Thinking to myself... "What does it take to run a games like lotgd?" > > I googled "lotgd" and found it on source forge, after a little reading. > I found the game on this website http://lotgd.net it's the site > where the developer has his game running. > The game uses Apache, PHP, and MySQL, it will run on Linux or Windows. > With that little bit of information I have everything it takes to run > the game ( I down loaded the files ), with little help, well maybe a lot > of help I can host the game. > > Off topic; > OMG! my son (9) is starting Clarinet lessons, the dogs in the hood will > be going insane! It's to late for me so I pity the dogs... > > I have some concerns... My concerns are bandwidth and disk use. > > *Down Side...* > I have a windows box http://www.screechowl.org/html/cpu.htm with about > 10 gig of free diskspace running Apache, PhP, and MySQL I know that is > as evil as it gets but I haven't had the time to convert my windows box > to Linux. I have several gig of data and applications I can't live > without. If I had a computer in the house my wife could use for work > stuff I would convert it in a minute, but I don't. > > *Up Side* > I have a Linux box with about 2 gig of free diskspace running Apache, > PhP and MySQL > BUT! > I have another project I just started, it's in the first stage of > becoming a real deal but I think it will fly. My website > http://www.screechowl.org has more information on the project and a > link to the Linux box (above) with the default Debian GNU Linux > webpage. The linux box is where the project site will live. I'm sure > some of the people involved with the project would play. > > *scary Side!* > Take a look at my website... http://www.screechowl.org Now if you > look in the index of "The Silmarillion" by: J.R.R. Tolkien you will find > something interesting about the name I chose for the server. If you you > don't have "The Silmarillion" (who wouldn't have it) Google the name > listed in the text you may find something interesting. > Like this website http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Ancalagon > > It gets better, my little 486 laptop is named angband, and my windows > server is named angrenost. > > Can you say "Karma"? > > Sam. > > Lansing, Dan wrote: > > >If anyone started a lotgd game going I would play daily....its not lord but it is open source....and very similar....don't need dosemu...runs native on Linux.....chock full of text based goodness > > > >Dan Lansing > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dante at argle.org Mon Oct 13 16:34:27 2003 From: dante at argle.org (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] can I run two instances of apache? In-Reply-To: <042901c39199$c00431b0$650b0b0a@DELL2> References: <042901c39199$c00431b0$650b0b0a@DELL2> Message-ID: <3F8B1A63.7020202@argle.org> You don't even need to recompile. Check the documentation on the "Listen" directive in the config files. Raymond Norton wrote: > I have a ticket program that I have been able to install on Apache 1.38, but > not on my current 2.47 version. If I compile from source can I run both > instances at the same time if one runs on something beside port 80? > > > Raymond > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com Mon Oct 13 16:38:37 2003 From: Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com (Lansing, Dan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... [ LOTGD ] Message-ID: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D373C@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> I could also host but I don't really know if I could set it up....im a little slow Dan Lansing -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Adam Maloney Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 4:34 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... [ LOTGD ] I can probably run it here if no one else wants to step forward. But I'd like to see what kind of interest we get first, before I invest the time in it. TCLUG poll anyone? On Fri, 2003-10-10 at 16:48, Sam MacDonald wrote: > Thinking to myself... "What does it take to run a games like lotgd?" > > I googled "lotgd" and found it on source forge, after a little reading. > I found the game on this website http://lotgd.net it's the site > where the developer has his game running. > The game uses Apache, PHP, and MySQL, it will run on Linux or Windows. > With that little bit of information I have everything it takes to run > the game ( I down loaded the files ), with little help, well maybe a lot > of help I can host the game. > > Off topic; > OMG! my son (9) is starting Clarinet lessons, the dogs in the hood will > be going insane! It's to late for me so I pity the dogs... > > I have some concerns... My concerns are bandwidth and disk use. > > *Down Side...* > I have a windows box http://www.screechowl.org/html/cpu.htm with about > 10 gig of free diskspace running Apache, PhP, and MySQL I know that is > as evil as it gets but I haven't had the time to convert my windows box > to Linux. I have several gig of data and applications I can't live > without. If I had a computer in the house my wife could use for work > stuff I would convert it in a minute, but I don't. > > *Up Side* > I have a Linux box with about 2 gig of free diskspace running Apache, > PhP and MySQL > BUT! > I have another project I just started, it's in the first stage of > becoming a real deal but I think it will fly. My website > http://www.screechowl.org has more information on the project and a > link to the Linux box (above) with the default Debian GNU Linux > webpage. The linux box is where the project site will live. I'm sure > some of the people involved with the project would play. > > *scary Side!* > Take a look at my website... http://www.screechowl.org Now if you > look in the index of "The Silmarillion" by: J.R.R. Tolkien you will find > something interesting about the name I chose for the server. If you you > don't have "The Silmarillion" (who wouldn't have it) Google the name > listed in the text you may find something interesting. > Like this website http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Ancalagon > > It gets better, my little 486 laptop is named angband, and my windows > server is named angrenost. > > Can you say "Karma"? > > Sam. > > Lansing, Dan wrote: > > >If anyone started a lotgd game going I would play daily....its not lord but it is open source....and very similar....don't need dosemu...runs native on Linux.....chock full of text based goodness > > > >Dan Lansing > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mike at JentgeS.NeT Mon Oct 13 17:03:23 2003 From: mike at JentgeS.NeT (Michael Jentges) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hard Disk In-Reply-To: References: <33245.199.199.150.14.1066015885.squirrel@webmail.jentges.net> Message-ID: <1200.199.199.150.6.1066082603.squirrel@webmail.jentges.net> Very cool. this might be kinda fun. :) And hence spewed: Jima > On Sun, 12 Oct 2003, Michael Jentges wrote: >> What I should have perhaps clarified is that I know I can install >> using serial port, but what I'm wondering is if the box will >> physically beep and flip out with no video card or can it be ignored >> sort of like the 'No Keyboard' you see on the serial console....? > > If there's no keyboard attached, it won't even initialize the video > card. > I'm not positive (all of my Sparcs have onboard video, except the U1's, > which I installed eons ago), but I highly doubt you need one. > > Jima > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list --------------------- Jentges.NET, Inc. Voice: 763.783.3702 Cell: 763.370.1201 --------------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mike at JentgeS.NeT Mon Oct 13 17:06:12 2003 From: mike at JentgeS.NeT (Michael Jentges) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hard Disk In-Reply-To: <1066050989.b5060ba0kcbnac@myrealbox.com> References: <1066050989.b5060ba0kcbnac@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: <1246.199.199.150.6.1066082772.squirrel@webmail.jentges.net> And hence spewed: K B > Do you need SCSI? I've got some 18.2 GB 10ks (80pin- the mini kind) I Are those the SCA connections? I am in need if they are!! I can never keep all the wide, ultra, etc straight. :) -mj > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list --------------------- Jentges.NET, Inc. Voice: 763.783.3702 Cell: 763.370.1201 --------------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Mon Oct 13 19:27:35 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ps does not show all processes? In-Reply-To: <20031013025848.GB24160@fandre.com> References: <3F89E8C9.5000908@eworld3.net> <3F8A1167.8050501@eworld3.net> <3F8A1410.1080206@eworld3.net> <20031013025848.GB24160@fandre.com> Message-ID: <3F8B42F7.1060808@eworld3.net> Ok, got it. But I thought that if you did not specify a program/shell that /bin/sh (in Linux I think this is usually bash) would be used. So what is the difference? I see that there is a difference but what is the reason? Clay Fandre wrote: > You won't see your "foo.sh" process because you are not actually > spawning off a new process. If all you have in your script is "sleep > 200" then your current shell process will run that, which will show up > as "bash" in your process list, not foo.sh. You need to include the > magic line "#!/bin/bash" in order to have it spawn off a seperate > child process named foo.sh. > > > On Sun, 12 Oct 2003, Rick Meyerhoff wrote: > > >>Ok, I admit my grep was a bit faulty. I find bash processes with this: >>$ ps -e |grep '.*as.*' >> 2432 pts/2 00:00:00 bash >> 2444 pts/4 00:00:00 bash >> 2467 pts/5 00:00:00 bash >>15087 pts/5 00:00:00 bash >>15366 pts/4 00:00:00 bash >> >>but substituting 'foo' for 'as' makes no difference, I still don't see >>my script running. In fact if you capture all the output of ps with >> >>$ ps -e > bar >> >>and simply look at the end of the list, you see the sleep but not foo.sh. >> >>Rick Meyerhoff wrote: >> >>>I tried all those and I still don't see it. I know it does not make any >>>sense. Did you guys actually try it? >>> >>>Rick Meyerhoff wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Try this: >>>> >>>>1. Save this one line shell script into a file called foo.sh: >>>> >>>># >>>>sleep 200 >>>># >>>> >>>>2. $ chmod 755 foo.sh >>>>3. $ ./foo.sh >>>>4. In another terminal: >>>>$ ps -e | grep '*foo.sh*' >>>> >>>>Why doesn't the process show up? >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff rick@eworld3.net 952-929-1659 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From spencer at autonomous.tv Mon Oct 13 19:47:39 2003 From: spencer at autonomous.tv (Spencer Butler) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ps does not show all processes? In-Reply-To: <3F8A1167.8050501@eworld3.net> References: <3F89E8C9.5000908@eworld3.net> <3F8A1167.8050501@eworld3.net> Message-ID: <20031014004739.GV10449@autonomous.tv> On Sun, Oct 12, 2003 at 09:43:51PM -0500, Rick Meyerhoff wrote: >I tried all those and I still don't see it. I know it does not make any >sense. Did you guys actually try it? I did try it, but out of habit I included the 'magic' Clay spoke of (#!/bin/bash) to my script. I thought it was some kind of geek quiz ;) -- Linux Administrator || Technology Specialist || Wifi Engineer http://autonomous.tv/~spencer/resume/ || spencer@autonomous.tv Key fingerprint = 173B 8760 E59F DBF8 6FD2 68F8 ABA2 AB08 49C7 4754 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031013/e0bc26bb/attachment.pgp From spencer at autonomous.tv Mon Oct 13 19:52:36 2003 From: spencer at autonomous.tv (Spencer Butler) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... In-Reply-To: <20031012220328.6a339163.john4293@umn.edu> References: <3F7AF009.2050409@ppdonline.com> <20031010041959.7dc8ef89.crc1021@myrealbox.com> <20031010185945.2002b144.ston0235@umn.edu> <20031010222140.17360acc.sfertch@real-time.com> <20031011001641.7e97fb64.ston0235@umn.edu> <20031013005631.GU10449@autonomous.tv> <20031012220328.6a339163.john4293@umn.edu> Message-ID: <20031014005236.GW10449@autonomous.tv> On Sun, Oct 12, 2003 at 10:03:28PM -0500, Thomas Johnson wrote: >speaking of the command line and nifty audio tools.. > >i don't know if it's already been mentioned in this thread, but for ripping from cd to ogg/flac (and mp3) i've been using a perl script called crip (http://bach.dynet.com/crip/). i used to use grip (mentioned above) but i got tired of various quirks in it. crip is quick and easy and i really like it's default method of naming files: [artist]-[album abreviation][track #]-[title] it keeps albums sorted properly even if i have multiple albums by one artist in one directory. To add to the list of command line rippers you may want to try abcde . I have had much success with it. -- Linux Administrator || Technology Specialist || Wifi Engineer http://autonomous.tv/~spencer/resume/ || spencer@autonomous.tv Key fingerprint = 173B 8760 E59F DBF8 6FD2 68F8 ABA2 AB08 49C7 4754 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031013/6e5f9aa2/attachment.pgp From scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net Mon Oct 13 21:52:09 2003 From: scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ps does not show all processes? In-Reply-To: <3F8B42F7.1060808@eworld3.net>; from rick@eworld3.net on Mon, Oct 13, 2003 at 07:27:35PM -0500 References: <3F89E8C9.5000908@eworld3.net> <3F8A1167.8050501@eworld3.net> <3F8A1410.1080206@eworld3.net> <20031013025848.GB24160@fandre.com> <3F8B42F7.1060808@eworld3.net> Message-ID: <20031013215208.A24960@thinkunix.net> I tried it too and got the same results as you did Rick: grepping for 'foo' I don't see the process, but if I grep for 'sleep' it shows up. Rick Meyerhoff wrote: > Ok, got it. But I thought that if you did not specify a program/shell > that /bin/sh (in Linux I think this is usually bash) would be used. So > what is the difference? I see that there is a difference but what is the > reason? Clay's explanation sums it up nicely. # find the sleep process $ ps -ef | grep sleep | grep -v grep user 20856 20855 0 21:43 tty7 00:00:00 sleep 300 # now grep for the parent of the sleep process, PPID=20855 $ ps -ef | grep 20855 user 20855 711 0 21:43 tty7 00:00:00 -bash # <== login shell user 20856 20855 0 21:43 tty7 00:00:00 sleep 300 # <== note PPID man ps(1) for more info about PID, PPID, and other info available. > Clay Fandre wrote: > > You won't see your "foo.sh" process because you are not actually > > spawning off a new process. If all you have in your script is "sleep > > 200" then your current shell process will run that, which will show up > > as "bash" in your process list, not foo.sh. You need to include the > > magic line "#!/bin/bash" in order to have it spawn off a seperate > > child process named foo.sh. > > > > > > On Sun, 12 Oct 2003, Rick Meyerhoff wrote: > > > > > >>Ok, I admit my grep was a bit faulty. I find bash processes with this: > >>$ ps -e |grep '.*as.*' > >> 2432 pts/2 00:00:00 bash > >> 2444 pts/4 00:00:00 bash > >> 2467 pts/5 00:00:00 bash > >>15087 pts/5 00:00:00 bash > >>15366 pts/4 00:00:00 bash > >> > >>but substituting 'foo' for 'as' makes no difference, I still don't see > >>my script running. In fact if you capture all the output of ps with > >> > >>$ ps -e > bar > >> > >>and simply look at the end of the list, you see the sleep but not foo.sh. > >> > >>Rick Meyerhoff wrote: > >> > >>>I tried all those and I still don't see it. I know it does not make any > >>>sense. Did you guys actually try it? > >>> > >>>Rick Meyerhoff wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>>>Try this: > >>>> > >>>>1. Save this one line shell script into a file called foo.sh: > >>>> > >>>># > >>>>sleep 200 > >>>># > >>>> > >>>>2. $ chmod 755 foo.sh > >>>>3. $ ./foo.sh > >>>>4. In another terminal: > >>>>$ ps -e | grep '*foo.sh*' > >>>> > >>>>Why doesn't the process show up? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jima at beer.tclug.org Tue Oct 14 08:11:14 2003 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hard Disk In-Reply-To: <1246.199.199.150.6.1066082772.squirrel@webmail.jentges.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Michael Jentges wrote: > And hence spewed: K B > > Do you need SCSI? I've got some 18.2 GB 10ks (80pin- the mini kind) I > > Are those the SCA connections? I am in need if they are!! Yeah, IIRC 80-pin = SCA. Keith, how many of these do you have, and how much are you looking for for them? > I can never keep all the wide, ultra, etc straight. :) Nor I. Jima _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kbongers at mninter.net Tue Oct 14 08:55:58 2003 From: kbongers at mninter.net (Karl Bongers) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] pc does not show all processes? Message-ID: <20031014135558.GA15833@karl> Actually it looks like bash does get spawned off in either case. Try a ps -e | grep pts/X to look at them. It's just that the command line invocation is different. If you look at /proc/PID/cmdline one shows up as "bash", the other shows up as "bash fo.sh". You can avoid spawning another bash by preceeding the command with "." . ./fo.sh This took me forever to figure out, man bash makes me sleepy. Comes in handy if you want to setup some evironment vars: . ./set_my_env_vars.sh Otherwise the env vars don't stick. >Ok, got it. But I thought that if you did not specify a program/shell >that /bin/sh (in Linux I think this is usually bash) would be used. So >what is the difference? I see that there is a difference but what is the >reason? Clay Fandre wrote: > You won't see your "foo.sh" process because you are not actually > spawning off a new process. If all you have in your script is "sleep > 200" then your current shell process will run that, which will show up > as "bash" in your process list, not foo.sh. You need to include the > magic line "#!/bin/bash" in order to have it spawn off a seperate > child process named foo.sh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Tue Oct 14 09:25:25 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] pc does not show all processes? References: <20031014135558.GA15833@karl> Message-ID: <001001c3925f$02382c10$0201a8c0@brinstar> Karl Bongers writes: > You can avoid spawning another bash by preceeding the command with "." > [...] > Comes in handy if you want to setup some evironment vars: The easier way is with the "source" command. It runs the specified file in the current shell. It is useful for re-running your bash rc script: source ~/.bashrc -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Tue Oct 14 10:11:06 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ps does not show all processes? In-Reply-To: <3F8B42F7.1060808@eworld3.net> References: <3F89E8C9.5000908@eworld3.net> <3F8A1167.8050501@eworld3.net> <3F8A1410.1080206@eworld3.net> <20031013025848.GB24160@fandre.com> <3F8B42F7.1060808@eworld3.net> Message-ID: <20031014151106.GA4153@fandre.com> That is true only if your current shell is /bin/sh or /bin/bash. But what if someone was using another shell and tried to run your script? The shebang (or hash-bang or pound-bang) makes the current shell spawn off a new process using the shell or program specified after the hash-bang. Much safer. On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Rick Meyerhoff wrote: > Ok, got it. But I thought that if you did not specify a program/shell > that /bin/sh (in Linux I think this is usually bash) would be used. So > what is the difference? I see that there is a difference but what is the > reason? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Tue Oct 14 10:24:36 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] pc does not show all processes? In-Reply-To: <20031014135558.GA15833@karl> References: <20031014135558.GA15833@karl> Message-ID: <20031014152436.GB4153@fandre.com> Yes, it does spawn off a child bash process: [0.06][cfandre@einstein:~]$ pstree -p 3164 bash(3164)---bash(3567)---sleep(3568) On Tue, 14 Oct 2003, Karl Bongers wrote: > Actually it looks like bash does get spawned off in either case. > Try a ps -e | grep pts/X to look at them. > It's just that the command line invocation is different. > If you look at /proc/PID/cmdline one shows up as "bash", > the other shows up as "bash fo.sh". > > You can avoid spawning another bash by preceeding the command with "." > . ./fo.sh > This took me forever to figure out, man bash makes me sleepy. > Comes in handy if you want to setup some evironment vars: > . ./set_my_env_vars.sh > Otherwise the env vars don't stick. > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From admin at lctn.org Tue Oct 14 10:32:50 2003 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] one of two ok Message-ID: <05ce01c39268$7b85b480$650b0b0a@DELL2> I was successful in setting up apache-1.3.28 + mod_perl + php on one server, and decided to try a couple different things on a second server, but php is not working this time around. I want to start over and give it another shot, but want to be sure nothing from the botched install conflicts with the new one. Is there anything I need to remove, besides the apache and php directory I just created before giving it another whirl? Raymond _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Tue Oct 14 11:22:12 2003 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] one of two ok In-Reply-To: <05ce01c39268$7b85b480$650b0b0a@DELL2> References: <05ce01c39268$7b85b480$650b0b0a@DELL2> Message-ID: <20031014162212.GA1460@mail.el-swifto.com> On Tue, Oct 14, 2003 at 10:32:50AM -0500, Raymond Norton wrote: > I was successful in setting up apache-1.3.28 + mod_perl + php on one server, Was this the install with mod_perl and PHP both static? If so, I'd be interested in seeing the procedure you used. -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Tue Oct 14 11:50:43 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] one of two ok In-Reply-To: <05ce01c39268$7b85b480$650b0b0a@DELL2> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Oct 2003, Raymond Norton wrote: > I was successful in setting up apache-1.3.28 + mod_perl + php on one server, > and decided to try a couple different things on a second server, but php is > not working this time around. I want to start over and give it another shot, > but want to be sure nothing from the botched install conflicts with the new > one. Is there anything I need to remove, besides the apache and php > directory I just created before giving it another whirl? something i have not used but was always keeping an eye on it the apachetoolbox (http://www.apachetoolbox.com/) which supposedly is a semi-automated way of installing patched and modules for apache Munir Nassar RedConcepts.NET http://redconcepts.net/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From admin at lctn.org Tue Oct 14 13:56:03 2003 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re:one of two ok References: <20031014170002.8939.87016.Mailman@pirate.real-time.com> Message-ID: <060301c39284$d38fc960$650b0b0a@DELL2> > I was successful in setting up apache-1.3.28 + mod_perl + php on one server, >Was this the install with mod_perl and PHP both static? >If so, I'd be interested in seeing the procedure you used. Here is what did work. Just more than I needed. http://www.hamptonandassociates.net/apache_tips.htm _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Tue Oct 14 17:31:57 2003 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Xinerama blanking screens In-Reply-To: <1066009961.3311.5.camel@sd3.mailbank.com> References: <1066009961.3311.5.camel@sd3.mailbank.com> Message-ID: <1066170716.4307.4.camel@3po> On Sun, 2003-10-12 at 20:52, Ryan Oertel wrote: > I'm attempting to get dual heads working again, using RH9 with > xinerama. When I move my mouse from the primary screen off the right > edge, the primary screen goes blank. If I'm creative and careful, I can > drag windows from the primary screen onto the second screen, but I can > never get the first screen back. I can work on both screens as long as > the mouse pointer does not leave the primary screen. Well, with anything related to the mouse cursor, a good thing to try is setting the video driver to use a software cursor rather than a hardware cursor. The software cursor doesn't refresh as nicely, but it tends to be more reliable. In your "Device" section, you'd put a line like Option "SWcursor" "on" Though I don't know if that goes in just one or both of the sections for your system.. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ It's not a tuber! / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031014/317b6784/attachment.pgp From trieff at greencaremankato.com Tue Oct 14 17:36:34 2003 From: trieff at greencaremankato.com (Thomas Rieff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux Printer Defaults In-Reply-To: <060301c39284$d38fc960$650b0b0a@DELL2> Message-ID: TCLUG, I installed SuSE 8.1 on a new machine and have a LaserJet 5N printer with a network card. When I send a print job or a test page, the printer wants to go to tray 2 and a4 paper. The default on the printer configuration says letter for the paper. Is there a place to set default linux paper size? Or, what am I missing? Tom Thomas Rieff GreenCare 1717 3rd Avenue Mankato, MN 56001 507-344-8314 Office 507-344-8316 Fax trieff@greencaremankato.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Tue Oct 14 17:41:47 2003 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Favorite Linux/Unix Programs... In-Reply-To: <1065912946.3661.12.camel@bigtime> References: <3F86C964.8040901@visi.com> <3F86C9C9.3080804@andersonfam.org> <20031010152021.GA16931@mail.el-swifto.com> <3F86CF80.8070901@andersonfam.org> <1065910626.3661.7.camel@bigtime> <20031011222527.GA21075@math.umn.edu> <1065912946.3661.12.camel@bigtime> Message-ID: <1066171307.4307.18.camel@3po> On Sat, 2003-10-11 at 17:55, Callum Lerwick wrote: > On Sat, 2003-10-11 at 17:25, Dan Drake wrote: > > Did you try "screen --help"? Looks like -R is precisely what you want: > > IIRC, the problem with this is -R refuses to reattach if something's > already attached. It refuses to do 'multidisplay'. I always leave my > desktop machine attached, so there's always at least one machine > attached at all times. I want to be able to get in remotely, so this > makes -R rather useless to me. ;P This is what `screen -x' is for: -x Attach to a not detached screen session. (Multi display mode). However, there doesn't appear to be an option to do reattach if available, and do multi-display if no screen is available, create a new one. But, this can be worked around with some shell trickery: screen -x || screen If 'screen -x' fails, screen will start a new session. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Can atheists get insurance / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ for acts of God? \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031014/8b27fd6b/attachment.pgp From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Tue Oct 14 19:07:35 2003 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:12 2005 Subject: Sparc 5 parts (was [TCLUG] Hard Disk) In-Reply-To: <20031013135518.GA30096@botwerks.org> References: <20031013135518.GA30096@botwerks.org> Message-ID: <1066176455.4307.246.camel@3po> On Mon, 2003-10-13 at 08:55, steve ulrich wrote: > when last we saw our hero (Monday, Oct 13, 2003), > Bruce Broecker was madly tapping out: > > I've got a pair of Sparc drive sleds out of a Sparcstation 20. Will > > those work for you? > > > > As for the video card, I know that the Sparc will boot to the serial > > console if there is no keyboard or mouse connected, so I would have > > to assume that the same would apply if no video card is present. > > a sparc is perfectly happy without a video card. there are those > (myself included) who would argue that you shouldn't run a sparc any > other way. ;-) What? You don't like being restricted to 8-bit color? (yeah, I know there are better framebuffers out there, but pseudocolor displays were the most common in my college experiences with Sun machines) -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Stick: A boomerang that / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ doesn't work. \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031014/1ade8059/attachment.pgp From duns0014 at umn.edu Tue Oct 14 22:26:24 2003 From: duns0014 at umn.edu (Joe Dunsmore) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] setting file to mozilla directory. Message-ID: <3F8CBE60.5000309@umn.edu> When I try to run galeon or epiphany, it says: Cannot find mozilla installation directory. Please set MOZILLA_FIVE_HOME to your mozilla directory What's that mean? how exactly do I do it? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Wed Oct 15 06:42:11 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:12 2005 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [TCLUG] Hard Disk] Message-ID: <3F8D3293.8040604@visi.com> Did you ever find the SS-1 or 2's? -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Hard Disk Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:05:12 -0500 From: Sam MacDonald To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org References: <3F89AA51.5050708@visi.com> <3F89C221.8030208@ToyotaVans.OrG> <1066053319.543.33.camel@unixws1> <3F8ABDCC.9030901@visi.com> <1066058407.543.58.camel@unixws1> Sounds like fun! Let me know if, when, and where! :-) Sam Adam Maloney wrote: >Looks like my SS-20 may survive after-all, but if you really want to do >this I think I have 3-4 SS-1 and SS-2 pizza boxes laying around, if I >haven't already junked them. > >On Mon, 2003-10-13 at 09:59, Sam MacDonald wrote: > > >>I'm not working at present but an SS20 case would be cool! :-) >> >>Could do a full conversion on it just for fun. I put a pentium system >>in a dead IIsi once, drove several people a little crazy. Something >>about calling Steve Job's, havening me strung up, and must be on satans >>side... ;-) >> >>If anyone wants to get rid of an old sparq system that would be fun. >> >>Adam Maloney wrote: >> >> >> >>>That reminds me. >>> >>>I have an SS-20 that died on me (SCSI controller on mainboard released >>>the magic blue smoke). If anyone wants to salvage any of the parts for >>>a really good price, please let me know. >>> >>>I believe I had: >>> >>>256MB RAM >>>(2) 90MHz Ross HyperSparc processors >>>(2) small (1 or 2GB) SCSI disks >>>(1) drivesled >>>(1) drivesled made of lego's, rubber bands, and a piece of paper* >>> >>>And obviously, the SS20 pizza box, NVRAM, and dead board >>> >>>*Piece of paper not included. Lego(tm) drivesled also compatible with >>>the IBM PS/2 and DEC Avanti systems. Lego is a registered trademark of >>>Lego Corporation, Denmark. May void warranty. Piece of paper may catch >>>fire. WARNING: Use of Lego drive-sled may attract Lego-men, Lego-women, >>>and Lego-horses, which could result in a small but advanced Lego >>>civilization forming in your computer. Safe and humane removal of Lego >>>villages is the customer's responsibility. >>> >>>I also seem to be stockpiling SBus framebuffers. I must have half a >>>dozen at least, and I've never bothered to purchase the Sun->VGA >>>adapter, so I've always just pulled them out of my boxes and threw them >>>into storage. >>> >>>I really got the shaft on this thing. I bought it at a really good >>>price a couple of years ago, and decided to double the ram and buy a >>>second processor for it. About 3 months after the upgrade the board >>>died. Rather than try and replace the board, I just moved to an Ultra >>>and left the SS20 in the closet. If anyone wants to try and find an >>>SS-20 board, I'll part with the system as-is cheap. Or if you know >>>where I can get a *really* good deal on the board myself, I may buy it >>>and resurrect the machine at home. >>> >>>On Sun, 2003-10-12 at 16:05, Michael H. Jentges wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>I likely have something in that range, but I think it cost me more like >>>>$30 from eBay, and I can sell it to a customer for that (eventually) so >>>>I can't see letting go for less. Whether that makes me stupid or not, I >>>>don't know but if you want to look at something like that just holler >>>>and I'll pillage the piles. Perhaps you have something to trade? IIRC, >>>>you had some stuff a while back? >>>> >>>>I could REALLY use some sparc5 bits and pieces. :) >>>> >>>>Drivesled(s) & RAM. Not a whole heap, these are just >>>>experimental/educational machines. >>>> >>>>BTW, does anyone know if they need a video card physically installed to >>>>run or does it blow by that because of the serial console thing? >>>> >>>>Thanks... >>>> >>>>-mj >>>> >>>>Sam MacDonald wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Does anyone have a 10 - 20 gig (used) hard disk? >>>>>I'll can pay $20 for it. I'm afraid the old SCSI disks in my machine >>>>>are going to die. >>>>> >>>>>Sam >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>>>>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>>>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>Adam Maloney >>>Systems Administrator >>>Sihope Communications >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From zibby+tclug at ringworld.org Wed Oct 15 09:46:15 2003 From: zibby+tclug at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] setting file to mozilla directory. In-Reply-To: <3F8CBE60.5000309@umn.edu> Message-ID: What you're browsers are looking for is the path to libgtkembedmoz.so, I think. :) Depending on how you installed mozilla (from packages, download and extract, etc.) you'll need to do something like this from an xterm: export MOZILLA_FIVE_HOME=/opt/mozilla/ Run galeon or epiphany from the xterm, if you get the error message, try a different path. When you find the right path, you can add that to your .xsession with your favorite text editor (if you're using an .xsession to start your window manager, etc.) or modify your GNOME or KDE session via the GUI to add the MOZILLA_FIVE_HOME enviorment variable. Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://www.ringworld.org A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From duns0014 at umn.edu Wed Oct 15 11:02:09 2003 From: duns0014 at umn.edu (Joe Dunsmore) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #3083 - 11 msgs In-Reply-To: <20031015170002.23279.19873.Mailman@pirate.real-time.com> References: <20031015170002.23279.19873.Mailman@pirate.real-time.com> Message-ID: <3F8D6F81.7080404@umn.edu> > What you're browsers are looking for is the path to libgtkembedmoz.so, I > think. :) Depending on how you installed mozilla (from packages, download > and extract, etc.) you'll need to do something like this from an xterm: > > export MOZILLA_FIVE_HOME=/opt/mozilla/ > > Run galeon or epiphany from the xterm, if you get the error message, try a > different path. When you find the right path, you can add that to your > .xsession with your favorite text editor (if you're using an .xsession > to start your window manager, etc.) or modify your GNOME or KDE session > via the GUI to add the MOZILLA_FIVE_HOME enviorment variable. thanks, but now I get this error, what's it even mean? also, I don't understand all that about adding something to my xsession. isn't there some way to just permanently point galeon to mozilla? /usr/bin/galeon-bin: relocation error: /usr/bin/galeon-bin: undefined symbol: _ZTV14nsGetInterface _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Wed Oct 15 12:06:05 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:12 2005 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [TCLUG] Hard Disk] In-Reply-To: <3F8D3293.8040604@visi.com> References: <3F8D3293.8040604@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031015120448.B92116@unix18.sihope.com> Yes, I have 2 SS-1's and 1 SS-2. I believe all 3 of them work, they just need drives. On Wed, 15 Oct 2003, Sam MacDonald wrote: > Did you ever find the SS-1 or 2's? > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Hard Disk > Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:05:12 -0500 > From: Sam MacDonald > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > References: <3F89AA51.5050708@visi.com> > <3F89C221.8030208@ToyotaVans.OrG> <1066053319.543.33.camel@unixws1> > <3F8ABDCC.9030901@visi.com> <1066058407.543.58.camel@unixws1> > > > > Sounds like fun! > Let me know if, when, and where! :-) > > Sam > > Adam Maloney wrote: > > >Looks like my SS-20 may survive after-all, but if you really want to do > >this I think I have 3-4 SS-1 and SS-2 pizza boxes laying around, if I > >haven't already junked them. > > > >On Mon, 2003-10-13 at 09:59, Sam MacDonald wrote: > > > > > >>I'm not working at present but an SS20 case would be cool! :-) > >> > >>Could do a full conversion on it just for fun. I put a pentium system > >>in a dead IIsi once, drove several people a little crazy. Something > >>about calling Steve Job's, havening me strung up, and must be on satans > >>side... ;-) > >> > >>If anyone wants to get rid of an old sparq system that would be fun. > >> > >>Adam Maloney wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>>That reminds me. > >>> > >>>I have an SS-20 that died on me (SCSI controller on mainboard released > >>>the magic blue smoke). If anyone wants to salvage any of the parts for > >>>a really good price, please let me know. > >>> > >>>I believe I had: > >>> > >>>256MB RAM > >>>(2) 90MHz Ross HyperSparc processors > >>>(2) small (1 or 2GB) SCSI disks > >>>(1) drivesled > >>>(1) drivesled made of lego's, rubber bands, and a piece of paper* > >>> > >>>And obviously, the SS20 pizza box, NVRAM, and dead board > >>> > >>>*Piece of paper not included. Lego(tm) drivesled also compatible with > >>>the IBM PS/2 and DEC Avanti systems. Lego is a registered trademark of > >>>Lego Corporation, Denmark. May void warranty. Piece of paper may catch > >>>fire. WARNING: Use of Lego drive-sled may attract Lego-men, Lego-women, > >>>and Lego-horses, which could result in a small but advanced Lego > >>>civilization forming in your computer. Safe and humane removal of Lego > >>>villages is the customer's responsibility. > >>> > >>>I also seem to be stockpiling SBus framebuffers. I must have half a > >>>dozen at least, and I've never bothered to purchase the Sun->VGA > >>>adapter, so I've always just pulled them out of my boxes and threw them > >>>into storage. > >>> > >>>I really got the shaft on this thing. I bought it at a really good > >>>price a couple of years ago, and decided to double the ram and buy a > >>>second processor for it. About 3 months after the upgrade the board > >>>died. Rather than try and replace the board, I just moved to an Ultra > >>>and left the SS20 in the closet. If anyone wants to try and find an > >>>SS-20 board, I'll part with the system as-is cheap. Or if you know > >>>where I can get a *really* good deal on the board myself, I may buy it > >>>and resurrect the machine at home. > >>> > >>>On Sun, 2003-10-12 at 16:05, Michael H. Jentges wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>I likely have something in that range, but I think it cost me more like > >>>>$30 from eBay, and I can sell it to a customer for that (eventually) so > >>>>I can't see letting go for less. Whether that makes me stupid or not, I > >>>>don't know but if you want to look at something like that just holler > >>>>and I'll pillage the piles. Perhaps you have something to trade? IIRC, > >>>>you had some stuff a while back? > >>>> > >>>>I could REALLY use some sparc5 bits and pieces. :) > >>>> > >>>>Drivesled(s) & RAM. Not a whole heap, these are just > >>>>experimental/educational machines. > >>>> > >>>>BTW, does anyone know if they need a video card physically installed to > >>>>run or does it blow by that because of the serial console thing? > >>>> > >>>>Thanks... > >>>> > >>>>-mj > >>>> > >>>>Sam MacDonald wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>Does anyone have a 10 - 20 gig (used) hard disk? > >>>>>I'll can pay $20 for it. I'm afraid the old SCSI disks in my machine > >>>>>are going to die. > >>>>> > >>>>>Sam > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >>>>>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > >>>>>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >>>>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > >>>>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>Adam Maloney > >>>Systems Administrator > >>>Sihope Communications > >>> > >>> > >>>_______________________________________________ > >>>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >>>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > >>>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > >> > >> > >> > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Wed Oct 15 12:27:50 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Used Techie Bookstore Message-ID: <20031015122750.00003b7e.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> I think it's been asked before, sorry if this is a re-hash. I'm looking for a good used book store that has lots of tech books and is fairly close to DT Minneapolis. In particular I'm looking for Photoshop and Oracle books, but I'd also like to see lots of Linux related titles. Any thoughts? Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Wed Oct 15 12:49:19 2003 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Used Techie Bookstore In-Reply-To: <20031015122750.00003b7e.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> References: <20031015122750.00003b7e.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: <20031015174919.GA7439@mail.el-swifto.com> On Wed, Oct 15, 2003 at 12:27:50PM -0500, Josh Trutwin wrote: > I'm looking for a good used book store that has lots of tech books and > is fairly close to DT Minneapolis. In particular I'm looking for > Photoshop and Oracle books, but I'd also like to see lots of Linux > related titles. I've had good luck at the used bookstores in the Dinkytown area. Parking is a pain but it's worth it otherwise. -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From JAustad at temgweb.com Wed Oct 15 13:05:58 2003 From: JAustad at temgweb.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Used Techie Bookstore Message-ID: <288FAF5565A1A74EA5E35C39E7EE1D420A1BDC70@mail.temgweb.com> Yeah, the one in Dinkytown is great. I picked up a TRS-80 assembly programming book there, and they also had "How to build your own 386 for under $4000". Someday, when I save up my 25 cents, I'll go back and buy the Visicalc Bible. :) > -----Original Message----- > From: John J. Trammell [mailto:trammell+tclug@el-swifto.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 12:49 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] [OT] Used Techie Bookstore > > > On Wed, Oct 15, 2003 at 12:27:50PM -0500, Josh Trutwin wrote: > > I'm looking for a good used book store that has lots of > tech books and > > is fairly close to DT Minneapolis. In particular I'm looking for > > Photoshop and Oracle books, but I'd also like to see lots of Linux > > related titles. > > I've had good luck at the used bookstores in the Dinkytown area. > Parking is a pain but it's worth it otherwise. > > -- > trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 > CC14 8ABA 36F5 > Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kbongers at mninter.net Wed Oct 15 14:29:43 2003 From: kbongers at mninter.net (Karl Bongers) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Used Techie Bookstore In-Reply-To: <288FAF5565A1A74EA5E35C39E7EE1D420A1BDC70@mail.temgweb.com> References: <288FAF5565A1A74EA5E35C39E7EE1D420A1BDC70@mail.temgweb.com> Message-ID: <20031015192943.GA7585@karl> On Wed, Oct 15, 2003 at 01:05:58PM -0500, Austad, Jay wrote: > Yeah, the one in Dinkytown is great. I picked up a TRS-80 assembly > programming book there, and they also had "How to build your own 386 for > under $4000". Someday, when I save up my 25 cents, I'll go back and buy the > Visicalc Bible. > > :) Surely you're joking, Mr. Feynman? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From JAustad at temgweb.com Wed Oct 15 15:01:39 2003 From: JAustad at temgweb.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Used Techie Bookstore Message-ID: <288FAF5565A1A74EA5E35C39E7EE1D420A1BDC75@mail.temgweb.com> I made up the Visicalc Bible, but the rest were true. They have some new stuff, but they have a ton of really old stuff too. It's fun to look through some of it. They had a unix book from 1978. They even had some software from the early 80's that was still in its shrinkwrap. > -----Original Message----- > From: Karl Bongers [mailto:kbongers@mninter.net] > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 2:30 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] [OT] Used Techie Bookstore > > > On Wed, Oct 15, 2003 at 01:05:58PM -0500, Austad, Jay wrote: > > Yeah, the one in Dinkytown is great. I picked up a TRS-80 assembly > > programming book there, and they also had "How to build > your own 386 for > > under $4000". Someday, when I save up my 25 cents, I'll go > back and buy the > > Visicalc Bible. > > > > :) > > Surely you're joking, Mr. Feynman? > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Wed Oct 15 14:38:41 2003 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (johnny fulcrum) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Used Techie Bookstore In-Reply-To: <20031015122750.00003b7e.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> References: <20031015122750.00003b7e.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: you can HAVE my oracle 7 books from a oracle taught Oracle admin class.... let me know. On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:27:50 -0500, Josh Trutwin wrote: > I think it's been asked before, sorry if this is a re-hash. > > I'm looking for a good used book store that has lots of tech books and > is fairly close to DT Minneapolis. In particular I'm looking for > Photoshop and Oracle books, but I'd also like to see lots of Linux > related titles. > > Any thoughts? > > Josh > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Wed Oct 15 16:26:22 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Used Techie Bookstore In-Reply-To: <20031015122750.00003b7e.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> References: <20031015122750.00003b7e.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: <3F8DBB7E.8030301@visi.com> I'm going to regret this... The Minneapolis public library has a book store in it. Used library books, and _sometimes_ they have tech books. They also have many other kinds of books just in case your looking for a good read. Sam. Josh Trutwin wrote: >I think it's been asked before, sorry if this is a re-hash. > >I'm looking for a good used book store that has lots of tech books and is fairly close to DT Minneapolis. In particular I'm looking for Photoshop and Oracle books, but I'd also like to see lots of Linux related titles. > >Any thoughts? > >Josh > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Wed Oct 15 16:28:51 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Used Techie Bookstore In-Reply-To: <288FAF5565A1A74EA5E35C39E7EE1D420A1BDC75@mail.temgweb.com> References: <288FAF5565A1A74EA5E35C39E7EE1D420A1BDC75@mail.temgweb.com> Message-ID: <3F8DBC13.3040603@visi.com> I have a "Using PC DOS" 2nd Edition by Que, it covers through Version 3.3. It has the best command and batch reference ever for DOS. Yes I love DOS! Sam. Austad, Jay wrote: >I made up the Visicalc Bible, but the rest were true. They have some new >stuff, but they have a ton of really old stuff too. It's fun to look >through some of it. They had a unix book from 1978. They even had some >software from the early 80's that was still in its shrinkwrap. > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Karl Bongers [mailto:kbongers@mninter.net] >>Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 2:30 PM >>To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>Subject: Re: [TCLUG] [OT] Used Techie Bookstore >> >> >>On Wed, Oct 15, 2003 at 01:05:58PM -0500, Austad, Jay wrote: >> >> >>>Yeah, the one in Dinkytown is great. I picked up a TRS-80 assembly >>>programming book there, and they also had "How to build >>> >>> >>your own 386 for >> >> >>>under $4000". Someday, when I save up my 25 cents, I'll go >>> >>> >>back and buy the >> >> >>>Visicalc Bible. >>> >>>:) >>> >>> >>Surely you're joking, Mr. Feynman? >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Wed Oct 15 16:30:47 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:13 2005 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [TCLUG] Hard Disk] In-Reply-To: <20031015120448.B92116@unix18.sihope.com> References: <3F8D3293.8040604@visi.com> <20031015120448.B92116@unix18.sihope.com> Message-ID: <3F8DBC87.8000408@visi.com> Is there a Beer meeting this week and where? Sam. Adam Maloney wrote: >Yes, I have 2 SS-1's and 1 SS-2. I believe all 3 of them work, they just >need drives. > > >On Wed, 15 Oct 2003, Sam MacDonald wrote: > > > >>Did you ever find the SS-1 or 2's? >> >> >> >>-------- Original Message -------- >>Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Hard Disk >>Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:05:12 -0500 >>From: Sam MacDonald >>To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>References: <3F89AA51.5050708@visi.com> >><3F89C221.8030208@ToyotaVans.OrG> <1066053319.543.33.camel@unixws1> >><3F8ABDCC.9030901@visi.com> <1066058407.543.58.camel@unixws1> >> >> >> >>Sounds like fun! >>Let me know if, when, and where! :-) >> >>Sam >> >>Adam Maloney wrote: >> >> >> >>>Looks like my SS-20 may survive after-all, but if you really want to do >>>this I think I have 3-4 SS-1 and SS-2 pizza boxes laying around, if I >>>haven't already junked them. >>> >>>On Mon, 2003-10-13 at 09:59, Sam MacDonald wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>I'm not working at present but an SS20 case would be cool! :-) >>>> >>>>Could do a full conversion on it just for fun. I put a pentium system >>>>in a dead IIsi once, drove several people a little crazy. Something >>>>about calling Steve Job's, havening me strung up, and must be on satans >>>>side... ;-) >>>> >>>>If anyone wants to get rid of an old sparq system that would be fun. >>>> >>>>Adam Maloney wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>That reminds me. >>>>> >>>>>I have an SS-20 that died on me (SCSI controller on mainboard released >>>>>the magic blue smoke). If anyone wants to salvage any of the parts for >>>>>a really good price, please let me know. >>>>> >>>>>I believe I had: >>>>> >>>>>256MB RAM >>>>>(2) 90MHz Ross HyperSparc processors >>>>>(2) small (1 or 2GB) SCSI disks >>>>>(1) drivesled >>>>>(1) drivesled made of lego's, rubber bands, and a piece of paper* >>>>> >>>>>And obviously, the SS20 pizza box, NVRAM, and dead board >>>>> >>>>>*Piece of paper not included. Lego(tm) drivesled also compatible with >>>>>the IBM PS/2 and DEC Avanti systems. Lego is a registered trademark of >>>>>Lego Corporation, Denmark. May void warranty. Piece of paper may catch >>>>>fire. WARNING: Use of Lego drive-sled may attract Lego-men, Lego-women, >>>>>and Lego-horses, which could result in a small but advanced Lego >>>>>civilization forming in your computer. Safe and humane removal of Lego >>>>>villages is the customer's responsibility. >>>>> >>>>>I also seem to be stockpiling SBus framebuffers. I must have half a >>>>>dozen at least, and I've never bothered to purchase the Sun->VGA >>>>>adapter, so I've always just pulled them out of my boxes and threw them >>>>>into storage. >>>>> >>>>>I really got the shaft on this thing. I bought it at a really good >>>>>price a couple of years ago, and decided to double the ram and buy a >>>>>second processor for it. About 3 months after the upgrade the board >>>>>died. Rather than try and replace the board, I just moved to an Ultra >>>>>and left the SS20 in the closet. If anyone wants to try and find an >>>>>SS-20 board, I'll part with the system as-is cheap. Or if you know >>>>>where I can get a *really* good deal on the board myself, I may buy it >>>>>and resurrect the machine at home. >>>>> >>>>>On Sun, 2003-10-12 at 16:05, Michael H. Jentges wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>I likely have something in that range, but I think it cost me more like >>>>>>$30 from eBay, and I can sell it to a customer for that (eventually) so >>>>>>I can't see letting go for less. Whether that makes me stupid or not, I >>>>>>don't know but if you want to look at something like that just holler >>>>>>and I'll pillage the piles. Perhaps you have something to trade? IIRC, >>>>>>you had some stuff a while back? >>>>>> >>>>>>I could REALLY use some sparc5 bits and pieces. :) >>>>>> >>>>>>Drivesled(s) & RAM. Not a whole heap, these are just >>>>>>experimental/educational machines. >>>>>> >>>>>>BTW, does anyone know if they need a video card physically installed to >>>>>>run or does it blow by that because of the serial console thing? >>>>>> >>>>>>Thanks... >>>>>> >>>>>>-mj >>>>>> >>>>>>Sam MacDonald wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>Does anyone have a 10 - 20 gig (used) hard disk? >>>>>>>I'll can pay $20 for it. I'm afraid the old SCSI disks in my machine >>>>>>>are going to die. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Sam >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>>>>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>>>>>>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>>>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>>>>>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>Adam Maloney >>>>>Systems Administrator >>>>>Sihope Communications >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>>>>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>>>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From np at f-matic.net Wed Oct 15 17:51:58 2003 From: np at f-matic.net (nick phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] speaking of used techie bookstores... anyone recommend a good inventory system? Message-ID: <1066258318.586.31.camel@debian> an kinda OT question, but these seems a good forum to post it... i'm in the beginning stages of starting up my own used bookstore that would (at least initially) sell solely online through existing retail channels like amazon, half.com, abe.com, and so on. i've spent about five years dealing with used books one way or another, and i've encountered many book database systems, most of them windows-based, and most of them fairly lacking in areas i would deem crucial to operating a decent scalable bookstore inventory system (i.e. lacking flexibile customization options, lacking a decent relational database system, and lacking flexible export options that would allow you to format your database to upload to more than one website, each of which accepts fairly different file formats from UIEE, tab-delimited, etc.). anyhow, i'm looking around for an ideal database system that allows flexibility for these options. i'd ideally like the system to run on linux, mainly for expandability -- i'd prefer to avoid incurring extra user fees each time i add a computer, and i'd prefer to avoid being forced into upgrading my OS for windows updates -- not to mention the other obvious benefits of using linux for business systems. i'd also prefer to use an open source database, also for keeping operating costs down. i'm not very knowledgeable on databases, and i've been doing some research into MySQL and PostgreSQL. as far as i can tell, both of these would provide a pretty robust DB system that could allow me to catalogue books in whatever format i need, and could eventually also power a e-commerce website should the need arise (which would be ideal, since i could have realtime interaction between cataloguing books, accepting online orders, and the central DB). however (and please correct me if i'm wrong), as i understand it, i would need to first build my database in MySQL or PostgreSQL, then build an application (in PHP or Perl or similar) to allow me to interact with this DB? i'm not a DB programmer, so i imagine i'd have to hire someone to build this for me -- can someone on this list give me a vague estimate the cost of such a project? or does such a thing as a prebuilt MySQL inventory system exist for linux? thinking ahead to opening a retail location, are there any prebuilt Point-Of-Sale systems for linux? i've done some googling, and found some old links to what look like abandoned POS-on-linux projects. i'd really prefer to avoid windows for this... can anyone offer me any advice? thanks, and please correct any of my misunderstandings. i'm fairly new to DB software, but i know there has to be something out there better than the Piece-of-Sh*t systems i've had to use in the past.. thanks in advance, Nick _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From eh at constantdata.com Wed Oct 15 17:39:15 2003 From: eh at constantdata.com (Abderrahman El Haddi.) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Technology forum at the U of M Message-ID: Please come visit us at the U of M 2003 Technology forum Exhibit. Checkout www.cs.umn.edu/open-house for more info. Just for fun we even have booth number 0 :-) Location: EE/CS building [ 200 Union Street SE, Mpls ] Date & Time: Friday Oct 17th 9:00-12:00 --elhaddi Constant Data (www.constantdata.com) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Wed Oct 15 18:10:19 2003 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (johnny fulcrum) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ipcop and gateway Message-ID: Hi- I just set up ipcop with "green + orange + red" interfaces - basically 3 nic - one for lan - one for dmz and one to goto the internet via my cable modem. I also have a Dlink gateway... Is there any advantage to having the gateway inbetween the LAN and the ipcop machine (on the "green" network)? WAN->ipcop->gateway(DHCP and NAT no stateful stuff)->LAN only thing I can think of is that DHCP could be removed or disabled on the ipcop machine and run from the gateway. one less thing to be running and one less thing as far as security goes to worry about. only other thing I can think of to do with the gateway is use it like a hub.... IPCOP seems pretty cool - getting good use out of that 486 after all! thanks johnnyf _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From burns at runbox.com Wed Oct 15 19:12:54 2003 From: burns at runbox.com (Burns) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PGP Key Signing - Thursday, October 23rd Message-ID: <20031016001254.14392.qmail@web10507.mail.yahoo.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 If you plan to go to this gpg (pgp) keysigning, please notice: <<>> I assume this is to give time to prepare the check sheet and provide greater accuracy, but you may be disappointed if you just show up without submitting your key beforehand to http://www.biglumber.com/x/web?keyring=8747 Just thought I'd point that out. :-) Randy > There will be a PGP key-signing held on Thursday, October 23, 2003 > from 7:00pm to 7:30pm in the ACM room on the U of MN campus. > > Full details at: > > http://ry4an.org/keysigning/ > > What's a key-signing? > > A key-signing is a get-together with PGP users for the purpose of > meeting other PGP users and signing each other's keys. This helps to > extend the "web of trust" to a great degree. Also, it sometimes > serves as a forum to discuss strong cryptography and related issues. > > Required Items? > > 1. Physical attendance > 2. Positive picture ID > 3. Your key ID, key type, HEX fingerprint, and key size > 4. A pen/pencil or whatever you'd like to write with.... > 5. NO computer > > > Why should I use PGP? > > You should use PGP, if you need (or want) to protect your personal > emails from being read by individuals or entities other than your > intended recipient(s). PGP, when used correctly, can provide message > privacy, message integrity, message authentication, and to some > degree non-repudibility. > > > OK. What are some good applications of PGP? > > Protection of email traffic of a sensitive nature, such as the > coordination of response to ongoing security incidents, requests for > DNS modifications, requests for networking changes and exchange of > sensitive personal information like SSNs. At the very least, it > would be useful to have all such messages signed, so the recipients > could be sure that the notes were not forged. > > Please forward this note to anyone who may be interested in > attending. > > -- Ry4an Brase - http://ry4an.org > /~\ 'If you're not a rebel when you're 20 you've got no heart; if > \ / you're not establishment when you're 30 you've got no brain.' > X Join the ASCII ribbon campaign against HTML email > / \ > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQA/AwUBP43iqz56jqs9eLOFEQLwDwCeJclH/+nbmloKuAq2c3ZBTATr+HYAoMlu Z4oU3PAAGYE5AbKN20ctz2Fc =1VCm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From william.layer at comcast.net Wed Oct 15 20:09:12 2003 From: william.layer at comcast.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ipcop and gateway In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031015200912.2ac15199.william.layer@comcast.net> On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 18:10:19 -0500 johnny fulcrum wrote: > I also have a Dlink gateway... Is there any advantage to having the > gateway inbetween the LAN and the ipcop machine (on the "green" network)? > > WAN->ipcop->gateway(DHCP and NAT no stateful stuff)->LAN I can't see any real advantage in it. On the converse, it adds another level of configuration to deal with, when setting up NAT, VPNs etc. I'd not use it. > IPCOP seems pretty cool - getting good use out of that 486 after all! Yes.. IPcop is very cool. I've used it for a couple years, always with good results. -L _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Wed Oct 15 23:43:02 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] speaking of used techie bookstores... anyone recommend a good inventory system? In-Reply-To: <1066258318.586.31.camel@debian> References: <1066258318.586.31.camel@debian> Message-ID: <20031015234302.00006089.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> I would recommend looking at X-Cart. It's a PhP/MySQL solution, and unfortunately it's not free ($185 I think) but it should suite your needs. http://www.x-cart.com OScommerce is another free solution, though I never had any success with it... Josh On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 17:51:58 -0500 nick phillips wrote: > an kinda OT question, but these seems a good forum to post it... > > i'm in the beginning stages of starting up my own used bookstore that > would (at least initially) sell solely online through existing retail > channels like amazon, half.com, abe.com, and so on. i've spent about > five years dealing with used books one way or another, and i've > encountered many book database systems, most of them windows-based, and > most of them fairly lacking in areas i would deem crucial to operating a > decent scalable bookstore inventory system (i.e. lacking flexibile > customization options, lacking a decent relational database system, and > lacking flexible export options that would allow you to format your > database to upload to more than one website, each of which accepts > fairly different file formats from UIEE, tab-delimited, etc.). > > anyhow, i'm looking around for an ideal database system that allows > flexibility for these options. i'd ideally like the system to run on > linux, mainly for expandability -- i'd prefer to avoid incurring extra > user fees each time i add a computer, and i'd prefer to avoid being > forced into upgrading my OS for windows updates -- not to mention the > other obvious benefits of using linux for business systems. i'd also > prefer to use an open source database, also for keeping operating costs > down. i'm not very knowledgeable on databases, and i've been doing some > research into MySQL and PostgreSQL. as far as i can tell, both of these > would provide a pretty robust DB system that could allow me to catalogue > books in whatever format i need, and could eventually also power a > e-commerce website should the need arise (which would be ideal, since i > could have realtime interaction between cataloguing books, accepting > online orders, and the central DB). > > however (and please correct me if i'm wrong), as i understand it, i > would need to first build my database in MySQL or PostgreSQL, then build > an application (in PHP or Perl or similar) to allow me to interact with > this DB? i'm not a DB programmer, so i imagine i'd have to hire someone > to build this for me -- can someone on this list give me a vague > estimate the cost of such a project? or does such a thing as a prebuilt > MySQL inventory system exist for linux? thinking ahead to opening a > retail location, are there any prebuilt Point-Of-Sale systems for linux? > i've done some googling, and found some old links to what look like > abandoned POS-on-linux projects. i'd really prefer to avoid windows for > this... can anyone offer me any advice? > > thanks, and please correct any of my misunderstandings. i'm fairly new > to DB software, but i know there has to be something out there better > than the Piece-of-Sh*t systems i've had to use in the past.. > > thanks in advance, > Nick > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Wed Oct 15 23:45:47 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Used Techie Bookstore In-Reply-To: <20031015174919.GA7439@mail.el-swifto.com> References: <20031015122750.00003b7e.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> <20031015174919.GA7439@mail.el-swifto.com> Message-ID: <20031015234547.00006f98.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:49:19 -0500 "John J. Trammell" wrote: > On Wed, Oct 15, 2003 at 12:27:50PM -0500, Josh Trutwin wrote: > > I'm looking for a good used book store that has lots of tech books and > > is fairly close to DT Minneapolis. In particular I'm looking for > > Photoshop and Oracle books, but I'd also like to see lots of Linux > > related titles. > > I've had good luck at the used bookstores in the Dinkytown area. > Parking is a pain but it's worth it otherwise. Thanks, I'll give that a try! Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Thu Oct 16 09:27:01 2003 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Perens interview on LinuxDevices about Cisco GPL issues Message-ID: <20031016142701.GA6272@mail.el-swifto.com> An informative response to the Forbes article: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS7719522768.html -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Thu Oct 16 11:35:00 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Note about "ipcop"... Message-ID: <3F8EC8B4.3090104@comcast.net> I'm on the "digest" version, and I noticed someone talking about IPCOP as a Linux firewall. Just wanted to let you all know that IPCOP is a "rip-off" of Smoothwall-GPL. http://www.smoothwall.org/ Smoothwall actually had to file legal motions against IPCOP for removing copyright notes from the source code. I'm running Smoothwall 1.0 right now, as soon as Smoothwall 2.0 comes out of beta I'll be switching over to that. I've been running Smoothwall for almost 2 years now and have NEVER had an intrusion into my LAN. I also know an ex-coworker who set up Smoothwall Corporate for a local company, including the VPN capabilities. There is a link to Smoothwall on my personal web site: http://auditodd.home.comcast.net -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Thu Oct 16 11:59:30 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Note about "ipcop"... In-Reply-To: <3F8EC8B4.3090104@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Oct 2003, Todd Young wrote: > There is a link to Smoothwall on my personal web site: > http://auditodd.home.comcast.net why not just say: here is a link to smoothwall: http://www.smoothwall.org/ quite a few chars less to type and less bandwidth wasted Munir Nassar RedConcepts.NET http://redconcepts.net/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Thu Oct 16 12:25:57 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Note about "ipcop"... In-Reply-To: <3F8EC8B4.3090104@comcast.net> References: <3F8EC8B4.3090104@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20031016172557.GB23508@techmonkeys.org> Search google some more, IPCOP was spawned due to the smoothwall author putting backdoors in the software. They never made any claims to be anything other than a fork of smoothwall. The beauty of open source/GPL is that you can fork it and it _isn't_ a rip off, it's a fork. On Thu, Oct 16, 2003 at 11:35:00AM -0500, Todd Young wrote: > I'm on the "digest" version, and I noticed someone talking about IPCOP > as a Linux firewall. > [snip enraged misinformed statements] -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dante at argle.org Wed Oct 15 21:32:25 2003 From: dante at argle.org (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] speaking of used techie bookstores... anyone recommend a good inventory system? In-Reply-To: <1066258318.586.31.camel@debian> References: <1066258318.586.31.camel@debian> Message-ID: <3F8E0339.3030003@argle.org> I would personally recommend scanning freshmeat.net and sourceforge.net for any interesting applications. Especially in the PHP section of sourceforge. It is absolutely _amazing_ how many specialized applications are out there. -- Daniel Taylor _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From william.layer at comcast.net Thu Oct 16 12:05:04 2003 From: william.layer at comcast.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Note about "ipcop"... In-Reply-To: <3F8EC8B4.3090104@comcast.net> References: <3F8EC8B4.3090104@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20031016120504.659f7f2c.william.layer@comcast.net> On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:35:00 -0500 Todd Young wrote: > Smoothwall actually had to file legal motions against IPCOP for removing > copyright notes from the source code. That's quite an assertion, can you back it up with some links on the story? You said actions were filed, but were any judgements actually handed down? -L _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From JAustad at temgweb.com Thu Oct 16 13:27:27 2003 From: JAustad at temgweb.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Note about "ipcop"... Message-ID: <288FAF5565A1A74EA5E35C39E7EE1D420A1BDC77@mail.temgweb.com> I'm too lazy to look for a link right now, but the guy who runs the Smoothwall project is a complete prick. The only reason they have a free version is because he realizes he has to abide by the GPL. Somewhere out there, people have posted email and IRC logs of conversations with the guy, he's a tool. Awhile back, I got into a fight with him because I was going to add SCSI support to their "free" version, something that you only get when you buy their corporate version. Needless to say, he sucks. I found IPCop soon after and switched, and I didn't have to do anything really special to get it to work on my scsi only box. > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Layer [mailto:william.layer@comcast.net] > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 12:05 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Note about "ipcop"... > > > On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:35:00 -0500 > Todd Young wrote: > > > Smoothwall actually had to file legal motions against IPCOP > for removing > > copyright notes from the source code. > > That's quite an assertion, can you back it up with some links > on the story? You said actions were filed, but were any > judgements actually handed down? > > -L > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Ryan at IntegraOnline.Com Thu Oct 16 16:12:41 2003 From: Ryan at IntegraOnline.Com (Ryan Oertel) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Xinerama blanking screens In-Reply-To: <1066170716.4307.4.camel@3po> References: <1066009961.3311.5.camel@sd3.mailbank.com> <1066170716.4307.4.camel@3po> Message-ID: <1066338761.7220.1.camel@sd3.mailbank.com> I put it in both sections and it seemed to do the trick! Thank you very much. On Tue, 2003-10-14 at 17:31, Mike Hicks wrote: > On Sun, 2003-10-12 at 20:52, Ryan Oertel wrote: > > I'm attempting to get dual heads working again, using RH9 with > > xinerama. When I move my mouse from the primary screen off the right > > edge, the primary screen goes blank. If I'm creative and careful, I can > > drag windows from the primary screen onto the second screen, but I can > > never get the first screen back. I can work on both screens as long as > > the mouse pointer does not leave the primary screen. > > Well, with anything related to the mouse cursor, a good thing to try is > setting the video driver to use a software cursor rather than a hardware > cursor. The software cursor doesn't refresh as nicely, but it tends to > be more reliable. > > In your "Device" section, you'd put a line like > > Option "SWcursor" "on" > > Though I don't know if that goes in just one or both of the sections for > your system.. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031016/159865ef/attachment.pgp From zibby+tclug at ringworld.org Thu Oct 16 16:02:23 2003 From: zibby+tclug at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] E-mail user self service Message-ID: I'm wondering if anybody knows of a good software package for letting normal users do things like setup of a vacation auto response, change their password, and forward mail via a webpage. CGIpaf looks promising (http://staf.patat.org/cgipaf/) but there must be something else out there that didn't turn up in my freshmeat searches. Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://www.ringworld.org A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Thu Oct 16 16:09:46 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] E-mail user self service In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1066338585.587.36.camel@unixws1> We've been experimenting with openwebmail (openwebmail.org) here as a replacement to our current system. Besides doing the (obvious) web-based e-mail stuff, you can easily setup vacation, calendaring/reminders, and change passwords. It looks pretty solid from here. And it's a port. And it's super-duper-easy to install (from ports anyways, haven't built from the distribution they have for download yet). All perl too. Yum. On Thu, 2003-10-16 at 16:02, Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) wrote: > I'm wondering if anybody knows of a good software package for letting > normal users do things like setup of a vacation auto response, change > their password, and forward mail via a webpage. > > CGIpaf looks promising (http://staf.patat.org/cgipaf/) but there must be > something else out there that didn't turn up in my freshmeat searches. > > Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://www.ringworld.org > A password is like your underwear; Change it > frequently, don't share it with others, and > don't ask to borrow someone else's. > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Thu Oct 16 22:14:30 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Note about Smoothwall vs. IPCOP Message-ID: <3F8F5E96.4090409@comcast.net> I haven't received the digest yet, but apparently there is some concern about Smoothwall having a "backdoor" built into it. This is utter nonsense, most likely propagated by the people at IPCOP to justify their stolen version of Smoothwall's GPL'd software. The ONLY thing that happens when configuring a Smoothwall is that it's first contact with the Internet after initial installation the software sends a brief message back to Smoothwall. I quote from their FAQ document: ================================= The InvBot reports back the following NONPERSONAL data and we don't actually have to tell anyone we're reporting back at all - but in the full edition the docs clearly state that: "agreeing to use SmoothWall is a two way relationship. You as a company/individual will comply with the terms of the GNU General Public License and also respect the rights of all developers whose code lies within the project boundries. SmoothWall requires you to automatically register the following information so that we can gauge our audience and also continue to develop SmoothWall for the future. SmoothWall will report back automatically the following data, no data concerning you or your civil liberties is infringed upon and no data collected will be used than for the purpose of continued development of this project." Information collated: -SmoothWall version installed -CPU Vender name -CPU model name -CPU Megahertz -RAM -HDD size -connection type -First 2 octets of IP address (for geographical location) This is ESSENTIAL information for us to guage usage figures that are TOTALLY correct and also for us to see where we need to push effort. It also gives us control over where we need to put FTP servers, support effort and also where to push SmoothWall with user groups, local IT press and resources on the ground. ======================================== Within another document I saved from SmoothWall, specifically about IPCOP, they note that the "developers" of IPCOP were junior, tertiary members on the very fringe of the SmoothWall team (no core developers or major contributors of the project) and some of there were even ejected from the community team. To be quite blunt, IPCOP stole SmoothWall's work and put their own name on it. I have PDFs of everything I have written here, if anyone wants a copy, I would be more than happy to send it to you. I find IPCOP's actions distasteful at a minimum, downright criminal at the max. -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rudie at rudie.net Thu Oct 16 22:14:57 2003 From: rudie at rudie.net (Kevin Hinze) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Note about Smoothwall vs. IPCOP In-Reply-To: <3F8F5E96.4090409@comcast.net> References: <3F8F5E96.4090409@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20031016221457.639eb686.rudie@rudie.net> On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:14:30 -0500 Todd Young wrote: > I haven't received the digest yet, but apparently there is some > concern about Smoothwall having a "backdoor" built into it. This is > utter nonsense, most likely propagated by the people at IPCOP to > justify their stolen version of Smoothwall's GPL'd software. Smoothwall licensed their distro as GPL. IPCOP used their codebase, also releasing under GPL. This is perfectly legit, conforming as the GPL as it is written. I see nothing wrong with this, nothing at all. > To be quite blunt, IPCOP stole SmoothWall's work and put their own > name on it. No-one stole Smoothwall's work. It was a fork of their GPL project, released legitimately also under the GPL. I strongly urge you to read the GPL someday. I think that would clear things up. But I gotta hand it to you, you really know how to start a flamewar! -- -Kevin Hinze rudie@rudie.net | rudie@sihope.com hinz0047@tc.umn.edu | http://rudie.net Democracy: two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for lunch Liberty: a well armed sheep expressing his rights. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jimstreit at northlans.com Thu Oct 16 22:44:13 2003 From: jimstreit at northlans.com (Jim Streit) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Note about Smoothwall vs. IPCOP In-Reply-To: <3F8F5E96.4090409@comcast.net> References: <3F8F5E96.4090409@comcast.net> Message-ID: <34053.192.168.70.43.1066362253.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> I personally manage 10 SmoothWall boxes, both at home and work environments, and know of 5 other friends who use it also. Firewall, VPN's, proxies, intrusion detection, web managment interface, regular updates. A great package to work with, manage, very stable, and great performance on older equipment. Who cares if the guy's who wrote it are "prick's" in some peoples eyes, I think its a good product. Side note: If you where a new person to this list, you may think that there are a few "prick's" here as well. Its all about perception. > I haven't received the digest yet, but apparently there is some concern > about Smoothwall having a "backdoor" built into it. This is utter > nonsense, most likely propagated by the people at IPCOP to justify their > stolen version of Smoothwall's GPL'd software. > > The ONLY thing that happens when configuring a Smoothwall is that it's > first contact with the Internet after initial installation the software > sends a brief message back to Smoothwall. I quote from their FAQ > document: ================================= > The InvBot reports back the following NONPERSONAL data and we don't > actually have to tell anyone we're reporting back at all - but in the > full edition the docs clearly state that: > "agreeing to use SmoothWall is a two way relationship. You as a > company/individual will comply with the terms of the GNU General Public > License and also respect the rights of all developers whose code lies > within the project boundries. SmoothWall requires you to automatically > register the following information so that we can gauge our audience and > also continue to develop SmoothWall for the future. SmoothWall will > report back automatically the following data, no data concerning you or > your civil liberties is infringed upon and no data collected will be > used than for the purpose of continued development of this project." > Information collated: > -SmoothWall version installed > -CPU Vender name > -CPU model name > -CPU Megahertz > -RAM > -HDD size > -connection type > -First 2 octets of IP address (for geographical location) > This is ESSENTIAL information for us to guage usage figures that are > TOTALLY correct and also for us to see where we need to push effort. It > also gives us control over where we need to put FTP servers, support > effort and also where to push SmoothWall with user groups, local IT > press and resources on the ground. > ======================================== > Within another document I saved from SmoothWall, specifically about > IPCOP, they note that the "developers" of IPCOP were junior, tertiary > members on the very fringe of the SmoothWall team (no core developers or > major contributors of the project) and some of there were even ejected > from the community team. > > To be quite blunt, IPCOP stole SmoothWall's work and put their own name > on it. > > I have PDFs of everything I have written here, if anyone wants a copy, I > would be more than happy to send it to you. I find IPCOP's actions > distasteful at a minimum, downright criminal at the max. > -- > Todd Young > 7079 Dawn Ave. E. > Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rware at interplastic.com Thu Oct 16 23:26:19 2003 From: rware at interplastic.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Note about Smoothwall vs. IPCOP Message-ID: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B233@ipserver2.interplastic.com> Yup this topic is going to get some running for the gas can as if djb himself was involved. -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Hinze To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Sent: 10/16/03 10:14 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Note about Smoothwall vs. IPCOP On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:14:30 -0500 Todd Young wrote: > I haven't received the digest yet, but apparently there is some > concern about Smoothwall having a "backdoor" built into it. This is > utter nonsense, most likely propagated by the people at IPCOP to > justify their stolen version of Smoothwall's GPL'd software. Smoothwall licensed their distro as GPL. IPCOP used their codebase, also releasing under GPL. This is perfectly legit, conforming as the GPL as it is written. I see nothing wrong with this, nothing at all. > To be quite blunt, IPCOP stole SmoothWall's work and put their own > name on it. No-one stole Smoothwall's work. It was a fork of their GPL project, released legitimately also under the GPL. I strongly urge you to read the GPL someday. I think that would clear things up. But I gotta hand it to you, you really know how to start a flamewar! _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jack at jacku.com Thu Oct 16 23:39:18 2003 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Note about Smoothwall vs. IPCOP In-Reply-To: <3F8F5E96.4090409@comcast.net> References: <3F8F5E96.4090409@comcast.net> Message-ID: <200310162339.18536.jack@jacku.com> On Thursday 16 October 2003 10:14 pm, Todd Young wrote: > I haven't received the digest yet, but apparently there is some concern > about Smoothwall having a "backdoor" built into it. This is utter > nonsense, most likely propagated by the people at IPCOP to justify their > stolen version of Smoothwall's GPL'd software. FWIW I think people who would like to get an idea of what prompted the fork of Smoothwall GPL to IPCOP should just search: "smoothwall ipcop reasons" on google groups and you'll see why the IPCOP project was started and why many switched. It has less to do with code and more to do with personalities. Others have explained why the GPL allows the fork. You have a right to consider it distasteful but don't hope its illegal unless you want the GPL to be unenforceable. -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Thu Oct 16 23:47:02 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Note about Smoothwall vs. IPCOP In-Reply-To: <20031016221457.639eb686.rudie@rudie.net> References: <3F8F5E96.4090409@comcast.net> <20031016221457.639eb686.rudie@rudie.net> Message-ID: <3F8F7446.4090005@comcast.net> IT is a known fact that the "developers" of IPCOP simply changed the graphics of Smoothwall and re-released the OLD SmoothWall 0.9.9 binaries with the names of the authors, and project team members removed. Since that point IPCOP MAY have made some changes to the source code, but as far as I know, they STILL have NOT acknowledged the rightful authors of the original source code. I KNOW what the GPL means, and I agree with the GPL. What I don't agree with is using someone else's code base and stripping out their names and copyright information. Kevin Hinze wrote: > On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:14:30 -0500 > Todd Young wrote: > > >>I haven't received the digest yet, but apparently there is some >>concern about Smoothwall having a "backdoor" built into it. This is >>utter nonsense, most likely propagated by the people at IPCOP to >>justify their stolen version of Smoothwall's GPL'd software. > > > Smoothwall licensed their distro as GPL. IPCOP used their codebase, also > releasing under GPL. This is perfectly legit, conforming as the GPL as > it is written. I see nothing wrong with this, nothing at all. > > >>To be quite blunt, IPCOP stole SmoothWall's work and put their own >>name on it. > > > No-one stole Smoothwall's work. It was a fork of their GPL project, > released legitimately also under the GPL. > I strongly urge you to read the GPL someday. I think that would clear > things up. But I gotta hand it to you, you really know how to start a > flamewar! > > > > -- > -Kevin Hinze > > rudie@rudie.net | rudie@sihope.com > hinz0047@tc.umn.edu | http://rudie.net > > Democracy: two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for lunch > Liberty: a well armed sheep expressing his rights. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Thu Oct 16 23:54:04 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Note about Smoothwall vs. IPCOP In-Reply-To: <200310162339.18536.jack@jacku.com> References: <3F8F5E96.4090409@comcast.net> <200310162339.18536.jack@jacku.com> Message-ID: <3F8F75EC.9050100@comcast.net> Under the GPL it IS illegal if original copyright and author's names are stripped from the source code, which is EXACTLY what IPCop did with v0.9.9 of the SmoothWall code. IPCop breached the GPL. Jack Ungerleider wrote: > Others have explained why the GPL allows the fork. You have a right to > consider it distasteful but don't hope its illegal unless you want the GPL to > be unenforceable. > -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Fri Oct 17 00:04:12 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Link to PDF of Smoothwall's claims against IPCop Message-ID: <3F8F784C.9010405@comcast.net> I've put the PDF I have of the original article from Smoothwall.org site http://auditodd.home.comcast.net/Opensource/smoothwall_vs_ipcop.PDF Makes for some interesting reading. -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rudie at rudie.net Thu Oct 16 23:44:23 2003 From: rudie at rudie.net (Kevin Hinze) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Note about Smoothwall vs. IPCOP In-Reply-To: <3F8F7446.4090005@comcast.net> References: <3F8F5E96.4090409@comcast.net> <20031016221457.639eb686.rudie@rudie.net> <3F8F7446.4090005@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20031016234423.4ff6909b.rudie@rudie.net> On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:47:02 -0500 Todd Young wrote: > IT is a known fact that the "developers" of IPCOP simply changed the > graphics of Smoothwall and re-released the OLD SmoothWall 0.9.9 > binaries with the names of the authors, and project team members > removed. Since that point IPCOP MAY have made some changes to the > source code, but as far as I know, they STILL have NOT acknowledged > the rightful authors of the original source code. > > I KNOW what the GPL means, and I agree with the GPL. What I don't > agree with is using someone else's code base and stripping out their > names and copyright information. Taken from the info page on my IPCOP box: Smoothwall IPCop is based on the Smoothwall GPL version, v0.9.9. We are grateful to them for both inspiring this product and giving us the codebase to work with. Smoothwall was developed by: Founder and Project Manager - Richard Morrell (richard@smoothwall.org) Development Team Leader and Author - Lawrence Manning (lawrence@smoothwall.org) Dan Goscomb - Architecture team leader, Core Developer & Perl Guru (dang@smoothwall.org) Paul Tansom - Worldwide Community Liason (paul@smoothwall.org) William Anderson - Worldwide Online Team Manager & Webmanager (neuro@smoothwall.org) Rebecca Ward - Worldwide Online Support Manager (becca@smoothwall.org) Bill Ward - US Support & Evangelist (bill@smoothwall.org) Chris Ross - Chief Wizard (chris@smoothwall.org) Mark Wormgoor - ISDN Lead Developer (mark@wormgoor.com) Eric Johansson - US Team Leader (esj@harvee.billerica.ma.us) Dan Cuthbert - Lead Security Manager (security@smoothwall.org) Pierre-Yves Paulus - Belgian Team Leader and PPPoE guru (pauluspy@easynet.be) John Payne - DNS & Tech Contibutor (john@sackheads.org) Adam Wilkinson - VPN Assistance (aaw10@hslmc.cam.ac.uk) Jez Tucker - Testing (jez@rib-it.org) Pete Guyan - Tech testing & Input (pete@snowplains.org) Nigel Fenton - Development and Testing (nigel.fenton@btinternet.com) Bob Dunlop - The Guru's Guru & Code Magician (rjd@xyzzy.clara.co.uk) If you feel that IPCOP somehow did anything illegal by forking a GPL project, I'd certainly like proof. This seems to be proof contrary. And unless you're an IP lawyer, I'd recommend reconsidering charging anyone of code theft. Richard Morrel sure can rant and rave, but that doesn't mean what he says has absolute truth. -- -Kevin Hinze rudie@rudie.net | rudie@sihope.com hinz0047@tc.umn.edu | http://rudie.net Democracy: two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for lunch Liberty: a well armed sheep expressing his rights. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Fri Oct 17 08:04:23 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Note about Smoothwall vs. IPCOP In-Reply-To: <3F8F7446.4090005@comcast.net> References: <3F8F5E96.4090409@comcast.net> <20031016221457.639eb686.rudie@rudie.net> <3F8F7446.4090005@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20031017080423.48fabe74.sfertch@real-time.com> On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:47:02 -0500 Todd Young wrote: > I KNOW what the GPL means, and I agree with the GPL. What I don't > agree with is using someone else's code base and stripping out their > names and copyright information. > [sarcasm]Isn't that how Mandrake got it's start from Red Hat? =P [/sarcasm] -- Shawn The difficult we do today; the impossible take a little longer. Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Fri Oct 17 08:31:46 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] My final note about Smoothwall vs. IPCop Message-ID: <3F8FEF42.6090708@comcast.net> Wow! I really opened a can of beans with my original post, "grenaded" the can would be more like it. :-) Anyway, lets seperate fact from opinion. FACT: 1) Contrary to rumor, there is no "backdoor" to Smoothwall. 2) In March of 2002 Richard Morrell of Smoothwall accused IPCop of violating the GPL with respect to Smoothwall's v0.9.9 distro. MY OPINION: I believe Richard Morrell. He would not have gone public with his accusation if he did not believe it. Since that time, IPCop may have mended their ways, I really don't know. BUT, I view their original actions as distasteful and therefore I will NOT support their distribution, nor will I recommend it to anyone I know. ANOTHER THOUGHT: Support contracts, for open source applications and operating systems, is what will drive open source into the business environment. This can be shown to be true by RedHat and SUSE's success. Both offer their product for free, but also provide support through contracts. Therefore I submit that if you place yourself in the role of a mid-level IT support person at a small to mid-size company and you try to implement an open source appliction or OS, the first question from the CTO and/or CIO will be, "Who will support this product when you leave the company?" Telling the CTO or CIO that they have to subscribe to a user group to get their questions answered will NOT cut it. On the other hand, telling them that the software provider you have chosen will provide support for a yearly fee will ease their minds. Therefore, I submit that SmoothWall.co.uk is a better choice for the business environment. IPCop is fine for "at home" use, if you so prefer, but to be quite honest, I wouldn't try to sell it to the upper management of a business. This is my last post on the subject, unless someone directs a question/comment directly at me. Let's face it folks. There are as many opinions about different distros of Linux as there are people on this list, and banging our fists on the table proclaiming one over the other will get us nowhere. Let's all just agree to disagree. -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bbaptist at iexposure.com Fri Oct 17 09:00:04 2003 From: bbaptist at iexposure.com (Bret Baptist) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] My final note about Smoothwall vs. IPCop In-Reply-To: <3F8FEF42.6090708@comcast.net> References: <3F8FEF42.6090708@comcast.net> Message-ID: <200310170900.04537.bbaptist@iexposure.com> Sorry for the top post... Read below for the true story of Smoothwall from one of the developers. If you still don't believe there was a backdoor in Smoothwall you can continue to delude yourself. Bret. ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: RE: [users] VPN / Dynamic IP question Date: Monday 04 February 2002 2:47 pm From: Ward William E DLDN To: "'Bret Baptist '" Bret, I parted ways with SmoothWall back in November; I was unsatisfied with the resolution of a number of security issues (which have still not been corrected), nor with the overall attitude of certain members of the staff; about six weeks later, my wife was ejected from the SmoothWall team when she made a comment that Richard Morrel took offense with (she mentioned that he had made promises to her that he hadn't kept, in a private email to a third party, which he intercepted). At current, I don't recommend to anyone that the utilize SmoothWall; regardless of what it may SEEM, the reason is that during the month of December, one of the then current (and to my understanding, once more current) members of the team created a Trojan backdoor into the appliance, and disseminated it to the list. Some weeks later, in true 1984 language, he was welcomed back with open arms, with a note saying that it had been a hacker disguised as him. However, correspondance from December pinpointed the source of the Trojan as coming from the specific individual's machine; so, I've heard two mutually exclusive things on the subject (and since my wife was kicked out, I've heard nothing more). However, since this was the SECURITY manager for SmoothWall, my trust in the security of the system as a whole is non-existant now; if he was a good enough for the job, his own machine could not have been hacked. If his machine was hacked, then how good is the vetting of the security aspects of the software? Strangely, though all this, up until the incident with my wife, I was still a fan of Richard's, though his treatment of my wife, with his berating her, calling HER a liar (I've seen proof on which is true and which isn't on THOSE matters), his intercepting private email to her, his constant badgering and threats, just turn me off. I stopped responding to any SmoothWall Emails when I left the team; I stopped using SmoothWall when I lost faith and trust in the team members. Right now, I wouldn't trust SmoothWall for any important position; I would look elsewhere in preference to using it with the current state of security in the product. Bill Ward -----Original Message----- From: Bret Baptist To: Ward William E DLDN Sent: 2/4/02 10:35 AM Subject: Re: [users] VPN / Dynamic IP question Been reading the mailing list. Glad to see that you decided to go with a X509 solution for the VPN access stuff. I can tell you using that makes me a lot more interested in Server Edition. Thank you for your efforts. Bret. On Friday 17 October 2003 8:31 am, Todd Young wrote: > Wow! I really opened a can of beans with my original post, "grenaded" > the can would be more like it. :-) > > Anyway, lets seperate fact from opinion. > > FACT: > 1) Contrary to rumor, there is no "backdoor" to Smoothwall. > 2) In March of 2002 Richard Morrell of Smoothwall accused IPCop of > violating the GPL with respect to Smoothwall's v0.9.9 distro. > > MY OPINION: > I believe Richard Morrell. He would not have gone public with his > accusation if he did not believe it. Since that time, IPCop may have > mended their ways, I really don't know. BUT, I view their original > actions as distasteful and therefore I will NOT support their > distribution, nor will I recommend it to anyone I know. > > ANOTHER THOUGHT: > Support contracts, for open source applications and operating systems, > is what will drive open source into the business environment. This can > be shown to be true by RedHat and SUSE's success. Both offer their > product for free, but also provide support through contracts. Therefore > I submit that if you place yourself in the role of a mid-level IT > support person at a small to mid-size company and you try to implement > an open source appliction or OS, the first question from the CTO and/or > CIO will be, "Who will support this product when you leave the company?" > Telling the CTO or CIO that they have to subscribe to a user group to > get their questions answered will NOT cut it. On the other hand, telling > them that the software provider you have chosen will provide support for > a yearly fee will ease their minds. Therefore, I submit that > SmoothWall.co.uk is a better choice for the business environment. IPCop > is fine for "at home" use, if you so prefer, but to be quite honest, I > wouldn't try to sell it to the upper management of a business. > > This is my last post on the subject, unless someone directs a > question/comment directly at me. Let's face it folks. There are as many > opinions about different distros of Linux as there are people on this > list, and banging our fists on the table proclaiming one over the other > will get us nowhere. Let's all just agree to disagree. -- Bret Baptist Systems and Technical Support Specialist bbaptist@iexposure.com Internet Exposure, Inc. http://www.iexposure.com (612)676-1946 x17 Web Development-Web Marketing-ISP Services ------------------------------------------ Today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hoff0438 at umn.edu Fri Oct 17 11:21:56 2003 From: hoff0438 at umn.edu (John Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:15 2005 Subject: Come on now... (was [TCLUG] My final note about Smoothwall vs. IPCop) In-Reply-To: <200310170900.04537.bbaptist@iexposure.com> Message-ID: <000001c394ca$ca07a870$d4b15ea0@donhowe0c319ac> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Bret Baptist > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 9:00 > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] My final note about Smoothwall vs. IPCop > > Read below for the true story of Smoothwall from one of the > developers. If > you still don't believe there was a backdoor in Smoothwall > you can continue > to delude yourself. Discuss this stuff all you (meaning everyone) want, but can everyone at least refrain from insulting eachother? Telling someone they're deluding themselves is a little less than civil, in my opinion. If everyone stuck to facts (or what they believed were facts) a flame-war never starts, but remains an intelligent discussion. Once you start making radical claims and not backing them, (unless you state it is your opinion) or insulting others, the whole discussion degrades to bickering. Just a friendly reminder to be nice (or at least not be mean) to others. - -John -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (MingW32) iD8DBQE/kBckbYHzwrJUIPQRAp11AJ0d30CIHNx+6kjLRlkn3QxzAh3svQCgqll+ iRF93uBcYtqFUGHuc3aEtsc= =CB5n -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bbaptist at iexposure.com Fri Oct 17 11:31:04 2003 From: bbaptist at iexposure.com (Bret Baptist) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:15 2005 Subject: Come on now... (was [TCLUG] My final note about Smoothwall vs. IPCop) In-Reply-To: <000001c394ca$ca07a870$d4b15ea0@donhowe0c319ac> References: <000001c394ca$ca07a870$d4b15ea0@donhowe0c319ac> Message-ID: <200310171131.04760.bbaptist@iexposure.com> On Friday 17 October 2003 11:21 am, John Hoffoss wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org > > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Bret Baptist > > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 9:00 > > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] My final note about Smoothwall vs. IPCop > > > > Read below for the true story of Smoothwall from one of the > > developers. If > > you still don't believe there was a backdoor in Smoothwall > > you can continue > > to delude yourself. > > Discuss this stuff all you (meaning everyone) want, but can everyone at > least refrain from insulting eachother? Telling someone they're deluding > themselves is a little less than civil, in my opinion. If everyone stuck to > facts (or what they believed were facts) a flame-war never starts, but > remains an intelligent discussion. Once you start making radical claims and > not backing them, (unless you state it is your opinion) or insulting > others, the whole discussion degrades to bickering. > > Just a friendly reminder to be nice (or at least not be mean) to others. Sorry about that, I should not have responded to an uncivil tone with more uncivil tones. I just can't stand when people are snippy when they do not KNOW the facts. Bret. > > -John > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Bret Baptist Systems and Technical Support Specialist bbaptist@iexposure.com Internet Exposure, Inc. http://www.iexposure.com (612)676-1946 x17 Web Development-Web Marketing-ISP Services ------------------------------------------ Today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hoff0438 at umn.edu Fri Oct 17 11:34:37 2003 From: hoff0438 at umn.edu (John Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:15 2005 Subject: Come on now... (was [TCLUG] My final note about Smoothwall vs. IPCop) In-Reply-To: <200310171131.04760.bbaptist@iexposure.com> Message-ID: <000101c394cc$8ecd3c00$d4b15ea0@donhowe0c319ac> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Bret Baptist > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 11:31 > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: Come on now... (was [TCLUG] My final note about > Smoothwall vs. IPCop) > > > On Friday 17 October 2003 11:21 am, John Hoffoss wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org > > > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Bret Baptist > > > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 9:00 > > > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] My final note about Smoothwall vs. IPCop > > > > > > Read below for the true story of Smoothwall from one of the > > > developers. If you still don't believe there was a backdoor in > > > Smoothwall you can continue > > > to delude yourself. > > > > Discuss this stuff all you (meaning everyone) want, but can > everyone > > at least refrain from insulting eachother? Telling someone they're > > deluding themselves is a little less than civil, in my opinion. If > > everyone stuck to facts (or what they believed were facts) > a flame-war > > never starts, but remains an intelligent discussion. Once you start > > making radical claims and not backing them, (unless you state it is > > your opinion) or insulting others, the whole discussion degrades to > > bickering. > > > > Just a friendly reminder to be nice (or at least not be mean) to > > others. > > Sorry about that, I should not have responded to an uncivil > tone with more > uncivil tones. I just can't stand when people are snippy > when they do not > KNOW the facts. > > Bret. Understandable, and like I said, it's not directed at you, but everyone. Can't we all just get along? :) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (MingW32) iD8DBQE/kBodbYHzwrJUIPQRAqDTAJsGet3mu2rVbBUFC2BKJzYL6pGkeQCeOEIr 9hyNakZJcVSzEeL0qV2a7DE= =w+vA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Fri Oct 17 12:34:28 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] My final note about Smoothwall vs. IPCop In-Reply-To: <3F8FEF42.6090708@comcast.net> References: <3F8FEF42.6090708@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20031017173428.GD23508@techmonkeys.org> On Fri, Oct 17, 2003 at 08:31:46AM -0500, Todd Young wrote: > FACT: > 1) Contrary to rumor, there is no "backdoor" to Smoothwall. That's correct, I did not say there current is, I said there was. > 2) In March of 2002 Richard Morrell of Smoothwall accused IPCop of > violating the GPL with respect to Smoothwall's v0.9.9 distro. I'm hereby accusing you of being a mindless troll. It must be true, because I said so. The world is also flat. > MY OPINION: > I believe Richard Morrell. He would not have gone public with his > accusation if he did not believe it. Since that time, IPCop may have > mended their ways, I really don't know. BUT, I view their original > actions as distasteful and therefore I will NOT support their > distribution, nor will I recommend it to anyone I know. My god, I find it so distasteful that the Smoothwall people would take GPL products (such as the linux kernel, squid, apache, *) and package it into a product and call it their own! They got it for *FREE*, that means they have to give it back to the community for *FREE*. It's not fair to get it for free, then say 'nope, even though we got it for free, it's ours NOW, and you can't do anything with it'. The IPCop people felt they could improve on a *FREE* product, this conflicted with Smoothwall's business interests (to release a 'free' version that's stripped down, and charge for the good things) so they chose to release their own version that they were free to hack away on and add things to without the artificial restraints of a persons business interests. This is how the GPL is meant to work, don't like it? Stop using it. > ANOTHER THOUGHT: > Support contracts, for open source applications and operating systems, > is what will drive open source into the business environment. This can > be shown to be true by RedHat and SUSE's success. The difference is that they both contribute back to the community, and RedHat's free version is exactly the same as the version they sell. The version they sell simply comes with a support contract. > Let's all just agree to disagree. Having problems defending your logic errors? You started this thread. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jima at beer.tclug.org Fri Oct 17 14:49:54 2003 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Beer Meeting CANCELLED Message-ID: Due to a general lack of interest (and the organizers' busy schedules), we're going to have to cancel the beer meeting this week. I'll announce when the next one is when the date is closer. No beer. Jima _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jima at beer.tclug.org Fri Oct 17 14:49:54 2003 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] Beer Meeting CANCELLED Message-ID: Due to a general lack of interest (and the organizers' busy schedules), we're going to have to cancel the beer meeting this week. I'll announce when the next one is when the date is closer. No beer. Jima _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Announcements - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-announce mailing list tclug-announce@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com Fri Oct 17 15:05:15 2003 From: Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com (Lansing, Dan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Beer Meeting CANCELLED Message-ID: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D374C@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> Jeez why do you just cancel Christmas?.....some people can be so cruel Dan Lansing -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Jima Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 2:50 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org; tclug-announce@mn-linux.org Subject: [TCLUG] Beer Meeting CANCELLED Due to a general lack of interest (and the organizers' busy schedules), we're going to have to cancel the beer meeting this week. I'll announce when the next one is when the date is closer. No beer. Jima _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mike at JentgeS.NeT Fri Oct 17 03:27:38 2003 From: mike at JentgeS.NeT (Michael Jentges) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Note about Smoothwall vs. IPCOP In-Reply-To: <20031016234423.4ff6909b.rudie@rudie.net> References: <3F8F5E96.4090409@comcast.net> <20031016221457.639eb686.rudie@rudie.net> <3F8F7446.4090005@comcast.net> <20031016234423.4ff6909b.rudie@rudie.net> Message-ID: <1498.199.199.150.6.1066379258.squirrel@webmail.jentges.net> Any bets the whole fiasco started because a user sent either a question or a thanks to one of those addresses? :) -mj : > >> IT is a known fact that the "developers" of IPCOP simply changed the >> graphics of Smoothwall and re-released the OLD SmoothWall 0.9.9 >> binaries with the names of the authors, and project team members >> removed. Since that point IPCOP MAY have made some changes to the >> source code, but as far as I know, they STILL have NOT acknowledged >> the rightful authors of the original source code. >> >> I KNOW what the GPL means, and I agree with the GPL. What I don't >> agree with is using someone else's code base and stripping out their >> names and copyright information. > > Taken from the info page on my IPCOP box: > > Smoothwall > IPCop is based on the Smoothwall GPL version, v0.9.9. We are grateful to > them for both inspiring this product and giving us the codebase to work > with. Smoothwall was developed by: > > Founder and Project Manager - Richard Morrell (richard@smoothwall.org) > Development Team Leader and Author - Lawrence Manning > (lawrence@smoothwall.org) > Dan Goscomb - Architecture team leader, Core Developer & Perl Guru > (dang@smoothwall.org) > Paul Tansom - Worldwide Community Liason (paul@smoothwall.org) > William Anderson - Worldwide Online Team Manager & Webmanager > (neuro@smoothwall.org) > Rebecca Ward - Worldwide Online Support Manager (becca@smoothwall.org) > Bill Ward - US Support & Evangelist (bill@smoothwall.org) > Chris Ross - Chief Wizard (chris@smoothwall.org) > Mark Wormgoor - ISDN Lead Developer (mark@wormgoor.com) > Eric Johansson - US Team Leader (esj@harvee.billerica.ma.us) > Dan Cuthbert - Lead Security Manager (security@smoothwall.org) > Pierre-Yves Paulus - Belgian Team Leader and PPPoE guru > (pauluspy@easynet.be) > John Payne - DNS & Tech Contibutor (john@sackheads.org) > Adam Wilkinson - VPN Assistance (aaw10@hslmc.cam.ac.uk) > Jez Tucker - Testing (jez@rib-it.org) > Pete Guyan - Tech testing & Input (pete@snowplains.org) > Nigel Fenton - Development and Testing (nigel.fenton@btinternet.com) Bob > Dunlop - The Guru's Guru & Code Magician (rjd@xyzzy.clara.co.uk) > > If you feel that IPCOP somehow did anything illegal by forking a GPL > project, I'd certainly like proof. This seems to be proof contrary. And > unless you're an IP lawyer, I'd recommend reconsidering charging anyone > of code theft. Richard Morrel sure can rant and rave, but that doesn't > mean what he says has absolute truth. > > -- > -Kevin Hinze > > rudie@rudie.net | rudie@sihope.com > hinz0047@tc.umn.edu | http://rudie.net > > Democracy: two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for lunch > Liberty: a well armed sheep expressing his rights. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list --------------------- Jentges.NET, Inc. Voice: 763.783.3702 Cell: 763.370.1201 --------------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rudie at sihope.com Fri Oct 17 16:07:30 2003 From: rudie at sihope.com (Kevin Hinze) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Note about Smoothwall vs. IPCOP In-Reply-To: <1498.199.199.150.6.1066379258.squirrel@webmail.jentges.net> References: <3F8F5E96.4090409@comcast.net> <20031016221457.639eb686.rudie@rudie.net> <3F8F7446.4090005@comcast.net> <20031016234423.4ff6909b.rudie@rudie.net> <1498.199.199.150.6.1066379258.squirrel@webmail.jentges.net> Message-ID: <20031017160730.64d28adb.rudie@sihope.com> On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 03:27:38 -0500 (CDT) "Michael Jentges" wrote: > > Any bets the whole fiasco started because a user sent either a > question or a thanks to one of those addresses? > > > :) > > -mj I'm sure that had a lot to do with it. I used SmoothWall since like 0.9.4 or so, when I got it as a freebie disc with some Linux rag. I joined the mailing list and watched it grow. By the time 0.9.9 was out, I'd had enough. I was one of the first beta testers for IPCOP, joined their mailing list, and never really looked back. Yes, essentially they're the same thing. But, not for long as IPCOP transitions to LFS. IMHO, support is far better with IPCOP, questions get answered relatively politely and efficiently, very little anger, far better attitude, a wiki on their homepage, a friendlier IRC channel than SW, etc.. Some of the developers on that SM credits list are now the core developers for IPCOP, chiefly, Mark Wormgoor. But, enough of the flogging. It's dead, Jim. -- -Kevin Hinze rudie@rudie.net | rudie@sihope.com hinz0047@tc.umn.edu | http://rudie.net Democracy: two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for lunch Liberty: a well armed sheep expressing his rights. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From skodak at mail.cs.umn.edu Fri Oct 17 17:19:03 2003 From: skodak at mail.cs.umn.edu (Sreekumar Kodakara) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Installing linux without swap space Message-ID: Hi, I want to install linux to a flash drive. Since flash has a maximum limit on read-write cycles, I was told to install linux without a swap space. I have some questions regarding that. 1. Is it possible to install RH 6.2 without a swap space? When I tried to install RH 6.2 it dint allow me to proceed with out a swap partion. Is there a way out of that? 2. If not, is it possible to remove the swap partition after installation? 3. If its not possible with RH 6.2, does any other distribution of linux allow that? My flash disk is a 256 MB, so I have to fit in linux within this space. Thanks for your time and help. Sreekumar _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Fri Oct 17 17:45:23 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (auditodd@comcast.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] My final note about Smoothwall vs. IPCop Message-ID: <101720032245.11578.3ab4@comcast.net> Matthew, I think perhaps you should take a break and rethink how old you are. First, calling me a "mindless troll" is totally infantile. You have your opinions and I have mine, just because you don't agree with my opinions doesn't make either one of us wrong, we just have different opinions. And NO I don't believe everything I read, I spent three years as a US Army Military Policeman and I KNOW there are always two sides to every story. I NEVER stated that Smoothwall didn't acknowledge the GPL, their beef with IPCop is that the developers at IPCop removed their authorship for certain parts of the code. If I had been one of those developers, I would have been irritated too. Second, claiming that I have "logic errors" just because my logic doesn't match your logic is also very infantile. This is a forum to exchange and discuss ideas and Linux in general. Insulting people just because you don't agree with their point of view will only serve to alienate the others on the list. I insulted NO ONE on this list in any of my emails (at least that I can remember, if I did, I apologize). I have presented the facts as I understand them and my opinions. I did NOT try to impose my opinions on anyone else, if anyone felt that I was imposing my opinions, I again apologize. Grow up or shut up. Sincerely, Todd Young -- > On Fri, Oct 17, 2003 at 08:31:46AM -0500, Todd Young wrote: > > > FACT: > > 1) Contrary to rumor, there is no "backdoor" to Smoothwall. > > That's correct, I did not say there current is, I said there was. > > > 2) In March of 2002 Richard Morrell of Smoothwall accused IPCop of > > violating the GPL with respect to Smoothwall's v0.9.9 distro. > > I'm hereby accusing you of being a mindless troll. It must be true, > because I said so. The world is also flat. > > > MY OPINION: > > I believe Richard Morrell. He would not have gone public with his > > accusation if he did not believe it. Since that time, IPCop may have > > mended their ways, I really don't know. BUT, I view their original > > actions as distasteful and therefore I will NOT support their > > distribution, nor will I recommend it to anyone I know. > > My god, I find it so distasteful that the Smoothwall people would take > GPL products (such as the linux kernel, squid, apache, *) and package > it into a product and call it their own! > > They got it for *FREE*, that means they have to give it back to the > community for *FREE*. It's not fair to get it for free, then say 'nope, > even though we got it for free, it's ours NOW, and you can't do anything > with it'. > > The IPCop people felt they could improve on a *FREE* product, this conflicted > with Smoothwall's business interests (to release a 'free' version that's > stripped down, and charge for the good things) so they chose to release > their own version that they were free to hack away on and add things to > without the artificial restraints of a persons business interests. > > This is how the GPL is meant to work, don't like it? Stop using it. > > > ANOTHER THOUGHT: > > Support contracts, for open source applications and operating systems, > > is what will drive open source into the business environment. This can > > be shown to be true by RedHat and SUSE's success. > > The difference is that they both contribute back to the community, and > RedHat's free version is exactly the same as the version they sell. The > version they sell simply comes with a support contract. > > > Let's all just agree to disagree. > > Having problems defending your logic errors? You started this thread. > > -- > Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified > http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Fri Oct 17 18:31:29 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Installing linux without swap space References: Message-ID: <002801c39506$ca492700$0201a8c0@brinstar> Sreekumar Kodakara writes: > 2. If not, is it possible to remove the swap partition after > installation? More than likely, yes. > 3. If its not possible with RH 6.2, does any other distribution of > linux allow that? Yes. Linux runs fine without swap. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Fri Oct 17 18:36:03 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] My final note about Smoothwall vs. IPCop In-Reply-To: <101720032245.11578.3ab4@comcast.net> References: <101720032245.11578.3ab4@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20031017233603.GH23508@techmonkeys.org> On Fri, Oct 17, 2003 at 10:45:23PM +0000, auditodd@comcast.net wrote: > Matthew, > I think perhaps you should take a break and rethink how old you are. Thank you, I almost forgot my birthday is coming up. > First, calling me a "mindless troll" is totally infantile. You have > your opinions and I have mine, just because you don't agree with my > opinions doesn't make either one of us wrong, we just have different > opinions. You are certainly trolling and ignoring the facts. You stated 'facts', your 'facts' were corrected, and you continued to troll that IPCop is bad, IPCop is stolen, IPCop is FOO. > I NEVER stated that Smoothwall didn't acknowledge the GPL, their beef > with IPCop is that the developers at IPCop removed their authorship > for certain parts of the code. If I had been one of those developers, > I would have been irritated too. Please read earlier in the thread, the credit is definitely there *now*, it doesn't matter if it was or was not before, any issues have obviously been corrected. As for 'code', I believe Smoothwall/IPCop consists of mostly scripts and HTML. > Second, claiming that I have "logic errors" just because my logic > doesn't match your logic is also very infantile. The value in logic is that multiple people should come to the same conclusion when thinking clearly with the same data. Your logic: Smoothwall is based on GPL products, and is good. IPCop is based on GPL products, but is bad because it's based off Smoothwall (a GPL product) Please explain how this makes sense, and how any GPL can be 'stolen' when re-released as GPL, with the proper credits. > This is a forum to exchange and discuss ideas and Linux in general. > Insulting people just because you don't agree with their point of view > will only serve to alienate the others on the list. [paraphrase] "DONT USE IPCOP, IT'S STOLEN AND THEY ARE BAD PEOPLE!" [/] pfft, please. > Grow up or shut up. Very mature. > Sincerely, > Todd Young -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Fri Oct 17 20:37:21 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Installing linux without swap space In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F909951.6030901@visi.com> Try Debian Woody I installed it (but with swap) on a 200 MB disk. I remember something in the install about not using swap space. Check the Debian website for more information. Sam. Sreekumar Kodakara wrote: >Hi, > >I want to install linux to a flash drive. Since flash has a maximum >limit on read-write cycles, I was told to install linux without a swap >space. I have some questions regarding that. > >1. Is it possible to install RH 6.2 without a swap space? When I tried >to install RH 6.2 it dint allow me to proceed with out a swap partion. Is >there a way out of that? > >2. If not, is it possible to remove the swap partition after installation? > >3. If its not possible with RH 6.2, does any other distribution of linux >allow that? > >My flash disk is a 256 MB, so I have to fit in linux within this space. > >Thanks for your time and help. > >Sreekumar > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Fri Oct 17 21:09:44 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Tape drive problem? Message-ID: <20031017210944.2ec276c7.sfertch@real-time.com> Not sure if this is a physical problem with my DAT drive (DDS2) or not. But I get it with a few different tapes: root@ttkd:~# tar -cvf /dev/st0 mail mail/ mail/sent-mail mail/saved-messages tar: /dev/st0: Warning: Cannot close: Input/output error root@ttkd:~# mt -f /dev/st0 rewind root@ttkd:~# tar -tvf /dev/st0 tar: /dev/st0: Cannot read: Input/output error tar: At beginning of tape, quitting now tar: Error is not recoverable: exiting now root@ttkd:~# cpio -ict < /dev/st0 cpio: read error: Input/output error root@ttkd:~# mt -f /dev/st0 status SCSI 2 tape drive: File number=0, block number=0, partition=0. Tape block size 0 bytes. Density code 0x13 (DDS (61000 bpi)). Soft error count since last status=0 General status bits on (41010000): BOT ONLINE IM_REP_EN Any ideas? Do I need to bite the bullet and replace my drive? Or, am I doing tar and cpio commands incorrectly? The cpio command is there because I tried doing a cpio prior to this, and it failed as well. -- Shawn The difficult we do today; the impossible take a little longer. Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blots at visi.com Fri Oct 17 22:30:07 2003 From: blots at visi.com (Tom Penney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Installing linux without swap space In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1066447807.3234.1189.camel@lotsa> On Fri, 2003-10-17 at 17:19, Sreekumar Kodakara wrote: > Hi, > > I want to install linux to a flash drive. > My flash disk is a 256 MB, so I have to fit in linux within this space. Have you thought of tiny linux? http://tiny.seul.org/en/ It needs 80mb. That would leave plenty of room for stuff. I have not played with this myself. -- Tom Penney _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blots at visi.com Fri Oct 17 22:48:38 2003 From: blots at visi.com (Tom Penney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Tape drive problem? In-Reply-To: <20031017210944.2ec276c7.sfertch@real-time.com> References: <20031017210944.2ec276c7.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: <1066448918.3234.1215.camel@lotsa> On Fri, 2003-10-17 at 21:09, Shawn wrote: > Not sure if this is a physical problem with my DAT drive (DDS2) or > not. But I get it with a few different tapes: > tar: /dev/st0: Warning: Cannot close: Input/output error > root@ttkd:~# mt -f /dev/st0 rewind > root@ttkd:~# tar -tvf /dev/st0 > tar: /dev/st0: Cannot read: Input/output error > tar: At beginning of tape, quitting now > tar: Error is not recoverable: exiting now > > Any ideas? Do I need to bite the bullet and replace my drive? I've had similar problems with dirty heads. Have you cleaned the drive with a head cleaner lately? Perhaps you need a fresh head cleaner cartridge. You might want to check the drives manual about cleaning first but here are some cleaning cartridge links. http://www.ibuyernet.com/prod~id~122660~TDK_RCL-11.html http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh4/controller/home?O=&A=ShowProduct&Q=&sku=163766 -- Tom Penney _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Fri Oct 17 23:25:10 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Tape drive problem? In-Reply-To: <1066448918.3234.1215.camel@lotsa> References: <20031017210944.2ec276c7.sfertch@real-time.com> <1066448918.3234.1215.camel@lotsa> Message-ID: <20031017232510.2cbd773f.sfertch@real-time.com> On 17 Oct 2003 22:48:38 -0500 Tom Penney wrote: > On Fri, 2003-10-17 at 21:09, Shawn wrote: > > Not sure if this is a physical problem with my DAT drive (DDS2) or > > not. But I get it with a few different tapes: > > > tar: /dev/st0: Warning: Cannot close: Input/output error > > root@ttkd:~# mt -f /dev/st0 rewind > > root@ttkd:~# tar -tvf /dev/st0 > > tar: /dev/st0: Cannot read: Input/output error > > tar: At beginning of tape, quitting now > > tar: Error is not recoverable: exiting now > > > > > Any ideas? Do I need to bite the bullet and replace my drive? > > I've had similar problems with dirty heads. Have you cleaned the drive > with a head cleaner lately? Perhaps you need a fresh head cleaner > cartridge. You might want to check the drives manual about cleaning > first but here are some cleaning cartridge links. > > http://www.ibuyernet.com/prod~id~122660~TDK_RCL-11.html > http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh4/controller/home?O=&A=ShowProduct&Q=&sku=163766 > It's a used DAT drive with no manual. I've cleaned the heads a few times to see if I can get it to work, but each time it does the same thing. I finally got fed up with it and posted up what's going wrong. I'm afraid I'm going to have to replace it, but was hoping it was something I was doing... I think I'm going to look into a DAT40 if I can afford it. Getting enough data that I need to back up to those now. =( -- Shawn The difficult we do today; the impossible take a little longer. Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kent at structural-wood.com Sat Oct 18 09:59:26 2003 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Unable to enter a website Message-ID: <3F91554E.8030005@structural-wood.com> I've run into a website that is not allowing me to enter on the basis that it can't identify my browser. https://community.sterlingcommerce.com I've run into this on other web sites, but I've always been able to trivially bypass it by modifying my USER_AGENT string - in opera by doing a simple click on the 'identify' button, or in mozilla by editing my prefs.js file. Neither of these techniques seem to work in this case. Does anyone have any idea what this site is looking for? Any ideas how to bypass it? (I'm not 'cracking'. I'm the IT manager for a wood distribution firm and Home Depot is requiring us to use sterling as there online invoicing firm. A rather asinine and poor use of the web if you ask me - I would much rather fire off an XML formatted invoice to a server somewhere rather than tie up a clerical worker filling in a web form... But I digress...) (I've also contacted their tech support and they feel it is impossible to fix their web site. They must be using some of those stone tablet computer chips...) Kent _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cdf123 at cdf123.com Sat Oct 18 11:42:32 2003 From: cdf123 at cdf123.com (Chris Frederick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Unable to enter a website In-Reply-To: <3F91554E.8030005@structural-wood.com> References: <3F91554E.8030005@structural-wood.com> Message-ID: <1066495351.14059.9.camel@laptop.cdf123.com> It is possible that they are using ActiveX on their site. Probably written with Visual Interdev design time controls. If thats the case then only IE browsers would work on this site. There could also be a lot of IE only javascript code that can't execute so it errors out and can't figure out what your browser is. Either way they really should have better browser detection, both of these are really lousy, and probably very insecure. Design time controls in Visual Interdev open up way more information than I would ever want on a website. Chris Frederick On Sat, 2003-10-18 at 09:59, Kent Schumacher wrote: > I've run into a website that is not allowing me to enter on the > basis that it can't identify my browser. > > https://community.sterlingcommerce.com > > I've run into this on other web sites, but I've always been able > to trivially bypass it by modifying my USER_AGENT string - in opera > by doing a simple click on the 'identify' button, or in mozilla by > editing my prefs.js file. > > Neither of these techniques seem to work in this case. > > Does anyone have any idea what this site is looking for? Any ideas > how to bypass it? > > (I'm not 'cracking'. I'm the IT manager for a wood distribution firm > and Home Depot is requiring us to use sterling as there online invoicing > firm. A rather asinine and poor use of the web if you ask me - I would > much rather fire off an XML formatted invoice to a server somewhere rather > than tie up a clerical worker filling in a web form... But I digress...) > > (I've also contacted their tech support and they feel it is impossible > to fix their web site. They must be using some of those stone tablet > computer chips...) > > Kent > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Chris Frederick _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us Sat Oct 18 12:34:13 2003 From: jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us (James Kaufman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Unable to enter a website In-Reply-To: <3F91554E.8030005@structural-wood.com> References: <3F91554E.8030005@structural-wood.com> Message-ID: <20031018173413.GA24951@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> On Sat, Oct 18, 2003 at 09:59:26AM -0500, Kent Schumacher wrote: > I've run into a website that is not allowing me to enter on the > basis that it can't identify my browser. > > https://community.sterlingcommerce.com > > I've run into this on other web sites, but I've always been able > to trivially bypass it by modifying my USER_AGENT string - in opera > by doing a simple click on the 'identify' button, or in mozilla by > editing my prefs.js file. > > Neither of these techniques seem to work in this case. > > Does anyone have any idea what this site is looking for? Any ideas > how to bypass it? > > (I'm not 'cracking'. I'm the IT manager for a wood distribution firm > and Home Depot is requiring us to use sterling as there online invoicing > firm. A rather asinine and poor use of the web if you ask me - I would > much rather fire off an XML formatted invoice to a server somewhere rather > than tie up a clerical worker filling in a web form... But I digress...) > > (I've also contacted their tech support and they feel it is impossible > to fix their web site. They must be using some of those stone tablet > computer chips...) > > Kent > I just successfully connected using konqueror. I set my identity to IE 5.5 (Windows NT) and it brought me to the login page. -- Jim Kaufman mailto:jmk@linuxforbusiness.net Linux Evangelist cell: 612-481-9778 public key 0x6D802619 fax: 952-937-9832 http://www.linuxforbusiness.net --- He hasn't one redeeming vice. -- Oscar Wilde _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Sat Oct 18 12:39:56 2003 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] X Windows. In-Reply-To: <3F81A59D.1070102@visi.com> References: <3F805DCE.4080801@visi.com> <20031005180905.GA32751@mail.el-swifto.com> <3F81A59D.1070102@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031018173956.GA8788@wookimus.net> On Mon, Oct 06, 2003 at 12:25:49PM -0500, Sam MacDonald wrote: > Sometimes the latest and greatest just don't fit the hardware profile. > My system is a P200mm, 64 mob RAM, 2.5 gig disk, ISA NC (Link 220 = > one), ISA sound, and CPI video (old). > > New does not always mean better. No, but in this case, Debian stable (woody) IS what you want. It's not simply new, but more efficient and quicker for your hardware. With a P200 and 64M of memory, you should be able to run X quite well. The kernel should have no problems with a P200, nor should it have issues with your peripherals. The only time you should not be running stable is when you have an embedded device or something ancient, like a 386 with 2MB of ram. Take the aforementioned tip and install Debian 3.0rX, not 2.X. -- Chad Walstrom http://www.wookimus.net/ assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Sat Oct 18 12:43:05 2003 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] X Windows. In-Reply-To: <20031006132141.A3961@thinkunix.net> References: <3F805DCE.4080801@visi.com> <20031005131343.A21709@thinkunix.net> <3F81A354.7010802@visi.com> <3F81A890.2000308@druswanderings.net> <1065462752.771.34.camel@quack> <3F81B3A1.80909@visi.com> <20031006132141.A3961@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <20031018174305.GB8788@wookimus.net> On Mon, Oct 06, 2003 at 01:21:41PM -0500, Scot Jenkins wrote: > Sam MacDonald wrote: > > atp-get -h > > does not show "--purge" > > 'man apt-get' does, it's documented. Additionally, remember that apt is really a front end for dpkg. You can perform all of the commands that apt does using dpkg plus file-transfer tools, such as wget or ftp clients. man dpkg -- Chad Walstrom http://www.wookimus.net/ assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Sat Oct 18 12:44:26 2003 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] X Windows. In-Reply-To: <20031006122507.6039eea0.william.layer@comcast.net> References: <3F805DCE.4080801@visi.com> <20031005131343.A21709@thinkunix.net> <3F81A354.7010802@visi.com> <20031006122507.6039eea0.william.layer@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20031018174426.GC8788@wookimus.net> On Mon, Oct 06, 2003 at 12:25:07PM -0500, Bill Layer wrote: > Err, apt wasn't smart enough to determine that X is required for > Afterstep? Sounds like the base X install is just missing. Sounds like the ancient afterstep package Ol' Sam is using doesn't have the correct dependencies. Try the "new" Debian stable (Woody) and see what you get for results. > And what was your problem with Slackware again? ;) *shiver* -- Chad Walstrom http://www.wookimus.net/ assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031018/cc9ac3b9/attachment.pgp From kent at structural-wood.com Sat Oct 18 13:18:30 2003 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Unable to enter a website References: <3F91554E.8030005@structural-wood.com> <20031018173413.GA24951@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> Message-ID: <3F9183F6.3050405@structural-wood.com> James Kaufman wrote: > On Sat, Oct 18, 2003 at 09:59:26AM -0500, Kent Schumacher wrote: > >>I've run into a website that is not allowing me to enter on the >>basis that it can't identify my browser. >> >>https://community.sterlingcommerce.com >> (trim) >>Neither of these techniques seem to work in this case. >> >>Does anyone have any idea what this site is looking for? Any ideas >>how to bypass it? >> (trim) >>Kent >> > > > I just successfully connected using konqueror. I set my identity to IE 5.5 > (Windows NT) and it brought me to the login page. > Hmm, this is what I've got my browser sending (which doesn't work). (courtesy of www.grc.com [Shields up]->[Browser header]) Accept: text/xml,application/xml,application/xhtml+xml,text/html;q=0.9,text/plain;q=0.8,v$Accept-Language: en-us,en;q=0.5 Host: grc.com Referer: http://grc.com/x/ne.dll?rh1dkyd2 User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows NT 4.0) Content-Length: 32 Content-Type: application/x-www-form-urlencoded Via: 1.1 127.0.0.1 Accept-Encoding: gzip,deflate Accept-Charset: ISO-8859-1,utf-8;q=0.7,*;q=0.7 Keep-Alive: 300 Do you know what konquerer is sending? (I wasn't able to find an apt4rpm repository that would let me just grab konquerer). Thanks - just knowing it's doable under linux is a big help! Kent _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From austad at signal15.com Sat Oct 18 15:00:25 2003 From: austad at signal15.com (Jay Austad) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DMG file on linux -- or need a mac user In-Reply-To: <3F9183F6.3050405@structural-wood.com> References: <3F91554E.8030005@structural-wood.com> <20031018173413.GA24951@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <3F9183F6.3050405@structural-wood.com> Message-ID: How can a I burn a mac .dmg image under linux and still have it bootable? If someone with a mac and a burner wants to help me, I have something interesting you might like to see. :) -jay _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Sat Oct 18 15:51:41 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I give up...... Message-ID: <3F91A7DD.2030601@comcast.net> Obviously some people can't read proper English, they claim that I said: >Smoothwall is based on GPL products, and is good. >IPCop is based on GPL products, but is bad because it's based off >Smoothwall (a GPL product) They also claim that I said: >DONT USE IPCOP, IT'S STOLEN AND THEY ARE BAD PEOPLE! I NEVER said anything like either of the above two statements. And this person's idea of logic is (direct quote): >The value in logic is that multiple people should come to the same >conclusion when thinking clearly with the same data. That's ONLY true if the data presented is IRREFUTABLE evidence, such as 2+2=4. NOTHING that I saw in posts about Smoothwall was FIRST PARTY accounts. It was all heresay. Therefore I submit that a certain individual's logic is flawed because he is basing his logic NOT on facts, but on hersay. I did NOT say "don't use IPCop", I stated that they had used a version of SmoothWall and had stripped out the developer's names, NOT permissable under the GPL. Therefore I personally will not use their software. That is my opinion and whether or not others wish to listen to my opinion is strictly up to each and every individual on the list. NOT some overbearing hack who thinks he can bulldoze anyone who doesn't think the same way he does. I for one DO NOT BEND to the will of others, I have my own will, my own personality, and my own opinions. AND I respect other peoples right to have their opinions UNTIL such time as they start to disrespect me, then I no longer respect the person OR their opinions. I now consider this matter closed and will not respond to any more negative posts about me. Certain individuals can rant and rave about how much of a "troll" I am and I really don't care any more, because as I stated before, their opinions no longer hold any value. -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rudie at rudie.net Sat Oct 18 16:31:35 2003 From: rudie at rudie.net (Kevin Hinze) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I give up...... In-Reply-To: <3F91A7DD.2030601@comcast.net> References: <3F91A7DD.2030601@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20031018163135.5a2476fb.rudie@rudie.net> On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 15:51:41 -0500 Todd Young wrote: > That's ONLY true if the data presented is IRREFUTABLE evidence, such > as 2+2=4. NOTHING that I saw in posts about Smoothwall was FIRST PARTY > > accounts. It was all heresay. Therefore I submit that a certain > individual's logic is flawed because he is basing his logic NOT on > facts, but on hersay. I provided direct proof via the credits page I posted. > I did NOT say "don't use IPCop", I stated that they had used a version > > of SmoothWall and had stripped out the developer's names, NOT > permissable under the GPL. Therefore I personally will not use their > software. I challenge you to do your due dilligence. If you post something as fact, and you are refuted, please back it up with proof. You haven't done this yet, just a pdf that really could be anything. I had really considered this a dead issue, but you couldn't let it go. I have taken the time to find archives of both IPCOP 0.0.9 and SmoothWall 0.9.9 GPL sources. I untarred and grepped through for developer's names. For SmoothWall, Richard Morrell's name is only in one file, main.c. Richard Morrell's name was not in src/install+setup/setup/main.c for IPCOP. I ran diff on both main.c's for each distro and it would appear that they are different enough to be a rewrite. So, they changed Richard Morrell's code and removed his name. Other developer's names are there for both distros. Don't believe me, try it yourself. Also pulled from the README of IPCOP 0.0.9 (the first release) "This is the first version of IPCop. It is entirely based on Smoothwall, but the distribution is actually built from source. This distribution is MAINLY untested!!! Use it on your own risk." > I now consider this matter closed and will not respond to any more > negative posts about me. Certain individuals can rant and rave about > how much of a "troll" I am and I really don't care any more, because > as I stated before, their opinions no longer hold any value. Well, it might do you good to admit that we are all wrong sometimes. I personally use IPCOP and I knew that your inflammatory and accusatory statements were incorrect. But through all of this, you haven't bothered to back anything up with proof. As this is not a negative post about you, you are most certainly free to respond. After all we all have our opinions. -- -Kevin Hinze rudie@rudie.net | rudie@sihope.com hinz0047@tc.umn.edu | http://rudie.net Democracy: two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for lunch Liberty: a well armed sheep expressing his rights. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us Sat Oct 18 17:27:34 2003 From: jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us (James Kaufman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Unable to enter a website In-Reply-To: <3F9183F6.3050405@structural-wood.com> References: <3F91554E.8030005@structural-wood.com> <20031018173413.GA24951@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <3F9183F6.3050405@structural-wood.com> Message-ID: <20031018222734.GA30294@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> On Sat, Oct 18, 2003 at 01:18:30PM -0500, Kent Schumacher wrote: > > Do you know what konquerer is sending? (I wasn't able to find > an apt4rpm repository that would let me just grab konquerer). > > Thanks - just knowing it's doable under linux is a big help! > Kent > Accept: text/*, image/jpeg, image/png, image/*, */* Accept-Language: en Connection: Keep-Alive Host: grc.com Referer: http://grc.com/x/ne.dll?rh1dkyd2 User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows NT 5.0) Pragma: no-cache Content-Length: 34 Content-Type: application/x-www-form-urlencoded Accept-Encoding: x-gzip, x-deflate, gzip, deflate, identity Cache-control: no-cache Accept-Charset: iso-8859-1, utf-8;q=0.5, *;q=0.5 -- Jim Kaufman mailto:jmk@linuxforbusiness.net Linux Evangelist cell: 612-481-9778 public key 0x6D802619 fax: 952-937-9832 http://www.linuxforbusiness.net _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From william.layer at comcast.net Sat Oct 18 17:33:32 2003 From: william.layer at comcast.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DMG file on linux -- or need a mac user In-Reply-To: References: <3F91554E.8030005@structural-wood.com> <20031018173413.GA24951@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <3F9183F6.3050405@structural-wood.com> Message-ID: <20031018173332.22a87274.william.layer@comcast.net> On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 15:00:25 -0500 Jay Austad wrote: > How can a I burn a mac .dmg image under linux and still have it > bootable? Welcome to the world of proprietary CDrom image files. Unless you can find a linux tool that will either parse that image, or natively support it, you are probably screwed. See also: .nrg, .ccd, .cdi, .mds There is a library in development called 'discmage', but I have been unable to successfully get it to rip any of my proprietary test images. Others have reported success. http://libdiscmage.berlios.de/ If you are able to extract the tracks, you can use cdrecord to manually master a bootable cd from the raw tracks. YMMV if we are talking Mac bootable, I'm not sure if MacOS bootable CDs are of the eltorito type. -L _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From deschiff at winternet.com Sat Oct 18 16:50:22 2003 From: deschiff at winternet.com (David Schiff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Tape drive problems? Message-ID: <1066513822.1007.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> I have a Seagate Model # STD224000N that came out of the Box I donated for the Instalifest Distro server. It''s yours if you want it but I just gave Scot J. the scsi card for the server. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gkrueger at cleosci.com Sat Oct 18 23:19:24 2003 From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (gkrueger) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Good job! (was: I give up......) References: <3F91A7DD.2030601@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3F9210CC.2040608@cleosci.com> That is most excellent! We need more people in this world willing to have their own opinions -- yet respect others' opinions and their respective rights to have them! GK > Todd Young wrote: > That is my opinion and whether or not others wish to listen to my > opinion is strictly up to each and every individual on the list. NOT > some overbearing hack who thinks he can bulldoze anyone who doesn't > think the same way he does. I for one DO NOT BEND to the will of > others, I have my own will, my own personality, and my own opinions. > AND I respect other peoples right to have their opinions UNTIL such > time as they start to disrespect me, then I no longer respect the > person OR their opinions. > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Sun Oct 19 08:07:15 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] X Windows. In-Reply-To: <20031018173956.GA8788@wookimus.net> References: <3F805DCE.4080801@visi.com> <20031005180905.GA32751@mail.el-swifto.com> <3F81A59D.1070102@visi.com> <20031018173956.GA8788@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <3F928C83.6000309@visi.com> Woody is what I'm using. I just can't figure out what packages will get me an install of X windows with Afterstep. Side note: Don't flame this because it's "My" opinion and not just because it's My opinion. What I'm saying is about Linux and main stream computer users. I'm really trying hard to learn Linux but as with everyone time is a premium. I use old hardware because thats what I have and can afford. So I use older distributions because it runs faster on old the hardware. I don't even have a CD burner because I can't afford one. I'm not poor but I have other more important priorities then the latest and greatest hardware. All I want to know, without having to do a research paper, is how to install "X windows and Afterstep" without all the extra goodies I don't need. A simple editor for webpages and eMail client is really all I need. Using "vi" or "joe" and "mutt" is just not practical for "Me". I want to learn Linux not the greater part of " vi" just to edit the samba.conf file (joe is plenty). Powerful does not make better in my case. I want to be able to tell people with older hardware (and 0 disposable income) that Linux is an alternative to the latest and greatest from MS. These people don't have networks at home, maybe dialup, don't need more then file and print on a single computer. Open Office is "is" the only application these people will really need. Having a stable computer is the single most important thing to these people. The people I'm talking about shutdown and turn off their computer after using it, they don't want to pay the power company for something they really are not using. Any "advice" is very welcome, save your energy if your going to flame, I put flames in the bit bucket. Sam. Chad Walstrom wrote: >On Mon, Oct 06, 2003 at 12:25:49PM -0500, Sam MacDonald wrote: > > >>Sometimes the latest and greatest just don't fit the hardware profile. >>My system is a P200mm, 64 mob RAM, 2.5 gig disk, ISA NC (Link 220 = >>one), ISA sound, and CPI video (old). >> >>New does not always mean better. >> >> > >No, but in this case, Debian stable (woody) IS what you want. It's not >simply new, but more efficient and quicker for your hardware. With a >P200 and 64M of memory, you should be able to run X quite well. The >kernel should have no problems with a P200, nor should it have issues >with your peripherals. > >The only time you should not be running stable is when you have an >embedded device or something ancient, like a 386 with 2MB of ram. Take >the aforementioned tip and install Debian 3.0rX, not 2.X. > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Sun Oct 19 10:30:04 2003 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] X Windows. In-Reply-To: <3F928C83.6000309@visi.com> References: <3F805DCE.4080801@visi.com> <20031005180905.GA32751@mail.el-swifto.com> <3F81A59D.1070102@visi.com> <20031018173956.GA8788@wookimus.net> <3F928C83.6000309@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031019153004.GA16667@mail.el-swifto.com> On Sun, Oct 19, 2003 at 08:07:15AM -0500, Sam MacDonald wrote: [snip] > Woody is what I'm using. [snip] > ... So I use older distributions because it runs faster on old > the hardware. Well, I wouldn't call Debian/woody "old". It's "stable", and fully supported. And it installs just fine on older hardware, e.g. the 386 laptop I installed it on a month ago, and the 486sx I use for a firewall. OK, it *would* be nice to use a packaged version of exim4, but I guess I can wait for sarge. > Any "advice" is very welcome, save your energy if your going > to flame, I put flames in the bit bucket. [searches through fortunes] Aha! A walk down the path of history is crunchy with the crispy corpses of those who pooh-poohed or ignored the clown car of ridicule when it pulled up to the curb. -- Stephen Jones -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Sun Oct 19 13:19:22 2003 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:17 2005 Subject: Use shorewall... (was Re: [TCLUG] My final note about Smoothwall vs. IPCop) In-Reply-To: <20031017233603.GH23508@techmonkeys.org> References: <101720032245.11578.3ab4@comcast.net> <20031017233603.GH23508@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20031019181922.GD11749@wookimus.net> Just use smoothwall. It works. It's Free. It's GPL. It's in Debian. ;-) Package: shorewall Priority: optional Section: net Installed-Size: 376 Maintainer: Lorenzo Martignoni Architecture: all Version: 1.4.7b1-1 Depends: iptables (>= 1.2.7a), iproute, debconf Suggests: shorewall-doc, kernel-image-2.4 Conflicts: ipmasq, knetfilter, firewall-easy Filename: pool/main/s/shorewall/shorewall_1.4.7b1-1_all.deb Size: 82996 MD5sum: 66c1f6eb3a4a250b16f7ec7d26f4c4a8 Description: Shoreline Firewall (Shorewall) Shorewall is an iptables based firewall that can be used on a dedicated firewall system, a multi-function masquerade gateway/server or on a standalone Linux system. . Shorewall supports these features: * Customizable using configuration files. * Supports status monitoring with an audible alarm when an "interesting" packet is detected. * Include a fallback script that backs out the installation of the most recent version of Shoreline Firewall and an uninstall script for completely uninstalling the firewall. * Static NAT is supported. * Proxy ARP is supported. * Provides DMZ functionality. * Support for IPSEC, GRE and IPIP Tunnels. * Support for Traffic Control/Shaping -- Chad Walstrom http://www.wookimus.net/ assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031019/971b06b7/attachment.pgp From auditodd at comcast.net Sun Oct 19 13:23:39 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:18 2005 Subject: Use shorewall... (was Re: [TCLUG] My final note about Smoothwall vs. IPCop) In-Reply-To: <20031019181922.GD11749@wookimus.net> References: <101720032245.11578.3ab4@comcast.net> <20031017233603.GH23508@techmonkeys.org> <20031019181922.GD11749@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <3F92D6AB.7070001@comcast.net> Oops, I think he meant "Shorewall" in his first statement. :-) It's also packaged with Mandrake 9.1, not sure about other distros though. Chad Walstrom wrote: > Just use smoothwall. It works. It's Free. It's GPL. It's in Debian. > ;-) > > Package: shorewall > Priority: optional > Section: net > Installed-Size: 376 > Maintainer: Lorenzo Martignoni > Architecture: all > Version: 1.4.7b1-1 > Depends: iptables (>= 1.2.7a), iproute, debconf > Suggests: shorewall-doc, kernel-image-2.4 > Conflicts: ipmasq, knetfilter, firewall-easy > Filename: pool/main/s/shorewall/shorewall_1.4.7b1-1_all.deb > Size: 82996 > MD5sum: 66c1f6eb3a4a250b16f7ec7d26f4c4a8 > Description: Shoreline Firewall (Shorewall) > Shorewall is an iptables based firewall that can be used on a dedicated > firewall system, a multi-function masquerade gateway/server or on a standalone > Linux system. > . > Shorewall supports these features: > * Customizable using configuration files. > * Supports status monitoring with an audible alarm when an "interesting" > packet is detected. > * Include a fallback script that backs out the installation of the most > recent version of Shoreline Firewall and an uninstall script for > completely uninstalling the firewall. > * Static NAT is supported. > * Proxy ARP is supported. > * Provides DMZ functionality. > * Support for IPSEC, GRE and IPIP Tunnels. > * Support for Traffic Control/Shaping > -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Sun Oct 19 13:39:28 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Embedded Linux device Message-ID: <3F92DA60.5080404@comcast.net> How many of you have heard about the Actiontec DualPC modem? It's a small external dial up modem running embedded Linux (uCLinux to be exact) with 2 network ports on the "inside". I say inside because it's not just a modem. It also serves as a NAT type firewall, and a DHCP server for the inside ports, and a small web server for user admin of the device. My dad is running WinXP, and after getting hit with the Blaster worm, it didn't take much to talk him into purchasing this device. He had problems setting it up, so I drove to his house and set it up for him and I applied the firmware update. The firmware update closes some "holes" found by one of the first people to start playing with the Linux in this device. The REALLY cool part is that Actiontec is supporting and interacting with the "user" community who are interested in modifying this device for their own purposes. They have released all the Linux code for the device so that those with the skills and knowledge can "tweak" the device to their heart's content. Links: http://www.actiontec.com/products/modems/dual_pcmodem/dpm_overview.html http://www.actiontec.com/support/modems/dualpcmodem.html http://opensource.actiontec.com/dualpcmodem/index.html There is also a mailing list for users: http://www.express.org/mailman/listinfo/actionhack There is actually a company rep subscribed to the list and personally interacting with members of the list (most those that live in his area, but also those visiting the area). I feel confident recommending this device to anyone running Windows on a dialup as a great first line of defense against hackers and worms. Thank you for listening (actually reading). -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Sun Oct 19 14:06:18 2003 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] X Windows. In-Reply-To: <3F928C83.6000309@visi.com> References: <3F805DCE.4080801@visi.com> <20031005180905.GA32751@mail.el-swifto.com> <3F81A59D.1070102@visi.com> <20031018173956.GA8788@wookimus.net> <3F928C83.6000309@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031019190618.GF11749@wookimus.net> On Sun, Oct 19, 2003 at 08:07:15AM -0500, Sam MacDonald wrote: > Woody is what I'm using. I just can't figure out what packages will > get me an install of X windows with Afterstep. My bad. I interpreted the version you were running as Potato, not Woody. I also made a bad assumption about dependencies on afterstep. You don't actually need to depend upon an installed X Server instance to run afterstep. X11 protocol lends itself to network-based client/server quite well. Indeed, you do need a running instance of X in order to use the window manager, but you do not need to have X installed on the machine that is the server for the window manager software. > Side note: Don't flame this because it's "My" opinion and not just > because it's My opinion. If you interpreted my post as flaming, I apologize. I also implore you to grow a slightly thicker skin. I tend to write objective, sugar-free posts. > What I'm saying is about Linux and main stream computer users. I'm > really trying hard to learn Linux but as with everyone time is a > premium. Agreed. Learning something new takes time, and Linux distributions are attempts at minimizing those learning curves. Some are better for newbies than others. Debian is not exactly newbie friendly, unless you're using something like Knoppix or Libranet which provides a jumpstart at the necessary packages for desktop environments. > ... So I use older distributions because it runs faster on old the > hardware. This is not necessarily true. Choose your arguments carefully here. You seem to make broad, sweeping conclusions in one sentance within close proximity to statements like, "I'm a newbie." > I don't even have a CD burner because I can't afford one. I'm not > poor but I have other more important priorities then the latest and > greatest hardware. Great. You share an opinion common with many list members here. > All I want to know, without having to do a research paper, is how to > install "X windows and Afterstep" without all the extra goodies I > don't need. Unfortunately, doing research is par for the course with respect to Linux and the various distributions. As I said above, some distributions are newbie friendly and others are not. There are also distribution-specific user email lists for help if you can't get effective answers from TCLUG. As always, there's the FAQ's and basic Intro documents to any software project to reference, not to mention Google. > Any "advice" is very welcome, save your energy if your going to flame, > I put flames in the bit bucket. A "flame" is something you as a recipient of list email needs to intrepret for yourself. If you dislike my posts for some reason, then killfile me. I will take no offense in such an action. I intend to call you out for misstatements and inaccurate assumptions, not in the intention to flame, but to correct. Now, for further and appropriate advice to you. Debian is very well documented. You may want to install and read the following documents (listed in alphabetical order): debian-guide - Text from: Debian GNU/Linux: Guide to Installation and Usage dwarfs-debian-guide - Dwarf's guide to installing and using Debian GNU/Linux debian-reference-en - Debian system administration guide, English original doc-debian - Debian Project documentation, Debian FAQ and other documents newbiedoc - Documentation by and for newbies quick-reference-en - Debian system administration guide, English excerpt Subject yourself to a little research... It'll take you further than you would expect. -- Chad Walstrom http://www.wookimus.net/ assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031019/dc1a843c/attachment.pgp From chewie at wookimus.net Sun Oct 19 14:11:03 2003 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] X Windows. In-Reply-To: <20031019190618.GF11749@wookimus.net> References: <3F805DCE.4080801@visi.com> <20031005180905.GA32751@mail.el-swifto.com> <3F81A59D.1070102@visi.com> <20031018173956.GA8788@wookimus.net> <3F928C83.6000309@visi.com> <20031019190618.GF11749@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <20031019191103.GG11749@wookimus.net> On Sun, Oct 19, 2003 at 02:06:18PM -0500, Chad Walstrom wrote: > (listed in alphabetical order): um...psuedo-alphabetical ;-) -- Chad Walstrom http://www.wookimus.net/ assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031019/afad7287/attachment.pgp From pjcrump at bitstream.net Sun Oct 19 19:02:09 2003 From: pjcrump at bitstream.net (pjcrump@bitstream.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Suggestions for Time Tracking? Message-ID: <1066608129.3f9326010f94f@mail.bitstream.net> Looking for some suggestions for web based time tracking.. Installed Tutos from sourceforge but I'm not too impresed.. Any other suggestions? - PJ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Sun Oct 19 20:07:40 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Novell and IBM Linux Solutions Seminar Message-ID: <20031020010739.GA18701@fandre.com> I was asked by our local Novell rep to forward this on to the list. I know, it is probably a lot of sales and marketing fluff, but it might be worth checking out. And maybe pass it on to your pointy-haired boss. -- Clay Novell and IBM have over 100 business signed up for the first public push toward Linux. Please visit the following http://www.novell.com/linux/seminar.html and pick Minneapolis to sign up. Take a look at the agenda I think you will find it useful. I look forward to you attending. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From list at slushpupie.com Sun Oct 19 22:42:15 2003 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Spam Filtering Message-ID: <20031019224215.59dc9dcd.list@slushpupie.com> What spam filtering do people use? I have been using SpamAssassin, but it seems the spam is mutating faster than SpamAssassin can be updated (at least on my inbox). I have also tried Lokisa (statistical spam filtering) but it dosnt seem to train well for me. I am looking for something that can be run via procmail in some way, and the statistical filters seem to be the way to go. Jay _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From austad at signal15.com Sun Oct 19 22:46:44 2003 From: austad at signal15.com (Jay Austad) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Suggestions for Time Tracking? In-Reply-To: <1066608129.3f9326010f94f@mail.bitstream.net> References: <1066608129.3f9326010f94f@mail.bitstream.net> Message-ID: <060FA294-02B0-11D8-BB6A-00039395531E@signal15.com> GNU Project? On Oct 19, 2003, at 7:02 PM, pjcrump@bitstream.net wrote: > > > Looking for some suggestions for web based time tracking.. Installed > Tutos from > sourceforge but I'm not too impresed.. Any other suggestions? > > - PJ > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mike at JentgeS.NeT Sun Oct 19 23:26:40 2003 From: mike at JentgeS.NeT (Michael Jentges) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Spam Filtering In-Reply-To: <20031019224215.59dc9dcd.list@slushpupie.com> References: <20031019224215.59dc9dcd.list@slushpupie.com> Message-ID: <4428.199.199.150.6.1066624000.squirrel@webmail.jentges.net> And hence spewed: Jay Kline > What spam filtering do people use? I have been using SpamAssassin, but Plain old procmail. Recipies dump to shitcan@localhost based on Subject, Sender,body content. This week I added 'rx' to the Subject recipes. -mj _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Mon Oct 20 08:05:06 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Spam Filtering In-Reply-To: <20031019224215.59dc9dcd.list@slushpupie.com> References: <20031019224215.59dc9dcd.list@slushpupie.com> Message-ID: <1066655105.9552.16.camel@unixws1> FYI - DCC has consistently accounted for more than 50% of the spam stopped for our (commercial) anti-spam product over the last couple of weeks (since we brought it to the latest version). For the last 10 minutes: DCC 51% SpamAss 28% Blacklist 9% (user-defined keyword-based blacklist) DNSBL 8% (User's choice of 70+ DNS-based blacklists) Razor 1% (Razor version 1 - needs upgraded :( ) Other 1% (Anti-virus, etc) Real-time stats updated every 10 minutes are at http://marvin.sihope.com Over the last 60 days, total spam stopped: SpamAssassin 438,969 DNSBL 293,472 DCC 230,471 Blacklist 87,873 Virus 10,048 Razor 8,602 I wouldn't count on these numbers as an actual benchmark of effectiveness. Not all users have the same settings, so it's possible that some people have only 1 of these tools turned on, or their SA scores are different, or their DCC threshholds are different, etc. On Sun, 2003-10-19 at 22:42, Jay Kline wrote: > What spam filtering do people use? I have been using SpamAssassin, but > it seems the spam is mutating faster than SpamAssassin can be updated > (at least on my inbox). I have also tried Lokisa (statistical spam > filtering) but it dosnt seem to train well for me. I am looking for > something that can be run via procmail in some way, and the statistical > filters seem to be the way to go. > > Jay > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dru at druswanderings.net Mon Oct 20 08:55:16 2003 From: dru at druswanderings.net (The Wandering Dru) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Spam Filtering In-Reply-To: <20031019224215.59dc9dcd.list@slushpupie.com> References: <20031019224215.59dc9dcd.list@slushpupie.com> Message-ID: <3F93E944.5060406@druswanderings.net> Jay Kline wrote: > What spam filtering do people use? I've been using bogofilter (http://bogofilter.org) with an IMAP server and Maildirs. I use a procmail rule to run the mail through bogofilter and sort it into subdirectories. I have a set of SPAM folders as follows: SPAM | unverified | verified | undetected | misdetected | processed | verified | undetected | misdetected Things that bogofilter thinks is SPAM get put in the SPAM.unverfied folder where I can look them over and make sure they actually are. I then move them to the SPAM.verified folder. False positives get moved to the SPAM.misdetected folder, false negatives to the SPAM.undetected folder. A cron job runs a script every ten minutes that parses through the folders and then moves the mail down to their respective subfolders folders of SPAM.processed. It took about 4 months to get things working well (I didn't use somebody elses spam archive to train it) but now it catches about 95% of it. It should also be said that I get about 650-700 spams a week. If you get more it will train quicker. I also have the email server set up with RBL blocking. It refuses about 5% of the spam we get. -- The Wandering Dru http://druswanderings.net <--- Things 'n' Such Get nifty TCLUG merchandise at the TCLUG Store! http://www.cafeshops.com/tclug _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Mon Oct 20 08:58:50 2003 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (Johnny Fulcrum) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] random reboots Message-ID: Best place to start looking for problem when experiencing random reboot is ....? 100 people surveyed, top 5 answers on the board... survey says: _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dru at druswanderings.net Mon Oct 20 09:08:32 2003 From: dru at druswanderings.net (The Wandering Dru) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] random reboots In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F93EC60.8060206@druswanderings.net> Johnny Fulcrum wrote: > Best place to start looking for problem when experiencing random reboot > is ....? > > 100 people surveyed, top 5 answers on the board... > > survey says: Cooling - Video card too RAM - including cache on the processor Bad Blocks in SWAP Cables - both internal and external BIOS Chip seated correctly This, of course, is assuming that things were working correctly and this is a new problem (and that you aren't running that other OS). ;) -- The Wandering Dru http://druswanderings.net <--- Things 'n' Such Get nifty TCLUG merchandise at the TCLUG Store! http://www.cafeshops.com/tclug _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Mon Oct 20 09:10:24 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] X Windows. Message-ID: Sam, I could not agree with you more here, with the exception of 'old hardware' equals 'old distribution'. BTW, if you are interested in getting a inexpensive CD burner there is one at General Nanosystems for $40: http://www.nanosys1.com/cdr-lo-52-32-52.html I have one, it works nice. Good luck, Troy >>> smac@visi.com 10/19/03 08:07AM >>> I use old hardware because thats what I have and can afford. So I use older distributions because it runs faster on old the hardware. I don't even have a CD burner because I can't afford one. I'm not poor but I have other more important priorities then the latest and greatest hardware. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com Mon Oct 20 09:13:40 2003 From: Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com (Lansing, Dan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] random reboots Message-ID: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D374D@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> SSB0aGluayAyIGNvbXB1dGVycyBhZ28gSSBoYWQgcmFuZG9tIHJlYm9vdHMgYW5kIHRoZSBjdWxw cml0IHdhcyBhIGJhZCBtYWluYm9hcmQuLi4uUk1BZWQgdGhlIGJvYXJkIGFuZCB3aXRoIHRoZSBy ZXBsYWNlbWVudCBldmVyeXRoaW5nIHdhcyBoYXBweSBhbmQgc28gd2FzIEkgDQoNCkRhbiBMYW5z aW5nDQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpGcm9tOiB0Y2x1Zy1saXN0LWFkbWlu QG1uLWxpbnV4Lm9yZyBbbWFpbHRvOnRjbHVnLWxpc3QtYWRtaW5AbW4tbGludXgub3JnXSBPbiBC ZWhhbGYgT2YgSm9obm55IEZ1bGNydW0NClNlbnQ6IE1vbmRheSwgT2N0b2JlciAyMCwgMjAwMyA4 OjU5IEFNDQpUbzogdGNsdWctbGlzdEBtbi1saW51eC5vcmcNClN1YmplY3Q6IFtUQ0xVR10gcmFu ZG9tIHJlYm9vdHMNCg0KQmVzdCBwbGFjZSB0byBzdGFydCBsb29raW5nIGZvciBwcm9ibGVtIHdo ZW4gZXhwZXJpZW5jaW5nIHJhbmRvbSByZWJvb3QgaXMgDQouLi4uPw0KDQoxMDAgcGVvcGxlIHN1 cnZleWVkLCB0b3AgNSBhbnN3ZXJzIG9uIHRoZSBib2FyZC4uLg0KDQpzdXJ2ZXkgc2F5czoNCg0K DQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KVENMVUcg TWFpbGluZyBMaXN0IC0gTWlubmVhcG9saXMvU3QuIFBhdWwsIE1pbm5lc290YQ0KaHR0cDovL3d3 dy5tbi1saW51eC5vcmcgdGNsdWctbGlzdEBtbi1saW51eC5vcmcNCmh0dHBzOi8vbWFpbG1hbi5y ZWFsLXRpbWUuY29tL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vdGNsdWctbGlzdA0K _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Mon Oct 20 09:15:40 2003 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (Johnny Fulcrum) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] random reboots In-Reply-To: <3F93EC60.8060206@druswanderings.net> References: <3F93EC60.8060206@druswanderings.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:08:32 -0500, The Wandering Dru wrote: > Johnny Fulcrum wrote: > >> Best place to start looking for problem when experiencing random reboot >> is ....? >> >> 100 people surveyed, top 5 answers on the board... >> >> survey says: > > Cooling - Video card too > RAM - including cache on the processor > Bad Blocks in SWAP > Cables - both internal and external > BIOS Chip seated correctly > > This, of course, is assuming that things were working correctly and this > is a new problem (and that you aren't running that other OS). ;) > Started today - mandrake 9.1 - noticed that the machine had rebooted over the weekend (it's my work box). It's rebooted on me twice this morning - I did mess with my desktop backgrounds - one of them was a program called worldclock - after the first reboot - I got rid of that background and changed them all back to plain old two color blended backgrounds... _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Mon Oct 20 09:26:44 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] random reboots In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F93F0A4.1020204@visi.com> On the hardware end look at the power supply. A power supply thats' going bad will do funny things like rebooting. A short in your power cable could cause real problems. Wake on LAN is another thing to look at if it's enabled. I also had a dead SparQ drive cause my machine to not boot on a cold start and I think it caused some reboots. If you fed a Gremlin after midnight you may want to check your kitchen :-D Remember if you had a bad power surge or lightning, and something got fried, home owners insurance "should" cover a new or part of a new computer :-) My mother in law got a new P4 with all the cool stuff after a lightning strike took out her modem and sound board. Sam. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kent at structural-wood.com Mon Oct 20 09:23:46 2003 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] random reboots References: <3F93EC60.8060206@druswanderings.net> Message-ID: <3F93EFF2.2040604@structural-wood.com> Once and only once I had a spurious rebooting issue fixed by forcing a root filesystem check (ext3 filesystem). Johnny Fulcrum wrote: > On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:08:32 -0500, The Wandering Dru > wrote: > >> Johnny Fulcrum wrote: >> >>> Best place to start looking for problem when experiencing random >>> reboot is ....? >>> >>> 100 people surveyed, top 5 answers on the board... >>> >>> survey says: >> >> >> Cooling - Video card too >> RAM - including cache on the processor >> Bad Blocks in SWAP >> Cables - both internal and external >> BIOS Chip seated correctly >> >> This, of course, is assuming that things were working correctly and >> this is a new problem (and that you aren't running that other OS). ;) >> > > Started today - mandrake 9.1 - noticed that the machine had rebooted > over the weekend (it's my work box). > > It's rebooted on me twice this morning - I did mess with my desktop > backgrounds - one of them was a program called worldclock - after the > first reboot - I got rid of that background and changed them all back to > plain old two color blended backgrounds... > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blots at visi.com Mon Oct 20 09:23:45 2003 From: blots at visi.com (Tom Penney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] random reboots In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1066659825.15243.24.camel@lotsa> On Mon, 2003-10-20 at 08:58, Johnny Fulcrum wrote: > Best place to start looking for problem when experiencing random reboot is > ....? > > 100 people surveyed, top 5 answers on the board... > > survey says: The only time I have had this problem it was a cooling issue, Processor. -- Tom Penney _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Mon Oct 20 10:21:01 2003 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Spam Filtering In-Reply-To: <20031019224215.59dc9dcd.list@slushpupie.com> References: <20031019224215.59dc9dcd.list@slushpupie.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 19 Oct 2003, Jay Kline wrote: > What spam filtering do people use? I have been using SpamAssassin, but > it seems the spam is mutating faster than SpamAssassin can be updated > (at least on my inbox). I have also tried Lokisa (statistical spam > filtering) but it dosnt seem to train well for me. I am looking for > something that can be run via procmail in some way, and the statistical > filters seem to be the way to go. Do you have Bayesian filtering enabled in SpamAssassin? If you actually feed your Bayes DB, it keeps up with the spammers fairly well. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Mon Oct 20 10:36:07 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] random reboots In-Reply-To: <1066659825.15243.24.camel@lotsa> References: <1066659825.15243.24.camel@lotsa> Message-ID: <3F9400E7.30008@eworld3.net> Tom Penney wrote: > On Mon, 2003-10-20 at 08:58, Johnny Fulcrum wrote: > >>Best place to start looking for problem when experiencing random reboot is >>....? >> >>100 people surveyed, top 5 answers on the board... >> >>survey says: > > > The only time I have had this problem it was a cooling issue, Processor. > Same here. I had a cheapo fan cooling the heat sink and it would *occasionally* stop spinning. Luckily I had another one laying around that worked just fine. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Mon Oct 20 10:46:08 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] random reboots In-Reply-To: <3F93F0A4.1020204@visi.com> References: <3F93F0A4.1020204@visi.com> Message-ID: <3F940340.7020008@comcast.net> Along the line of looking at hardware. Look at the capcitors on the motherboard. Most of them have an "X" in the metal on the top. If the tops are buldging then the capacitors are fried and you are looking at other issues if you continue to use the motherboard. I'm not sure how many motherboards this affects, but I know for a fact it affects IBM Intellistation EPro machines, circa manufacture 2001-2. There was a batch of bad capacitors that hit the market, I know IBM used them, but I'm not sure how many other manufacturers did. Sam MacDonald wrote: > On the hardware end look at the power supply. A power supply thats' > going bad will do funny things like rebooting. A short in your power > cable could cause real problems. Wake on LAN is another thing to look > at if it's enabled. I also had a dead SparQ drive cause my machine to > not boot on a cold start and I think it caused some reboots. > > If you fed a Gremlin after midnight you may want to check your kitchen :-D > > Remember if you had a bad power surge or lightning, and something got > fried, home owners insurance "should" cover a new or part of a new > computer :-) My mother in law got a new P4 with all the cool stuff > after a lightning strike took out her modem and sound board. > > Sam. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Mon Oct 20 09:14:37 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (webmaster@mn-linux.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] A new classified ad at TCLUG Classifieds Message-ID: <200310201414.h9KEEbS09269@crusader.real-time.com> A new TCLUG classified ad at was placed Mon Oct 20 09:14:36 2003. Name: Bruce Broecker Category: free Subject: Dual Slot 1 mobo and case Ad: Dual Slot 1 motherboard in an Intergraph case. All other parts have been stripped out. Free to good home. Details of Motherboard are unknown. To view this and other ads at TCLUG Classifieds, please visit: http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/classifieds.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From william.layer at comcast.net Mon Oct 20 09:07:49 2003 From: william.layer at comcast.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] random reboots In-Reply-To: References: <3F93EC60.8060206@druswanderings.net> Message-ID: <20031020090749.74565d1c.william.layer@comcast.net> On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:15:40 -0500 Johnny Fulcrum wrote: > It's rebooted on me twice this morning - I did mess with my desktop > backgrounds - one of them was a program called worldclock - after the > first reboot - I got rid of that background and changed them all back to > plain old two color blended backgrounds... Reboot as in shutdown -r now, or as in a sudden coldstart? If nothing has changed but the OS, it sounds like a driver isn't playing well with a piece of hardware. Any device on the PCI or ISA bus can more-or-less 'panic' and hit the reset line, which coldstarts the system. Video drivers & network drivers are a good place to look, assuming the hardware is not damaged or misconfigured. -L _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lxy at cloudnet.com Mon Oct 20 11:09:29 2003 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] random reboots In-Reply-To: <3F940340.7020008@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Todd Young wrote: > There was a batch of bad capacitors that hit the market, I know IBM used > them, but I'm not sure how many other manufacturers did. Intel used them for awhile as well. I don't remember the chipset, but if you've got a PIII Intel board 700-1Ghz you may experience this problam. As for your reboot problem, any chance you're overworking your power supply? I once had too many HDs hooked up to my 300watt and it didn't occur to me for a week why my computer was rebooting constantly. -Brian _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Mon Oct 20 11:26:18 2003 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (Johnny Fulcrum) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] random reboots In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Seems to be software related! ever since I changed my desktop backgrounds back to something simple (solid color) it has not rebooted. As soon as I'm done building mod-ssl apache, I'm going to play around with the backgrounds and see if I can get it to reboot at random! I haven't touched the hardware in this box for like ever! On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:09:29 -0500 (CDT), Brian wrote: > On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Todd Young wrote: > >> There was a batch of bad capacitors that hit the market, I know IBM used >> them, but I'm not sure how many other manufacturers did. > > Intel used them for awhile as well. I don't remember the chipset, but if > you've got a PIII Intel board 700-1Ghz you may experience this problam. > > As for your reboot problem, any chance you're overworking your power > supply? I once had too many HDs hooked up to my 300watt and it didn't > occur to me for a week why my computer was rebooting constantly. > > -Brian > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bmaas at open-techsys.com Mon Oct 20 11:53:32 2003 From: bmaas at open-techsys.com (Ben Maas) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] random reboots In-Reply-To: <3F940340.7020008@comcast.net> References: <3F93F0A4.1020204@visi.com> <3F940340.7020008@comcast.net> Message-ID: <200310201153.32658.bmaas@open-techsys.com> Good suggestion Todd. I'm glad I finished reading all my mail before adding you to the killfile ;-) I had a capacitor blow on a 4 month old motherboard earlier this year. I started to smell smoke and started sniffing around the computers. After pulling the power cords out of the back of Eridor I got the case open just in time to see two capacitors fading from a nice bright orange. Anyways, previous posts have covered most of the stuff I was thinking of (power supply in its death throws, flaky RAM / swap space, over heating CPU, etc). A couple other things to try: - If you're using an off-motherboard IDE, SCSI or video card, reseat it and make sure its not popping lose, this goes for any PCI/ISA/AGP cards, but these are usually the culprits. - Run memtest86 (http://www.memtest86.com) on your machine and see if it finds anyhting - Could very well be a driver issue, but it sounds like this just started on its own (without, say, a recent kernel recompile or distro update). If it is, try rolling back - If you've recently changed compilers, try going back to a slightly older version and recompiling anything you compiled recently. I had a bunch of trouble with GCC v3.3.1 causing segmentation faults on AMD hardware. - Clean all the dust bunnies out of your case, especially around the CPU and CPU fans. Dust bunnies screw up air flow and also act like big heat sinks The last few probably don't apply to a work machine, but I'll include for completeness: - If you've overclocked your CPU, AGP bus, main bus, PCI bus, etc. try returning them to "factory" settings - Make sure you aren't overloading your power supply. Yeah I know, this is doesn't happen as often as it used to. Still, add a hard drive, CD-ROM burner, DVD, - If you've overclocked your CPU, AGP bus, main bus, PCI bus, etc. try returning them to "factory" settings - If you're STILL overclocking your CPU, AGP bus, main bus, PCI bus, etc. try returning them to "factory" settings -- Ben Maas - Technology Architect Open Technology Systems, LLC ----------------------------------------------------------- eMail: bmaas@open-techsys.com Web: http://www.open-techsys.com Phone: 952.448.3121 Fax: 952.448.4944 Cell: 612.743.3674 On Monday 20 October 2003 10:46 am, Todd Young wrote: > Along the line of looking at hardware. Look at the capcitors on the > motherboard. Most of them have an "X" in the metal on the top. If the > tops are buldging then the capacitors are fried and you are looking at > other issues if you continue to use the motherboard. > > I'm not sure how many motherboards this affects, but I know for a fact > it affects IBM Intellistation EPro machines, circa manufacture 2001-2. > > There was a batch of bad capacitors that hit the market, I know IBM used > them, but I'm not sure how many other manufacturers did. > > Sam MacDonald wrote: > > On the hardware end look at the power supply. A power supply thats' > > going bad will do funny things like rebooting. A short in your power > > cable could cause real problems. Wake on LAN is another thing to look > > at if it's enabled. I also had a dead SparQ drive cause my machine to > > not boot on a cold start and I think it caused some reboots. > > > > If you fed a Gremlin after midnight you may want to check your kitchen > > :-D > > > > Remember if you had a bad power surge or lightning, and something got > > fried, home owners insurance "should" cover a new or part of a new > > computer :-) My mother in law got a new P4 with all the cool stuff > > after a lightning strike took out her modem and sound board. > > > > Sam. > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bmaas at open-techsys.com Mon Oct 20 11:56:41 2003 From: bmaas at open-techsys.com (Ben Maas) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] random reboots In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200310201156.41490.bmaas@open-techsys.com> Not necessarily, this strengthens the posibility of memory and/or swap space problems to me. In otherwords, some big JPG in the background means more memory swaps which means a better chance to hit the bad spot. Course, you're right though, could very well be software or compiler related as well. On Monday 20 October 2003 11:26 am, Johnny Fulcrum wrote: > Seems to be software related! ever since I changed my desktop backgrounds > back to something simple (solid color) it has not rebooted. As soon as > I'm done building mod-ssl apache, I'm going to play around with the > backgrounds and see if I can get it to reboot at random! > > I haven't touched the hardware in this box for like ever! > > On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:09:29 -0500 (CDT), Brian wrote: > > On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Todd Young wrote: > >> There was a batch of bad capacitors that hit the market, I know IBM used > >> them, but I'm not sure how many other manufacturers did. > > > > Intel used them for awhile as well. I don't remember the chipset, but if > > you've got a PIII Intel board 700-1Ghz you may experience this problam. > > > > As for your reboot problem, any chance you're overworking your power > > supply? I once had too many HDs hooked up to my 300watt and it didn't > > occur to me for a week why my computer was rebooting constantly. > > > > -Brian > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Ben Maas - Technology Architect Open Technology Systems, LLC ----------------------------------------------------------- eMail: bmaas@open-techsys.com Web: http://www.open-techsys.com Phone: 952.448.3121 Fax: 952.448.4944 Cell: 612.743.3674 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nate at refried.org Mon Oct 20 14:22:11 2003 From: nate at refried.org (nate@refried.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How did the installfest go? Message-ID: <20031020192211.GA13968@refried.org> We're curious on #tclug. How did the installfest on Saturday go? Nate _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Mon Oct 20 14:25:25 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] random reboots In-Reply-To: <1066659825.15243.24.camel@lotsa> References: <1066659825.15243.24.camel@lotsa> Message-ID: <20031020142525.1f2eadcd.sfertch@real-time.com> On 20 Oct 2003 09:23:45 -0500 Tom Penney wrote: > On Mon, 2003-10-20 at 08:58, Johnny Fulcrum wrote: > > Best place to start looking for problem when experiencing random > > reboot is ....? > > > > 100 people surveyed, top 5 answers on the board... > > > > survey says: > > The only time I have had this problem it was a cooling issue, > Processor. > Not contradicting, as I haven't experienced this personally with a CPU. It's always been a video processor for me that forces a reboot of it's own accord. -- Shawn The difficult we do today; the impossible take a little longer. Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net Mon Oct 20 14:32:27 2003 From: scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How did the installfest go? In-Reply-To: <20031020192211.GA13968@refried.org>; from nate@refried.org on Mon, Oct 20, 2003 at 02:22:11PM -0500 References: <20031020192211.GA13968@refried.org> Message-ID: <20031020143227.A27621@thinkunix.net> was more of a lan party then an installfest. lots of gamers there but we did have a few vampires who wanted to stay out of the beautiful sunny 70 degree weather for some good ol' linux. personally I enjoyed watching The Matrix on that huge screen at Coffman. :) A huge thanks to Ben Kochie and whomever else set this up. The space was fantastic and we should definitely try to have another installfest there, say during the deep cold of winter. I'm sure we'll get a better turnout and pack that place. Parking was very easy too as the underground ramp right behind Coffman made for a short walk. I was there from noon until 8pm and only paid $5 for parking, which I think was really cheap. The pizza was great too! nate@refried.org wrote: > We're curious on #tclug. How did the installfest on Saturday go? -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Mon Oct 20 14:55:57 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: random reboots Message-ID: <3F943DCD.7060904@comcast.net> I remember the original poster stating that he/she hasn't opened the case in some time, and that a different background stopped the random reboots. Another lister suggested this could be because the different background doesn't require use of swap and or memory. (At least it was something like that.) Therefore, I submit that perhaps the person should open the case and reseat components, especially the RAM. Using proper static safeguard procedures of course. I recently was getting memory errors with a machine that has 4 - 32Meg SIMMs. I tested all 4 in their original config and got and error. I removed two and tested with no errors. Then started swapping them around and testing and got no errors. Finally, I reinstalled all the SIMMS and tested with no errors. I know from experience that sometimes SIMMs and DIMMs will flake out and a simple "pull and reseat" will solve the problem. -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From JAustad at temgweb.com Mon Oct 20 15:09:05 2003 From: JAustad at temgweb.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] reset a pci card from the command line Message-ID: <288FAF5565A1A74EA5E35C39E7EE1D420A1BDC81@mail.temgweb.com> Anyone know how to do this? I have an evil Digi PRI card that likes to get hosed and it requires me to reboot the box. I've tried unloading and reloading the module, but that doesn't help. Is there any command I can use to reset the bus that it's on or the card itself? -jay _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erik at andersonfam.org Mon Oct 20 16:06:01 2003 From: erik at andersonfam.org (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] adding loopback interface? Message-ID: <3F944E39.4020709@andersonfam.org> Hello all - I'm working on a customized linux distro, which will be run in a non-networked environment...but I have a few programs that need the loopback interface. How do I go about adding it? I'm running a customized version of redhat 7.3 if that matters... If you need any more information, please let me know.. Thanks! -Erik _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Mon Oct 20 16:41:04 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] adding loopback interface? In-Reply-To: <3F944E39.4020709@andersonfam.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Erik Anderson wrote: > Hello all - I'm working on a customized linux distro, which will be run > in a non-networked environment...but I have a few programs that need the > loopback interface. How do I go about adding it? I'm running a > customized version of redhat 7.3 if that matters... does /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-lo exist? if it does then a simple ifup lo as root should do the trick i would think. Munir Nassar RedConcepts.NET http://redconcepts.net/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kbongers at mninter.net Mon Oct 20 19:27:35 2003 From: kbongers at mninter.net (Karl Bongers) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] adding loopback interface? In-Reply-To: References: <3F944E39.4020709@andersonfam.org> Message-ID: <20031021002734.GA724@duron.turboland.com> Or something like this: ifconfig lo up 127.0.0.1 netmask 255.0.0.0 route add -net 127.0.0.0 netmask 255.0.0.0 dev lo To tear down: route del -net 127.0.0.0 netmask 255.0.0.0 ifconfig lo down On Mon, Oct 20, 2003 at 04:41:04PM -0500, Munir Nassar wrote: > On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Erik Anderson wrote: > > > Hello all - I'm working on a customized linux distro, which will be run > > in a non-networked environment...but I have a few programs that need the > > loopback interface. How do I go about adding it? I'm running a > > customized version of redhat 7.3 if that matters... > > does /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-lo exist? > > if it does then a simple ifup lo as root should do the trick i would > think. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Mon Oct 20 19:45:22 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] random reboots References: <3F93F0A4.1020204@visi.com> <3F940340.7020008@comcast.net> <200310201153.32658.bmaas@open-techsys.com> Message-ID: <005101c3976c$9bdb79a0$0201a8c0@brinstar> Ben Maas writes: > I had a capacitor blow on a 4 month old motherboard earlier this > year. I started to smell smoke and started sniffing around the > computers. After pulling the power cords out of the back of Eridor I > got the case open just in time to see two capacitors fading from a > nice bright orange. I had that happen on an Abit BP6. The board still worked for at least six months after that. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Mon Oct 20 22:14:29 2003 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (johnny fulcrum) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wayyy OT .... I've had enough. That's it! Message-ID: ok. I've had my fill. My wife is a football (armeican football) fan. Over the top football fan (chief of Kansas City...). THIS IS NO JOKE! I had to put up the Direct TV dish with a broken foot (no Joke - I was on the roof with a cast - my crutches on the ground while I set the dish...). "we" have NFL ticket - and I hate it. I have to watch the kid (I DON'T hate that part) whilst she sits on the couch all sunday (and monday nights) watching big dudes throw pigskin around. HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!! can we have a install fest in my basement during football games? with all the kids who we want to know more than sports? :P -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erik at andersonfam.org Mon Oct 20 22:53:23 2003 From: erik at andersonfam.org (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] adding loopback interface? In-Reply-To: <20031021002734.GA724@duron.turboland.com> References: <3F944E39.4020709@andersonfam.org> <20031021002734.GA724@duron.turboland.com> Message-ID: <3F94ADB3.8060507@andersonfam.org> Thanks for the replies...I'll give them a try @ work tomorrow! Karl Bongers wrote: > Or something like this: > ifconfig lo up 127.0.0.1 netmask 255.0.0.0 > route add -net 127.0.0.0 netmask 255.0.0.0 dev lo > > To tear down: > route del -net 127.0.0.0 netmask 255.0.0.0 > ifconfig lo down > > > On Mon, Oct 20, 2003 at 04:41:04PM -0500, Munir Nassar wrote: > >>On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Erik Anderson wrote: >> >> >>>Hello all - I'm working on a customized linux distro, which will be run >>>in a non-networked environment...but I have a few programs that need the >>>loopback interface. How do I go about adding it? I'm running a >>>customized version of redhat 7.3 if that matters... >> >>does /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-lo exist? >> >>if it does then a simple ifup lo as root should do the trick i would >>think. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Mon Oct 20 23:13:51 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wayyy OT .... I've had enough. That's it! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F94B27F.5090109@visi.com> I'm with you mate, but you need to remember "when football is on the web is fast". Sam _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Mon Oct 20 23:24:42 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] random reboots In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1066710281.16426.17.camel@bigtime> On Mon, 2003-10-20 at 08:58, Johnny Fulcrum wrote: > Best place to start looking for problem when experiencing random reboot is > ....? > > 100 people surveyed, top 5 answers on the board... > > survey says: First thing's first, go into your BIOS and reset it to the 'failsafe' or default or whatever settings. Don't overclock/tweak ANYTHING. I have an Abit KT7-RAID that got handed down to me because it was flaking out and the owner just gave up and bought a new machine. Abit is known for being overclocker/tweaker friendly. I eventually determined I can't really bump up ANY of the many timing options at all without getting constant hangs. In fact I have to undervolt the CPU by .05v to get it rock solid. (Athlon 900, yes, big ass heatsink, thermal grease, case full of fans, still barely keeps cool enough on a hot day...) If I even bump the FSB speed up by a single mhz it gets really unstable again. The caps look really unhappy, maybe I should replace those... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031020/6153cd57/attachment.pgp From gkrueger at cleosci.com Mon Oct 20 23:28:21 2003 From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (gkrueger) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wayyy OT .... I've had enough. That's it! References: Message-ID: <3F94B5E5.9010600@cleosci.com> Hey! There's nothing wrong with football! It's one of three truly great sports (the others being gymnastics and volleyball) ;) Without football, there'd be no point in having the weather turn to Fall! (Besides, what would I coach?) Garrett johnny fulcrum wrote: > > ok. I've had my fill. My wife is a football (armeican football) > fan. Over the top football fan (chief of Kansas City...). > > THIS IS NO JOKE! > > > I had to put up the Direct TV dish with a broken foot (no Joke - I > was on the roof with a cast - my crutches on the ground while I set > the dish...). "we" have NFL ticket - and I hate it. I have to watch > the kid (I DON'T hate that part) whilst she sits on the couch all > sunday (and monday nights) watching big dudes throw pigskin around. > > > HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > > can we have a install fest in my basement during football games? with > all the kids who we want to know more than sports? > > > :P > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From loren at lorenburlingame.com Tue Oct 21 02:23:09 2003 From: loren at lorenburlingame.com (Loren H. Burlingame) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wayyy OT .... I've had enough. That's it! In-Reply-To: <3F94B5E5.9010600@cleosci.com> References: <3F94B5E5.9010600@cleosci.com> Message-ID: <3F94DEDD.7020608@lorenburlingame.com> gkrueger wrote: > Hey! > > There's nothing wrong with football! It's one of three truly great > sports (the others being gymnastics and volleyball) ;) Without > football, there'd be no point in having the weather turn to Fall! > (Besides, what would I coach?) > > Garrett > Garrett you dork. Football is for weenies. LB _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hoff0438 at umn.edu Tue Oct 21 07:11:56 2003 From: hoff0438 at umn.edu (John Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wayyy OT .... I've had enough. That's it! In-Reply-To: <3F94B5E5.9010600@cleosci.com> Message-ID: <000f01c397cc$85d7f0b0$2900a8c0@aurvandil> *AHEM* I think you forget hockey, the sport of sports, the reason for winter and snow and ice. And yes, you too could coach hockey! (Well, assuming you can skate...) John > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of gkrueger > Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 23:28 > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] wayyy OT .... I've had enough. That's it! > > > Hey! > > There's nothing wrong with football! It's one of three truly great > sports (the others being gymnastics and volleyball) ;) Without > football, there'd be no point in having the weather turn to Fall! > (Besides, what would I coach?) > > Garrett > > johnny fulcrum wrote: > > > > > ok. I've had my fill. My wife is a football (armeican football) > > fan. Over the top football fan (chief of Kansas City...). > > > > THIS IS NO JOKE! > > > > > > I had to put up the Direct TV dish with a broken foot (no Joke - I > > was on the roof with a cast - my crutches on the ground while I set > > the dish...). "we" have NFL ticket - and I hate it. I > have to watch > > the kid (I DON'T hate that part) whilst she sits on the couch all > > sunday (and monday nights) watching big dudes throw pigskin around. > > > > > > HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > > > > > can we have a install fest in my basement during football > games? with > > all the kids who we want to know more than sports? > > > > > > :P > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Tue Oct 21 07:51:14 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wayyy OT .... I've had enough. That's it! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F952BC2.6030707@visi.com> Religion was called the "panacea of the masses" at one time. Now it's TV and Sports, third party participation. "Keep them watching garbage and they wont see the nasty things we do to them." I have to believe that's what the politicians are thinking when I see TV shows. Cancel the cable or dish subscription, turn off the TV. Read to each other, go for a walk, make love, anything, just stop participating in the third person. Sam. P.S. As a guy I hope she was very, very great full you risked your life to put up the dish. johnny fulcrum wrote: > > ok. I've had my fill. My wife is a football (armeican football) > fan. Over the top football fan (chief of Kansas City...). > > THIS IS NO JOKE! > > > I had to put up the Direct TV dish with a broken foot (no Joke - I > was on the roof with a cast - my crutches on the ground while I set > the dish...). "we" have NFL ticket - and I hate it. I have to watch > the kid (I DON'T hate that part) whilst she sits on the couch all > sunday (and monday nights) watching big dudes throw pigskin around. > > > HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > > can we have a install fest in my basement during football games? with > all the kids who we want to know more than sports? > > > :P > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rware at interplastic.com Tue Oct 21 08:01:48 2003 From: rware at interplastic.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wayyy OT .... I've had enough. That's it! Message-ID: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B269@ipserver2.interplastic.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Sam MacDonald [mailto:smac@visi.com] > Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 7:51 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] wayyy OT .... I've had enough. That's it! > > > Religion was called the "panacea of the masses" at one time. > Now it's > TV and Sports, third party participation. "Keep them watching garbage > and they wont see the nasty things we do to them." I have > to believe > that's what the politicians are thinking when I see TV shows. > > Cancel the cable or dish subscription, turn off the TV. Read to each > other, go for a walk, make love, anything, just stop > participating in > the third person. Save $40 plus bucks a month and have a better life. Couldn't agree more. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kent at structural-wood.com Tue Oct 21 08:14:44 2003 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wayyy OT .... I've had enough. That's it! References: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B269@ipserver2.interplastic.com> Message-ID: <3F953144.4000004@structural-wood.com> Ryan Ware wrote: > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Sam MacDonald [mailto:smac@visi.com] >>Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 7:51 AM >>To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>Subject: Re: [TCLUG] wayyy OT .... I've had enough. That's it! >> >> >>Religion was called the "panacea of the masses" at one time. >>Now it's >>TV and Sports, third party participation. "Keep them watching garbage >>and they wont see the nasty things we do to them." I have >>to believe >>that's what the politicians are thinking when I see TV shows. >> >>Cancel the cable or dish subscription, turn off the TV. Read to each >>other, go for a walk, make love, anything, just stop >>participating in >>the third person. > > > Save $40 plus bucks a month and have a better life. Couldn't agree more. > Take the $40 and get a better internet connection... Duh! _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com Tue Oct 21 08:18:50 2003 From: Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com (Lansing, Dan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] Mailing list offline Oct 23, 2003 from 0900 until 1500 Message-ID: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D3752@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> Almost a whole day with out tclug mails??? I'm scared! Mommy! (please don't make me actually work!) Dan Lansing -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Bob Tanner Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 10:57 PM To: tclug-announce@mn-linux.org Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] Mailing list offline Oct 23, 2003 from 0900 until 1500 Importance: High -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The tclug mailing list will be offline on Oct 23, 2003 from 0900 until 1500 for an upgrade of: MTA Spamassassin Malware scanner Mailman The secondary MX hosts will hold everyones posts until after the MTA upgrade. If you have any questions, email me off-list. Thanks. - -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/lK6dfPGnCSzBsogRAtOqAJ4iNeUyUrP+5GqEtEDbbZ+6gRRnSACfUfzI HIxEvhRmpkAuTaQ96A5xwXA= =tLA1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Announcements - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-announce mailing list tclug-announce@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rware at interplastic.com Tue Oct 21 08:18:51 2003 From: rware at interplastic.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wayyy OT .... I've had enough. That's it! Message-ID: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B26D@ipserver2.interplastic.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Kent Schumacher [mailto:kent@structural-wood.com] > Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 8:15 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] wayyy OT .... I've had enough. That's it! > > > > > Ryan Ware wrote: > > > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: Sam MacDonald [mailto:smac@visi.com] > >>Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 7:51 AM > >>To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > >>Subject: Re: [TCLUG] wayyy OT .... I've had enough. That's it! > >> > >> > >>Religion was called the "panacea of the masses" at one time. > >>Now it's > >>TV and Sports, third party participation. "Keep them > watching garbage > >>and they wont see the nasty things we do to them." I have > >>to believe > >>that's what the politicians are thinking when I see TV shows. > >> > >>Cancel the cable or dish subscription, turn off the TV. > Read to each > >>other, go for a walk, make love, anything, just stop > >>participating in > >>the third person. > > > > > > Save $40 plus bucks a month and have a better life. > Couldn't agree more. > > > > Take the $40 and get a better internet connection... Duh! But there you are back at 3rd person participation :) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Tue Oct 21 08:26:37 2003 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wayyy OT .... I've had enough. That's it! In-Reply-To: <3F952BC2.6030707@visi.com> References: <3F952BC2.6030707@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031021132637.GD32149@wookimus.net> On Tue, Oct 21, 2003 at 07:51:14AM -0500, Sam MacDonald wrote: > Cancel the cable or dish subscription, turn off the TV. Read to each > other, go for a walk, make love, anything, just stop participating > in the third person. I concur. My wife and I canceled our cable subscription once we realized that we were TLC addicts. We would spend hours watching "Trading Spaces" and "Junkyard Wars" and little time talking to each other. We still have a television with poor reception, since I have yet to put up a roof antenna. We still find time to watch "Angel", "Scrubs", and "Friends", but we usually tape them and watch them on the weekends. I enjoy football, as does my wife, but it is not the center of our lives. ;-) -- Chad Walstrom http://www.wookimus.net/ assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031021/adea4d99/attachment.pgp From nate at refried.org Tue Oct 21 08:57:26 2003 From: nate at refried.org (nate@refried.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wayyy OT .... I've had enough. That's it! In-Reply-To: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B26D@ipserver2.interplastic.com> References: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B26D@ipserver2.interplastic.com> Message-ID: <20031021135726.GA21529@refried.org> On Tue, Oct 21, 2003 at 08:18:51AM -0500, Ryan Ware wrote: > > From: Kent Schumacher [mailto:kent@structural-wood.com] > > Ryan Ware wrote: > > > Save $40 plus bucks a month and have a better life. Couldn't > > > agree more. > > > > Take the $40 and get a better internet connection... Duh! > > But there you are back at 3rd person participation :) Somehow, just by replying to the previous post, I think you're contradicting yourself. Nate _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Tue Oct 21 09:17:27 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wayyy OT .... I've had enough. That's it! In-Reply-To: <20031021132637.GD32149@wookimus.net> References: <3F952BC2.6030707@visi.com> <20031021132637.GD32149@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <20031021091727.34a7a132.sfertch@real-time.com> Haven't had cable in years, and can't justify the cost for it or satellite for the about 4 hours of TV we watch a week. Hidden roof antenna works just fine for how little we watch. We do watch movies (VHS/DVD) every couple of weeks or so though. Far more important and better things to be doing than veggin' out in front of the TV for hours at a time, days on end. Life'll pass you by to quickly doing that. -- Shawn The difficult we do today; the impossible take a little longer. Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gkrueger at cleosci.com Tue Oct 21 10:12:55 2003 From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (gkrueger) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wayyy OT .... I've had enough. That's it! References: <3F94B5E5.9010600@cleosci.com> <3F94DEDD.7020608@lorenburlingame.com> Message-ID: <3F954CF7.3000701@cleosci.com> :) :) :) :P Hahahah! Loren H. Burlingame wrote: > > > Garrett you dork. > > Football is for weenies. > > LB > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gkrueger at cleosci.com Tue Oct 21 10:15:15 2003 From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (gkrueger) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wayyy OT .... I've had enough. That's it! References: <000f01c397cc$85d7f0b0$2900a8c0@aurvandil> Message-ID: <3F954D83.1020106@cleosci.com> Well... for those of you who actually like cold, ice, and winter, I suppose hockey should have been included :) I, however, completely detest winter, cold weather, and everything that goes with it! I can skate, but I only do rollerblades 'cause it's a warm weather version ;) GK John Hoffoss wrote: >*AHEM* > >I think you forget hockey, the sport of sports, the reason for winter and >snow and ice. And yes, you too could coach hockey! (Well, assuming you can >skate...) > >John > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gkrueger at cleosci.com Tue Oct 21 10:20:43 2003 From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (gkrueger) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wayyy OT .... I've had enough. That's it! References: <000f01c397cc$85d7f0b0$2900a8c0@aurvandil> Message-ID: <3F954ECB.1010108@cleosci.com> Well... for those of you who actually like cold, ice, and winter, I suppose hockey should have been included... :) I, however, completely detest winter, cold weather, and everything that goes with it! ( I can skate about average 'cause I only do rollerblades -- it's a warm weather version, ya' know) ;) GK John Hoffoss wrote: >*AHEM* > >I think you forget hockey, the sport of sports, the reason for winter and >snow and ice. And yes, you too could coach hockey! (Well, assuming you can >skate...) > >John > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From markdeb.browne at comcast.net Tue Oct 21 08:14:01 2003 From: markdeb.browne at comcast.net (Mark Browne) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wayyy OT .... I've had enough. That's it! References: <3F952BC2.6030707@visi.com> Message-ID: <006001c397d5$32201f20$1e02a8c0@zippy> Religion was called the "panacea of the masses" at one time. Now it's TV and Sports, third party participation. "Keep them watching garbage and they wont see the nasty things we do to them." I have to believe that's what the politicians are thinking when I see TV shows. Cancel the cable or dish subscription, turn off the TV. Read to each other, go for a walk, make love, anything, just stop participating in the third person. Sam. I have stopped watching TV a few years ago. After some initial withdrawal symptoms, I don't miss it at all. I heartily recommend kicking the TV habit and finding something better to do with your time. When you quit watching TV, you *will* have more time. Use it wisely! Mark Browne _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bmaas at open-techsys.com Tue Oct 21 12:01:50 2003 From: bmaas at open-techsys.com (Ben Maas) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] random reboots In-Reply-To: <005101c3976c$9bdb79a0$0201a8c0@brinstar> References: <200310201153.32658.bmaas@open-techsys.com> <005101c3976c$9bdb79a0$0201a8c0@brinstar> Message-ID: <200310211201.50566.bmaas@open-techsys.com> On Monday 20 October 2003 07:45 pm, David Phillips wrote: > Ben Maas writes: > > I had a capacitor blow on a 4 month old motherboard earlier this > > year. I started to smell smoke and started sniffing around the > > computers. After pulling the power cords out of the back of Eridor I > > got the case open just in time to see two capacitors fading from a > > nice bright orange. > > I had that happen on an Abit BP6. The board still worked for at least six > months after that. Yeah, this was an Abit board well (K7A-RAID maybe?), but this one didn't work after it blew. It cascaded into two other capacitors, rupturing the first one. Processor, RAM, and all cards were recoverable though, so at least wasn't a complete loss. -- Ben Maas - Technology Architect Open Technology Systems, LLC ----------------------------------------------------------- eMail: bmaas@open-techsys.com Web: http://www.open-techsys.com Phone: 952.448.3121 Fax: 952.448.4944 Cell: 612.743.3674 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tanner at mn-linux.org Mon Oct 20 22:57:15 2003 From: tanner at mn-linux.org (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] Mailing list offline Oct 23, 2003 from 0900 until 1500 Message-ID: <200310202257.17749@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The tclug mailing list will be offline on Oct 23, 2003 from 0900 until 1500 for an upgrade of: MTA Spamassassin Malware scanner Mailman The secondary MX hosts will hold everyones posts until after the MTA upgrade. If you have any questions, email me off-list. Thanks. - -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/lK6dfPGnCSzBsogRAtOqAJ4iNeUyUrP+5GqEtEDbbZ+6gRRnSACfUfzI HIxEvhRmpkAuTaQ96A5xwXA= =tLA1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Announcements - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-announce mailing list tclug-announce@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blutgens at us-admins.com Tue Oct 21 15:22:59 2003 From: blutgens at us-admins.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wayyy OT .... I've had enough. That's it! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1066767779.4896.27.camel@wtf> On Mon, 2003-10-20 at 22:14, johnny fulcrum wrote: > ok. I've had my fill. My wife is a football (armeican football) fan. > Over the top football fan (chief of Kansas City...). > > THIS IS NO JOKE! > > > I had to put up the Direct TV dish with a broken foot (no Joke - I was on > the roof with a cast - my crutches on the ground while I set the > dish...). "we" have NFL ticket - and I hate it. I have to watch the kid > (I DON'T hate that part) whilst she sits on the couch all sunday (and > monday nights) watching big dudes throw pigskin around. Perhaps you should find "something else" to occupy your wife with...... > > > HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > > can we have a install fest in my basement during football games? with all > the kids who we want to know more than sports? > > > :P > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Tue Oct 21 15:22:39 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apache SSL and iptables NAT? Message-ID: <20031021152239.00003280.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Ok, I know that I can only have one SSL site per IP address with Apache: http://www.modssl.org/docs/2.8/ssl_faq.html#ToC47 Unfortunately, my web server is running inside a private LAN on IP 192.168.0.3. I have 5 public IP addresses that all web traffic routes to this box for the time being. What I'm wondering is, can I give this server multiple private IPs (it's a small network so there are plenty available!) and use iptables to NAT traffic to a different private IP address (but which still routes to the same physical web server) based on which public IP address traffic is coming in on? Here's essentially what I want to do in Apache: NameVirtualHost 192.168.0.3:443 NameVirtualHost 192.168.0.103:443 NameVirtualHost 192.168.0.104:443 NameVirtualHost 192.168.0.105:443 NameVirtualHost 192.168.0.106:443 ServerName www.site1.com SSLEngine on etc. ServerName www.site2.com SSLEngine on etc. ServerName www.site3.com SSLEngine on etc. etc. And have site1 DNS'd to public ip 24.16.106.242, site2 to 24.16.106.243, site3 to 24.16.106.244, etc. And finally have the firewall say: SSL coming in on 24.16.106.242? NAT to 192.168.0.3 SSL coming in on 24.16.106.243? NAT to 192.168.0.103 SSL coming in on 24.16.106.244? NAT to 192.168.0.104 etc. The only part I don't know how to do is the iptables part. Is there a way to filter on which of my public IP addresses the traffic is coming in on? Or is there a better non-convoluted way to do this? How do other folks do Apache SSL for virtual hosts? Thx, Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chad at bitstream.net Tue Oct 21 16:22:03 2003 From: chad at bitstream.net (Chad Juettner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apache SSL and iptables NAT? In-Reply-To: <20031021152239.00003280.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> References: <20031021152239.00003280.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: <3F95A37B.3020202@bitstream.net> Josh Trutwin wrote: >SSL coming in on 24.16.106.242? NAT to 192.168.0.3 >SSL coming in on 24.16.106.243? NAT to 192.168.0.103 >SSL coming in on 24.16.106.244? NAT to 192.168.0.104 >etc. > >The only part I don't know how to do is the iptables part. Is there a way to filter on which of my public IP addresses the traffic is coming in on? > >Or is there a better non-convoluted way to do this? How do other folks do Apache SSL for virtual hosts? > > Try this: iptables -A INPUT -d 24.16.106.242 -j ACCEPT iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -d 24.16.106.242 --dport 443 -j DNAT --to 192.168.0.3 That should do the trick. --Chad _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net Tue Oct 21 17:48:35 2003 From: scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apache SSL and iptables NAT? In-Reply-To: <20031021152239.00003280.josh@trutwins.homeip.net>; from josh@trutwins.homeip.net on Tue, Oct 21, 2003 at 03:22:39PM -0500 References: <20031021152239.00003280.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: <20031021174835.A20327@thinkunix.net> Josh Trutwin wrote: > I know that I can only have one SSL site per IP address with Apache: > http://www.modssl.org/docs/2.8/ssl_faq.html#ToC47 > > Unfortunately, my web server is running inside a private LAN on IP 192.168.0.3. > > I have 5 public IP addresses that all web traffic routes to this box for the time being. > > What I'm wondering is, can I give this server multiple private IPs (it's a small network so there are plenty available!) and use iptables to NAT traffic to a different private IP address (but which still routes to the same physical web server) based on which public IP address traffic is coming in on? yes, just add aliases for the range of private IP's you want to nat to on eth0 on your inside box. Add something like this to your boot scripts, or if you're on a RH based box just create /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0:0 (start with a copy of ifcfg-eth0 and just edit that): ifconfig eth0:0 192.168.0.3 netmask 255.255.255.0 up ifconfig eth0:1 192.168.0.103 netmask 255.255.255.0 up ifconfig eth0:2 192.168.0.104 netmask 255.255.255.0 up and so on.... for debian you would add them to the /etc/network/interfaces file. > SSL coming in on 24.16.106.242? NAT to 192.168.0.3 > SSL coming in on 24.16.106.243? NAT to 192.168.0.103 > SSL coming in on 24.16.106.244? NAT to 192.168.0.104 > etc. > > The only part I don't know how to do is the iptables part. Is there a way to filter on which of my public IP addresses the traffic is coming in on? Chad already posted the iptables rule you'll need to add to accomplish the port forwarding. -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Tue Oct 21 18:24:37 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apache SSL and iptables NAT? In-Reply-To: <3F95A37B.3020202@bitstream.net> References: <20031021152239.00003280.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> <3F95A37B.3020202@bitstream.net> Message-ID: <20031021182437.00001220.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> > Try this: > > iptables -A INPUT -d 24.16.106.242 -j ACCEPT > iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -d 24.16.106.242 --dport 443 -j DNAT --to > 192.168.0.3 > > That should do the trick. Doh, I tried this, except on the FORWARD chain. And by then the destination had changed to 192.168.0.3... Thanks, Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rummey at black-hole.com Tue Oct 21 21:18:27 2003 From: rummey at black-hole.com (Michael D. Cassano) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Netstat Segmentation Fault Message-ID: <005b01c39842$c820eb90$ea7bfea9@rummey> All of a sudden three of my linux machines that are connected to the Internet are getting very wierd on me. SSH works, apache works, sendmail doesn't work, named doesn't work. All I can say is that when I do netstat -tua I get "Segmentation Fault". Any clue here? Mike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031021/a6440579/attachment.html From tanner at real-time.com Tue Oct 21 23:29:50 2003 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Netstat Segmentation Fault In-Reply-To: <005b01c39842$c820eb90$ea7bfea9@rummey> References: <005b01c39842$c820eb90$ea7bfea9@rummey> Message-ID: <200310212329.50119@Twin.Cities.Linux.Users.Group-www.mn-linux.org> On Tuesday 21 October 2003 09:18 pm, Michael D. Cassano wrote: > All of a sudden three of my linux machines that are connected to the > Internet are getting very wierd on me. > > SSH works, apache works, sendmail doesn't work, named doesn't work. > > All I can say is that when I do netstat -tua I get "Segmentation Fault". > > Any clue here? > > Mike Did you check for rootkits? If it's a good kit, you'll have to boot from something like a bbc and run it that way, cuz the'll have kernel mods in that will prevent rootkit from running appropriately. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From austad at signal15.com Tue Oct 21 23:59:20 2003 From: austad at signal15.com (Jay Austad) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Netstat Segmentation Fault In-Reply-To: <200310212329.50119@Twin.Cities.Linux.Users.Group-www.mn-linux.org> References: <005b01c39842$c820eb90$ea7bfea9@rummey> <200310212329.50119@Twin.Cities.Linux.Users.Group-www.mn-linux.org> Message-ID: <7F41C44C-044C-11D8-A671-00039395531E@signal15.com> If my netstat started acting strangely, especially on more than one machine, I would definitely assume I got hacked. Try using chkrootkit. Like Bill said, you may have to boot from a boot cd to detect them. I think there's a security version of knoppix that has stuff to investigate boxes, you might try that. -jay On Oct 21, 2003, at 11:29 PM, Bob Tanner wrote: > On Tuesday 21 October 2003 09:18 pm, Michael D. Cassano wrote: >> All of a sudden three of my linux machines that are connected to the >> Internet are getting very wierd on me. >> >> SSH works, apache works, sendmail doesn't work, named doesn't work. >> >> All I can say is that when I do netstat -tua I get "Segmentation >> Fault". >> >> Any clue here? >> >> Mike > > Did you check for rootkits? > > If it's a good kit, you'll have to boot from something like a bbc and > run it > that way, cuz the'll have kernel mods in that will prevent rootkit from > running appropriately. > > -- > Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 > Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rummey at black-hole.com Wed Oct 22 00:31:37 2003 From: rummey at black-hole.com (Michael D. Cassano) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Netstat Segmentation Fault References: <005b01c39842$c820eb90$ea7bfea9@rummey> <200310212329.50119@Twin.Cities.Linux.Users.Group-www.mn-linux.org> Message-ID: <047b01c3985d$c3c90ee0$ea7bfea9@rummey> Yup, it was rootkits. Spent the last many hours trying to fight for my machines back, but its pretty useless. Lots of kernel mods and etc. chattr was my friend for a while... but now I'll just settle with the lucky fact that no data/configuration was deleted and reinstall. Thanks, Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Tanner" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 11:29 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Netstat Segmentation Fault > On Tuesday 21 October 2003 09:18 pm, Michael D. Cassano wrote: > > All of a sudden three of my linux machines that are connected to the > > Internet are getting very wierd on me. > > > > SSH works, apache works, sendmail doesn't work, named doesn't work. > > > > All I can say is that when I do netstat -tua I get "Segmentation Fault". > > > > Any clue here? > > > > Mike > > Did you check for rootkits? > > If it's a good kit, you'll have to boot from something like a bbc and run it > that way, cuz the'll have kernel mods in that will prevent rootkit from > running appropriately. > > -- > Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 > Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From skodak at mail.cs.umn.edu Wed Oct 22 01:16:56 2003 From: skodak at mail.cs.umn.edu (Sreekumar Kodakara) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Support for two ethernet port Message-ID: Hi, Do we need to compile the kernel to have two ethernet ports working in the machine or is there something else which one has to do to get two ethernet port working? I have a RH 6.2 machine. One ethernet port is present on the mother board and is working fine. I have to add one ethernet card to the system. Thanks for the help Sreekumar _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Wed Oct 22 01:36:54 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Netstat Segmentation Fault In-Reply-To: <200310212329.50119@Twin.Cities.Linux.Users.Group-www.mn-linux.org> References: <005b01c39842$c820eb90$ea7bfea9@rummey> <200310212329.50119@Twin.Cities.Linux.Users.Group-www.mn-linux.org> Message-ID: <3F962586.7090406@visi.com> So I look up "rootkit" on google. The clowns have a website where they distribute the bits and they teach classes in how to build the kernels to use it. What a pain in the ass some people are, I mean it takes a lot of spite to even think up such a thing. Some one tell me, what, in these poor, ignorant, bastards childhoods caused them to think this way. I'd like to give them 3 rounds with George Foreman as a gift just for having the thought of this kind of BS. Hmmmm.... maybe we could get them to hack http://www.bigredmachine.com ;-) one of my more radical bookmarks, the calendar page is great. Sam > >Did you check for rootkits? > >If it's a good kit, you'll have to boot from something like a bbc and run it >that way, cuz the'll have kernel mods in that will prevent rootkit from >running appropriately. > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Wed Oct 22 03:53:07 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Netstat Segmentation Fault In-Reply-To: <3F962586.7090406@visi.com> References: <005b01c39842$c820eb90$ea7bfea9@rummey> <200310212329.50119@Twin.Cities.Linux.Users.Group-www.mn-linux.org> <3F962586.7090406@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031022085307.GH568@techmonkeys.org> On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 01:36:54AM -0500, Sam MacDonald wrote: > So I look up "rootkit" on google. The clowns have a website where they > distribute the bits and they teach classes in how to build the kernels > to use it. > > What a pain in the ass some people are, I mean it takes a lot of spite > to even think up such a thing. > Some one tell me, what, in these poor, ignorant, bastards childhoods > caused them to think this way. I'd like to give them 3 rounds with > George Foreman as a gift just for having the thought of this kind of BS. Would you feel safer if only the criminals knew where to get bolt cutters and guns? The problem is not the rootkit, it's the hole they used to get into the system to begin with. You should always perform a clean install after an intrusion, a rootkit just gives you a harder boot in the rear. > > Sam -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rware at interplastic.com Wed Oct 22 06:52:32 2003 From: rware at interplastic.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Netstat Segmentation Fault Message-ID: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B27F@ipserver2.interplastic.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Sam MacDonald [mailto:smac@visi.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 1:37 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Netstat Segmentation Fault > > > So I look up "rootkit" on google. The clowns have a website > where they > distribute the bits and they teach classes in how to build > the kernels > to use it. Welcome to *nix. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kbongers at mninter.net Wed Oct 22 07:35:51 2003 From: kbongers at mninter.net (Karl Bongers) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Support for two ethernet port In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031022123551.GA32117@karl> Add your board, get a driver to load, ifconfig to set up networking, then route command. There are ethernet/networking HOWTO's that can help. Traditionally the config info is stored in places like /etc/sysconfig/networking, then a startup script reads it and does the work: look in /etc/inittab which calls a startup script like init.d/rcS to do some of this work. That's probably the hard way to do it too, grab a RH6.2 book and look in the network section should help. On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 01:16:56AM -0500, Sreekumar Kodakara wrote: > Hi, > > Do we need to compile the kernel to have two ethernet ports working in the > machine or is there something else which one has to do to get two ethernet > port working? I have a RH 6.2 machine. One ethernet port is present on the > mother board and is working fine. I have to add one ethernet card to > the system. > > Thanks for the help > > Sreekumar > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Wed Oct 22 07:57:22 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Netstat Segmentation Fault In-Reply-To: <20031022085307.GH568@techmonkeys.org> References: <005b01c39842$c820eb90$ea7bfea9@rummey> <200310212329.50119@Twin.Cities.Linux.Users.Group-www.mn-linux.org> <3F962586.7090406@visi.com> <20031022085307.GH568@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <3F967EB2.9020204@visi.com> I would feel better if people would do what they should, not what they want to do. Instead of helping people they try to hurt people. These are not people displaying any moral or ethical grounds for what they do. A criminal is a criminal, they are scum and should be dealt with as such. I've worked through to many virus and DOS attacks to consider the people that do this kind of thing as any less criminal. If they want to tell me a security hole exists they can call me. When they attack a system it is a criminal act, end of story. Find them, toss them in jail, and let buba have their ass. The problem IS the rootkit, it enables a crime to be committed. Rootkit has NO legitimate reason to exist, it exists to cause damage to a computer system. Drug dealers do the same thing they enable criminal behavior for profit. And NO it's not advertised as a way to check the security of your own system. The intent is to cause other people problems, because poor Johnny didn't get to watch TV that one Saturday when he was 10. Let Johnny have lots of time in prison for his actions. Sam. Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > > >Would you feel safer if only the criminals knew where to get bolt cutters >and guns? The problem is not the rootkit, it's the hole they used to get >into the system to begin with. You should always perform a clean install >after an intrusion, a rootkit just gives you a harder boot in the rear. > > > >>Sam >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com Wed Oct 22 08:13:29 2003 From: Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com (Lansing, Dan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Netstat Segmentation Fault Message-ID: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D3755@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> I for one am going to have to agree with Sam on this....might be one of the first times I've done this I think...its time to put the blame on the criminals not on the victims....yes you should secure your boxen but not everyone knows how to make them secure....just because I'm learning how to make a lock for my front door does not give you license to squat in my house Dan Lansing -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Sam MacDonald Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 7:57 AM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Netstat Segmentation Fault I would feel better if people would do what they should, not what they want to do. Instead of helping people they try to hurt people. These are not people displaying any moral or ethical grounds for what they do. A criminal is a criminal, they are scum and should be dealt with as such. I've worked through to many virus and DOS attacks to consider the people that do this kind of thing as any less criminal. If they want to tell me a security hole exists they can call me. When they attack a system it is a criminal act, end of story. Find them, toss them in jail, and let buba have their ass. The problem IS the rootkit, it enables a crime to be committed. Rootkit has NO legitimate reason to exist, it exists to cause damage to a computer system. Drug dealers do the same thing they enable criminal behavior for profit. And NO it's not advertised as a way to check the security of your own system. The intent is to cause other people problems, because poor Johnny didn't get to watch TV that one Saturday when he was 10. Let Johnny have lots of time in prison for his actions. Sam. Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > > >Would you feel safer if only the criminals knew where to get bolt cutters >and guns? The problem is not the rootkit, it's the hole they used to get >into the system to begin with. You should always perform a clean install >after an intrusion, a rootkit just gives you a harder boot in the rear. > > > >>Sam >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rware at interplastic.com Wed Oct 22 08:20:48 2003 From: rware at interplastic.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Netstat Segmentation Fault Message-ID: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B286@ipserver2.interplastic.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Sam MacDonald [mailto:smac@visi.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 7:57 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Netstat Segmentation Fault > > > I would feel better if people would do what they should, not > what they > want to do. Instead of helping people they try to hurt people. These > are not people displaying any moral or ethical grounds for > what they do. > > A criminal is a criminal, they are scum and should be dealt with as > such. I've worked through to many virus and DOS attacks to consider > the people that do this kind of thing as any less criminal. > > If they want to tell me a security hole exists they can call > me. When Yup. No place for gray hats. > they attack a system it is a criminal act, end of story. Find > them, toss > them in jail, and let buba have their ass. > > The problem IS the rootkit, it enables a crime to be > committed. Rootkit > has NO legitimate reason to exist, it exists to cause damage to a > computer system. Drug dealers do the same thing they enable criminal Really sir. I only have the nuclear bomb plans in the event that I should find one and have to diffuse it. I had no intentions... I guess my view is the truly skilled cracker would have access to rootkits or could build their own in the same way that gun control would only work against law abiding citizens. My problem is with the general availability to teenage wannabees. How do you get the knowledge to SA's without making it public to the teenage wannabees - good question. > behavior for profit. And NO it's not advertised as a way to check the > security of your own system. The intent is to cause other people > problems, because poor Johnny didn't get to watch TV that one > Saturday > when he was 10. Let Johnny have lots of time in prison for > his actions. > > Sam. > > > Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > > > > > > >Would you feel safer if only the criminals knew where to get > bolt cutters > >and guns? The problem is not the rootkit, it's the hole they > used to get > >into the system to begin with. You should always perform a > clean install > >after an intrusion, a rootkit just gives you a harder boot > in the rear. > > > > > > > >>Sam > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Wed Oct 22 08:33:58 2003 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Support for two ethernet port In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031022133358.GA24829@mail.el-swifto.com> On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 01:16:56AM -0500, Sreekumar Kodakara wrote: > Do we need to compile the kernel to have two ethernet ports working in the > machine or is there something else which one has to do to get two ethernet > port working? I have a RH 6.2 machine. One ethernet port is present on the > mother board and is working fine. I have to add one ethernet card to > the system. > This is addressed in the Ethernet HOWTO. I'd also suggest a more recent distro than RH 6.2, but it's your life. Just don't come crying when you get rooted. -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ndavis at iexposure.com Wed Oct 22 08:37:35 2003 From: ndavis at iexposure.com (Nick Davis) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Support for two ethernet port In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200310220837.35928.ndavis@iexposure.com> Just put the card in the computer, boot it up, and then run linuxconf, netconf, or whatever network config utility you want to use to configure it. Nothing real special or difficult about adding a network card:) Hope that helps! Nick On Wednesday 22 October 2003 01:16, Sreekumar Kodakara wrote: > Hi, > > Do we need to compile the kernel to have two ethernet ports working in the > machine or is there something else which one has to do to get two ethernet > port working? I have a RH 6.2 machine. One ethernet port is present on the > mother board and is working fine. I have to add one ethernet card to > the system. > > Thanks for the help > > Sreekumar > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Nick Davis Associate Systems Administrator ndavis@iexposure.com Internet Exposure, Inc. http://www.iexposure.com (612)676-1946 Web Development-Web Marketing-ISP Services _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Wed Oct 22 08:45:44 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Netstat Segmentation Fault Message-ID: >>> smac@visi.com 10/22/03 07:57AM >>> >The problem IS the rootkit, it enables a crime >to be committed. Dead wrong. Tools do nothing alone. Focusing on them, instead of the criminal act of using said tools to commit a crime does exactly what you purport to oppose: it removes at least some responsibility (from the criminal) for the act committed. The argument "He could not do what he did if those tools were not so freely available" makes no sense to me. The "freely available" part allows me, the law abiding potential victim, to look at the tools too, to be able to recognize them when they are used against me, and to prepare defenses against them. Making the tools "illegal" robs me, not a criminal intent on using them. If he already plans to attack my computers illegally, I don't think acquiring or constructing an "illegal" tool to do so will make him "think twice". That's my 2 cents. Troy P.S. - This will not stop me from crying in my beer when someone uses a rootkit on me, but focusing on the rootkit as "the problem" will not make me feel any safer in the mean time. Or afterwards, for that matter. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Oct 22 08:53:48 2003 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:24 2005 Subject: Tools != Crime (was Re: [TCLUG] Netstat Segmentation Fault) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031022135348.GB22585@wookimus.net> On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 08:45:44AM -0500, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > Making the tools "illegal" robs me, not a criminal intent on using > them. If he already plans to attack my computers illegally, I don't > think acquiring or constructing an "illegal" tool to do so will make > him "think twice". Exactly. The type of argument Sam is presenting sounds wonderful to people like politicians. Regulate the tool and crime cannot be committed. This is exactly the type of mentality that the RIAA has against P2P filesharing applications. It's exactly the mentality that has plagued the decss cases. Possession of a tool does not make a criminal act. Application of a tool in an illegal manner does. Let's keep that distinction clear and free of morality agendas. -- Chad Walstrom http://www.wookimus.net/ assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031022/efa8f041/attachment.pgp From Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com Wed Oct 22 08:58:57 2003 From: Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com (Lansing, Dan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:24 2005 Subject: Tools != Crime (was Re: [TCLUG] Netstat Segmentation Fault) Message-ID: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D3756@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> I guess I should clarify my response to Sam's post by saying I also do not think rootkits should be illegal.... Ex. My father in law owns several guns....guns CAN be use to kill people....he does not...he is not a murderer...he hunts deer....mmmm tasty tasty deer...moral=as subject line guns!= murder Dan Lansing ITSC -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Chad Walstrom Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 8:54 AM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Tools != Crime (was Re: [TCLUG] Netstat Segmentation Fault) On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 08:45:44AM -0500, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > Making the tools "illegal" robs me, not a criminal intent on using > them. If he already plans to attack my computers illegally, I don't > think acquiring or constructing an "illegal" tool to do so will make > him "think twice". Exactly. The type of argument Sam is presenting sounds wonderful to people like politicians. Regulate the tool and crime cannot be committed. This is exactly the type of mentality that the RIAA has against P2P filesharing applications. It's exactly the mentality that has plagued the decss cases. Possession of a tool does not make a criminal act. Application of a tool in an illegal manner does. Let's keep that distinction clear and free of morality agendas. -- Chad Walstrom http://www.wookimus.net/ assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Wed Oct 22 09:56:55 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:24 2005 Subject: Tools != Crime (was Re: [TCLUG] Netstat Segmentation Fault) In-Reply-To: <20031022135348.GB22585@wookimus.net> References: <20031022135348.GB22585@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <20031022095655.371f912b.sfertch@real-time.com> On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 08:53:48 -0500 Chad Walstrom wrote: > On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 08:45:44AM -0500, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > > Making the tools "illegal" robs me, not a criminal intent on using > > them. If he already plans to attack my computers illegally, I don't > > think acquiring or constructing an "illegal" tool to do so will make > > him "think twice". > > Exactly. The type of argument Sam is presenting sounds wonderful to > people like politicians. Regulate the tool and crime cannot be > committed. This is exactly the type of mentality that the RIAA has > against P2P filesharing applications. It's exactly the mentality that > has plagued the decss cases. Possession of a tool does not make a > criminal act. Application of a tool in an illegal manner does. > > Let's keep that distinction clear and free of morality agendas. > One aspect of having tools that attempt to break into a system, from an administrator's standpoint IMO, is to check the validity and security of your measures to prevent such things. If used against your own machines, or in a hired manner to search for vulnerabilities of a client so they can correct them is a good thing. Not a criminal intent. Theory and simulated theory and practice is good, but the real test comes from application. IMO of course. -- Shawn The difficult we do today; the impossible take a little longer. Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Wed Oct 22 10:13:07 2003 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Netstat Segmentation Fault In-Reply-To: <3F967EB2.9020204@visi.com> References: <20031022085307.GH568@techmonkeys.org> <3F967EB2.9020204@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031022151307.GA1113@iucha.net> On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 07:57:22AM -0500, Sam MacDonald wrote: > I would feel better if people would do what they should, not what they > want to do. Who decides "what they should". There was One, and He gave up. "Free will". > Instead of helping people they try to hurt people. These > are not people displaying any moral or ethical grounds for what they do. > > A criminal is a criminal, they are scum and should be dealt with as > such. I've worked through to many virus and DOS attacks to consider > the people that do this kind of thing as any less criminal. > > If they want to tell me a security hole exists they can call me. When > they attack a system it is a criminal act, end of story. Find them, toss > them in jail, Right! > and let buba have their ass. Wrong! Bubba should do only what he should do, not what he wants! > The problem IS the rootkit, it enables a crime to be committed. Rootkit > has NO legitimate reason to exist, it exists to cause damage to a I bet $10 that a chicken has the same opinion about your knife. > computer system. Drug dealers do the same thing they enable criminal > behavior for profit. And NO it's not advertised as a way to check the > security of your own system. Indeed... knives were never advertised ad "throat resistence measurement tool". Duble standard? Don't do onto others... Thought is no a crime, posession of a knife is not a crime, posession of a rootkit is not a crime. Cutting somebody is a crime, rooting a box is a crime. florin > The intent is to cause other people > problems, because poor Johnny didn't get to watch TV that one Saturday > when he was 10. Let Johnny have lots of time in prison for his actions. > > Sam. > > > Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > > > > > > >Would you feel safer if only the criminals knew where to get bolt cutters > >and guns? The problem is not the rootkit, it's the hole they used to get > >into the system to begin with. You should always perform a clean install > >after an intrusion, a rootkit just gives you a harder boot in the rear. > > > > > > > >>Sam > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Don't question authority: they don't know either! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031022/31007550/attachment.pgp From blots at visi.com Wed Oct 22 11:38:17 2003 From: blots at visi.com (Tom Penney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:24 2005 Subject: Tools != Crime (was Re: [TCLUG] Netstat Segmentation Fault) In-Reply-To: <20031022135348.GB22585@wookimus.net> References: <20031022135348.GB22585@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <1066840697.15243.85.camel@lotsa> On Wed, 2003-10-22 at 08:53, Chad Walstrom wrote: > On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 08:45:44AM -0500, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > > Making the tools "illegal" robs me, not a criminal intent on using > > them. If he already plans to attack my computers illegally, I don't > > think acquiring or constructing an "illegal" tool to do so will make > > him "think twice". > > Exactly. The type of argument Sam is presenting sounds wonderful to > people like politicians. Regulate the tool and crime cannot be > committed. This is exactly the type of mentality that the RIAA has > against P2P filesharing applications. It's exactly the mentality that > has plagued the decss cases. Possession of a tool does not make a > criminal act. Application of a tool in an illegal manner does. > > Let's keep that distinction clear and free of morality agendas. I agree. Making something against the law only keeps it out of the hands of those who follow the law. If they can root systems they can certainly download illegal code. Yes rootkits are spawned of ill-intent but what if the people who had do defend against them suddenly could not legally see how they worked? What if someone put a rootkit on your system and told the cops you are rooting systems? Can you prove it is not your rootkit? It would give the criminals a big advantage to have this code outlawed. Even if you could magically make all root kits disappear there are still people who know how to rewrite them, and they would. We need to figure out how to catch these people and prosecute them and make it hurt when they are convicted. Should we as a group start a honeypot project? Perhaps some DA looking to get reelected would work with us. -- Tom Penney _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bmaas at open-techsys.com Wed Oct 22 12:09:00 2003 From: bmaas at open-techsys.com (Ben Maas) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Netstat Segmentation Fault In-Reply-To: <20031022151307.GA1113@iucha.net> References: <20031022085307.GH568@techmonkeys.org> <3F967EB2.9020204@visi.com> <20031022151307.GA1113@iucha.net> Message-ID: <200310221209.00747.bmaas@open-techsys.com> Getting rooted sucks. But ultimately the full responsiblity rests with the person doing the actual attack. On Wednesday 22 October 2003 10:13 am, Florin Iucha wrote: > On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 07:57:22AM -0500, Sam MacDonald wrote: > > The problem IS the rootkit, it enables a crime to be committed. Rootkit > > has NO legitimate reason to exist, it exists to cause damage to a > > I bet $10 that a chicken has the same opinion about your knife. Almost any tool can be used for evil intent. Once knives are banned by the chickens they'd have to ban axes. But even then the farmer can just catch the chicken and snap its neck. Banning tools does nothing to actually prevent a person from carrying out intent. It could also be argued (big strech here, but hang with me) that knives and root kits are more efficient for both parties. In the root kit case, because script kiddies don't roll their own they use a "standard" root kit. That makes detection easier for the white hats. And it gives the white hats a better target for defense as well. In other words, even though the barrier to entry is lowered so is barrier to defense. We can complain endlessly (and I do, just ask my RL friends) about how many people like to "grief". I'd dare say that almost everyone on this list at least teased their little sister to hard a few times, or burned a spider with a magnifing glass, or whatever. Its human nature. People can disagree on the "whys", but this isn't the proper place that discussion. However, as with any other problem we need to deal with root causes of the problem. Want people to stop using root kits? Get involved with youth who are interested in computers, get them interested in white hat activities and (gasp!) white hat morals so they come to understand that it is "uncool" to root people. If you happen to bump into your local script kiddie, even better! Give them a project or an old programming book. Showing interest, even if you don't have much time to give, is usually enough to get this kids on the right track. I've been doing this for long enough that script kiddies weren't a problem when I started, but young enough to know a few personally. Most of these kids are just bored. I'm sure this "one person at time" strategy sounds nieve, but it has helped myself and a friend several times already. His network (school district in a western state with three junior and high schools) stays pretty quiet, and I'm convinced its because as an IT group they seek out and get to know their geeks. Oh well, thats enough stumping for one day :-) -- Ben Maas - Technology Architect Open Technology Systems, LLC ----------------------------------------------------------- eMail: bmaas@open-techsys.com Web: http://www.open-techsys.com Phone: 952.448.3121 Fax: 952.448.4944 Cell: 612.743.3674 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ben_b at ppdonline.com Wed Oct 22 11:56:18 2003 From: ben_b at ppdonline.com (Ben Bargabus) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:24 2005 Subject: Tools != Crime (was Re: [TCLUG] Netstat Segmentation Fault) References: <20031022135348.GB22585@wookimus.net> <1066840697.15243.85.camel@lotsa> Message-ID: <3F96B6B2.3D879813@ppdonline.com> This is off topic but this thread reminds me of all those people with the " bans guns on these premises" signs. Do they really think that the robber/murderer/rapist will see that sign and decide they better rob/murder/rape elsewhere because their gun isn't allowed? Meanwhile the law abiding citizen who would have protected them as the attempted robbery/murder/rape took place has now decided to visit some other establishment where she is welcome. It's all the same concept, blame the tool rather than the criminal. It's feel good policy but doesn't work. Later, Ben. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jimstreit at northlans.com Wed Oct 22 12:35:38 2003 From: jimstreit at northlans.com (Jim Streit) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Netstat Segmentation Fault In-Reply-To: <200310221209.00747.bmaas@open-techsys.com> References: <20031022085307.GH568@techmonkeys.org> <3F967EB2.9020204@visi.com> <20031022151307.GA1113@iucha.net> <200310221209.00747.bmaas@open-techsys.com> Message-ID: <4817.65.116.187.220.1066844138.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> Kinda back to the origin message (sorry chickens...) How does a person go about finding if their machine has a rootkit? > Getting rooted sucks. But ultimately the full responsiblity rests with > the person doing the actual attack. > > On Wednesday 22 October 2003 10:13 am, Florin Iucha wrote: >> On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 07:57:22AM -0500, Sam MacDonald wrote: >> > The problem IS the rootkit, it enables a crime to be committed. >> Rootkit has NO legitimate reason to exist, it exists to cause damage >> to a >> >> I bet $10 that a chicken has the same opinion about your knife. > > Almost any tool can be used for evil intent. > > Once knives are banned by the chickens they'd have to ban axes. But > even then the farmer can just catch the chicken and snap its neck. > Banning tools does nothing to actually prevent a person from carrying > out intent. > > It could also be argued (big strech here, but hang with me) that knives > and root kits are more efficient for both parties. > > In the root kit case, because script kiddies don't roll their own they > use a "standard" root kit. That makes detection easier for the white > hats. And it gives the white hats a better target for defense as well. > In other words, even though the barrier to entry is lowered so is > barrier to defense. > > We can complain endlessly (and I do, just ask my RL friends) about how > many people like to "grief". I'd dare say that almost everyone on this > list at least teased their little sister to hard a few times, or burned > a spider with a magnifing glass, or whatever. Its human nature. > People can disagree on the "whys", but this isn't the proper place that > discussion. > > However, as with any other problem we need to deal with root causes of > the problem. Want people to stop using root kits? Get involved with > youth who are interested in computers, get them interested in white hat > activities and (gasp!) white hat morals so they come to understand that > it is "uncool" to root people. If you happen to bump into your local > script kiddie, even better! Give them a project or an old programming > book. Showing interest, even if you don't have much time to give, is > usually enough to get this kids on the right track. I've been doing > this for long enough that script kiddies weren't a problem when I > started, but young enough to know a few personally. Most of these kids > are just bored. > > I'm sure this "one person at time" strategy sounds nieve, but it has > helped myself and a friend several times already. His network (school > district in a western state with three junior and high schools) stays > pretty quiet, and I'm convinced its because as an IT group they seek > out and get to know their geeks. > > Oh well, thats enough stumping for one day :-) > > -- > > Ben Maas - Technology Architect > Open Technology Systems, LLC > ----------------------------------------------------------- > eMail: bmaas@open-techsys.com > Web: http://www.open-techsys.com > Phone: 952.448.3121 > Fax: 952.448.4944 > Cell: 612.743.3674 > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Wed Oct 22 12:56:24 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Netstat Segmentation Fault In-Reply-To: <4817.65.116.187.220.1066844138.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> References: <20031022085307.GH568@techmonkeys.org> <3F967EB2.9020204@visi.com> <20031022151307.GA1113@iucha.net> <200310221209.00747.bmaas@open-techsys.com> <4817.65.116.187.220.1066844138.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> Message-ID: <20031022175623.GF22716@fandre.com> chkrootkit is one way. http://www.chkrootkit.org/ On Wed, 22 Oct 2003, Jim Streit wrote: > Kinda back to the origin message (sorry chickens...) How does a person go > about finding if their machine has a rootkit? > > > > Getting rooted sucks. But ultimately the full responsiblity rests with > > the person doing the actual attack. > > > > On Wednesday 22 October 2003 10:13 am, Florin Iucha wrote: > >> On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 07:57:22AM -0500, Sam MacDonald wrote: > >> > The problem IS the rootkit, it enables a crime to be committed. > >> Rootkit has NO legitimate reason to exist, it exists to cause damage > >> to a > >> > >> I bet $10 that a chicken has the same opinion about your knife. > > > > Almost any tool can be used for evil intent. > > > > Once knives are banned by the chickens they'd have to ban axes. But > > even then the farmer can just catch the chicken and snap its neck. > > Banning tools does nothing to actually prevent a person from carrying > > out intent. > > > > It could also be argued (big strech here, but hang with me) that knives > > and root kits are more efficient for both parties. > > > > In the root kit case, because script kiddies don't roll their own they > > use a "standard" root kit. That makes detection easier for the white > > hats. And it gives the white hats a better target for defense as well. > > In other words, even though the barrier to entry is lowered so is > > barrier to defense. > > > > We can complain endlessly (and I do, just ask my RL friends) about how > > many people like to "grief". I'd dare say that almost everyone on this > > list at least teased their little sister to hard a few times, or burned > > a spider with a magnifing glass, or whatever. Its human nature. > > People can disagree on the "whys", but this isn't the proper place that > > discussion. > > > > However, as with any other problem we need to deal with root causes of > > the problem. Want people to stop using root kits? Get involved with > > youth who are interested in computers, get them interested in white hat > > activities and (gasp!) white hat morals so they come to understand that > > it is "uncool" to root people. If you happen to bump into your local > > script kiddie, even better! Give them a project or an old programming > > book. Showing interest, even if you don't have much time to give, is > > usually enough to get this kids on the right track. I've been doing > > this for long enough that script kiddies weren't a problem when I > > started, but young enough to know a few personally. Most of these kids > > are just bored. > > > > I'm sure this "one person at time" strategy sounds nieve, but it has > > helped myself and a friend several times already. His network (school > > district in a western state with three junior and high schools) stays > > pretty quiet, and I'm convinced its because as an IT group they seek > > out and get to know their geeks. > > > > Oh well, thats enough stumping for one day :-) > > > > -- > > > > Ben Maas - Technology Architect > > Open Technology Systems, LLC > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > eMail: bmaas@open-techsys.com > > Web: http://www.open-techsys.com > > Phone: 952.448.3121 > > Fax: 952.448.4944 > > Cell: 612.743.3674 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Clay Fandre email: clay at fandre.com PGP Key ID: 0x50DBBB60 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bmaas at open-techsys.com Wed Oct 22 13:13:57 2003 From: bmaas at open-techsys.com (Ben Maas) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Netstat Segmentation Fault In-Reply-To: <4817.65.116.187.220.1066844138.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> References: <20031022085307.GH568@techmonkeys.org> <200310221209.00747.bmaas@open-techsys.com> <4817.65.116.187.220.1066844138.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> Message-ID: <200310221313.57454.bmaas@open-techsys.com> On Wednesday 22 October 2003 12:35 pm, Jim Streit wrote: > Kinda back to the origin message (sorry chickens...) How does a person go > about finding if their machine has a rootkit? > ChkRootKit (http://www.chkrootkit.org) will catch most of the big ones. Other things to look into to are projects to catch them before they get you like: Tripwire (http://www.tripwire.org) Snort (http://www.snort.org) Snorticus (http://snorticus.baysoft.net) -- Ben Maas - Technology Architect Open Technology Systems, LLC ----------------------------------------------------------- eMail: bmaas@open-techsys.com Web: http://www.open-techsys.com Phone: 952.448.3121 Fax: 952.448.4944 Cell: 612.743.3674 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erik at andersonfam.org Wed Oct 22 13:13:47 2003 From: erik at andersonfam.org (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] syslog over ssh? Message-ID: <3F96C8DB.9070108@andersonfam.org> Here's my question...I have a linux box on my LAN that is recieving all of the syslogs from all of my servers (Linux, NT, & Otherwise). I recently installed a new webserver outside of our LAN, and was wondering how best to, if possible, get the logs back to my main logging server. The only scenario that I've come up with so far is to open an ssh connection from the logging server to the webserver and use remote port forwarding to get the logs back. Is this possible? Is there a better way? For some reason, I have in my head that ssh port forwarding only works for tcp ports... Thanks! -Erik _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jimstreit at northlans.com Wed Oct 22 13:17:11 2003 From: jimstreit at northlans.com (Jim Streit) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Netstat Segmentation Fault In-Reply-To: <200310221313.57454.bmaas@open-techsys.com> References: <20031022085307.GH568@techmonkeys.org> <200310221209.00747.bmaas@open-techsys.com> <4817.65.116.187.220.1066844138.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> <200310221313.57454.bmaas@open-techsys.com> Message-ID: <1069.65.116.187.220.1066846631.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> Thanks, its good to know, I'll check it out. Jim > On Wednesday 22 October 2003 12:35 pm, Jim Streit wrote: >> Kinda back to the origin message (sorry chickens...) How does a >> person go about finding if their machine has a rootkit? >> > > ChkRootKit (http://www.chkrootkit.org) will catch most of the big ones. > > Other things to look into to are projects to catch them before they get > you like: > > Tripwire (http://www.tripwire.org) > Snort (http://www.snort.org) > Snorticus (http://snorticus.baysoft.net) > > -- > > Ben Maas - Technology Architect > Open Technology Systems, LLC > ----------------------------------------------------------- > eMail: bmaas@open-techsys.com > Web: http://www.open-techsys.com > Phone: 952.448.3121 > Fax: 952.448.4944 > Cell: 612.743.3674 > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Oct 22 13:22:23 2003 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] (OFFTOPIC) Concealed != Crime In-Reply-To: <3F96B6B2.3D879813@ppdonline.com> References: <20031022135348.GB22585@wookimus.net> <1066840697.15243.85.camel@lotsa> <3F96B6B2.3D879813@ppdonline.com> Message-ID: <20031022182223.GB25456@wookimus.net> On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 11:56:18AM -0500, Ben Bargabus wrote: > This is off topic but this thread reminds me of all those people with > the " bans guns on these premises" signs. Do they > really think that the robber/murderer/rapist will see that sign and > decide they better rob/murder/rape elsewhere because their gun isn't > allowed? Good point. ;-) However, the establishment is thereby taking responsibility for protecting its customers. Consider a government building. There are carry-conceal notices and metal detectors galore, but in such buildings, you can expect to see guards carrying out the duty that a would-be carrying citizen would otherwise do. In churches, their environment/atmosphere is one of non-violence and they would prefer to attempt to use reason or godsmack to convince intruders to behave themselves. There's a place and time for everything. Carrying concealed weapons is not necessarily applicable for all of them. I won't be one to carry concealed given where I live, work, and relax, but I won't begrudge someone who feels it is necessary under his/her own personal circumstances. Hey, at least it's legal to do so now. -- Chad Walstrom http://www.wookimus.net/ assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031022/da63cccd/attachment.pgp From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Oct 22 13:25:03 2003 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] syslog over ssh? In-Reply-To: <3F96C8DB.9070108@andersonfam.org> References: <3F96C8DB.9070108@andersonfam.org> Message-ID: <20031022182503.GC25456@wookimus.net> On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 01:13:47PM -0500, Erik Anderson wrote: > Here's my question...I have a linux box on my LAN that is recieving > all of the syslogs from all of my servers (Linux, NT, & Otherwise). I > recently installed a new webserver outside of our LAN, and was > wondering how best to, if possible, get the logs back to my main > logging server. syslog-ng can use TCP instead of UDP and I believe that it also has SSL encryption available. (Perhaps STARTTLS as well). > The only scenario that I've come up with so far is to open an ssh > connection from the logging server to the webserver and use remote > port forwarding to get the logs back. Is this possible? Is there a > better way? For some reason, I have in my head that ssh port > forwarding only works for tcp ports... Use syslog-ng with ssl, ssh, or stunnel or create an encrypted, tunneled interface using vtun. -- Chad Walstrom http://www.wookimus.net/ assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031022/81cdcfa9/attachment.pgp From tanner at real-time.com Wed Oct 22 13:25:29 2003 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: ignore: real word test #2 Message-ID: <20031022182529.GH22237@real-time.com> Sorry, another real world test. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 http://www.linuxjustworks.com | Linux Just Works! Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Wed Oct 22 13:29:31 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] syslog over ssh? In-Reply-To: <3F96C8DB.9070108@andersonfam.org> References: <3F96C8DB.9070108@andersonfam.org> Message-ID: <20031022182931.GG22716@fandre.com> How about syslog-ng and stunnel? http://venus.ece.ndsu.nodak.edu/~jezerr/linux/secure-remote-logging.html I'm assuming you could also do this with default syslog as well. Anyone? On Wed, 22 Oct 2003, Erik Anderson wrote: > Here's my question...I have a linux box on my LAN that is recieving all > of the syslogs from all of my servers (Linux, NT, & Otherwise). I > recently installed a new webserver outside of our LAN, and was wondering > how best to, if possible, get the logs back to my main logging server. > > The only scenario that I've come up with so far is to open an ssh > connection from the logging server to the webserver and use remote port > forwarding to get the logs back. Is this possible? Is there a better > way? For some reason, I have in my head that ssh port forwarding only > works for tcp ports... > > Thanks! > -Erik > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From JAustad at temgweb.com Wed Oct 22 14:12:35 2003 From: JAustad at temgweb.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] perl question Message-ID: <288FAF5565A1A74EA5E35C39E7EE1D420A1BDC8D@mail.temgweb.com> So in perl, how do I read user entered input in character by character and have it do something when a particular key is pressed. Say I want the program to print "You pressed 5!" when I press the number 5. So I type: 12345 When the first numbers are entered, nothing happens, but as soon as I press 5, the program prints it's output and dies. When I tried using a while () loop, it didn't seem to read character by character but rather only evaluated all of them after I pressed enter. -jay _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erik at andersonfam.org Wed Oct 22 14:18:35 2003 From: erik at andersonfam.org (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] perl question In-Reply-To: <288FAF5565A1A74EA5E35C39E7EE1D420A1BDC8D@mail.temgweb.com> References: <288FAF5565A1A74EA5E35C39E7EE1D420A1BDC8D@mail.temgweb.com> Message-ID: <3F96D80B.8000403@andersonfam.org> Austad, Jay wrote: > So in perl, how do I read user entered input in character by character and > have it do something when a particular key is pressed. Say I want the > program to print "You pressed 5!" when I press the number 5. So I type: > 12345 > > When the first numbers are entered, nothing happens, but as soon as I press > 5, the program prints it's output and dies. When I tried using a while > () loop, it didn't seem to read character by character but rather > only evaluated all of them after I pressed enter. I haven't used this personally, but I bet that Term::Readkey might help you out a bit... http://www.cpan.org/modules/by-module/Term/TermReadKey-2.21.readme -Erik _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Wed Oct 22 14:23:30 2003 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] perl question In-Reply-To: <288FAF5565A1A74EA5E35C39E7EE1D420A1BDC8D@mail.temgweb.com> References: <288FAF5565A1A74EA5E35C39E7EE1D420A1BDC8D@mail.temgweb.com> Message-ID: <20031022192330.GA2863@mail.el-swifto.com> On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 02:12:35PM -0500, Austad, Jay wrote: > So in perl, how do I read user entered input in character by character and > have it do something when a particular key is pressed. Say I want the > program to print "You pressed 5!" when I press the number 5. So I type: > 12345 > > When the first numbers are entered, nothing happens, but as soon as I press > 5, the program prints it's output and dies. When I tried using a while > () loop, it didn't seem to read character by character but rather > only evaluated all of them after I pressed enter. > perldoc Term::ReadKey http://perldoc.com/perl5.8.0/pod/perlfaq8.html -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From william.layer at comcast.net Wed Oct 22 13:39:46 2003 From: william.layer at comcast.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Netstat Segmentation Fault In-Reply-To: <4817.65.116.187.220.1066844138.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> References: <20031022085307.GH568@techmonkeys.org> <3F967EB2.9020204@visi.com> <20031022151307.GA1113@iucha.net> <200310221209.00747.bmaas@open-techsys.com> <4817.65.116.187.220.1066844138.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> Message-ID: <20031022133946.557c63af.william.layer@comcast.net> On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:35:38 -0500 (CDT) "Jim Streit" wrote: > Kinda back to the origin message (sorry chickens...) How does a person go > about finding if their machine has a rootkit? As others have said, chkrootkit is very good at this. Make sure you get the *latest* one, of course. If possible, boot from a recovery CD or floppy to perform the checks.. I'm not up to date on the issues surrounding kernel mods, but to play it safe, I would want to be running a known-clean kernel to perform the checks. On a personal note, I've never been rooted but once - and that was when I accidentally left open an sshd on my firewall, with a default password set - so I don't really count it, no surprise there. By the time I remembered my error, it was already owned. BUT - I know that eventually, my time will come.. and you know what? I won't blame anyone but myself. It's natural to want to point fingers at 'bad people', but in the end, pragmatism tells me that the energies are best directed to self-improvement, if my goal is actually better security, not just finding someone to demonize in hopes of salvaging ego. -L _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From JAustad at temgweb.com Wed Oct 22 14:34:33 2003 From: JAustad at temgweb.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] perl question Message-ID: <288FAF5565A1A74EA5E35C39E7EE1D420A1BDC8E@mail.temgweb.com> So this can take STDIN from something like a pipe also? I'm not necessarily putting the data in via keyboard. Some of it will be piped in, and the program has to do something when it hits a certain character. -jay > -----Original Message----- > From: John J. Trammell [mailto:trammell+tclug@el-swifto.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 2:24 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] perl question > > > On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 02:12:35PM -0500, Austad, Jay wrote: > > So in perl, how do I read user entered input in character > by character and > > have it do something when a particular key is pressed. Say > I want the > > program to print "You pressed 5!" when I press the number > 5. So I type: > > 12345 > > > > When the first numbers are entered, nothing happens, but as > soon as I press > > 5, the program prints it's output and dies. When I tried > using a while > > () loop, it didn't seem to read character by > character but rather > > only evaluated all of them after I pressed enter. > > > > perldoc Term::ReadKey > http://perldoc.com/perl5.8.0/pod/perlfaq8.html > > -- > trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 > CC14 8ABA 36F5 > Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Wed Oct 22 14:54:28 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:26 2005 Subject: Tools != Crime (was Re: [TCLUG] Netstat Segmentation Fault) In-Reply-To: <3F96B6B2.3D879813@ppdonline.com> References: <20031022135348.GB22585@wookimus.net> <1066840697.15243.85.camel@lotsa> <3F96B6B2.3D879813@ppdonline.com> Message-ID: <3F96E074.4050806@visi.com> I did not say to "ban" the software. I said it's irresponsible do distribute it in the way they are doing it. I said the people who use it for evil piss-me-off. We need the tools but we don't "LEGALLY" sell guns to criminals or minors. We require minors to be educated about guns if they will use them for sport shooting. The whole note was about the evil little runts that commit crimes "knowingly" against people who may or may not know they have a security problem. They don't contact the person with the leaky security they just commit a crime. I'm sure they say to themselves "F**K'em lets break in" and that's as much thought that goes in to what they do. Do the right thing, be helpful, be positive, have good intentions. Don't play god, don't feel you have the right to act just because you can, don't do evil things for fun. How difficult is this to understand. As a society we've let the "gray area" become much to wide. I only stole a little money, I only lied a little bit, I only hit him once, I only raped her once, I only shot him once. Criminal behavior is criminal behavior, end of story. When I was in High School, 1974-1977, I took a humanities class. We had to write the quote of the day, from the black board, in our note books. One of the quotes was "Freedom is not the right to do as you want to do, it is the right to do as you should". I don't remember who the author is. Your rights are only protected by your ability to behave yourself. Lets say my son is riding his new bike around the neighborhood, a tan age driver, driving at 2 times the speed limit (that would be 50 mph), hits and kills my son. Do I have the right to go out and kill that tan age driver? No, I don't have that right, I need to do the right thing and call the police. However, the kid better hope the police get him before I do. Do the right thing follow the speed limit so you don't kill my son. Sam _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From np at f-matic.net Wed Oct 22 15:52:42 2003 From: np at f-matic.net (nick phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] belated thank you (was: RE: good inventory system) Message-ID: <1066855962.15980.48.camel@debian> Hello list, Just wanted to say a belated thank you to all who responded to my question about a good open-source linux-based inventory system. This week turned unexpectedly hectic, so I was unable to respond until now, but all the information was greatly appreciated. So, many thanks! best, Nick _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Wed Oct 22 15:05:12 2003 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] perl question In-Reply-To: <288FAF5565A1A74EA5E35C39E7EE1D420A1BDC8E@mail.temgweb.com> References: <288FAF5565A1A74EA5E35C39E7EE1D420A1BDC8E@mail.temgweb.com> Message-ID: <20031022200512.GA3963@mail.el-swifto.com> On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 02:34:33PM -0500, Austad, Jay wrote: > So this can take STDIN from something like a pipe also? I'm not > necessarily putting the data in via keyboard. Some of it will be > piped in, and the program has to do something when it hits a certain > character. > To be honest, I don't know the answer to that off the top of my head. The docs point to getc(), select(), and POSIX::getattr as possible starting points.... -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erik at andersonfam.org Wed Oct 22 15:21:13 2003 From: erik at andersonfam.org (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] syslog over ssh? In-Reply-To: <20031022182931.GG22716@fandre.com> References: <3F96C8DB.9070108@andersonfam.org> <20031022182931.GG22716@fandre.com> Message-ID: <3F96E6B9.1050907@andersonfam.org> Clay Fandre wrote: > How about syslog-ng and stunnel? > http://venus.ece.ndsu.nodak.edu/~jezerr/linux/secure-remote-logging.html Thanks for the link...I think I'll grab syslog-ng and give it a whirl. -Erik _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Wed Oct 22 15:50:25 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:26 2005 Subject: Tools != Crime (was Re: [TCLUG] Netstat Segmentation Fault) Message-ID: Not difficult to understand, and most would agree that those responsible should be held to account for their crimes (I think). But what is the "responsible way" to distribute this software? This software isn't "sold" to anybody (that I'm aware of) and there is no central authority responsible for regulating it. Who should and how should they do it? Are these software the new "munitions" (like encryption software)? What capabilities would get a piece of software classified as such? Who does get to see these software and what qualifications will be required of them? There are many such questions and grey areas in this debate, and few good answers (that I have heard). You may not have said "ban" the software, but the "blaming the tools" approach starts you off down that road. I agree with the "bad things should happen to those bad people who do that bad stuff", but the "bad tools should be controlled" needs more and better explanation. Unless you want to get the feedback that comes along (like baggage) with that topic. A happy day to you, Troy >>> smac@visi.com 10/22/03 02:54PM >>> I did not say to "ban" the software. I said it's irresponsible do distribute it in the way they are doing it. I said the people who use it for evil piss-me-off. We need the tools but we don't "LEGALLY" sell guns to criminals or minors. We require minors to be educated about guns if they will use them for sport shooting. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Wed Oct 22 18:20:30 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] belated thank you (was: RE: good inventory system) In-Reply-To: <1066855962.15980.48.camel@debian> References: <1066855962.15980.48.camel@debian> Message-ID: <20031022182030.428a524a.sfertch@real-time.com> On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 15:52:42 -0500 nick phillips wrote: > Hello list, > > Just wanted to say a belated thank you to all who responded to my > question about a good open-source linux-based inventory system. This > week turned unexpectedly hectic, so I was unable to respond until now, > but all the information was greatly appreciated. So, many thanks! > Nick, what in particular were you looking for it to do and what were some of the responses? sorry, missed the first go round and am being a lazy tard right now.... -- Shawn The difficult we do today; the impossible take a little longer. Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Wed Oct 22 19:06:06 2003 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:26 2005 Subject: Tools != Crime (was Re: [TCLUG] Netstat Segmentation Fault) In-Reply-To: <3F96B6B2.3D879813@ppdonline.com> References: <1066840697.15243.85.camel@lotsa> <3F96B6B2.3D879813@ppdonline.com> Message-ID: <20031023000606.GB1113@iucha.net> Mr. Dictator, Sir! Should I flame him for hijacking an offtopic discussion to an even more offtopic direction, or will you administer the administrative troll countermeasures? florin On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 11:56:18AM -0500, Ben Bargabus wrote: > This is off topic but this thread reminds me of all those people with > the " bans guns on these premises" signs. Do they > really think that the robber/murderer/rapist will see that sign and > decide they better rob/murder/rape elsewhere because their gun isn't > allowed? Meanwhile the law abiding citizen who would have protected > them as the attempted robbery/murder/rape took place has now decided to > visit some other establishment where she is welcome. It's all the same > concept, blame the tool rather than the criminal. It's feel good policy > but doesn't work. > Later, > Ben. -- Don't question authority: they don't know either! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031022/e9c80242/attachment.pgp From shulstad at frontiernet.net Wed Oct 22 20:49:36 2003 From: shulstad at frontiernet.net (John & Jan Schulstad) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ultra Newbie Question Message-ID: <00b901c39907$ed02cb70$14f43243@ComputerRoom> Hi, I recently completed my first succesful installation of Linux only to find my modem is incompatible with Linux. I have a new Gateway E-4100 Pentium 4, 2400 Mhz. Modem is a US Robotics Intel 537 EP data fax. Quite possibly this has been covered in one or more "installation evenings" - could you direct me to such a source - or? Thanks. John Schulstad -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031022/d7ecc9f3/attachment.html From sfertch at real-time.com Wed Oct 22 21:38:53 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ultra Newbie Question In-Reply-To: <00b901c39907$ed02cb70$14f43243@ComputerRoom> References: <00b901c39907$ed02cb70$14f43243@ComputerRoom> Message-ID: <20031022213853.739675db.sfertch@real-time.com> On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 20:49:36 -0500 "John & Jan Schulstad" wrote: > Hi, > > I recently completed my first succesful installation of Linux only to > find my modem is incompatible with Linux. > > I have a new Gateway E-4100 Pentium 4, 2400 Mhz. Modem is a US > Robotics Intel 537 EP data fax. > > Quite possibly this has been covered in one or more "installation > evenings" - could you direct me to such a source - or? > What distro did you wind up installing, btw? If it's a winmodem, they generally aren't supported. However, you could look at http://www.linmodems.org and see if there's hope. Good luck! -- Shawn The difficult we do today; the impossible take a little longer. Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bradyh at bitstream.net Wed Oct 22 22:22:08 2003 From: bradyh at bitstream.net (Brady Hegberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ultra Newbie Question In-Reply-To: <20031022213853.739675db.sfertch@real-time.com> References: <00b901c39907$ed02cb70$14f43243@ComputerRoom> <20031022213853.739675db.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: <1066879327.5356.9.camel@tankgrrl> Never tried to get a USR modem working. If you don't succeed - I recently bought one of these: http://www.nanosys1.com/mdm-tw-tfm92.html ($14.95) and it works great with the downloadable drivers. Oh, and if you have one of those ye olde steam-powered computing machines which still has ISA slots I have an ISA modem I'd be willing to give you. Brady > On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 20:49:36 -0500 > "John & Jan Schulstad" wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I recently completed my first succesful installation of Linux only to > > find my modem is incompatible with Linux. > > > > I have a new Gateway E-4100 Pentium 4, 2400 Mhz. Modem is a US > > Robotics Intel 537 EP data fax. > > > > Quite possibly this has been covered in one or more "installation > > evenings" - could you direct me to such a source - or? > > > > What distro did you wind up installing, btw? > > If it's a winmodem, they generally aren't supported. However, you could look at http://www.linmodems.org and see if there's hope. > > Good luck! > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Wed Oct 22 22:50:45 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ultra Newbie Question In-Reply-To: <1066879327.5356.9.camel@tankgrrl> References: <00b901c39907$ed02cb70$14f43243@ComputerRoom> <20031022213853.739675db.sfertch@real-time.com> <1066879327.5356.9.camel@tankgrrl> Message-ID: <3F975015.1070404@visi.com> I don't want the modem but I have a BIG OLD Steam Engine. It was a Gateway 2000 486e, now it's a pentium 200 running Debian. :-) With several ISA slots, the mother board is about 10 years old. I should look it up find the date and have a party :-D Sam. Brady Hegberg wrote: >Never tried to get a USR modem working. If you don't succeed - I >recently bought one of these: >http://www.nanosys1.com/mdm-tw-tfm92.html >($14.95) and it works great with the downloadable drivers. > >Oh, and if you have one of those ye olde steam-powered computing >machines which still has ISA slots I have an ISA modem I'd be willing to >give you. > >Brady > > > >>On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 20:49:36 -0500 >>"John & Jan Schulstad" wrote: >> >> >> >>>Hi, >>> >>>I recently completed my first succesful installation of Linux only to >>>find my modem is incompatible with Linux. >>> >>>I have a new Gateway E-4100 Pentium 4, 2400 Mhz. Modem is a US >>>Robotics Intel 537 EP data fax. >>> >>>Quite possibly this has been covered in one or more "installation >>>evenings" - could you direct me to such a source - or? >>> >>> >>> >>What distro did you wind up installing, btw? >> >>If it's a winmodem, they generally aren't supported. However, you could look at http://www.linmodems.org and see if there's hope. >> >>Good luck! >> >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gkrueger at cleosci.com Wed Oct 22 23:27:23 2003 From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (gkrueger) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ultra Newbie Question References: <00b901c39907$ed02cb70$14f43243@ComputerRoom> Message-ID: <3F9758AB.7060908@cleosci.com> I have been running a USR modem in a RedHat 8 machine. Granted, it did not install properly (that is to say, LINUX never saw it as a modem), however, by pointing it at the standard com device, I got the modem to work just fine. In my case (and to make it easy for myself in cases of reference), I just created a link "/dev/modem" to "/dev/ttyS2" (no quotes, btw). Garrett John & Jan Schulstad wrote: > Hi, > > I recently completed my first succesful installation of Linux only to > find my modem is incompatible with Linux. > > I have a new Gateway E-4100 Pentium 4, 2400 Mhz. Modem is a US > Robotics Intel 537 EP data fax. > > Quite possibly this has been covered in one or more "installation > evenings" - could you direct me to such a source - or? > > Thanks. > > John Schulstad -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031022/7aed60bb/attachment.htm From gkrueger at cleosci.com Wed Oct 22 23:42:19 2003 From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (gkrueger) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:27 2005 Subject: Tools != Crime (was Re: [TCLUG] Netstat Segmentation Fault) References: <20031022135348.GB22585@wookimus.net> <1066840697.15243.85.camel@lotsa> <3F96B6B2.3D879813@ppdonline.com> <3F96E074.4050806@visi.com> Message-ID: <3F975C2B.1040903@cleosci.com> Your statements defined precisely why the shades of gray are so wide. You speak of speed limits, but speed limits are black and white in a world of color. A comfortable speed for one driver may be excessive for another. I may easily be able to drive 75 mph on one road while the little old lady gets nervous driving beyond 45 mph. And what of the day the limit changes. Yesterday the legal limit was 55 mph on road X. The people pulled over by the cops were told, "we are just trying to keep you safe." Today, a new limit went into effect, and the legal limit is now 70 mph on the same road X. This now begs the question, "which one was/is the safe speed?" Were they lying before; is it all a farce? Doing the right thing is not easy because it's all relative to the perspective, and therein lies the problem. You quoted the "gray area" of, "I only stole a little money." If your pockets are lined, and you have plenty, then the petty theft would certainly be wrong. But what of the thief who steals in the name of survival? His pockets are empty, he has nothing, and he hasn't eaten in days. Now what? Is it still wrong? It depends upon who you are: the thief (right) or the one from whom he stole (wrong). It would be nice if everything were clear-cut and simple, but then that would mean we all think the same way. Life would be dull, and we would all be clones. Btw, what's a tan age driver? GK Sam MacDonald wrote: > Do the right thing, be helpful, be positive, have good intentions. > > Don't play god, don't feel you have the right to act just because you > can, don't do evil things for fun. > > How difficult is this to understand. > > As a society we've let the "gray area" become much to wide. I only > stole a little money, I only lied a little bit, I only hit him once, I > only raped her once, I only shot him once. Criminal behavior is > criminal behavior, end of story. ... > Lets say my son is riding his new bike around the neighborhood, a tan > age driver, driving at 2 times the speed limit (that would be 50 mph), > hits and kills my son. Do I have the right to go ... > better hope the police get him before I do. Do the right thing follow > the speed limit so you don't kill my son. > > Sam > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From william.layer at comcast.net Wed Oct 22 20:54:54 2003 From: william.layer at comcast.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ultra Newbie Question In-Reply-To: <00b901c39907$ed02cb70$14f43243@ComputerRoom> References: <00b901c39907$ed02cb70$14f43243@ComputerRoom> Message-ID: <20031022205454.3411b4d9.william.layer@comcast.net> On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 20:49:36 -0500 "John & Jan Schulstad" wrote: > I recently completed my first succesful installation of Linux only to find my modem is incompatible with Linux. > > I have a new Gateway E-4100 Pentium 4, 2400 Mhz. Modem is a US Robotics Intel 537 EP data fax. This is a HSP modem aka WinModem. I found this page right away (google is your friend): http://rzr.online.fr/docs/comp/modem.htm Hopefully it will have some info to help you.. but if I might offer a suggestion, ditch this thing in favor of a genuine hardware (DSP) modem. If you have a standard serial port, then an external model is all the more flexible. Even under windows, a lot of HSP modems are less than acceptable. In the long run, a hardware modem will be a more satisfying piece of hardware. Reconcile this against your potential near-term desire for a broadband connection ;) -L _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Thu Oct 23 02:40:34 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ultra Newbie Question In-Reply-To: <20031022205454.3411b4d9.william.layer@comcast.net> References: <00b901c39907$ed02cb70$14f43243@ComputerRoom> <20031022205454.3411b4d9.william.layer@comcast.net> Message-ID: <1066894834.16426.66.camel@bigtime> Best reference I've found: http://65.70.147.202:8080/gromitkc/dips/roster.html Very handy when I have a massive pile of PCI modems of all kinds to sort through... It seem to be a 50/50 mix these days, many current "not UART" modems are supported, just as many are not. Annoyingly they all seem to need kernel patches, very few of them are non-binary drivers. Sad state of affairs. At least modems are on the way out in the face of broadband anyway... (give it another 10 years) Anyone had good/bad experiences with PCI modems on Linux? I want to run VOCP (http://VOCPsystem.com/) on an ISA-less box and I can't find any mention of PCI modems that work well with it. I have piles and piles of controllerless/soft modems but haven't turned up a plain old serial port modem yet... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031023/d6a29ab2/attachment.pgp From rware at interplastic.com Thu Oct 23 06:59:46 2003 From: rware at interplastic.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:27 2005 Subject: Tools != Crime (was Re: [TCLUG] Netstat Segmentation Fault) Message-ID: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B29B@ipserver2.interplastic.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: gkrueger [mailto:gkrueger@cleosci.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 11:42 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: Tools != Crime (was Re: [TCLUG] Netstat > Segmentation Fault) > > > Your statements defined precisely why the shades of gray are so wide. > You speak of speed limits, but speed limits are black and white in a > world of color. A comfortable speed for one driver may be > excessive for > another. I may easily be able to drive 75 mph on one road while the > little old lady gets nervous driving beyond 45 mph. > > And what of the day the limit changes. Yesterday the legal > limit was 55 > mph on road X. The people pulled over by the cops were told, "we are > just trying to keep you safe." Today, a new limit went into > effect, and > the legal limit is now 70 mph on the same road X. This now begs the > question, "which one was/is the safe speed?" Were they lying > before; is > it all a farce? > > Doing the right thing is not easy because it's all relative to the > perspective, and therein lies the problem. > > You quoted the "gray area" of, "I only stole a little money." > If your > pockets are lined, and you have plenty, then the petty theft would > certainly be wrong. But what of the thief who steals in the name of > survival? His pockets are empty, he has nothing, and he > hasn't eaten in > days. Now what? Is it still wrong? It depends upon who you > are: the > thief (right) or the one from whom he stole (wrong). Does any of this have anything to do with Linux? > It would be nice if everything were clear-cut and simple, but > then that > would mean we all think the same way. Life would be dull, > and we would > all be clones. > > Btw, what's a tan age driver? > > GK > > Sam MacDonald wrote: > > > Do the right thing, be helpful, be positive, have good intentions. > > > > Don't play god, don't feel you have the right to act just > because you > > can, don't do evil things for fun. > > > > How difficult is this to understand. > > > > As a society we've let the "gray area" become much to wide. I only > > stole a little money, I only lied a little bit, I only hit > him once, I > > only raped her once, I only shot him once. Criminal behavior is > > criminal behavior, end of story. > > ... > > > Lets say my son is riding his new bike around the > neighborhood, a tan > > age driver, driving at 2 times the speed limit (that would > be 50 mph), > > hits and kills my son. Do I have the right to go ... > > > > better hope the police get him before I do. Do the right > thing follow > > the speed limit so you don't kill my son. > > > > Sam > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Thu Oct 23 07:04:06 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ultra Newbie Question In-Reply-To: <1066894834.16426.66.camel@bigtime> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Oct 2003, Callum Lerwick wrote: > supported, just as many are not. Annoyingly they all seem to need kernel > patches, what are you talking about? none of the "winmodems" i've come across required that the kernel be patched with anything... all of them compiled cleanly even against a redhat kernel. at least one even has a nifty little utility that build a .rpm, .deb, .tgz or just installs the module ala make install (look for the lucent winmodems) > very few of them are non-binary > drivers. Sad state of affairs. this at least is true... > Anyone had good/bad experiences with PCI modems on Linux? I want to run > VOCP (http://VOCPsystem.com/) on an ISA-less box and I can't find any > mention of PCI modems that work well with it. I have piles and piles of > controllerless/soft modems but haven't turned up a plain old serial port > modem yet... the lucent winmodems, (lt_modem?) worked great for me, and iirc i had a rockwell working too and some other kind that i do not recall anymore :/ Munir Nassar RedConcepts.NET http://redconcepts.net/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Thu Oct 23 07:05:41 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:27 2005 Subject: Tools != Crime (was Re: [TCLUG] Netstat Segmentation Fault) In-Reply-To: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B29B@ipserver2.interplastic.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Oct 2003, Ryan Ware wrote: > > > > Doing the right thing is not easy because it's all relative to the > > perspective, and therein lies the problem. > > > > You quoted the "gray area" of, "I only stole a little money." > > If your > > pockets are lined, and you have plenty, then the petty theft would > > certainly be wrong. But what of the thief who steals in the name of > > survival? His pockets are empty, he has nothing, and he > > hasn't eaten in > > days. Now what? Is it still wrong? It depends upon who you > > are: the > > thief (right) or the one from whom he stole (wrong). > > > > Does any of this have anything to do with Linux? what does not clipping your posts have to do with linux? :) Munir Nassar RedConcepts.NET http://redconcepts.net/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jasonandmissy at cableone.net Thu Oct 23 07:03:50 2003 From: jasonandmissy at cableone.net (jasonandmissy@cableone.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:27 2005 Subject: Tools != Crime (was Re: [TCLUG] Netstat Segmentation Fault) Message-ID: <064101c3995d$b8a95820$2900740a@cableone.net> So you have seen a alot of robberies/murders/rapes where you thought, geez I wish I could legally conceal a handgun right now? You been a victim of many violent crimes? I feel safer knowing that the establishment I am in bans handguns. Do I really need a bunch of gun toting freaks coming to a movie theatre strapped because there might be a robber/murderer/rapist present. No way. I'll take my chance that I'm not going to get robbed/raped/murdered. Besides with the all the terrorism that every American will die from, why worry about robberies/rapes/murders. Ask anybody who watches Fox news. They will tell you. This is off topic but this thread reminds me of all those people with the " bans guns on these premises" signs. Do they really think that the robber/murderer/rapist will see that sign and decide they better rob/murder/rape elsewhere because their gun isn't allowed? Meanwhile the law abiding citizen who would have protected them as the attempted robbery/murder/rape took place has now decided to visit some other establishment where she is welcome. It's all the same concept, blame the tool rather than the criminal. It's feel good policy but doesn't work. Later, Ben. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rware at interplastic.com Thu Oct 23 07:09:56 2003 From: rware at interplastic.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:27 2005 Subject: Tools != Crime (was Re: [TCLUG] Netstat Segmentation Fault) Message-ID: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B29C@ipserver2.interplastic.com> Sorry. > -----Original Message----- > From: Munir Nassar [mailto:nassarmu@redconcepts.net] > Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 7:06 AM > To: 'tclug-list@mn-linux.org' > Subject: RE: Tools != Crime (was Re: [TCLUG] Netstat > Segmentation Fault) > > > On Thu, 23 Oct 2003, Ryan Ware wrote: > > > > > > > > Doing the right thing is not easy because it's all > relative to the > > > perspective, and therein lies the problem. > > > > > > You quoted the "gray area" of, "I only stole a little money." > > > If your > > > pockets are lined, and you have plenty, then the petty > theft would > > > certainly be wrong. But what of the thief who steals in > the name of > > > survival? His pockets are empty, he has nothing, and he > > > hasn't eaten in > > > days. Now what? Is it still wrong? It depends upon who you > > > are: the > > > thief (right) or the one from whom he stole (wrong). > > > > > > > > Does any of this have anything to do with Linux? > > what does not clipping your posts have to do with linux? :) > > Munir Nassar > RedConcepts.NET > http://redconcepts.net/ > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Thu Oct 23 07:15:22 2003 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (Johnny Fulcrum) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] random reboots In-Reply-To: <20031020090749.74565d1c.william.layer@comcast.net> References: <3F93EC60.8060206@druswanderings.net> <20031020090749.74565d1c.william.layer@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:07:49 -0500, Bill Layer wrote: > On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:15:40 -0500 > Johnny Fulcrum wrote: > >> It's rebooted on me twice this morning - I did mess with my desktop >> backgrounds - one of them was a program called worldclock - after the >> first reboot - I got rid of that background and changed them all back to >> plain old two color blended backgrounds... > > Reboot as in shutdown -r now, or as in a sudden coldstart? sudden coldstart.... > > If nothing has changed but the OS, it sounds like a driver isn't playing > well with a piece of hardware. Any device on the PCI or ISA bus can > more-or-less 'panic' and hit the reset line, which coldstarts the system. > > Video drivers & network drivers are a good place to look, assuming the > hardware is not damaged or misconfigured. > I tried memtest86 - as someone mentioned - it seems to get stuck at test #6: Test 6 [Modulo 20, ones&zeros, cached] Using the Modulo-X algorithm should uncover errors that are not detected by moving inversions due to cache and buffering interference with the the algorithm. As with test one only ones and zeros are used for data patterns. I let it "run" for about an hour - tonight I'll let it run all night. Maybe the test just takes a long time.... I haven't changed video/network drivers for a long time... but will double check things... > -L > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Thu Oct 23 09:52:05 2003 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:28 2005 Subject: [OT] [TCLUG] Beg the question [Was: Tools != Crime] In-Reply-To: <3F975C2B.1040903@cleosci.com> References: <20031022135348.GB22585@wookimus.net> <1066840697.15243.85.camel@lotsa> <3F96B6B2.3D879813@ppdonline.com> <3F96E074.4050806@visi.com> <3F975C2B.1040903@cleosci.com> Message-ID: <20031023145205.GA31808@mail.el-swifto.com> On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 11:42:19PM -0500, gkrueger wrote: [snip] > ... This now begs the question, "which one was/is the safe speed?" Please don't do that. http://www.quinion.com/words/qa/qa-beg1.htm http://www.roomours.co.uk/ryder3.htm -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Thu Oct 23 10:03:56 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Backing up NTFS w/ Mondo Message-ID: <20031023150356.GA4969@fandre.com> Anyone know if it's possible to backup a Win2k system with Mondo? (without linux installed) Any Linux bootable CDs with Mondo? Knoppix? BBC? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Thu Oct 23 10:43:55 2003 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Backing up NTFS w/ Mondo In-Reply-To: <20031023150356.GA4969@fandre.com> References: <20031023150356.GA4969@fandre.com> Message-ID: <20031023104355.A14945@baker.space.umn.edu> On Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 10:03:56AM -0500, Clay Fandre wrote: > Anyone know if it's possible to backup a Win2k system with Mondo? > (without linux installed) Any Linux bootable CDs with Mondo? Knoppix? > BBC? Google says that mondo is on Knoppix. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Thu Oct 23 11:38:11 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Backing up NTFS w/ Mondo In-Reply-To: <20031023150356.GA4969@fandre.com> References: <20031023150356.GA4969@fandre.com> Message-ID: <20031023113811.00000b53.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:03:56 -0500 Clay Fandre wrote: > Anyone know if it's possible to backup a Win2k system with Mondo? Not sure if it does it directly, but I back up my Windows My Documents directories by creating samba mount points on the Linux box and using whatever backup tool to back that up. (rsync for me). Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ben.neigebauer at compellent.com Thu Oct 23 10:39:32 2003 From: ben.neigebauer at compellent.com (Neigebauer, Ben) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cheap 3WARE Controllers Message-ID: <146431CFD07FE94984B432636FCDF8060FB886@C1MAIL1.agiliti.net> I found this and though I would post it to the list. 3WARE DiskSwitch AccelerATA 8 port UDMA100 EIDE RAID Card $59.99 http://www.softwareandstuff.com/CRD10119.html Please forgive if not acceptable to post like this. Benjamin E. Neigebauer Software Engineer Compellent Technologies Eden Prairie, MN 55344 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 4180 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031023/b13f56a8/attachment.bin From cdf123 at cdf123.com Thu Oct 23 13:53:59 2003 From: cdf123 at cdf123.com (Chris Frederick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Find and replace in files with RegEx Message-ID: <3F9823C7.4030700@cdf123.com> Hey gang, This may have been covered before, but I was wondering how I can find and replace in files. I've seen a couple of ways to do this, but the ones I've tried are botched up in some way. Here's an example of what I'd like to do: /dir contains about 150 files in it. egrep "/^[ \t]some (fancy[.]+regex).*$/" *.files - shows 20 files with matching lines. I'd like to "s/^[ \t]some .+(fancy.+regex).*$/\1/" on those files. a script like this is doable: for file in dir ex "+:g/find/s//replace/" "+:wq" file but I can't help but think there's a better way, and one with more features like being able to recurse through directories, or is faster, etc. Is there a egrep/grep/etc tool that can do this? Or what tool would you recommend? Thanks in advance... Chris Frederick _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From JAustad at temgweb.com Thu Oct 23 14:03:50 2003 From: JAustad at temgweb.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] perl, /dev/tty, and pipes Message-ID: <288FAF5565A1A74EA5E35C39E7EE1D420A1BDC96@mail.temgweb.com> I have this portion of code in a perl script: #!/usr/bin/perl # open(TTY, "+/dev/tty 2>&1"; When I run it from the command line, it works fine. However, when I pipe data into the script or run it through inetd, I get the following error: [root@myhost /]# telnet localhost 24 Trying 127.0.0.1... Connected to localhost. Escape character is '^]'. no tty: Device not configured at /usr/sbin/spoof.pl line 4. Connection closed by foreign host. [root@myhost /]# Apparently this is because there is no controlling terminal when I use a pipe or use inetd. How do I trick it into thinking there is a controlling terminal? Can I start the perl script through some other trickery, like "bash -i -c /usr/sbin/myscript.pl"? (this didn't work btw) The reason I'm using the above, is I need to read input coming in character by character. Someone mentioned awhile back that screen had some trickery that you could use to get around this. But I can't find any info. Any solutions? -jay _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chrome at real-time.com Thu Oct 23 14:13:10 2003 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:28 2005 Subject: reading/writing NTFS from linux (was: Re: [TCLUG] Backing up NTFS w/ Mondo) In-Reply-To: <20031023113811.00000b53.josh@trutwins.homeip.net>; from josh@trutwins.homeip.net on Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 11:38:11AM -0500 References: <20031023150356.GA4969@fandre.com> <20031023113811.00000b53.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: <20031023141310.M31881@real-time.com> On 10/23 11:38 , Josh Trutwin wrote: > On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:03:56 -0500 > Clay Fandre wrote: > > > Anyone know if it's possible to backup a Win2k system with Mondo? just saw this go across freshmeat today. no idea how well it works, but it is NTFS related and may be useful for backups. http://www.jankratochvil.net/project/captive/ Captive: NTFS filesystem, MS-Windows NT kernel emulation The first free full read/write access to NTFS disk drives was achieved in the Wine way by using the original Microsoft Windows ntfs.sys driver. It emulates the required subsystems of the Microsoft Windows kernel by reusing one of the original ntoskrnl.exe, ReactOS parts, or this project's own reimplementations, on a case by case basis. Involvement of the original driver files was chosen to achieve the best and unprecedented filesystem compatibility and safety. Carl. -- Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Thu Oct 23 14:22:21 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Find and replace in files with RegEx In-Reply-To: <3F9823C7.4030700@cdf123.com> References: <3F9823C7.4030700@cdf123.com> Message-ID: <1066936940.11966.208.camel@unixws1> for X in `ls -1`; do sed s/Search/Replace/g $X > $X.tmp mv $X.tmp $X done ?? Backup, test, and backup again before trying it :) On Thu, 2003-10-23 at 13:53, Chris Frederick wrote: > Hey gang, > > This may have been covered before, but I was wondering how I can find > and replace in files. I've seen a couple of ways to do this, but the > ones I've tried are botched up in some way. Here's an example of what > I'd like to do: > > /dir contains about 150 files in it. > egrep "/^[ \t]some (fancy[.]+regex).*$/" *.files - shows 20 files with > matching lines. > I'd like to "s/^[ \t]some .+(fancy.+regex).*$/\1/" on those files. > > a script like this is doable: > for file in dir > ex "+:g/find/s//replace/" "+:wq" file > > but I can't help but think there's a better way, and one with more > features like being able to recurse through directories, or is faster, > etc. Is there a egrep/grep/etc tool that can do this? Or what tool > would you recommend? > > Thanks in advance... > Chris Frederick > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dru at druswanderings.net Thu Oct 23 14:25:35 2003 From: dru at druswanderings.net (The Wandering Dru) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] new vi tutorial Message-ID: <3F982B2F.4070603@druswanderings.net> From the You-May-Hate-It-But-It's-Good-To-Know-It-Anyway department: IBM has put up a newbie tutorial for our favorite/not so favorite editor, vi. A right good toe-dippin' experience in my estimation. It requires free registration but they have enough good stuff on their developerworks pages that it's worth it anyway. Anyhoo, without further ado... https://www6.software.ibm.com/reg/devworks/dw-linuxvi-i?S_TACT=103AMW61&S_CMP=GR&ca=dgr-lnxw12viIntro just spreadin' the love... :) -- The Wandering Dru http://druswanderings.net <--- Things 'n' Such Get nifty TCLUG merchandise at the TCLUG Store! http://www.cafeshops.com/tclug _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chrome at real-time.com Thu Oct 23 14:17:55 2003 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Backing up NTFS w/ Mondo In-Reply-To: <20031023113811.00000b53.josh@trutwins.homeip.net>; from josh@trutwins.homeip.net on Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 11:38:11AM -0500 References: <20031023150356.GA4969@fandre.com> <20031023113811.00000b53.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: <20031023141755.N31881@real-time.com> On 10/23 11:38 , Josh Trutwin wrote: > On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:03:56 -0500 > Clay Fandre wrote: > > > Anyone know if it's possible to backup a Win2k system with Mondo? mondo used to have support for backing up arbitrary OS partitions, including being able to write a bootloader for Windows. (Hugo Rabson wrote his own bootloader tool for windows, so that restores would work right for it). he has since removed the code, since it could concievably be used to clone Windows images; and he doesn't want the hot legal water that could entail. this spawned a long and legalistic thread on the mondo-devel mailing list; if you're interested in the details, try consulting that. this information is a bit out of date and incomplete tho; I largely ignored the whole buisness since I don't have any Windows partitions that I want to back up. (Windows really ought to be reinstalled on a regular basis anyway). So don't blame me too hard if you later find out I'm wrong. :) Carl Soderstrom. -- Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kbongers at mninter.net Thu Oct 23 14:30:59 2003 From: kbongers at mninter.net (Karl Bongers) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] perl, /dev/tty, and pipes In-Reply-To: <288FAF5565A1A74EA5E35C39E7EE1D420A1BDC96@mail.temgweb.com> References: <288FAF5565A1A74EA5E35C39E7EE1D420A1BDC96@mail.temgweb.com> Message-ID: <20031023193059.GA9916@karl> Hi Jay, You can look to see if you are working on a tty device, in c: isatty(fd), with perl I've read "-t /dev/fname" may work, or there is a POSIX::isatty(). So I'd suggest: if (-t STDIN) { # its a tty device # do funky calls to turn off line buffering and echo. # check out POSIX:Termios as one way to do this. } &do_your_io; if (-t STDIN) { # maybe restore it settings. } On Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 02:03:50PM -0500, Austad, Jay wrote: > I have this portion of code in a perl script: > #!/usr/bin/perl > # > open(TTY, "+ system "stty -echo cbreak /dev/tty 2>&1"; > > When I run it from the command line, it works fine. However, when I pipe > data into the script or run it through inetd, I get the following error: > > [root@myhost /]# telnet localhost 24 > Trying 127.0.0.1... > Connected to localhost. > Escape character is '^]'. > no tty: Device not configured at /usr/sbin/spoof.pl line 4. > Connection closed by foreign host. > [root@myhost /]# > > Apparently this is because there is no controlling terminal when I use a > pipe or use inetd. How do I trick it into thinking there is a controlling > terminal? Can I start the perl script through some other trickery, like > "bash -i -c /usr/sbin/myscript.pl"? (this didn't work btw) > > The reason I'm using the above, is I need to read input coming in character > by character. Someone mentioned awhile back that screen had some trickery > that you could use to get around this. But I can't find any info. Any > solutions? > > -jay _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tanner at mn-linux.org Thu Oct 23 16:29:37 2003 From: tanner at mn-linux.org (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] syslog over ssh? In-Reply-To: <3F96C8DB.9070108@andersonfam.org> References: <3F96C8DB.9070108@andersonfam.org> Message-ID: <200310231629.37216@Twin.Cities.Linux.Users.Group-www.mn-linux.org> On Wednesday 22 October 2003 01:13 pm, Erik Anderson wrote: > Here's my question...I have a linux box on my LAN that is recieving all > of the syslogs from all of my servers (Linux, NT, & Otherwise). I > recently installed a new webserver outside of our LAN, and was wondering > how best to, if possible, get the logs back to my main logging server. > > The only scenario that I've come up with so far is to open an ssh > connection from the logging server to the webserver and use remote port > forwarding to get the logs back. Is this possible? Is there a better > way? For some reason, I have in my head that ssh port forwarding only > works for tcp ports... Syslog needs to be re-written, with security and scalability in mind. http://security.sdsc.edu/software/sdsc-syslog/ -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 http://www.linuxjustworks.com | Linux Just Works! Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tanner at real-time.com Thu Oct 23 16:51:53 2003 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Exim4+mailman-2.1 = error in ACL: unknown ACL condition/modifier Message-ID: <200310231651.53899@Twin.Cities.Linux.Users.Group-www.mn-linux.org> 2003-10-23 17:23:15 Exim configuration error in line 322: error in ACL: unknown ACL condition/modifier in "{exists {/var/mailman/lists/$1/config.pck}}} {yes}{no}}" The above error comes from a cut-n-past of exim4 wth Mailman-2.1 via this url http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html warn message = X-WhitelistedRCPT-nohdrfromcallback: Yes condition = \ ${if and {{match{$local_part}{(.*)-bounces\+.*}} {exists {MAILMAN_HOME/lists/$1/config.pck}}} \ {yes}{no}} {yes}{no}} I cannot seem to find the syntax for exists filter command either. Anyone see something wrong with this filter? -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From JAustad at temgweb.com Thu Oct 23 14:39:53 2003 From: JAustad at temgweb.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] perl, /dev/tty, and pipes Message-ID: <288FAF5565A1A74EA5E35C39E7EE1D420A1BDC98@mail.temgweb.com> The problem is, when called through inetd, there is no controlling tty for the script, so it fails. I need to figure out how to create a controlling tty when calling it through inetd. -jay > -----Original Message----- > From: Karl Bongers [mailto:kbongers@mninter.net] > Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 2:31 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] perl, /dev/tty, and pipes > > > Hi Jay, You can look to see if you are working on a tty device, > in c: isatty(fd), with perl I've read "-t /dev/fname" may work, > or there is a POSIX::isatty(). So I'd suggest: > if (-t STDIN) { > # its a tty device > # do funky calls to turn off line buffering and echo. > # check out POSIX:Termios as one way to do this. > } > > &do_your_io; > > if (-t STDIN) { > # maybe restore it settings. > } > > On Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 02:03:50PM -0500, Austad, Jay wrote: > > I have this portion of code in a perl script: > > #!/usr/bin/perl > > # > > open(TTY, "+ > system "stty -echo cbreak /dev/tty 2>&1"; > > > > When I run it from the command line, it works fine. > However, when I pipe > > data into the script or run it through inetd, I get the > following error: > > > > [root@myhost /]# telnet localhost 24 > > Trying 127.0.0.1... > > Connected to localhost. > > Escape character is '^]'. > > no tty: Device not configured at /usr/sbin/spoof.pl line 4. > > Connection closed by foreign host. > > [root@myhost /]# > > > > Apparently this is because there is no controlling terminal > when I use a > > pipe or use inetd. How do I trick it into thinking there > is a controlling > > terminal? Can I start the perl script through some other > trickery, like > > "bash -i -c /usr/sbin/myscript.pl"? (this didn't work btw) > > > > The reason I'm using the above, is I need to read input > coming in character > > by character. Someone mentioned awhile back that screen > had some trickery > > that you could use to get around this. But I can't find > any info. Any > > solutions? > > > > -jay > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tanner at mn-linux.org Thu Oct 23 17:00:19 2003 From: tanner at mn-linux.org (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apologies: VERP on by accident Message-ID: <200310231700.19928@Twin.Cities.Linux.Users.Group-www.mn-linux.org> I apologize. In my cutting and pasting of configuration stuff, I accidently turned on VERP in mailman, which is probably going to cause so problems with people's procmail rules. I have shut VERP off, so things should be back to "normal". I'd like to thank Nate (refried) for his help troubleshooting the problem. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 http://www.linuxjustworks.com | Linux Just Works! Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nate at refried.org Thu Oct 23 15:51:17 2003 From: nate at refried.org (nate@refried.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Find and replace in files with RegEx In-Reply-To: <3F9823C7.4030700@cdf123.com> References: <3F9823C7.4030700@cdf123.com> Message-ID: <20031023205117.GA21087@refried.org> On Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 01:53:59PM -0500, Chris Frederick wrote: > a script like this is doable: > for file in dir > ex "+:g/find/s//replace/" "+:wq" file > > but I can't help but think there's a better way, and one with more > features like being able to recurse through directories, or is faster, > etc. Is there a egrep/grep/etc tool that can do this? Or what tool > would you recommend? If you want to do things in-place you're already really close. I would suggest using find to get the full list of files you want, grep those for the files that need editting, then use ex to do the change. Something like this for file in `find /somedir -type f | grep -l `; do ex $file done Nate _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erik at andersonfam.org Thu Oct 23 16:12:11 2003 From: erik at andersonfam.org (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] finer-grained memory information? Message-ID: <3F98442B.8010606@andersonfam.org> I'm wondering if it's possible to get fairly fine-grained information on memory usage on a per-process basis. It would be great if I could check how much stack memory and/or heap the process is using. I have looked into the per-process information that's in /proc, but have been unable to get any usable information there. I'm looking for something with greater detail than ps/top give. Thanks! -Erik _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From list at slushpupie.com Thu Oct 23 16:18:10 2003 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Find and replace in files with RegEx In-Reply-To: <1066936940.11966.208.camel@unixws1> References: <3F9823C7.4030700@cdf123.com> <1066936940.11966.208.camel@unixws1> Message-ID: <73704c2e3e04ad92e27cb26960de95cf@slushpupie.com> This has problems if you have spaces in your filenames. find /path -exec perl -pi.bak -e 's/Search/Replace/g' \{\} \; Then remove the .bak files. If you are brave, try it without the .bak (no backups) Jay On October 23, 2:22 pm Adam Maloney wrote: > for X in `ls -1`; do > sed s/Search/Replace/g $X > $X.tmp > mv $X.tmp $X > done > > ?? > > Backup, test, and backup again before trying it :) > > On Thu, 2003-10-23 at 13:53, Chris Frederick wrote: > > Hey gang, > > > > This may have been covered before, but I was wondering how I can find > > and replace in files. I've seen a couple of ways to do this, but the > > ones I've tried are botched up in some way. Here's an example of > > what I'd like to do: > > > > /dir contains about 150 files in it. > > egrep "/^[ \t]some (fancy[.]+regex).*$/" *.files - shows 20 files > > with matching lines. > > I'd like to "s/^[ \t]some .+(fancy.+regex).*$/\1/" on those files. > > > > a script like this is doable: > > for file in dir > > ex "+:g/find/s//replace/" "+:wq" file > > > > but I can't help but think there's a better way, and one with more > > features like being able to recurse through directories, or is > > faster, etc. Is there a egrep/grep/etc tool that can do this? Or > > what tool would you recommend? > > > > Thanks in advance... > > Chris Frederick > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Oct 23 19:10:09 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] new vi tutorial In-Reply-To: <3F982B2F.4070603@druswanderings.net> References: <3F982B2F.4070603@druswanderings.net> Message-ID: <3F986DE1.70904@visi.com> I like vi at least, I'm not so happy with the "I Been Mauled". Sam. The Wandering Dru wrote: > From the You-May-Hate-It-But-It's-Good-To-Know-It-Anyway department: > > IBM has put up a newbie tutorial for our favorite/not so favorite > editor, vi. A right good toe-dippin' experience in my estimation. It > requires free registration but they have enough good stuff on their > developerworks pages that it's worth it anyway. > > Anyhoo, without further ado... > > https://www6.software.ibm.com/reg/devworks/dw-linuxvi-i?S_TACT=103AMW61&S_CMP=GR&ca=dgr-lnxw12viIntro > > > just spreadin' the love... :) > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Thu Oct 23 19:40:11 2003 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (johnnyfulcrum@mn.rr.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] best way to install linux on 50 + old desktops Message-ID: <44e7c43b57.43b5744e7c@rdc-kc.rr.com> I have 50 + pentium I desktops that are blank (16mb Ram and up) - I'd like to load linux on them before I ship them off for a volunteer program I participate in. I was thinking of a "net" or NFS install from my lan of deb ... I'd like to be able to just stick in a floppy, let it boot and start the install with pre-defined software choices and let linux best guess the partitioning and move to the next computer - I'd like to not have to plug in keyboard and mice and monitor, (?). thoughts on the best way to accomplish this? Don't want to start a flame(r) war on distoros either... but are there better suited distros for what I want to do ? thanks johnnyf _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Thu Oct 23 19:47:02 2003 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (johnnyfulcrum@mn.rr.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] best way to install linux on 50 + old desktops Message-ID: <425fa41a83.41a83425fa@rdc-kc.rr.com> Hey Johnny - you idiot how could you overlook NAIS??? http://nais.sourceforge.net/ How come after googling at work most of the day and coming up with nothing -and then, only after asking the group do you hit upon the google phrase that produces fruit? "installing linux on many computers" .. duh... sorry everyone.... found some info to get me going in the right direction.... :) ----- Original Message ----- From: johnnyfulcrum@mn.rr.com Date: Thursday, October 23, 2003 7:40 pm Subject: [TCLUG] best way to install linux on 50 + old desktops > > I have 50 + pentium I desktops that are blank (16mb Ram and up) - > I'd like to load linux on them before I ship them off for a > volunteer program I participate in. > > I was thinking of a "net" or NFS install from my lan of deb ... > I'd like to be able to just stick in a floppy, let it boot and > start the install with pre-defined software choices and let linux > best guess the partitioning and move to the next computer - I'd > like to not have to plug in keyboard and mice and monitor, (?). > > thoughts on the best way to accomplish this? Don't want to start > a flame(r) war on distoros either... but are there better suited > distros for what I want to do ? > > thanks > johnnyf > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chrome at real-time.com Thu Oct 23 20:12:53 2003 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:29 2005 Subject: Tools != Crime (was Re: [TCLUG] Netstat Segmentation Fault) In-Reply-To: <3F96E074.4050806@visi.com>; from smac@visi.com on Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 02:54:28PM -0500 References: <20031022135348.GB22585@wookimus.net> <1066840697.15243.85.camel@lotsa> <3F96B6B2.3D879813@ppdonline.com> <3F96E074.4050806@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031023201253.B14261@real-time.com> On 10/22 02:54 , Sam MacDonald wrote: > I did not say to "ban" the software. > I said it's irresponsible do distribute it in the way they are doing > it. I said the people who use it for evil piss-me-off. > > We need the tools but we don't "LEGALLY" sell guns to criminals or > minors. We require minors to be educated about guns if they will use > them for sport shooting. I believe part of the solution to a lot of the problems we have with modern technology (firearms, cracker tools), is education. We teach kids in school how dangerous sex and drugs are (which is not the same thing as educating them properly, but that's another debate); why don't we teach them firearms safety and computer safety? Once people understand something; they're less likely to be afraid of it, and they're less likely to misuse it. Once you learn how dangerous guns can be, and how unlike they are in the movies; you're less likely to misuse them. Conversely, you're also better able to appreciate their value as a tool for sport and defense. Once you learn how to install and secure your OS, you can better appreciate what a pain it is for someone to get their computer cracked; and when you help other people secure their boxen, you learn the value of being helpful instead of destructive, and make a positive contribution to society. My thoughts on why this isn't being done in our schools, are a topic for another day, and way too off-topic for this list. :) Carl Soderstrom. -- Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From patrickm at citilink.com Thu Oct 23 14:30:06 2003 From: patrickm at citilink.com (Patrick McCabe) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Find and replace in files with RegEx In-Reply-To: <3F9823C7.4030700@cdf123.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20031023142712.020757e8@mail.citilink.com> This is easy in perl. For example, perl -i.bak -e 's/this/that/g' *.files Does in-place replacements, saving the original versions with .bak extension. Patrick McCabe At 01:53 PM 10/23/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Hey gang, > >This may have been covered before, but I was wondering how I can find and >replace in files. I've seen a couple of ways to do this, but the ones >I've tried are botched up in some way. Here's an example of what I'd like >to do: > >/dir contains about 150 files in it. >egrep "/^[ \t]some (fancy[.]+regex).*$/" *.files - shows 20 files with >matching lines. >I'd like to "s/^[ \t]some .+(fancy.+regex).*$/\1/" on those files. > >a script like this is doable: >for file in dir > ex "+:g/find/s//replace/" "+:wq" file > >but I can't help but think there's a better way, and one with more >features like being able to recurse through directories, or is faster, >etc. Is there a egrep/grep/etc tool that can do this? Or what tool would >you recommend? > >Thanks in advance... >Chris Frederick > > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Thu Oct 23 20:22:24 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Find and replace in files with RegEx In-Reply-To: <20031023205117.GA21087@refried.org> References: <3F9823C7.4030700@cdf123.com> <20031023205117.GA21087@refried.org> Message-ID: <3F987ED0.8060507@eworld3.net> nate@refried.org wrote: > On Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 01:53:59PM -0500, Chris Frederick wrote: > >>a script like this is doable: >>for file in dir >> ex "+:g/find/s//replace/" "+:wq" file >> >>but I can't help but think there's a better way, and one with more >>features like being able to recurse through directories, or is faster, >>etc. Is there a egrep/grep/etc tool that can do this? Or what tool >>would you recommend? > > > If you want to do things in-place you're already really close. I would > suggest using find to get the full list of files you want, grep those > for the files that need editting, then use ex to do the change. > > Something like this > > for file in `find /somedir -type f | grep -l `; do > ex $file > done > If you want a big speed improvement add xargs like this: for file in $(find /somedir -type f | xargs grep -l ); do I prefer the $(command...) notation. It's a little easier to read at the end of a long day. -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff rick@eworld3.net 952-929-1659 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Thu Oct 23 21:27:53 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PBS's "I, Cringely" strikes again.... Message-ID: <3F988E29.1080507@comcast.net> Did anyone else catch the mention of "I, Cringely" on Slashdot? Here's the URL, in case you didn't: http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20031023.html Very nice slam of Balmer. I'm glad more writers are getting a clue about Open Source, instead of blindly following/believing whatever crap comes out of Redmond. -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Thu Oct 23 23:38:03 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [SOLVED] Apache SSL and iptables NAT? In-Reply-To: <3F95A37B.3020202@bitstream.net> References: <20031021152239.00003280.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> <3F95A37B.3020202@bitstream.net> Message-ID: <20031023233803.00000873.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> > Try this: > > iptables -A INPUT -d 24.16.106.242 -j ACCEPT > iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -d 24.16.106.242 --dport 443 -j DNAT --to > 192.168.0.3 Finally found a late night to work on the firewall. This works with one minor exception, needs -p tcp: iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -p tcp -d 24.16.106.242 --dport 443 -j DNAT --to 192.168.0.3 Rule is ignored without it. Is there anything iptables cannot do? :) Thanks! Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jack at jacku.com Thu Oct 23 23:53:38 2003 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PBS's "I, Cringely" strikes again.... In-Reply-To: <3F988E29.1080507@comcast.net> References: <3F988E29.1080507@comcast.net> Message-ID: <200310232353.39038.jack@jacku.com> On Thursday 23 October 2003 09:27 pm, Todd Young wrote: > Did anyone else catch the mention of "I, Cringely" on Slashdot? > > Here's the URL, in case you didn't: > http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20031023.html > > Very nice slam of Balmer. I'm glad more writers are getting a clue about > Open Source, instead of blindly following/believing whatever crap comes > out of Redmond. This suggestion is for Todd and anyone else who reads and likes this column. Go back and read more of Cringley. He's never been a big Bill Gates/Microsoft fan. If you want a sense of some of the recent legal struggles for the Boys in Redmond, go into the Archive section and look for the article "Why the Richest Company on Earth Feels it Needs to Cheat" (Aug 28, 2003 column). -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kbongers at mninter.net Fri Oct 24 00:23:08 2003 From: kbongers at mninter.net (Karl Bongers) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] perl, /dev/tty, and pipes In-Reply-To: <288FAF5565A1A74EA5E35C39E7EE1D420A1BDC98@mail.temgweb.com> References: <288FAF5565A1A74EA5E35C39E7EE1D420A1BDC98@mail.temgweb.com> Message-ID: <20031024052308.GA1139@duron.turboland.com> On Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 02:39:53PM -0500, Austad, Jay wrote: > The problem is, when called through inetd, there is no controlling tty for > the script, so it fails. I need to figure out how to create a controlling > tty when calling it through inetd. tty's are over-rated(they are so controlling!), sockets have more fun. Try this: #!/usr/bin/perl use POSIX; if (-t STDIN) { print "Using a tty\n"; # don't want to do it this way, that would be too easy! # system "stty", '-icanon', 'eol', "\001"; # save the original settings for later restore $org_termios = POSIX::Termios->new(STDIN); $org_termios->getattr(); # turn off echo, linebuffering, man tcgetattr for details.. $termios = POSIX::Termios->new(STDIN); $termios->getattr(); $l_flag = $termios->getlflag(); $termios->setlflag($l_flag & ~(&POSIX::ICANON) ); $termios->setattr(); } else { printf("not a tty\n"); } print "Press a key:"; $c = getc(); printf ("\nYou pressed $c\n"); if (-t STDIN) { # restore our tty to how we found it. $org_termios->setattr(); } > > On Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 02:03:50PM -0500, Austad, Jay wrote: > > > I have this portion of code in a perl script: > > > #!/usr/bin/perl > > > # > > > open(TTY, "+ > > system "stty -echo cbreak /dev/tty 2>&1"; > > > > > > When I run it from the command line, it works fine. > > However, when I pipe > > > data into the script or run it through inetd, I get the > > following error: > > > > > > [root@myhost /]# telnet localhost 24 > > > Trying 127.0.0.1... > > > Connected to localhost. > > > Escape character is '^]'. > > > no tty: Device not configured at /usr/sbin/spoof.pl line 4. > > > Connection closed by foreign host. > > > [root@myhost /]# > > > > > > Apparently this is because there is no controlling terminal > > when I use a > > > pipe or use inetd. How do I trick it into thinking there > > is a controlling > > > terminal? Can I start the perl script through some other > > trickery, like > > > "bash -i -c /usr/sbin/myscript.pl"? (this didn't work btw) > > > > > > The reason I'm using the above, is I need to read input > > coming in character > > > by character. Someone mentioned awhile back that screen > > had some trickery > > > that you could use to get around this. But I can't find > > any info. Any > > > solutions? > > > > > > -jay _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gkrueger at cleosci.com Fri Oct 24 00:25:20 2003 From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (gkrueger) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PBS's "I, Cringely" strikes again.... References: <3F988E29.1080507@comcast.net> <200310232353.39038.jack@jacku.com> Message-ID: <3F98B7C0.7070004@cleosci.com> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Fri Oct 24 08:00:50 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PBS's "I, Cringely" strikes again.... In-Reply-To: <3F988E29.1080507@comcast.net> References: <3F988E29.1080507@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3F992282.2090900@visi.com> I don't remember the name of the industry rag he did a column in, I waited for it every month and read his column first. Cringley is a writer that found information technology to be interesting. He learned about technology and the technology industry. He has maintained an unbiased point of view and has put the screws to almost every promenent person in the industry. I loved his documentary, it is a little dated today, however it is an execlent histroy lesson. It would be great if he did another documentary but with the state of the industry, I don't know if he could say anything positive. As an "industry" I/T is in a sorry state at this point in time. I can't find much that I would say is positive. I'm _not_ saying the people who do the programming, engineering, and support are in a sorry state. I'm saying the executive. management, and financial people are in a sorry state. Sam. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Fri Oct 24 08:52:36 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] syslog over ssh? Message-ID: Amen! >>> tanner@mn-linux.org 10/23/03 04:29PM >>> Syslog needs to be re-written, with security and scalability in mind. http://security.sdsc.edu/software/sdsc-syslog/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From veldy at veldy.net Fri Oct 24 08:58:45 2003 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Bogofilter Message-ID: <00e701c39a36$f0e9ee00$d037630a@nic.target.com> I have bogofilter setup on my email server and it is beginning to learn the good mail from the spam. I am wondering about maintenance of the database. Does anybody out there perform regular maintanence on the bogofilter database? If so, what do you do, age out old data? How many days? Thanks in advance, Tom Veldhouse _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dru at druswanderings.net Fri Oct 24 09:10:27 2003 From: dru at druswanderings.net (The Wandering Dru) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Bogofilter In-Reply-To: <00e701c39a36$f0e9ee00$d037630a@nic.target.com> References: <00e701c39a36$f0e9ee00$d037630a@nic.target.com> Message-ID: <3F9932D3.5050400@druswanderings.net> Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote: > I have bogofilter setup on my email server and it is beginning to learn the > good mail from the spam. I am wondering about maintenance of the database. > Does anybody out there perform regular maintanence on the bogofilter > database? If so, what do you do, age out old data? How many days? > You shouldn't do any maintenance on it at all other than the training and corrections made by re-running the misclassified ones back through(or performance tweaks if you really want to get down and dirty). There really isn't such a thing as "old data" with a spam filter database. The more data you have, the better your filter will be. You can look at the data using bogoutils if you want to see how things are set up in the files but there really isn't that much danger of the database growing exceptionally large. I've run over 40,000 emails through mine and my databases combined are less than 16MB. It's a well documented program and just about everything you need to make it work well is in the docs. If it isn't, I think they run a mailing list too. -- The Wandering Dru http://druswanderings.net <--- Things 'n' Such Get nifty TCLUG merchandise at the TCLUG Store! http://www.cafeshops.com/tclug _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Fri Oct 24 10:18:51 2003 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] BarbieOS Message-ID: <20031024151850.GA20884@mail.el-swifto.com> http://qrxx.4t.com/barbieOS.htm ... BarbieOS 1.0 is the result of almost a year's worth of marketing research into what pre-adolescent girls want in a mobile Linux solution aimed at being a desktop replacement. ... Apparently the preteen set prefers Debian? -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Jeffrey.Rasmussen at HFA-MN.ORG Fri Oct 24 10:25:09 2003 From: Jeffrey.Rasmussen at HFA-MN.ORG (Jeffery Rasmussen) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] BarbieOS Message-ID: Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sulrich at botwerks.org Fri Oct 24 10:36:26 2003 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] BarbieOS In-Reply-To: <20031024151850.GA20884@mail.el-swifto.com> References: <20031024151850.GA20884@mail.el-swifto.com> Message-ID: <20031024153626.GA24254@botwerks.org> when last we saw our hero (Friday, Oct 24, 2003), John J. Trammell was madly tapping out: > http://qrxx.4t.com/barbieOS.htm > > ... BarbieOS 1.0 is the result of almost a year's worth of > marketing research into what pre-adolescent girls want in a mobile > Linux solution aimed at being a desktop replacement. ... > > Apparently the preteen set prefers Debian? eventually they grow up. ;-) -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bradyh at bitstream.net Fri Oct 24 10:46:43 2003 From: bradyh at bitstream.net (bradyh@bitstream.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] BarbieOS In-Reply-To: <20031024151850.GA20884@mail.el-swifto.com> References: <20031024151850.GA20884@mail.el-swifto.com> Message-ID: <1067010403.3f994963802c7@mail.bitstream.net> I'm loading it on my server cluster tonight. Hell, if Mattel can make it so that 8 year old girls can't crash it then it must be rock solid... > http://qrxx.4t.com/barbieOS.htm > > ... BarbieOS 1.0 is the result of almost a year's worth of marketing > research into what pre-adolescent girls want in a mobile Linux solution > aimed at being a desktop replacement. ... > > Apparently the preteen set prefers Debian? > > -- > trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 > Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cxobert at goldengate.net Fri Oct 24 10:02:30 2003 From: cxobert at goldengate.net (Charlie Obert) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Is it worth upgrading? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F993F06.4080309@goldengate.net> I started with Linux back in March of this year. Currently I have two machines, one with Mandrake 9.1, one with Slackware 9.0, and both are set up, talking to each other and running well. And now we have Mandrake 9.2 and Slackware 9.1 fresh out. This is the first time I need to decide if I should upgrade either or both systems. I know in the M$ world there is hell (and Redmond) to pay if you push off upgrading for too long. I don't know if it's the same in the Linux world, or if I should just stay with systems that are working well and doing what I need. Does anyone have any thoughts on the upgrading issue, either in general or with Mandrake and/or Slackware in particular? -- Cheers, Charlie Obert " There is no energy crisis, food crisis or environmental crisis. There is only a crisis of ignorance." - R. Buckminster Fuller _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From veldy at veldy.net Fri Oct 24 11:09:57 2003 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Is it worth upgrading? References: <3F993F06.4080309@goldengate.net> Message-ID: <004301c39a49$450f8140$d037630a@nic.target.com> From: "Charlie Obert" Subject: [TCLUG] Is it worth upgrading? > I started with Linux back in March of this year. Currently I have two > machines, one with Mandrake 9.1, one with Slackware 9.0, and both are > set up, talking to each other and running well. > > And now we have Mandrake 9.2 and Slackware 9.1 fresh out. This is the > first time I need to decide if I should upgrade either or both systems. > > I know in the M$ world there is hell (and Redmond) to pay if you push > off upgrading for too long. I don't know if it's the same in the Linux > world, or if I should just stay with systems that are working well and > doing what I need. > > Does anyone have any thoughts on the upgrading issue, either in general > or with Mandrake and/or Slackware in particular? > Unless you have security issues with those machines that require them to be kept up to date, I wouldn't worry about it at all. Tom Veldhouse _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From austad at signal15.com Fri Oct 24 11:23:43 2003 From: austad at signal15.com (Jay Austad) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] help me! In-Reply-To: <004301c39a49$450f8140$d037630a@nic.target.com> References: <3F993F06.4080309@goldengate.net> <004301c39a49$450f8140$d037630a@nic.target.com> Message-ID: <6FB74961-063E-11D8-AF50-00039395531E@signal15.com> I know I should post this to the tclug-jobs list, but I figured not as many people look at it. As of yesterday, I'm looking for a job. If you know of anyone looking for someone with about 10 years of Unix experience and 6 years of very heavy network engineering experience, drop me a line. Thanks guys. -jay _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Fri Oct 24 11:32:56 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] BarbieOS In-Reply-To: <20031024151850.GA20884@mail.el-swifto.com> References: <20031024151850.GA20884@mail.el-swifto.com> Message-ID: <3F995438.1030301@eworld3.net> Very funny and totally bull, I think. I searched Mattel.com and peeked at Barbie.com and did not find any info. No press release, no ISOs, only lots of buzz on the net. But I've been wrong before. John J. Trammell wrote: > http://qrxx.4t.com/barbieOS.htm > > ... BarbieOS 1.0 is the result of almost a year's worth of marketing > research into what pre-adolescent girls want in a mobile Linux solution > aimed at being a desktop replacement. ... > > Apparently the preteen set prefers Debian? > -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff rick@eworld3.net 952-929-1659 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jima at beer.tclug.org Fri Oct 24 11:34:41 2003 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Beer Meeting tonight Message-ID: Yeah, it's late. Yeah, it's weird. Don't shoot the messenger; they might shoot back. ;) --- snip --- A TCLUG beer meeting is a bi-weekly get-together where TCLUG members can get to know one another and share a beer. The beer meetings are open to anyone and everyone, so don't be afraid to show up. When: Friday, October 24, 2003 6pm - 8pm Where: Pizza Luce 119 N 4th St Minneapolis, MN 55401 Details: A popular location. To quote Ein, "gud fud, gud bir, nuf sed." The reservation is in the non-smoking section. Come share a beer (or pop) with fellow geeks. As always, everyone is welcome! Bring a friend, spouse, or co-worker. --- snip --- I can't make it (damn! Luce rocks.), but I'm sure others can. Jima _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jima at beer.tclug.org Fri Oct 24 11:34:41 2003 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] Beer Meeting tonight Message-ID: Yeah, it's late. Yeah, it's weird. Don't shoot the messenger; they might shoot back. ;) --- snip --- A TCLUG beer meeting is a bi-weekly get-together where TCLUG members can get to know one another and share a beer. The beer meetings are open to anyone and everyone, so don't be afraid to show up. When: Friday, October 24, 2003 6pm - 8pm Where: Pizza Luce 119 N 4th St Minneapolis, MN 55401 Details: A popular location. To quote Ein, "gud fud, gud bir, nuf sed." The reservation is in the non-smoking section. Come share a beer (or pop) with fellow geeks. As always, everyone is welcome! Bring a friend, spouse, or co-worker. --- snip --- I can't make it (damn! Luce rocks.), but I'm sure others can. Jima _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Announcements - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-announce mailing list tclug-announce@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com Fri Oct 24 11:36:25 2003 From: Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com (Lansing, Dan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] install failure/lilo hates me Message-ID: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD526FAC9@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> I tried to install slack 9.1 over an existing slack 9.0 install....reformatted the partition and did the install, I found out when I tried to do the install that my cdrom drive is broken.... Now when I boot....at lilo I pick slackware and get Loading Slackware_9.0EBDA too big I have since wised up and just put all needed files on my windows partition and would like to try and repair my slackware install....if I can get into Linux I'm sure I can do this....i have no floppy and my cd does not work....is there anything I can type at the lilo prompt to get in here? Dan Lansing _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Fri Oct 24 11:38:42 2003 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] BarbieOS In-Reply-To: <3F995438.1030301@eworld3.net> References: <20031024151850.GA20884@mail.el-swifto.com> <3F995438.1030301@eworld3.net> Message-ID: <20031024163842.GA22969@mail.el-swifto.com> On Fri, Oct 24, 2003 at 11:32:56AM -0500, Rick Meyerhoff wrote: > Very funny and totally bull, I think. I searched Mattel.com and peeked > at Barbie.com and did not find any info. No press release, no ISOs, only > lots of buzz on the net. > > But I've been wrong before. > I'm pretty sure it's a joke. Still funny! -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net Fri Oct 24 11:47:35 2003 From: scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] install failure/lilo hates me In-Reply-To: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD526FAC9@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com>; from Dan.Lansing@AndersenCorp.com on Fri, Oct 24, 2003 at 11:36:25AM -0500 References: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD526FAC9@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> Message-ID: <20031024114735.B25031@thinkunix.net> How did you get slackware installed initially without a floppy or cdrom? AFAIK you're going to need some other media you can boot from (generally floppy or cdrom) in order to fix the MBR. I suppose you could try booting from a DOS partition via loadlin (assumes you're not running NTFS on your windows partition in a dual boot scenario). It's been a long time since I ran loadlin. I'd try to find a floppy drive that works. If you need one I have some spares. Email me off list if interested. TIP: when installing slackware, always select "Simple" when asked during liloconfig. You can always go back and change it later, but in my experience, selecting "simple" _always_ works. Lansing, Dan wrote: > I tried to install slack 9.1 over an existing slack 9.0 install....reformatted the partition and did the install, I found out when I tried to do the install that my cdrom drive is broken.... > Now when I boot....at lilo I pick slackware and get > Loading Slackware_9.0EBDA too big > I have since wised up and just put all needed files on my windows partition and would like to try and repair my slackware install....if I can get into Linux I'm sure I can do this....i have no floppy and my cd does not work....is there anything I can type at the lilo prompt to get in here? > > Dan Lansing > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com Fri Oct 24 11:51:39 2003 From: Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com (Lansing, Dan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] install failure/lilo hates me Message-ID: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D3765@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> I can .001% of the time get the cd drive to boot....i can get this fixed once I get home but I have been going crazy here at work with no Linux....once I get home I can get a floppy....loadlin is not liking my winxp install....i think the exact error is 'I hate you, hail Microsoft' Something like that Dan Lansing ITSC -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Scot Jenkins Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 11:48 AM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] install failure/lilo hates me How did you get slackware installed initially without a floppy or cdrom? AFAIK you're going to need some other media you can boot from (generally floppy or cdrom) in order to fix the MBR. I suppose you could try booting from a DOS partition via loadlin (assumes you're not running NTFS on your windows partition in a dual boot scenario). It's been a long time since I ran loadlin. I'd try to find a floppy drive that works. If you need one I have some spares. Email me off list if interested. TIP: when installing slackware, always select "Simple" when asked during liloconfig. You can always go back and change it later, but in my experience, selecting "simple" _always_ works. Lansing, Dan wrote: > I tried to install slack 9.1 over an existing slack 9.0 install....reformatted the partition and did the install, I found out when I tried to do the install that my cdrom drive is broken.... > Now when I boot....at lilo I pick slackware and get > Loading Slackware_9.0EBDA too big > I have since wised up and just put all needed files on my windows partition and would like to try and repair my slackware install....if I can get into Linux I'm sure I can do this....i have no floppy and my cd does not work....is there anything I can type at the lilo prompt to get in here? > > Dan Lansing > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From glenn.mcdavid at co.hennepin.mn.us Fri Oct 24 11:53:54 2003 From: glenn.mcdavid at co.hennepin.mn.us (glenn.mcdavid@co.hennepin.mn.us) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] install failure/lilo hates me Message-ID: > I suppose you could try > booting from a DOS partition via loadlin (assumes you're not running NTFS > on your windows partition in a dual boot scenario). It's been a long time > since I ran loadlin. You need to get a fairly recent version of loadlin to work with the newer 2.4.x kernels, but I have used it with Slack 9.0 and 9.1. Glenn McDavid Hennepin County Information Technology glenn.mcdavid@co.hennepin.mn.us 612-348-4411 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com Fri Oct 24 12:01:41 2003 From: Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com (Lansing, Dan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] install failure/lilo hates me Message-ID: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D3767@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> I'm using the loadlin that came on the slack9.1 disk....i do have a cf card I have been using to get the required files on to the win partition....it just seems that loadlin doesn't like xp but I know the feeling is mutual so there is no love lost there....just seething frustration.....a guy I work with is hooking me up with a floppy so hopefully in the next few minutes I should be having a happy day.... Dan Lansing ITSC -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of glenn.mcdavid@co.hennepin.mn.us Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 11:54 AM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] install failure/lilo hates me > I suppose you could try > booting from a DOS partition via loadlin (assumes you're not running NTFS > on your windows partition in a dual boot scenario). It's been a long time > since I ran loadlin. You need to get a fairly recent version of loadlin to work with the newer 2.4.x kernels, but I have used it with Slack 9.0 and 9.1. Glenn McDavid Hennepin County Information Technology glenn.mcdavid@co.hennepin.mn.us 612-348-4411 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net Fri Oct 24 12:09:24 2003 From: scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Is it worth upgrading? In-Reply-To: <3F993F06.4080309@goldengate.net>; from cxobert@goldengate.net on Fri, Oct 24, 2003 at 11:02:30AM -0400 References: <3F993F06.4080309@goldengate.net> Message-ID: <20031024120924.C25031@thinkunix.net> The old saying goes, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." To update or not is a question only you can answer. Things to consider: are your systems exposed to the internet? (ie, not behind a firewall) Even if you're behind a firewall and have services running (port forwarded through your firewall, say a webserver or mailserver), you should definitely update. ALWAYS keep publically available systems patched and running the latest versions of software. Get on the vendor's security mailing list. Slackware mailing lists are posted on slackware.com, I presume Mandrake has something similar. before updating, always make a backup. Generally, if you haven't changed much after a base install you can get by with just taring up /home and /etc, but I always recommend a full backup just in case. Make sure you can read your backups! When configuring your system, it's best to keep notes of what changes you've made so if anything breaks after an upgrade, you know what you did in the past. I like an online copy because it's easy to search. put this file on another system (not the one you're upgrading) so you can read it during an upgrade, worst case, print it out. do you have any special hardware that is/is not recoginzed today? generally upgrading makes things work that didn't before, but not always. are there any programs that you want to run today but can't? generally this is less of an issue from one release to the next but if you put off upgrading for a while you will eventually run into trouble compiling things or getting the latest and greatest programs to run on your old C libraries. Netscape is a fine example. Sooner or later they quit supporting a specific glibc version. Then it's time to update. I've done many Slackware updates. I have box that's been upgraded over and over from 8.0 through 9.1. The process is pretty easy although a bit manual. Just follow the instructions in the UPGRADE.TXT at the root of the cdrom (also available on the ftp mirrors) and you should be fine. I can't speak to Mandrake upgrades but I suspect being RPM based, they're pretty simple too. Charlie Obert wrote: > I started with Linux back in March of this year. Currently I have two > machines, one with Mandrake 9.1, one with Slackware 9.0, and both are > set up, talking to each other and running well. > > And now we have Mandrake 9.2 and Slackware 9.1 fresh out. This is the > first time I need to decide if I should upgrade either or both systems. > > I know in the M$ world there is hell (and Redmond) to pay if you push > off upgrading for too long. I don't know if it's the same in the Linux > world, or if I should just stay with systems that are working well and > doing what I need. > > Does anyone have any thoughts on the upgrading issue, either in general > or with Mandrake and/or Slackware in particular? -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net Fri Oct 24 12:13:18 2003 From: scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] install failure/lilo hates me In-Reply-To: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D3767@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com>; from Dan.Lansing@AndersenCorp.com on Fri, Oct 24, 2003 at 12:01:41PM -0500 References: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D3767@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> Message-ID: <20031024121318.D25031@thinkunix.net> Lansing, Dan wrote: > I'm using the loadlin that came on the slack9.1 disk....i do have a cf card I have been using to get the required files on to the win partition....it just seems that loadlin doesn't like xp but I know the feeling is mutual so there is no love lost there....just seething frustration.....a guy I work with is hooking me up with a floppy so hopefully in the next few minutes I should be having a happy day.... man, and I thought it was rough in the morning without coffee, but I've never tried it without Linux :) I understand your frustration. I suspect the XP install is on an NTFS and loadlin is unhappy about that. good luck. -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com Fri Oct 24 12:21:33 2003 From: Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com (Lansing, Dan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] install failure/lilo hates me Message-ID: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D3768@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> Loadlin is on a fat32 partition...c drive is ntfs but I don't think that should matter.....got a floppy drive from a guy here and loadlin likes that much better....hangs at booting kernel but I think if I play with it long enough I will either make it work or it will be time to go home....then that will be solved...i may just end up making some slack install floppy's but the supply room currently has only 5.25 floppy's.....jee....wonder why nobody wanted those.... Dan Lansing ITSC -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Scot Jenkins Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 12:13 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] install failure/lilo hates me Lansing, Dan wrote: > I'm using the loadlin that came on the slack9.1 disk....i do have a cf card I have been using to get the required files on to the win partition....it just seems that loadlin doesn't like xp but I know the feeling is mutual so there is no love lost there....just seething frustration.....a guy I work with is hooking me up with a floppy so hopefully in the next few minutes I should be having a happy day.... man, and I thought it was rough in the morning without coffee, but I've never tried it without Linux :) I understand your frustration. I suspect the XP install is on an NTFS and loadlin is unhappy about that. good luck. -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net Fri Oct 24 12:34:57 2003 From: scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] install failure/lilo hates me In-Reply-To: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D3768@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com>; from Dan.Lansing@AndersenCorp.com on Fri, Oct 24, 2003 at 12:21:33PM -0500 References: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D3768@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> Message-ID: <20031024123457.F25031@thinkunix.net> you are trying to boot using your existing root partition on the hard drive, right? in lilo, it's something like this to boot single user using /dev/hda1 as your root (/) partition: boot: linux 1 root=/dev/hda1 if you only have 1 floppy, you might try a tomsrtbt disk[1], manually mount / and then run lilo chroot: mount -t ext2 /dev/hda1 /mnt /mnt/sbin/lilo -r /mnt -v [1] http://www.toms.net/rb/ Lansing, Dan wrote: > Loadlin is on a fat32 partition...c drive is ntfs but I don't think that should matter.....got a floppy drive from a guy here and loadlin likes that much better....hangs at booting kernel but I think if I play with it long enough I will either make it work or it will be time to go home....then that will be solved...i may just end up making some slack install floppy's but the supply room currently has only 5.25 floppy's.....jee....wonder why nobody wanted those.... > > Dan Lansing > ITSC > > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Scot Jenkins > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 12:13 PM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] install failure/lilo hates me > > Lansing, Dan wrote: > > I'm using the loadlin that came on the slack9.1 disk....i do have a cf card I have been using to get the required files on to the win partition....it just seems that loadlin doesn't like xp but I know the feeling is mutual so there is no love lost there....just seething frustration.....a guy I work with is hooking me up with a floppy so hopefully in the next few minutes I should be having a happy day.... > > man, and I thought it was rough in the morning without coffee, but I've > never tried it without Linux :) I understand your frustration. > > I suspect the XP install is on an NTFS and loadlin is unhappy about > that. > > good luck. > -- > scot > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bradyh at bitstream.net Fri Oct 24 12:38:18 2003 From: bradyh at bitstream.net (bradyh@bitstream.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] BarbieOS In-Reply-To: <3F995438.1030301@eworld3.net> References: <20031024151850.GA20884@mail.el-swifto.com> <3F995438.1030301@eworld3.net> Message-ID: <1067017098.3f99638a487c1@mail.bitstream.net> I thought (hoped?) it was real till I read this (which is an obvious parody): "He said many girls are also complaining of getting stuck on the Microsoft upgrade treadmill, and expressed little interest in upgrading to the latest versions of Microsoft Windows and the Office productivity suite until they come bundled with a new computer system. The girls cited prohibitively high costs ($400 for Office, $300 for Windows XP) and a lack of interesting features as reasons they were holding off on upgrading." BTW - is anybody noticing problems with wireless connectivity today because of the solar storm today? http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/space/10/24/solar.forecast/index.html Brady > Very funny and totally bull, I think. I searched Mattel.com and peeked > at Barbie.com and did not find any info. No press release, no ISOs, only > lots of buzz on the net. > > But I've been wrong before. > > John J. Trammell wrote: > > http://qrxx.4t.com/barbieOS.htm > > > > ... BarbieOS 1.0 is the result of almost a year's worth of marketing > > research into what pre-adolescent girls want in a mobile Linux solution > > aimed at being a desktop replacement. ... > > > > Apparently the preteen set prefers Debian? > > > > -- > Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff > rick@eworld3.net > 952-929-1659 > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com Fri Oct 24 12:44:33 2003 From: Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com (Lansing, Dan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] install failure/lilo hates me Message-ID: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D3769@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> I gave up....i tracked down some floppies and am just going to make some install disks....good news through this though is I decided to just kill my windows install off here...just made a fat32 partition to hold my files till I get home and the rest will be wacked...... Dan Lansing ITSC -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Scot Jenkins Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 12:35 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] install failure/lilo hates me you are trying to boot using your existing root partition on the hard drive, right? in lilo, it's something like this to boot single user using /dev/hda1 as your root (/) partition: boot: linux 1 root=/dev/hda1 if you only have 1 floppy, you might try a tomsrtbt disk[1], manually mount / and then run lilo chroot: mount -t ext2 /dev/hda1 /mnt /mnt/sbin/lilo -r /mnt -v [1] http://www.toms.net/rb/ Lansing, Dan wrote: > Loadlin is on a fat32 partition...c drive is ntfs but I don't think that should matter.....got a floppy drive from a guy here and loadlin likes that much better....hangs at booting kernel but I think if I play with it long enough I will either make it work or it will be time to go home....then that will be solved...i may just end up making some slack install floppy's but the supply room currently has only 5.25 floppy's.....jee....wonder why nobody wanted those.... > > Dan Lansing > ITSC > > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Scot Jenkins > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 12:13 PM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] install failure/lilo hates me > > Lansing, Dan wrote: > > I'm using the loadlin that came on the slack9.1 disk....i do have a cf card I have been using to get the required files on to the win partition....it just seems that loadlin doesn't like xp but I know the feeling is mutual so there is no love lost there....just seething frustration.....a guy I work with is hooking me up with a floppy so hopefully in the next few minutes I should be having a happy day.... > > man, and I thought it was rough in the morning without coffee, but I've > never tried it without Linux :) I understand your frustration. > > I suspect the XP install is on an NTFS and loadlin is unhappy about > that. > > good luck. > -- > scot > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net Fri Oct 24 13:13:08 2003 From: scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] install failure/lilo hates me In-Reply-To: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D3769@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com>; from Dan.Lansing@AndersenCorp.com on Fri, Oct 24, 2003 at 12:44:33PM -0500 References: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D3769@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> Message-ID: <20031024131308.A25114@thinkunix.net> ah yes, an excellent choice :) that's what I would have done. Lansing, Dan wrote: > I gave up....i tracked down some floppies and am just going to make some install disks....good news through this though is I decided to just kill my windows install off here...just made a fat32 partition to hold my files till I get home and the rest will be wacked...... -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Fri Oct 24 13:07:45 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SSL and NAT - part 2 Message-ID: <20031024130745.000029ac.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Ok, First off thanks to Chad and Scot for helping me get my firewall rules setup to route SSL traffic to different private IP's based on the public IP. So I'm thinking about the next logical step in this. Right now I have 5 static public IP's and 3 sites that require SSL. What if I get more than 5 sites that need SSL? I'd hate to be forced into buying more public IP's and needlessly contributing to the decay of IPv4 if I don't have to. I have hundreds of private IP's that need something to do instead. :) Is there something that can route to private IP's based on data in the application layer? For example, routing the following two sites that both have the same public IP in DNS: https://www.coolsite1.com -> 192.168.0.100 https://www.coolsite2.com -> 192.168.0.101 URL based application layer routing? I don't know much about proxy servers like squid. Can it do something like this? iptables obviously cannot because it's working in the wrong (I mean right) network layer. If the answer is squid, can it be done on the same box as the web server? Keep in mind that this is for a home solution, I'm not doing enterprise level stuff here, just trying to soak in as much as I can. There has to be a better solution than forking over cash for more IP's... Thanks, Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com Fri Oct 24 13:17:42 2003 From: Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com (Lansing, Dan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] install failure/lilo hates me Message-ID: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD526FACA@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> As much as I would like to get rid of my need for windows completely for some reason I am still reluctant to get rid of it from my laptop....but since installing slack9.1 on my main box at home I don't think I have even booted to windows on that machine....so I guess it's a safe bet to kill it on the laptop.... Dan Lansing ITSC -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Scot Jenkins Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 1:13 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] install failure/lilo hates me ah yes, an excellent choice :) that's what I would have done. Lansing, Dan wrote: > I gave up....i tracked down some floppies and am just going to make some install disks....good news through this though is I decided to just kill my windows install off here...just made a fat32 partition to hold my files till I get home and the rest will be wacked...... -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Fri Oct 24 13:34:35 2003 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Space Weather:x In-Reply-To: <1067017098.3f99638a487c1@mail.bitstream.net> References: <20031024151850.GA20884@mail.el-swifto.com> <3F995438.1030301@eworld3.net> <1067017098.3f99638a487c1@mail.bitstream.net> Message-ID: <20031024133435.A15925@baker.space.umn.edu> On Fri, Oct 24, 2003 at 12:38:18PM -0500, bradyh@bitstream.net wrote: > BTW - is anybody noticing problems with wireless connectivity today because of > the solar storm today? > http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/space/10/24/solar.forecast/index.html The first part of the solar storm didn't have much effect on the magnetosphere. The second part might make for nice aurora's tonight, but I don't think that there will be much affect for wireless networks. See http://www.spaceweather.com/ for better info. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net Fri Oct 24 13:48:27 2003 From: scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SSL and NAT - part 2 In-Reply-To: <20031024130745.000029ac.josh@trutwins.homeip.net>; from josh@trutwins.homeip.net on Fri, Oct 24, 2003 at 01:07:45PM -0500 References: <20031024130745.000029ac.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: <20031024134827.B22011@thinkunix.net> Sorry Josh, I don't have any suggestions for this. I just run one ssl site at home and a couple non-ssl sites over a single static IP. You might try posting to the tcwebdev[1] list if no one else here answers your questions. [1] http://tcwebdev.org/ Josh Trutwin wrote: > So I'm thinking about the next logical step in this. Right now I have 5 static public IP's and 3 sites that require SSL. What if I get more than 5 sites that need SSL? I'd hate to be forced into buying more public IP's and needlessly contributing to the decay of IPv4 if I don't have to. I have hundreds of private IP's that need something to do instead. :) > > Is there something that can route to private IP's based on data in the application layer? -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Fri Oct 24 14:34:00 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Space Weather:x In-Reply-To: <20031024133435.A15925@baker.space.umn.edu> References: <20031024151850.GA20884@mail.el-swifto.com> <3F995438.1030301@eworld3.net> <1067017098.3f99638a487c1@mail.bitstream.net> <20031024133435.A15925@baker.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: <3F997EA8.2030206@visi.com> I love spaceweather.com! Sam. Jim Crumley wrote: >On Fri, Oct 24, 2003 at 12:38:18PM -0500, bradyh@bitstream.net wrote: > > >>BTW - is anybody noticing problems with wireless connectivity today because of >>the solar storm today? >>http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/space/10/24/solar.forecast/index.html >> >> > >The first part of the solar storm didn't have much effect on the >magnetosphere. The second part might make for nice aurora's >tonight, but I don't think that there will be much affect for >wireless networks. See http://www.spaceweather.com/ for better >info. > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Fri Oct 24 14:40:32 2003 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SSL and NAT - part 2 In-Reply-To: <20031024130745.000029ac.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> References: <20031024130745.000029ac.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 24 Oct 2003, Josh Trutwin wrote: > For example, routing the following two sites that both have the same > public IP in DNS: > > https://www.coolsite1.com -> 192.168.0.100 > https://www.coolsite2.com -> 192.168.0.101 > > URL based application layer routing? If you are not using SSL, it's totally possible. The way it works is the client connects to port 80, and runs a GET command on http://www.coolsite1.com or http://www.coolsite2.com. This way, the web server knows which site to send. If you *are* using SSL, however, there's a problem. For SSL to work properly, the name of the site needs to be included in the information in the certificate. And (the way SSL works with HTTP), the SSL cert has to be sent to the client on the initial connection, before the client sends any information to the server on what site it wants. So, you can only have one SSL cert per IP, because otherwise the server wouldn't have any way to distinguish which one to send. With TLS, you are supposed to be able to get around this - the client sends a clear-text request for the site it wants, and negotiates SSL on the wire. I haven't yet had a chance to try to make this work, though. Another option is to run many SSL sites on the same IP address, using different ports, and just set up a cleartext site to direct them to the proper port. For example, you've got www.coolsite1.com, www.coolsite2.com, and www.coolsite3.com. You decide to set them all up on the IP 10.0.0.1. So, you'd have the following: 10.0.0.1:80 - answering for all three sites, using http virtual hosting 10.0.0.1:443 - www.coolsite1.com 10.0.0.1:444 - www.coolsite2.com 10.0.0.1:445 - www.coolsite3.com when someone hits http://www.coolsite1.com, it'd redirect them to https://www.coolsite1.com:443; when someone hits http://www.coolsite2.com, have a redirect for https://www.coolsite2.com:444, etc. Hope this helps! -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tanner at real-time.com Fri Oct 24 14:55:56 2003 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: last test Message-ID: <20031024195556.GM17278@real-time.com> Make a few more tweaks to exim, last test. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From joel_cd at yahoo.com Fri Oct 24 15:22:15 2003 From: joel_cd at yahoo.com (Joel Dick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Space Weather:x In-Reply-To: <3F997EA8.2030206@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031024202215.64087.qmail@web13807.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sam MacDonald wrote: > I love spaceweather.com! Me too, thought I was the only person in the area interested in such stuff ;) btw I also like Space Weather Now from NOAA's Space Environment Center. http://www.sec.noaa.gov/SWN/index.html Although it seems to be unresponsive today.. So it's either the geomagnetic storm, or more likely, lost of people wanting to see info on it ;) > > Sam. > > Jim Crumley wrote: > > >On Fri, Oct 24, 2003 at 12:38:18PM -0500, bradyh@bitstream.net wrote: > > > > > >>BTW - is anybody noticing problems with wireless connectivity today > because of > >>the solar storm today? > >>http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/space/10/24/solar.forecast/index.html > >> > >> > > > >The first part of the solar storm didn't have much effect on the > >magnetosphere. The second part might make for nice aurora's > >tonight, but I don't think that there will be much affect for > >wireless networks. See http://www.spaceweather.com/ for better > >info. > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Fri Oct 24 15:40:53 2003 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Space Weather:x In-Reply-To: <20031024202215.64087.qmail@web13807.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3F997EA8.2030206@visi.com> <20031024202215.64087.qmail@web13807.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20031024154053.A16148@baker.space.umn.edu> On Fri, Oct 24, 2003 at 01:22:15PM -0700, Joel Dick wrote: > --- Sam MacDonald wrote: > > I love spaceweather.com! > > Me too, thought I was the only person in the area interested in such stuff > ;) Heh, Space Weather is part of my job :). -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blots at visi.com Fri Oct 24 18:55:07 2003 From: blots at visi.com (Tom Penney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Space Weather:x In-Reply-To: <20031024154053.A16148@baker.space.umn.edu> References: <3F997EA8.2030206@visi.com> <20031024202215.64087.qmail@web13807.mail.yahoo.com> <20031024154053.A16148@baker.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: <1067039706.9497.21.camel@lotsa> On Fri, 2003-10-24 at 15:40, Jim Crumley wrote: > On Fri, Oct 24, 2003 at 01:22:15PM -0700, Joel Dick wrote: > > --- Sam MacDonald wrote: > > > I love spaceweather.com! > > > > Me too, thought I was the only person in the area interested in such stuff > > ;) > > Heh, Space Weather is part of my job :). Does anyone use this service? It looks kind of cool. http://spaceweatherphone.com/ -- Tom Penney _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Fri Oct 24 20:15:38 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Space Weather:x In-Reply-To: <1067039706.9497.21.camel@lotsa> References: <3F997EA8.2030206@visi.com> <20031024202215.64087.qmail@web13807.mail.yahoo.com> <20031024154053.A16148@baker.space.umn.edu> <1067039706.9497.21.camel@lotsa> Message-ID: <3F99CEBA.7090204@visi.com> I get an eMail update when it looks like we will have sky lights ;-) Sam. Tom Penney wrote: >On Fri, 2003-10-24 at 15:40, Jim Crumley wrote: > > >>On Fri, Oct 24, 2003 at 01:22:15PM -0700, Joel Dick wrote: >> >> >>>--- Sam MacDonald wrote: >>> >>> >>>>I love spaceweather.com! >>>> >>>> >>>Me too, thought I was the only person in the area interested in such stuff >>>;) >>> >>> >>Heh, Space Weather is part of my job :). >> >> > >Does anyone use this service? It looks kind of cool. > >http://spaceweatherphone.com/ > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Fri Oct 24 20:16:12 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Fwd: Arizona Auroras] Message-ID: <3F99CEDC.6080609@visi.com> Updates like this. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Arizona Auroras Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:34:40 -0500 From: SpaceWeather.com Reply-To: SpaceWeather.com To: SpaceWeather.com Space Weather News for Oct. 24, 2003 http://spaceweather.com Many people think you can only see auroras from far-north places like Alaska and Canada. Not so. Photographer Chris Schur catches them surprisingly often from Arizona--including some this week. Visit spaceweather.com for pictures of Arizona auroras and observing tips for mid-latitude aurora watchers. As a result of ongoing solar activity, auroras are possible tonight in the United States, Canada, southern Australia, New Zealand, and much of Europe. In the U.S.A. northern border states such as Maine, Michigan, and Washington are favored--and, of course, Alaska. Sky watchers are advised to get away from city lights, if possible, and pay extra attention to their sky around local midnight, when auroras are most likely to appear. --- You are currently subscribed to spaceweather as: smac@visi.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-spaceweather-941193U@snglist.msfc.nasa.gov _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jimstreit at northlans.com Fri Oct 24 22:35:55 2003 From: jimstreit at northlans.com (Jim Streit) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT - Search Engines In-Reply-To: <20031024180144.00005c75.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> References: <3995.65.116.187.194.1067033362.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> <20031024180144.00005c75.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: <1082.192.168.70.31.1067052955.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> I'll look at it, thanks > I cannot say anything myself, but you may want to try the TCWebDev > mailing list: http://tcwebdev.org/ > > Josh > > On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 17:09:22 -0500 (CDT) > "Jim Streit" wrote: > >> >> This is Off Topic >> >> Anyone had any experiences (good or bad) with search engine submission >> services? I'm looking to get maximum exposure for a web site, but I >> also want to get a good value and not spend a lot of money. >> >> Thanks >> >> Jim Streit >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jack at jacku.com Fri Oct 24 22:46:58 2003 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PBS's "I, Cringely" strikes again.... In-Reply-To: <3F98B7C0.7070004@cleosci.com> References: <3F988E29.1080507@comcast.net> <200310232353.39038.jack@jacku.com> <3F98B7C0.7070004@cleosci.com> Message-ID: <200310242246.58937.jack@jacku.com> On Friday 24 October 2003 12:25 am, gkrueger wrote: > Bob Cringley's been around for a number of years. He did a video about > 7 years ago, "Triumph of the Nerds," which is a story of how the PC grew > to be so big (popular). He's quite objective; I wish he'd do an update, > but as was stated previously, he's never been a big fan of Microsoft. > He was simply aware that they were the "reality" of the computing 90's > > Garrett For people who want that story but can't find the video, it was based on Cringley's book "Accidental Empires" which should be available in your local library. -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jack at jacku.com Fri Oct 24 22:49:33 2003 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PBS's "I, Cringely" strikes again.... In-Reply-To: <3F992282.2090900@visi.com> References: <3F988E29.1080507@comcast.net> <3F992282.2090900@visi.com> Message-ID: <200310242249.33170.jack@jacku.com> On Friday 24 October 2003 08:00 am, Sam MacDonald wrote: > I don't remember the name of the industry rag he did a column in, I > waited for it every month and read his column first. Cringley is a > writer that found information technology to be interesting. He learned > about technology and the technology industry. He has maintained an > unbiased point of view and has put the screws to almost every promenent > person in the industry. I loved his documentary, it is a little dated > today, however it is an execlent histroy lesson. Cringley wrote for InfoWorld (weekly or bi-weekly) I used to get a free subscription to it and the only things I'd read every issue was his "Notes from the Field" column and Ed Foster's "Gripe Line" column. Good stuff! -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From phptom at wordesign.net Sat Oct 25 12:00:43 2003 From: phptom at wordesign.net (PHPTOm) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT - Search Engines In-Reply-To: <3995.65.116.187.194.1067033362.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> Message-ID: Jim, I can give you some search engine info, email me off list. phptom at wordesign.net TOm _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mike at JentgeS.NeT Sat Oct 25 03:27:13 2003 From: mike at JentgeS.NeT (Michael Jentges) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] install failure/lilo hates me In-Reply-To: <20031024123457.F25031@thinkunix.net> References: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D3768@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> <20031024123457.F25031@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <3484.199.199.150.6.1067070433.squirrel@webmail.jentges.net> TEST. Sorry if this annoys anyone. Something funny going on here. And hence spewed: Scot Jenkins > you are trying to boot using your existing root partition on the hard > drive, right? > > in lilo, it's something like this to boot single user using /dev/hda1 as > your root (/) partition: > > boot: linux 1 root=/dev/hda1 > > if you only have 1 floppy, you might try a tomsrtbt disk[1], manually > mount / and then run lilo chroot: > > mount -t ext2 /dev/hda1 /mnt > /mnt/sbin/lilo -r /mnt -v > > [1] http://www.toms.net/rb/ > > Lansing, Dan wrote: >> Loadlin is on a fat32 partition...c drive is ntfs but I don't think >> that should matter.....got a floppy drive from a guy here and loadlin >> likes that much better....hangs at booting kernel but I think if I >> play with it long enough I will either make it work or it will be time >> to go home....then that will be solved...i may just end up making some >> slack install floppy's but the supply room currently has only 5.25 >> floppy's.....jee....wonder why nobody wanted those.... >> >> Dan Lansing >> ITSC >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org >> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Scot Jenkins >> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 12:13 PM >> To: TCLUG Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [TCLUG] install failure/lilo hates me >> >> Lansing, Dan wrote: >> > I'm using the loadlin that came on the slack9.1 disk....i do have a >> cf card I have been using to get the required files on to the win >> partition....it just seems that loadlin doesn't like xp but I know >> the feeling is mutual so there is no love lost there....just >> seething frustration.....a guy I work with is hooking me up with a >> floppy so hopefully in the next few minutes I should be having a >> happy day.... >> >> man, and I thought it was rough in the morning without coffee, but >> I've never tried it without Linux :) I understand your frustration. >> >> I suspect the XP install is on an NTFS and loadlin is unhappy about >> that. >> >> good luck. >> -- >> scot >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- > scot > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list --------------------- Jentges.NET, Inc. Voice: 763.783.3702 Cell: 763.370.1201 --------------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dante at argle.org Fri Oct 24 18:08:42 2003 From: dante at argle.org (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT - Search Engines In-Reply-To: <3995.65.116.187.194.1067033362.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 24 Oct 2003, Jim Streit wrote: > > This is Off Topic > > Anyone had any experiences (good or bad) with search engine submission > services? I'm looking to get maximum exposure for a web site, but I also > want to get a good value and not spend a lot of money. > > Thanks > > Jim Streit > >From what I've seen, they don't provide any service you can't/shouldn't do yourself. Besides, there are only 3-4 search engines of any significance that take submissions anyway. Once you are on them, Google &c. should find you OK on their own. -- Daniel Taylor dante@argle.org Forget diamonds, Copyright is forever. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Fri Oct 24 20:43:24 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (webmaster@mn-linux.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] A new classified ad at TCLUG Classifieds Message-ID: <200310250143.h9P1hOU29787@crusader.real-time.com> A new TCLUG classified ad at was placed Fri Oct 24 20:43:23 2003. Name: Doug Category: computersell Subject: 2 Monitors (21 Ad: I have 2 monitors I'm looking to get rid of, one's a 21 inch hitachi and the other is a 19 inch envision. The 21 is about 6 years old and the 19 is about 3 and neither are flat CRT's. Make offer in email. Thanks To view this and other ads at TCLUG Classifieds, please visit: http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/classifieds.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From william.layer at comcast.net Fri Oct 24 16:39:50 2003 From: william.layer at comcast.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Space Weather:x In-Reply-To: <20031024154053.A16148@baker.space.umn.edu> References: <3F997EA8.2030206@visi.com> <20031024202215.64087.qmail@web13807.mail.yahoo.com> <20031024154053.A16148@baker.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20031024163950.215103fe.william.layer@comcast.net> On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:40:53 -0500 Jim Crumley wrote: > On Fri, Oct 24, 2003 at 01:22:15PM -0700, Joel Dick wrote: > > --- Sam MacDonald wrote: > > > I love spaceweather.com! > > > > Me too, thought I was the only person in the area interested in such stuff > > ;) > > Heh, Space Weather is part of my job :). Next time, try IRC for this kind of thing.. you could cover it in about 30 seconds, and save this already heavy list another half-dozen 'OT' mails. -L _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From william.layer at comcast.net Sat Oct 25 15:33:27 2003 From: william.layer at comcast.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Test. Ignore. Message-ID: <20031025153327.3d70e785.william.layer@comcast.net> test #1 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Fri Oct 24 20:41:43 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (webmaster@mn-linux.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] A new classified ad at TCLUG Classifieds Message-ID: <200310250141.h9P1fh329740@crusader.real-time.com> A new TCLUG classified ad at was placed Fri Oct 24 20:41:43 2003. Name: Doug Category: computersell Subject: 2 Monitors (21 Ad: I have 2 monitors I'm looking to get rid of, one's a 21\ To view this and other ads at TCLUG Classifieds, please visit: http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/classifieds.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mike at JentgeS.NeT Sat Oct 25 03:22:05 2003 From: mike at JentgeS.NeT (Michael Jentges) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Procmail/REGEX thang... Message-ID: <3425.199.199.150.6.1067070125.squirrel@webmail.jentges.net> Ok, if I'm unclear here, please bear with me but this is the best way I know to express what I'm asking. Typically in a regex, you'd use [0-9] to indicate values between 0 and 9, or [a-z] to indicate values between a and z.... I want to create a procmail recipe that will match user (from) names to something like tim34haha@spammer.com. In other words, usernames containing text,integer(s),text.. Also perhaps integer,text as well. Any ideas? From:.*??????? Mike Jentges -- ************************************************** **** Remember, UNIX spelled backwards is XINU.**** ************************************************** --------------------- Jentges.NET, Inc. Voice: 763.783.3702 Cell: 763.370.1201 --------------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Sat Oct 25 23:50:55 2003 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Procmail/REGEX thang... In-Reply-To: <3425.199.199.150.6.1067070125.squirrel@webmail.jentges.net> References: <3425.199.199.150.6.1067070125.squirrel@webmail.jentges.net> Message-ID: <20031026045055.GA3114@iucha.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hoff0438 at umn.edu Sun Oct 26 13:12:37 2003 From: hoff0438 at umn.edu (John Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: Cheap 3WARE Controllers In-Reply-To: <146431CFD07FE94984B432636FCDF8060FB886@C1MAIL1.agiliti.net> Message-ID: <001101c39bf5$1fe0b9e0$2900a8c0@aurvandil> Anyone have any experience with this card? Gripes/Accolades? -----Original Message----- From: Neigebauer, Ben [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Neigebauer, Ben Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 10:40 To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Cheap 3WARE Controllers I found this and though I would post it to the list. 3WARE DiskSwitch AccelerATA 8 port UDMA100 EIDE RAID Card $59.99 http://www.softwareandstuff.com/CRD10119.html Please forgive if not acceptable to post like this. Benjamin E. Neigebauer Software Engineer Compellent Technologies Eden Prairie, MN 55344 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Sun Oct 26 14:08:34 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: Cheap 3WARE Controllers References: <001101c39bf5$1fe0b9e0$2900a8c0@aurvandil> Message-ID: <000b01c39bfc$ef8572b0$0201a8c0@brinstar> John Hoffoss writes: > Anyone have any experience with this card? Gripes/Accolades? If that's an Escalade 7506-8, then yes, it's an excellent card. 3ware cards are the only IDE RAID cards worth buying. If it's an older 3ware card (as opposed to the current model), which it might be, then it's still probably a good buy. A new 7506-8 costs at least $350. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Sun Oct 26 17:02:30 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Space Weather:x In-Reply-To: <20031024163950.215103fe.william.layer@comcast.net> References: <3F997EA8.2030206@visi.com> <20031024202215.64087.qmail@web13807.mail.yahoo.com> <20031024154053.A16148@baker.space.umn.edu> <20031024163950.215103fe.william.layer@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20031026230230.GA20696@fandre.com> On Fri, 24 Oct 2003, Bill Layer wrote: > > Heh, Space Weather is part of my job :). > > Next time, try IRC for this kind of thing.. you could cover it in about 30 seconds, and save this already heavy list another half-dozen 'OT' mails. > If it bothers you that much: :0 * ^Subject:.*OT.* /dev/null _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From thompson at math-cs.cns.uni.edu Mon Oct 27 10:27:42 2003 From: thompson at math-cs.cns.uni.edu (Aaron Thompson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mandrake 9.2 is dangerious... Message-ID: <20031027162742.GC25074@faculty.cns.uni.edu> Bad news for Mandrake Lovers... 9.2 could cause physical damage... If you have a cdrom from LG Electronics (Suposedly Dell uses these) it would be a good idea to _not_ install Mandrake 9.2 right now. http://www.linuxworld.com/story/35661.htm http://www.mandrakelinux.com/en/errata.php3#badlg ---- Error scenario: Installing 9.2 and being told unable to install the base system and subsequent reboot reveals that CD-ROM drive is physically dead. Why: According to LG Electronics, their ODD (Optical Disc Drive) products do not support Linux nor do they test with Linux. Unfortunately, many Dell computers (possibly others) come with these CD-ROM drives. Solution: Currently there is no solution or work-around for this issue; it is still under investigation. Damage occurs even when doing a network install. At this point, please do not install Mandrake Linux 9.2 on any computer containing a LG-based CD-ROM drive or it will damage your CD-ROM drive! We are actively looking for a solution to this problem. ---- -- Aaron Thompson Unix Systems Administrator, College of Natural Science University of Northern Iowa Cedar Falls, IA 50614 "It is not the fall that kills you. It's the sudden stop at the end." -Douglas Adams _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cxobert at goldengate.net Mon Oct 27 10:45:06 2003 From: cxobert at goldengate.net (Charlie Obert) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mandrake 9.2 CD problem alert In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F9D4B92.9040904@goldengate.net> This is from Linux.org. Webmaster's note: This is the verbatim entry on Mandrakesoft's errata page Error scenario: Installing 9.2 and being told unable to install the base system and subsequent reboot reveals that CD-ROM drive is physically dead. Why: According to LG Electronics, their ODD (Optical Disc Drive) products do not support Linux nor do they test with Linux. Unfortunately, many Dell computers (possibly others) come with these CD-ROM drives. Solution: Currently there is no solution or work-around for this issue; it is still under investigation. Damage occurs even when doing a network install. At this point, please do not install Mandrake Linux 9.2 on any computer containing a LG-based CD-ROM drive or it will damage your CD-ROM drive! We are actively looking for a solution to this problem. The url for the story is - http://www.linux.org/news/2003/10/27/0001.html -- Cheers, Charlie Obert " There is no energy crisis, food crisis or environmental crisis. There is only a crisis of ignorance." - R. Buckminster Fuller _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Mon Oct 27 10:50:45 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mandrake 9.2 is dangerious... References: <20031027162742.GC25074@faculty.cns.uni.edu> Message-ID: <002b01c39caa$771082d0$f100cb0a@corpnet.lawson.com> Uh, I guess I don't see how a physical damage could occur to a CD-ROM drive from an install. Am I overlooking something on this? I could see if the disc is unbalanced, warped and such where it damages the drive mechanisms, but to render a drive damaged on a regular install? Even on a network install? Doesn't make sense to me.... _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bruce.broecker at toro.com Mon Oct 27 11:14:10 2003 From: bruce.broecker at toro.com (Bruce Broecker) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Job opening at Toro Message-ID: We've got an opening at Toro for an eBusiness Analyst. I'm guessing that there several folks on this list that could meet that description. I'm not sure if this job is listed on our public website yet. If you are interested, send me your resume' and I'll refer it to HR. BTW, Toro is a great place to work for a big corporation. Bruce Here are some particulars: PRIMARY DUTIES/RESPONSIBILITIES: Responsible for analyzing business objectives, models, and processes and translating them into viable Internet based solutions. This includes utilizing software tools to develop: guided selling; complex products configuration; and product catalogs for an online environment such as the Internet. Design web based portals and portlets that support eBusiness in the areas of eCommerce, eServices, and Collaboration. Develop prototypes that can be used for design as well as proof of concept. Monitor competitor's websites and track the functionality, technology, and features offered. Work with business unit management and staff to determine how to best represent their products on the Internet Work with Management to establish process, roles, and responsibilities for the ongoing maintenance of product information; specifically, product advisors and configurators. Develop and maintain a repository of competitive information pertaining to the Internet. Train Toro staff in the use of the Internet tools for maintaining our online catalog and services. Develop training methods to keep our customers informed about using our Internet services. Perform requirements gathering, analysis, and design through the use of modeling techniques. Define, prioritize, schedule, and monitor multiple technical projects, developing and maintaining project schedules, and using same to communicate to management status information. QUALIFICATIONS: Strong verbal and written communications skills, with an ability to express complex technical concepts in business terms. Strong analytical, problem-solving, and conceptual skills. Good project management skills, operating as part of a team organizing, planning, and executing small to medium-scale projects from vision through implementation. Strong interpersonal skills, the ability to work well on cross-functional project teams, and foster team commitment to tasks. Broad understanding of Web technologies: CGI, Perl, HTML, DHTML, XML, ASP, COM/DCOM, JSP, Servlets, Applets. A Bachelor's degree in Computer Science, Engineering, or related discipline, or equivalent work experience and technical training, is required. Conceptual knowledge of information technologies and methodologies in client/server, portal, Internet and PC computing environments desirable. SG 12: Bachelors Degree or equivalent plus four years of progressive business knowledge in a development environment, with at least three years internet experience. One to three years of related experience leading teams responsible for applications and support. SG 13 Bachelors Degree or equivalent plus six years of progressive business knowledge in a development environment, with at least four years internet experience. At lease three years of related experience leading teams responsible for applications development and support. Bruce Broecker Network Comm Supervisor The Toro Company _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bbaptist at iexposure.com Mon Oct 27 11:20:27 2003 From: bbaptist at iexposure.com (Bret Baptist) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mandrake 9.2 is dangerious... In-Reply-To: <20031027162742.GC25074@faculty.cns.uni.edu> References: <20031027162742.GC25074@faculty.cns.uni.edu> Message-ID: <200310271120.27796.bbaptist@iexposure.com> On Monday 27 October 2003 10:27 am, Aaron Thompson wrote: > Bad news for Mandrake Lovers... 9.2 could cause physical > damage... > > If you have a cdrom from LG Electronics (Suposedly Dell uses > these) it would be a good idea to _not_ install Mandrake 9.2 > right now. > > http://www.linuxworld.com/story/35661.htm > http://www.mandrakelinux.com/en/errata.php3#badlg > > ---- > Error scenario: Installing 9.2 and being told unable to install > the base system and subsequent reboot reveals that CD-ROM drive > is physically dead. > > Why: According to LG Electronics, their ODD (Optical Disc Drive) > products do not support Linux nor do they test with Linux. > Unfortunately, many Dell computers (possibly others) come with > these CD-ROM drives. > > Solution: Currently there is no solution or work-around for > this issue; it is still under investigation. Damage occurs even > when doing a network install. At this point, please do not > install Mandrake Linux 9.2 on any computer containing a > LG-based CD-ROM drive or it will damage your CD-ROM drive! We > are actively looking for a solution to this problem. > ---- Here is the quote from one of the Mandrake kernel developers: On Saturday 25 October 2003 07:20 pm, Juan Quintela wrote: 21mdk just updated (vdanen should be doing the official update) fixes that problem. Only LG plain CD-ROMS are affected. Later, Juan. PD. Yep, whoeved decided at LG that reusing for UPLOAD_FIRMAWARE command FLUSH_CACHE comand should be shoot. Twice. So it is not really Mandrakes fault at all. -- Bret Baptist Systems and Technical Support Specialist bbaptist@iexposure.com Internet Exposure, Inc. http://www.iexposure.com (612)676-1946 x17 Web Development-Web Marketing-ISP Services ------------------------------------------ Today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com Mon Oct 27 11:23:11 2003 From: Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com (Lansing, Dan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: bios battery replacement in laptop Message-ID: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD526FACD@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> Off topic I know... I have recently acquired a Winbook X1 and the BIOS battery is dead...Winbook support was useless other than telling me it was soldered onto the board and I would have to send it in...does anyone out there have any experience with this sort of thing? I have found several links online for Winbook bios batteries...none for this model, but I'm sure I can find somewhere locally to get a battery...and I was unable to find anything on replacing the battery yourself...my soldering skills suck and I would like to find someone to assist me.....respond off list if you are interested in helping and have the skills to do this thanks Dan Lansing _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Mon Oct 27 11:27:46 2003 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mandrake 9.2 is dangerious... In-Reply-To: <002b01c39caa$771082d0$f100cb0a@corpnet.lawson.com> References: <20031027162742.GC25074@faculty.cns.uni.edu> <002b01c39caa$771082d0$f100cb0a@corpnet.lawson.com> Message-ID: <1067275665.1533.49.camel@3po> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Mon Oct 27 11:53:58 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mandrake 9.2 is dangerious... References: <20031027162742.GC25074@faculty.cns.uni.edu><002b01c39caa$771082d0$f100cb0a@corpnet.lawson.com> <1067275665.1533.49.camel@3po> Message-ID: <001d01c39cb3$4bfa26b0$f100cb0a@corpnet.lawson.com> Mike Hicks wrote: On Mon, 2003-10-27 at 10:50, Shawn wrote: > Uh, I guess I don't see how a physical damage could occur to a CD-ROM drive > from an install. Am I overlooking something on this? > > I could see if the disc is unbalanced, warped and such where it damages the > drive mechanisms, but to render a drive damaged on a regular install? Even > on a network install? Doesn't make sense to me.... >I've seen some indication that this is a result of a kernel patch made >prior to the release of Linux 2.4.22. I guess there was an update made >to the packet-writing subsystem ("drag-n-drop" access to your writable >optical media), which is funny because this problem only affects LG >CD-ROM drives, not writers or DVD readers/writers. Thanks Mike, what I'm not sure on the understanding of it is how it can ruin a drive. I can understand R/W media being turned into a coaster, but the way I read the article is that it destroys the drive itself. If the kernel/system makes repeated calls to read the head, I could see over time it ruining the drive. But I still don't see how this particular issue can destroy a drive itself (not the media). _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Mon Oct 27 12:06:52 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mandrake 9.2 is dangerious... In-Reply-To: <001d01c39cb3$4bfa26b0$f100cb0a@corpnet.lawson.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, Shawn wrote: > If the kernel/system makes repeated calls to read the head, I could see over > time it ruining the drive. But I still don't see how this particular issue > can destroy a drive itself (not the media). If i understand it correctly LG decided it was a good idea to make the systemcall that flushes the cache the same one that initiates a firmware upgrade. now it seems that the kernel shipped with mandrake makes use of that system call and when it does the drive starts it firmware upgrade process and dies just like a motherboard would die if the power failed while you were flashing the BIOS. This is why the cdrom drive would die even though you are doing a netinstall. Munir Nassar RedConcepts.NET http://redconcepts.net/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From duncan at sodatrain.com Mon Oct 27 12:25:46 2003 From: duncan at sodatrain.com (Duncan Shannon) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] LISA - San Diego Message-ID: Hello List- Any fellow TCLUG'ers in san diego at LISA this week? duncan _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dd-b at dd-b.net Mon Oct 27 12:27:07 2003 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Can't telnet to 675 router Message-ID: Luckily I wasn't trying to do anything urgent; but I discovered that I can't get a telnet connect to the 675 router connecting my house to the internet. Data is flowing through the router, I can ping it, and Cisco Commander can get into it and show me all sorts of stats. I just can't get a telnet connect. I'm sure I didn't turn off telnet the last time I messed with it (I probably blocked it to inside IPs only, but my failing telnet connects are from an inside IP). I'm pretty sure I *did* turn off the web interface, and I can't get any web connect to the router either. I get an immediate rejection of some sort ("Connection to host lost" from windows telnet), not a timeout. I haven't tried to do this since I installed Windows 2000 on my new computer; but I get the failure from other computers, too. I don't get as far as being asked for a password (and I've got the right password, I gave it to Cisco Commander to get that connection working). Anybody have any clever ideas? (Yes, I know where the serial cable is if it comes to that.) -- David Dyer-Bennet, , RKBA: Photos: Snapshots: Dragaera/Steven Brust: _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chrome at real-time.com Mon Oct 27 12:40:46 2003 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] LISA - San Diego In-Reply-To: ; from duncan@sodatrain.com on Mon, Oct 27, 2003 at 12:25:46PM -0600 References: Message-ID: <20031027124046.D8542@real-time.com> On 10/27 12:25 , Duncan Shannon wrote: > Hello List- > > Any fellow TCLUG'ers in san diego at LISA this week? no, bute there were probably one or two TCSA members. (www.tcsa.org). Carl Soderstrom. -- Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Mon Oct 27 13:43:21 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Can't telnet to 675 router In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1067283800.9472.150.camel@unixws1> I think it won't allow telnet if there's no exec password set. But IIRC you would get some sort of message about that (but maybe not with your version of code?) On Mon, 2003-10-27 at 12:27, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > Luckily I wasn't trying to do anything urgent; but I discovered that I > can't get a telnet connect to the 675 router connecting my house to > the internet. Data is flowing through the router, I can ping it, and > Cisco Commander can get into it and show me all sorts of stats. I > just can't get a telnet connect. I'm sure I didn't turn off telnet > the last time I messed with it (I probably blocked it to inside IPs > only, but my failing telnet connects are from an inside IP). I'm > pretty sure I *did* turn off the web interface, and I can't get any > web connect to the router either. > > I get an immediate rejection of some sort ("Connection to host lost" > from windows telnet), not a timeout. > > I haven't tried to do this since I installed Windows 2000 on my new > computer; but I get the failure from other computers, too. I don't > get as far as being asked for a password (and I've got the right > password, I gave it to Cisco Commander to get that connection > working). > > Anybody have any clever ideas? > > (Yes, I know where the serial cable is if it comes to that.) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Mon Oct 27 14:14:49 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mandrake 9.2 is dangerious... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F9D7CB9.7030408@eworld3.net> Munir Nassar wrote: > On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, Shawn wrote: > > >>If the kernel/system makes repeated calls to read the head, I could see over >>time it ruining the drive. But I still don't see how this particular issue >>can destroy a drive itself (not the media). > > > If i understand it correctly LG decided it was a good idea to make the > systemcall that flushes the cache the same one that initiates a firmware > upgrade. > If I understand you correctly, that would be like wiring a large bomb to my toilet. So when I flush, my house explodes ;-) -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff rick@eworld3.net 952-929-1659 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cdf123 at speakeasy.net Mon Oct 27 14:14:14 2003 From: cdf123 at speakeasy.net (Chris Frederick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mandrake 9.2 is dangerious... In-Reply-To: <20031027162742.GC25074@faculty.cns.uni.edu> References: <20031027162742.GC25074@faculty.cns.uni.edu> Message-ID: <3F9D7C96.1060301@speakeasy.net> Compaq uses these as well. #cat /proc/ide/ide0/hdb/model LG DVD-ROM DRN-8080B Since there is a "Compaq(LG) DNR-8040B DVD-CDROM" on the list of dead drives, it's probably a good idea to wait for the fix before I update. Just curious though, if this flashes the firmware and clears it, couldn't you reload the firmware back on? Chris Frederick Aaron Thompson wrote: > >Unfortunately, many Dell computers (possibly others) come with >these CD-ROM drives. > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From list at slushpupie.com Mon Oct 27 14:43:00 2003 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mandrake 9.2 is dangerious... In-Reply-To: <3F9D7C96.1060301@speakeasy.net> References: <20031027162742.GC25074@faculty.cns.uni.edu> <3F9D7C96.1060301@speakeasy.net> Message-ID: <3eccc5d94d0b26d21df3998f4629f99b@slushpupie.com> On October 27, 2:14 pm Chris Frederick wrote: > Just curious though, if this flashes the firmware and clears it, > couldn't you reload the firmware back on? No, since the firmware needs to be usable in order to do the update. If you kill the firmware, the drive is pretty much useless. Except if you have the ability to pull the firmware out and reprogram it somehow (like motherboard bios). Jay _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lxy at cloudnet.com Mon Oct 27 14:53:23 2003 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mandrake 9.2 is dangerious... In-Reply-To: <002b01c39caa$771082d0$f100cb0a@corpnet.lawson.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, Shawn wrote: > Uh, I guess I don't see how a physical damage could occur to a CD-ROM drive > from an install. Am I overlooking something on this? Any device that has upgradeable software can be made inoperable. All it takes is updating the firmware with a trojaned or corrupt version. In this case the drive managed to to flash itself with random cached data, making the firmware image invalid, and therefore making the drive inoperable. I remember reading on Slashdot not too long ago about a 4X DVD drive that actually CAUGHT FIRE when burning discs, and the fix was a firmware upgrade. -Brian _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dd-b at dd-b.net Mon Oct 27 15:00:51 2003 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Can't telnet to 675 router In-Reply-To: <1067283800.9472.150.camel@unixws1> References: <1067283800.9472.150.camel@unixws1> Message-ID: Adam Maloney writes: > I think it won't allow telnet if there's no exec password set. But IIRC > you would get some sort of message about that (but maybe not with your > version of code?) Both passwords are set (or at least were long ago). (And I was able to telnet to it at some long-ago time; i.e. the last time I had occasion to try.) -- David Dyer-Bennet, , RKBA: Photos: Snapshots: Dragaera/Steven Brust: _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Mon Oct 27 15:10:49 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Can't telnet to 675 router In-Reply-To: References: <1067283800.9472.150.camel@unixws1> Message-ID: <1067289048.9472.210.camel@unixws1> Possible that memory is fragged enough (or something) that it can still route packets, but not telnet? Have you reset it? If you reset it and still can't get in, you'll have to dig out the serial cable to see what the problem is. Then it's check that passwords are set, telnet is enabled, etc. You might even try enabling the web port temporarily to see if you can get that to work (if telnet still isn't) On Mon, 2003-10-27 at 15:00, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > Adam Maloney writes: > > > I think it won't allow telnet if there's no exec password set. But IIRC > > you would get some sort of message about that (but maybe not with your > > version of code?) > > Both passwords are set (or at least were long ago). (And I was able > to telnet to it at some long-ago time; i.e. the last time I had > occasion to try.) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Mon Oct 27 15:18:04 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mandrake 9.2 is dangerious... In-Reply-To: <3eccc5d94d0b26d21df3998f4629f99b@slushpupie.com> References: <20031027162742.GC25074@faculty.cns.uni.edu> <3F9D7C96.1060301@speakeasy.net> <3eccc5d94d0b26d21df3998f4629f99b@slushpupie.com> Message-ID: <3F9D8B8C.3000104@eworld3.net> Why would anyone design something to behave like this? If they are trying to sell more drives I think the scheme would backfire. Are all drives like this? Jay Kline wrote: > On October 27, 2:14 pm Chris Frederick wrote: > >>Just curious though, if this flashes the firmware and clears it, >>couldn't you reload the firmware back on? > > > No, since the firmware needs to be usable in order to do the update. If > you kill the firmware, the drive is pretty much useless. Except if you have > the ability to pull the firmware out and reprogram it somehow (like > motherboard bios). -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff rick@eworld3.net 952-929-1659 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Mon Oct 27 15:21:47 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mandrake 9.2 is dangerious... References: Message-ID: <006f01c39cd0$540aa420$f100cb0a@corpnet.lawson.com> Ugghh, this brings up the question of why a manufacturer would make something like this... Don't answer, rhetorica question... Thanks for the answers. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian" To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 2:53 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Mandrake 9.2 is dangerious... > On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, Shawn wrote: > > > Uh, I guess I don't see how a physical damage could occur to a CD-ROM drive > > from an install. Am I overlooking something on this? > > Any device that has upgradeable software can be made inoperable. All it > takes is updating the firmware with a trojaned or corrupt version. In > this case the drive managed to to flash itself with random cached data, > making the firmware image invalid, and therefore making the drive > inoperable. > > I remember reading on Slashdot not too long ago about a 4X DVD drive that > actually CAUGHT FIRE when burning discs, and the fix was a firmware > upgrade. > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Mon Oct 27 15:52:26 2003 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mandrake 9.2 is dangerious... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1067291546.1533.97.camel@3po> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Mon Oct 27 16:15:06 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mandrake 9.2 is dangerious... In-Reply-To: <1067291546.1533.97.camel@3po> Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, Mike Hicks wrote: > I once flashed a motherboard with a BIOS that didn't read properly off > of the floppy disk I had inserted. Fortunately, that system had a > minimal BIOS that would give you enough access to the system to flash > the system with a good version. I think it booted up, and gave a prompt > along the lines of "Please insert diskette with firmware and enter > filename: " > > Of course, this only works if the CRC of the BIOS doesn't match the > data. If you had a properly-crafted broken BIOS, you'd really be sunk. > > Anyway, good hardware should be able to operate in some minimal fashion, > even if the firmware can't be loaded. a couple "new" technologies let you do this, the most common(from what i've seen) is the AwardBIOS minimal bios thingie which seems to be that you are using... You know you have this is when it says "Press F12 to run AWDFLASH.EXE" as it posts. The other kind is the one that has been more heavily marketed and it tends to add a price markup is called DualBIOS(tm) which is kinda like a RAID1 CMOS. Munir Nassar RedConcepts.NET http://redconcepts.net/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Mon Oct 27 16:59:44 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Can't telnet to 675 router In-Reply-To: References: <1067283800.9472.150.camel@unixws1> Message-ID: <3F9DA360.5090201@visi.com> the only thing you can do is power it off and on. You should be able to telnet in to it after that. The darn things get hung up for some reason. Sam. David Dyer-Bennet wrote: >Adam Maloney writes: > > > >>I think it won't allow telnet if there's no exec password set. But IIRC >>you would get some sort of message about that (but maybe not with your >>version of code?) >> >> > >Both passwords are set (or at least were long ago). (And I was able >to telnet to it at some long-ago time; i.e. the last time I had >occasion to try.) > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Mon Oct 27 17:01:25 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: bios battery replacement in laptop In-Reply-To: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD526FACD@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> References: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD526FACD@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> Message-ID: <3F9DA3C5.9020303@visi.com> Maybe Geek Squad can help you out? Or NEI... Lansing, Dan wrote: >Off topic I know... I have recently acquired a Winbook X1 and the BIOS battery is dead...Winbook support was useless other than telling me it was soldered onto the board and I would have to send it in...does anyone out there have any experience with this sort of thing? I have found several links online for Winbook bios batteries...none for this model, but I'm sure I can find somewhere locally to get a battery...and I was unable to find anything on replacing the battery yourself...my soldering skills suck and I would like to find someone to assist me.....respond off list if you are interested in helping and have the skills to do this > >thanks >Dan Lansing > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Mon Oct 27 17:07:12 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mandrake 9.2 is dangerious... In-Reply-To: <20031027162742.GC25074@faculty.cns.uni.edu> References: <20031027162742.GC25074@faculty.cns.uni.edu> Message-ID: <3F9DA520.5080800@visi.com> Sounds like M$ had their fingers in this one ;-) Aaron Thompson wrote: >Bad news for Mandrake Lovers... 9.2 could cause physical >damage... > >If you have a cdrom from LG Electronics (Suposedly Dell uses >these) it would be a good idea to _not_ install Mandrake 9.2 >right now. > >http://www.linuxworld.com/story/35661.htm >http://www.mandrakelinux.com/en/errata.php3#badlg > >---- >Error scenario: Installing 9.2 and being told unable to install >the base system and subsequent reboot reveals that CD-ROM drive >is physically dead. > >Why: According to LG Electronics, their ODD (Optical Disc Drive) >products do not support Linux nor do they test with Linux. >Unfortunately, many Dell computers (possibly others) come with >these CD-ROM drives. > >Solution: Currently there is no solution or work-around for >this issue; it is still under investigation. Damage occurs even >when doing a network install. At this point, please do not >install Mandrake Linux 9.2 on any computer containing a >LG-based CD-ROM drive or it will damage your CD-ROM drive! We >are actively looking for a solution to this problem. >---- > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com Mon Oct 27 17:00:55 2003 From: Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com (Lansing, Dan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: bios battery replacement in laptop Message-ID: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D3776@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> Ick...no Dan Lansing -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Sam MacDonald Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 5:01 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] OT: bios battery replacement in laptop Maybe Geek Squad can help you out? Or NEI... _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ben_b at ppdonline.com Mon Oct 27 17:39:24 2003 From: ben_b at ppdonline.com (Ben Bargabus) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Can't telnet to 675 router References: <1067283800.9472.150.camel@unixws1> <3F9DA360.5090201@visi.com> Message-ID: <3F9DACAC.3B8EA45B@ppdonline.com> When you power down, leave it unplugged for a minute or two. Sometimes they'll have enough residual energy that they don't "forget" everything if you just pull the power and put it right back on. Later, Ben. Sam MacDonald wrote: > > the only thing you can do is power it off and on. You should be able to > telnet in to it after that. The darn things get hung up for some reason. > > Sam. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lxy at cloudnet.com Mon Oct 27 18:10:07 2003 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mandrake 9.2 is dangerious... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, Munir Nassar wrote: > The other kind is the one that has been more heavily marketed and it tends > to add a price markup is called DualBIOS(tm) which is kinda like a RAID1 > CMOS. RAID1? Hmm.. I wasn't aware of that one. I know there's a couple out there, but most it's either A) A true ROM that contains a known good, factory image that can't be overwritten or B) a pair of EEPROMs. The trick with 2 EEPROMs is making sure at least one of them has a good image at all times. -Brian _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dd-b at dd-b.net Tue Oct 28 02:44:19 2003 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Can't telnet to 675 router In-Reply-To: <3F9DACAC.3B8EA45B@ppdonline.com> References: <1067283800.9472.150.camel@unixws1> <3F9DA360.5090201@visi.com> <3F9DACAC.3B8EA45B@ppdonline.com> Message-ID: "Ben Bargabus" writes: > When you power down, leave it unplugged for a minute or two. Sometimes > they'll have enough residual energy that they don't "forget" everything > if you just pull the power and put it right back on. I suppose I'll have to give it a try. I'm kinda afraid to go that deep, since it's working now for everything else. If I reboot it who knows what will happen? It's useful to know that people feel the telnet does tend to get locked up in extended runs. That's hopeful, anyway. -- David Dyer-Bennet, , RKBA: Photos: Snapshots: Dragaera/Steven Brust: _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Tue Oct 28 07:19:36 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Can't telnet to 675 router In-Reply-To: References: <1067283800.9472.150.camel@unixws1> <3F9DA360.5090201@visi.com> <3F9DACAC.3B8EA45B@ppdonline.com> Message-ID: <3F9E6CE8.20602@visi.com> It what your ISP would have you do. Who's your ISP? See if they can get in to the router. Sam. David Dyer-Bennet wrote: >"Ben Bargabus" writes: > > > >>When you power down, leave it unplugged for a minute or two. Sometimes >>they'll have enough residual energy that they don't "forget" everything >>if you just pull the power and put it right back on. >> >> > >I suppose I'll have to give it a try. I'm kinda afraid to go that >deep, since it's working now for everything else. If I reboot it who >knows what will happen? > >It's useful to know that people feel the telnet does tend to get >locked up in extended runs. That's hopeful, anyway. > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Tue Oct 28 08:04:44 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Can't telnet to 675 router In-Reply-To: References: <1067283800.9472.150.camel@unixws1> <3F9DA360.5090201@visi.com> <3F9DACAC.3B8EA45B@ppdonline.com> Message-ID: <1067349883.585.6.camel@unixws1> Think of it this way - it's probably better to do it sometime soon, when you know what's going on and have time to deal with it, then to have it happen the next time you lose power for half a second, and have a term paper due or have a porno emergency. Not to scare you, but I've seen them fail after a power cycle where you can't even get into ROM. It becomes a $295 frisbee. If it turns out to choke and cough blood, I might still have one laying around at home I'd be willing to part with really cheap. You might be better off buying a 678 though (ebay), since it will work with both CAP (675) and DMT. I wouldn't be surprised if Qwest had a forced DMT conversion for all CAP customers within the next 12 to 24 months. Just be aware of that possibility before you shell out any dough for another modem, if it comes to that. And I sincerely hope it doesn't! On Tue, 2003-10-28 at 02:44, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > "Ben Bargabus" writes: > > > When you power down, leave it unplugged for a minute or two. Sometimes > > they'll have enough residual energy that they don't "forget" everything > > if you just pull the power and put it right back on. > > I suppose I'll have to give it a try. I'm kinda afraid to go that > deep, since it's working now for everything else. If I reboot it who > knows what will happen? > > It's useful to know that people feel the telnet does tend to get > locked up in extended runs. That's hopeful, anyway. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blots at visi.com Tue Oct 28 08:26:01 2003 From: blots at visi.com (Tom Penney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: bios battery replacement in laptop In-Reply-To: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD526FACD@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> References: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD526FACD@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> Message-ID: <1067351161.9497.1551.camel@lotsa> On Mon, 2003-10-27 at 11:23, Lansing, Dan wrote: > Off topic I know... I have recently acquired a Winbook X1 and the BIOS battery is dead...Winbook support was useless other than telling me it was soldered onto the board and I would have to send it in...does anyone out there have any experience with this sort of thing? I have found several links online for Winbook bios batteries...none for this model, but I'm sure I can find somewhere locally to get a battery...and I was unable to find anything on replacing the battery yourself...my soldering skills suck and I would like to find someone to assist me.....respond off list if you are interested in helping and have the skills to do this > > thanks > Dan Lansing Have you had it apart? They probably just told you it was soldered on because they don't want you opening it up. a soldered on battery just seems like a really dumb idea to me. I've had a few laptops apart and I've soldered my own laptop boards but I don't think I'd be comfortable soldering someone else's. Tom Penney _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rware at interplastic.com Tue Oct 28 08:36:07 2003 From: rware at interplastic.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: bios battery replacement in laptop Message-ID: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B2CA@ipserver2.interplastic.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Penney [mailto:blots@visi.com] > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 8:26 AM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] OT: bios battery replacement in laptop > > > On Mon, 2003-10-27 at 11:23, Lansing, Dan wrote: > > Off topic I know... I have recently acquired a Winbook X1 > and the BIOS battery is dead...Winbook support was useless > other than telling me it was soldered onto the board and I > would have to send it in...does anyone out there have any > experience with this sort of thing? I have found several > links online for Winbook bios batteries...none for this > model, but I'm sure I can find somewhere locally to get a > battery...and I was unable to find anything on replacing the > battery yourself...my soldering skills suck and I would like > to find someone to assist me.....respond off list if you are > interested in helping and have the skills to do this > > > > thanks > > Dan Lansing > > Have you had it apart? They probably just told you it was soldered on > because they don't want you opening it up. a soldered on battery just > seems like a really dumb idea to me. I've seen compaq deskpro's with the battery soldered. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com Tue Oct 28 08:43:52 2003 From: Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com (Lansing, Dan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: bios battery replacement in laptop Message-ID: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D3777@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> I haven't located the battery yet...im doing this at work and didn't have any ESD bags for parts...i brought some today as well as real tools so I should be able to locate it....i believe them when they say it is soldered in because I found replacement batteries for other Winbook models online and most required soldering Dan Lansing ITSC Have you had it apart? They probably just told you it was soldered on because they don't want you opening it up. a soldered on battery just seems like a really dumb idea to me. I've had a few laptops apart and I've soldered my own laptop boards but I don't think I'd be comfortable soldering someone else's. Tom Penney _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Tue Oct 28 08:48:18 2003 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (Johnny Fulcrum) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: bios battery replacement in laptop In-Reply-To: <1067351161.9497.1551.camel@lotsa> References: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD526FACD@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> <1067351161.9497.1551.camel@lotsa> Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 08:26:01 -0600, Tom Penney wrote: > On Mon, 2003-10-27 at 11:23, Lansing, Dan wrote: >> Off topic I know... I have recently acquired a Winbook X1 and the BIOS >> battery is dead...Winbook support was useless other than telling me it >> was soldered onto the board and I would have to send it in...does >> anyone out there have any experience with this sort of thing? I have >> found several links online for Winbook bios batteries...none for this >> model, but I'm sure I can find somewhere locally to get a battery...and >> I was unable to find anything on replacing the battery yourself...my >> soldering skills suck and I would like to find someone to assist >> me.....respond off list if you are interested in helping and have the >> skills to do this >> >> thanks >> Dan Lansing > > Have you had it apart? They probably just told you it was soldered on > because they don't want you opening it up. a soldered on battery just > seems like a really dumb idea to me. > > I've had a few laptops apart and I've soldered my own laptop boards but > I don't think I'd be comfortable soldering someone else's. > JB weld. It's the only way to go. > > Tom Penney > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dd-b at dd-b.net Tue Oct 28 15:10:16 2003 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Can't telnet to 675 router In-Reply-To: <3F9E6CE8.20602@visi.com> References: <1067283800.9472.150.camel@unixws1> <3F9DA360.5090201@visi.com> <3F9DACAC.3B8EA45B@ppdonline.com> <3F9E6CE8.20602@visi.com> Message-ID: Sam MacDonald writes: > It what your ISP would have you do. Who's your ISP? > See if they can get in to the router. They can't, they don't know the passwords :-) (I'm a qwest.net home-office customer) -- David Dyer-Bennet, , RKBA: Photos: Snapshots: Dragaera/Steven Brust: _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dd-b at dd-b.net Tue Oct 28 15:14:11 2003 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Can't telnet to 675 router In-Reply-To: <1067349883.585.6.camel@unixws1> References: <1067283800.9472.150.camel@unixws1> <3F9DA360.5090201@visi.com> <3F9DACAC.3B8EA45B@ppdonline.com> <1067349883.585.6.camel@unixws1> Message-ID: Adam Maloney writes: > Think of it this way - it's probably better to do it sometime soon, when > you know what's going on and have time to deal with it, then to have it > happen the next time you lose power for half a second, and have a term > paper due or have a porno emergency. The battery in the UPS, though old, is good for more than a half second, anyway :-). You're right that it might be slightly better to control *when* the risk is taken. Maybe tonight, if I get the deadline this afternoon met. > Not to scare you, but I've seen them fail after a power cycle where you > can't even get into ROM. It becomes a $295 frisbee. Luckily I got it free. It was the Pipeline 50 (older ISDN router) that I paid $1495 for and sold for $75. > If it turns out to choke and cough blood, I might still have one laying > around at home I'd be willing to part with really cheap. You might be > better off buying a 678 though (ebay), since it will work with both CAP > (675) and DMT. I wouldn't be surprised if Qwest had a forced DMT > conversion for all CAP customers within the next 12 to 24 months. Just > be aware of that possibility before you shell out any dough for another > modem, if it comes to that. And I sincerely hope it doesn't! And if I upgrade to DMT, I could consider getting 1megabit service. (Changing the service in any way apparently forces a DMT conversion now). Anybody know anything about the 2 megabit business cable service being available in South Minneapolis? If I'm going to go through hell, I might as well maximize the benefits. -- David Dyer-Bennet, , RKBA: Photos: Snapshots: Dragaera/Steven Brust: _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dutchman_mn at charter.net Tue Oct 28 15:46:08 2003 From: dutchman_mn at charter.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Using a different module Message-ID: <1067377568.2540.3.camel@ix.norsemen.org> Is it possible to use a module compiled for a different level of the OS? I am running 2.4.20-2.2 and I am trying to load an ntfs driver. I receive the following: ntfs.o was compiled for kernel version 2.4.20-19.8 while this kernel is version 2.4.20-2.2 I can't compile the driver from source because I don't happen to have the source on this box and I can't find a copy of 2.4.20-2.2 anywhere on the net. If I can, how do I load the module? Perry Hoekstra _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bmaas at open-techsys.com Tue Oct 28 16:23:29 2003 From: bmaas at open-techsys.com (Ben Maas) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Using a different module In-Reply-To: <1067377568.2540.3.camel@ix.norsemen.org> References: <1067377568.2540.3.camel@ix.norsemen.org> Message-ID: <200310281623.29997.bmaas@open-techsys.com> The only way to do it is to disable "Module version checking" in the kernel. Of course you'd have to recompile the kernel to do that. In that case you might as well just compile the ntfs.o module from the 2.4.20-19.8 sources. Confused yet? :-) If you have the 2.4.20-19.8 kernel sources you should be able to build just the modules without having to rebuild the whole kernel. If you need help doing that, let me know. On Tuesday 28 October 2003 03:46 pm, Perry Hoekstra wrote: > Is it possible to use a module compiled for a different level of the > OS? I am running 2.4.20-2.2 and I am trying to load an ntfs driver. I > receive the following: > > ntfs.o was compiled for kernel version 2.4.20-19.8 while this kernel is > version 2.4.20-2.2 > > I can't compile the driver from source because I don't happen to have > the source on this box and I can't find a copy of 2.4.20-2.2 anywhere on > the net. > > If I can, how do I load the module? > > Perry Hoekstra > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Ben Maas - Technology Architect Open Technology Systems, LLC ----------------------------------------------------------- eMail: bmaas@open-techsys.com Web: http://www.open-techsys.com Phone: 952.448.3121 Fax: 952.448.4944 Cell: 612.743.3674 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dutchman_mn at charter.net Tue Oct 28 16:12:23 2003 From: dutchman_mn at charter.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Using a different module In-Reply-To: <200310281623.29997.bmaas@open-techsys.com> References: <1067377568.2540.3.camel@ix.norsemen.org> <200310281623.29997.bmaas@open-techsys.com> Message-ID: <1067379143.2540.8.camel@ix.norsemen.org> On Tue, 2003-10-28 at 16:23, Ben Maas wrote: > The only way to do it is to disable "Module version checking" in the kernel. > Of course you'd have to recompile the kernel to do that. In that case you > might as well just compile the ntfs.o module from the 2.4.20-19.8 sources. > Confused yet? :-) > > If you have the 2.4.20-19.8 kernel sources you should be able to build just > the modules without having to rebuild the whole kernel. If you need help > doing that, let me know. Why would I want to build the ntfs module from the 2.4.20-19-8 sources? I have the module from that build. The problem is that I am running a 2.4.20-2.2 kernel that I don't have the source for. Therefore I can't compile the ntfs module for a 2.4.20-2.2 environment. Perry Hoekstra _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bmaas at open-techsys.com Tue Oct 28 16:39:09 2003 From: bmaas at open-techsys.com (Ben Maas) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Using a different module In-Reply-To: <1067379143.2540.8.camel@ix.norsemen.org> References: <1067377568.2540.3.camel@ix.norsemen.org> <200310281623.29997.bmaas@open-techsys.com> <1067379143.2540.8.camel@ix.norsemen.org> Message-ID: <200310281639.09420.bmaas@open-techsys.com> Oops. Got that switched around backwords. OK, then what you could do is modify the Makefile in the 2.4.20-19.8 sources. Modify the "EXTRAVERSION" line to: EXTRAVERSION = -2.2 Then compile the module. Since both are based on the same base kernel it shouldn't be a problem. On Tuesday 28 October 2003 04:12 pm, Perry Hoekstra wrote: > On Tue, 2003-10-28 at 16:23, Ben Maas wrote: > > The only way to do it is to disable "Module version checking" in the > > kernel. Of course you'd have to recompile the kernel to do that. In that > > case you might as well just compile the ntfs.o module from the > > 2.4.20-19.8 sources. Confused yet? :-) > > > > If you have the 2.4.20-19.8 kernel sources you should be able to build > > just the modules without having to rebuild the whole kernel. If you need > > help doing that, let me know. > > Why would I want to build the ntfs module from the 2.4.20-19-8 sources? > I have the module from that build. The problem is that I am running a > 2.4.20-2.2 kernel that I don't have the source for. Therefore I can't > compile the ntfs module for a 2.4.20-2.2 environment. > > Perry Hoekstra > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Ben Maas - Technology Architect Open Technology Systems, LLC ----------------------------------------------------------- eMail: bmaas@open-techsys.com Web: http://www.open-techsys.com Phone: 952.448.3121 Fax: 952.448.4944 Cell: 612.743.3674 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kbongers at mninter.net Tue Oct 28 16:27:45 2003 From: kbongers at mninter.net (Karl Bongers) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Using a different module In-Reply-To: <1067377568.2540.3.camel@ix.norsemen.org> References: <1067377568.2540.3.camel@ix.norsemen.org> Message-ID: <20031028222745.GA924@karl> You can try insmod -f On Tue, Oct 28, 2003 at 03:46:08PM -0600, Perry Hoekstra wrote: > Is it possible to use a module compiled for a different level of the > OS? I am running 2.4.20-2.2 and I am trying to load an ntfs driver. I > receive the following: > > ntfs.o was compiled for kernel version 2.4.20-19.8 while this kernel is > version 2.4.20-2.2 > > I can't compile the driver from source because I don't happen to have > the source on this box and I can't find a copy of 2.4.20-2.2 anywhere on > the net. > > If I can, how do I load the module? > > Perry Hoekstra _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dutchman_mn at charter.net Tue Oct 28 16:33:18 2003 From: dutchman_mn at charter.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Using a different module In-Reply-To: <200310281639.09420.bmaas@open-techsys.com> References: <1067377568.2540.3.camel@ix.norsemen.org> <200310281623.29997.bmaas@open-techsys.com> <1067379143.2540.8.camel@ix.norsemen.org> <200310281639.09420.bmaas@open-techsys.com> Message-ID: <1067380398.2540.14.camel@ix.norsemen.org> On Tue, 2003-10-28 at 16:39, Ben Maas wrote: > Oops. Got that switched around backwords. > > OK, then what you could do is modify the Makefile in the 2.4.20-19.8 sources. > Modify the "EXTRAVERSION" line to: > > EXTRAVERSION = -2.2 > > Then compile the module. > > Since both are based on the same base kernel it shouldn't be a problem. > Okay, Let's walk through this like I am a five year old (which isn't far off the mark). Download the source for 2.4.20-19.8 and compile the ntfs source against that, making a change in the Makefile so that it looks like a 2.4.20-2.2 module when it comes out the other end. Correct? Perry Hoekstra _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dutchman_mn at charter.net Tue Oct 28 16:39:08 2003 From: dutchman_mn at charter.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Using a different module In-Reply-To: <20031028222745.GA924@karl> References: <1067377568.2540.3.camel@ix.norsemen.org> <20031028222745.GA924@karl> Message-ID: <1067380748.2540.16.camel@ix.norsemen.org> On Tue, 2003-10-28 at 16:27, Karl Bongers wrote: > You can try insmod -f > Nope, it barfs like this: [BigDog@ix BigDog]$ /sbin/insmod -f ntfs Using /lib/modules/2.4.20-2.2/kernel/fs/ntfs/ntfs.o Warning: kernel-module version mismatch /lib/modules/2.4.20-2.2/kernel/fs/ntfs/ntfs.o was compiled for kernel version 2.4.20-19.8 while this kernel is version 2.4.20-2.2 /lib/modules/2.4.20-2.2/kernel/fs/ntfs/ntfs.o: unresolved symbol ll_rw_block_Rc97b49fd .. .. .. Thank you for the tip though! Perry Hoekstra _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bmaas at open-techsys.com Tue Oct 28 17:04:40 2003 From: bmaas at open-techsys.com (Ben Maas) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Using a different module In-Reply-To: <1067380398.2540.14.camel@ix.norsemen.org> References: <1067377568.2540.3.camel@ix.norsemen.org> <200310281639.09420.bmaas@open-techsys.com> <1067380398.2540.14.camel@ix.norsemen.org> Message-ID: <200310281704.40466.bmaas@open-techsys.com> Yep, exactly. The version that gets compiled into kernel and all the modules is generated from the Makefile. Doing this kind of a hack can be dangerous if you're going between to different "unpatched" kernel versions (i.e. v2.4.20 and v2.4.21) because some of the internal symbols "might" change (even though the "shouldn't"). However, since in this case you're dealing two kernels dirved from the same unpatched sources you should be ok. On Tuesday 28 October 2003 04:33 pm, Perry Hoekstra wrote: > On Tue, 2003-10-28 at 16:39, Ben Maas wrote: > > Oops. Got that switched around backwords. > > > > OK, then what you could do is modify the Makefile in the 2.4.20-19.8 > > sources. Modify the "EXTRAVERSION" line to: > > > > EXTRAVERSION = -2.2 > > > > Then compile the module. > > > > Since both are based on the same base kernel it shouldn't be a problem. > > Okay, > > Let's walk through this like I am a five year old (which isn't far off > the mark). Download the source for 2.4.20-19.8 and compile the ntfs > source against that, making a change in the Makefile so that it looks > like a 2.4.20-2.2 module when it comes out the other end. Correct? > > Perry Hoekstra > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Ben Maas - Technology Architect Open Technology Systems, LLC ----------------------------------------------------------- eMail: bmaas@open-techsys.com Web: http://www.open-techsys.com Phone: 952.448.3121 Fax: 952.448.4944 Cell: 612.743.3674 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Tue Oct 28 16:49:09 2003 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Can't telnet to 675 router In-Reply-To: References: <1067283800.9472.150.camel@unixws1> <3F9DA360.5090201@visi.com> <3F9DACAC.3B8EA45B@ppdonline.com> <1067349883.585.6.camel@unixws1> Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Oct 2003, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > Anybody know anything about the 2 megabit business cable service being > available in South Minneapolis? If I'm going to go through hell, I > might as well maximize the benefits. If you're on RoadRunner's cable network (South Minneapolis, you should be), you should be able to get their business service. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bmaas at open-techsys.com Tue Oct 28 17:08:32 2003 From: bmaas at open-techsys.com (Ben Maas) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Using a different module In-Reply-To: <1067380398.2540.14.camel@ix.norsemen.org> References: <1067377568.2540.3.camel@ix.norsemen.org> <200310281639.09420.bmaas@open-techsys.com> <1067380398.2540.14.camel@ix.norsemen.org> Message-ID: <200310281708.32477.bmaas@open-techsys.com> Oh, and here would be the instructions: 1) unpack 2.4.20-19.8 sources 2) modify Makefile 3) run "make menuconfig" to choose the proper modules 4) run "make dep clean modules modules_install" to build and install the modules. 5) verify that the new module was put into /lib/modules/2.4.20-2.2/kernel/fs/ ntfs 6) run "modprobe ntfs" On Tuesday 28 October 2003 04:33 pm, Perry Hoekstra wrote: > On Tue, 2003-10-28 at 16:39, Ben Maas wrote: > > Oops. Got that switched around backwords. > > > > OK, then what you could do is modify the Makefile in the 2.4.20-19.8 > > sources. Modify the "EXTRAVERSION" line to: > > > > EXTRAVERSION = -2.2 > > > > Then compile the module. > > > > Since both are based on the same base kernel it shouldn't be a problem. > > Okay, > > Let's walk through this like I am a five year old (which isn't far off > the mark). Download the source for 2.4.20-19.8 and compile the ntfs > source against that, making a change in the Makefile so that it looks > like a 2.4.20-2.2 module when it comes out the other end. Correct? > > Perry Hoekstra > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Ben Maas - Technology Architect Open Technology Systems, LLC ----------------------------------------------------------- eMail: bmaas@open-techsys.com Web: http://www.open-techsys.com Phone: 952.448.3121 Fax: 952.448.4944 Cell: 612.743.3674 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From admin at lctn.org Tue Oct 28 17:06:20 2003 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] httpd.conf Message-ID: <012c01c39da8$1a2980e0$590215ac@DELL2> Just a quick question. I am trying to secure a directory in my cgi-bin , but I do not get a password prompt. If I move the directory outside of the cgi-bin it works. What is the safest way to get this to work without moving the "wol" directory outside of cgi-bin AllowOverride None Options None Order allow,deny Allow from all AuthUserFile /var/passwd/.passwd AuthName "Members Only" AuthType Basic require valid-user _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ben.neigebauer at compellent.com Mon Oct 27 10:37:58 2003 From: ben.neigebauer at compellent.com (Neigebauer, Ben) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Common Users? Message-ID: <146431CFD07FE94984B432636FCDF8060FB887@C1MAIL1.agiliti.net> I have three machines with: I-Mac with 10.2 Linux with Mandrake 9 something Laptop with Windows 98 (can make it windows 2000, maybe) I'd like common users with common passwords between all the computers. Should I set up a domain controller on the linux machine? Benjamin E. Neigebauer Software Engineer Compellent Technologies Eden Prairie, MN 55344 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 4126 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031027/ed34e092/attachment.bin -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dutchman_mn at charter.net Tue Oct 28 18:32:46 2003 From: dutchman_mn at charter.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Using a different module In-Reply-To: <200310281708.32477.bmaas@open-techsys.com> References: <1067377568.2540.3.camel@ix.norsemen.org> <200310281639.09420.bmaas@open-techsys.com> <1067380398.2540.14.camel@ix.norsemen.org> <200310281708.32477.bmaas@open-techsys.com> Message-ID: <1067387566.2540.19.camel@ix.norsemen.org> On Tue, 2003-10-28 at 17:08, Ben Maas wrote: > Oh, and here would be the instructions: > > 1) unpack 2.4.20-19.8 sources > 2) modify Makefile > 3) run "make menuconfig" to choose the proper modules > 4) run "make dep clean modules modules_install" to build and install the > modules. > 5) verify that the new module was put into /lib/modules/2.4.20-2.2/kernel/fs/ > ntfs > 6) run "modprobe ntfs" > No joy .. It barfs with /sbin/modprobe ntfs /lib/modules/2.4.20-2.2/kernel/fs/ntfs/ntfs.o: unresolved symbol getblk_Rsmp_59b8931d /lib/modules/2.4.20-2.2/kernel/fs/ntfs/ntfs.o: unresolved symbol seq_printf_Rsmp_5b4eb2e4 /lib/modules/2.4.20-2.2/kernel/fs/ntfs/ntfs.o: unresolved symbol generic_read_dir_Rsmp_6b329d99 /lib/modules/2.4.20-2.2/kernel/fs/ntfs/ntfs.o: unresolved symbol strsep_Rsmp_85df9b6c /lib/modules/2.4.20-2.2/kernel/fs/ntfs/ntfs.o: unresolved symbol is_bad_inode_Rsmp_e799fb04 .. .. .. But thank you for the effort. Perry Hoekstra _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Tue Oct 28 20:54:47 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Common Users? References: <146431CFD07FE94984B432636FCDF8060FB887@C1MAIL1.agiliti.net> Message-ID: <004701c39dc8$03e6e730$0201a8c0@brinstar> Neigebauer, Ben writes: > I have three machines with: > [...] > I'd like common users with common passwords between all the computers. What problem are you trying to solve? -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Tue Oct 28 21:21:30 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] httpd.conf References: <012c01c39da8$1a2980e0$590215ac@DELL2> Message-ID: <005d01c39dcb$bf494d80$0201a8c0@brinstar> Raymond Norton writes: > Just a quick question. I am trying to secure a directory in my > cgi-bin , but I do not get a password prompt. If I move the directory > outside of the cgi-bin it works. What is the safest way to get this > to work without moving the "wol" directory outside of cgi-bin I recommend using .htaccess whenever possible instead of putting directory specific config info into httpd.conf. You will need to enable AuthConfig in the AllowOverride directive for that path. An easy way to test that Apache is using access rules is to deny everything: Deny from all Once you have that working, you can change it to allow valid users. You need to understand how HTTP authentication works. The first time a request is made to a protected URL, the server returns an HTTP 401 Unauthorized with a WWW-Authenticate header field. Normally, this causes the browser to prompt the user for a username and password. The browser then repeats the request with credentials that the user entered. If these are incorrect, the server again responds with a 401. Pressing the cancel button on the username and password dialog usually cause the browser to display the 401 page. After successfully authenticating, most browsers will then use the same credentials for every URL on that domain during the same session, or forever if the "save password" box is checked. This can cause confusion when configuring a server, since it will appear that the server is not requiring authentication. See RFC 2617 for more info about HTTP authentication. > You probably don't want this Limit section. Remove it. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From list at slushpupie.com Tue Oct 28 21:58:27 2003 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] httpd.conf In-Reply-To: <005d01c39dcb$bf494d80$0201a8c0@brinstar> References: <012c01c39da8$1a2980e0$590215ac@DELL2> <005d01c39dcb$bf494d80$0201a8c0@brinstar> Message-ID: <20031029035827.GA20335@slushpupie.com> On Tue, Oct 28, 2003 at 09:21:30PM -0600, David Phillips (david@acz.org) wrote: > Raymond Norton writes: > > Just a quick question. I am trying to secure a directory in my > > cgi-bin , but I do not get a password prompt. If I move the directory > > outside of the cgi-bin it works. What is the safest way to get this > > to work without moving the "wol" directory outside of cgi-bin > > I recommend using .htaccess whenever possible instead of putting directory > specific config info into httpd.conf. You will need to enable AuthConfig in > the AllowOverride directive for that path. The Apache group thinks differently. I guess its a matter of how busy your server is, since if you set up apache to use .htaccess files it must check in every directory for it. http://httpd.apache.org/docs/howto/htaccess.html This gives a good tutorial on how to use htaccess files (and when not to use them) Jay _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Tue Oct 28 23:42:11 2003 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Common Users? In-Reply-To: <146431CFD07FE94984B432636FCDF8060FB887@C1MAIL1.agiliti.net> References: <146431CFD07FE94984B432636FCDF8060FB887@C1MAIL1.agiliti.net> Message-ID: <1067406131.1533.105.camel@3po> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Tue Oct 28 23:56:17 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] httpd.conf References: <012c01c39da8$1a2980e0$590215ac@DELL2><005d01c39dcb$bf494d80$0201a8c0@brinstar> <20031029035827.GA20335@slushpupie.com> Message-ID: <000b01c39de1$5e67cfd0$0201a8c0@brinstar> Jay Kline writes: > The Apache group thinks differently. I guess its a matter of how busy > your server is, since if you set up apache to use .htaccess files it > must check in every directory for it. If performance is that critical, you shouldn't be using Apache. A few stat() and other file system calls that are cached by the OS aren't going to make much difference. A high traffic site is not usually limited by the CPU. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lxy at cloudnet.com Wed Oct 29 07:36:05 2003 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] httpd.conf In-Reply-To: <000b01c39de1$5e67cfd0$0201a8c0@brinstar> Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Oct 2003, David Phillips wrote: > If performance is that critical, you shouldn't be using Apache. Why's that? Please enlighten me... -Brian _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cschumann at twp-llc.com Wed Oct 29 08:47:39 2003 From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] httpd.conf In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > From: "David Phillips" > I recommend using .htaccess whenever possible instead of putting directory > specific config info into httpd.conf. You will need to enable > AuthConfig in > the AllowOverride directive for that path. The Apache documentation plainly recommends AGAINST using .htaccess because of the severe performance hit it entails. Every request causes Apache to re-read the directory's .htaccess file and those files in each parent directory to determine permissions. If you've got a machine that only one person administers (or where everyone has sudo permissions), I agree with their recommendation. But, if you've got each user with access to their own web space and each one wants freedom to set up those permissions on the fly, then you'll need .htaccess to be working. Chris _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bmaas at open-techsys.com Wed Oct 29 10:32:38 2003 From: bmaas at open-techsys.com (Ben Maas) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Using a different module In-Reply-To: <1067387566.2540.19.camel@ix.norsemen.org> References: <1067377568.2540.3.camel@ix.norsemen.org> <200310281708.32477.bmaas@open-techsys.com> <1067387566.2540.19.camel@ix.norsemen.org> Message-ID: <200310291032.38586.bmaas@open-techsys.com> Dang, looks like a full recompile is in order :-( On Tuesday 28 October 2003 06:32 pm, Perry Hoekstra wrote: > On Tue, 2003-10-28 at 17:08, Ben Maas wrote: > > Oh, and here would be the instructions: > > > > 1) unpack 2.4.20-19.8 sources > > 2) modify Makefile > > 3) run "make menuconfig" to choose the proper modules > > 4) run "make dep clean modules modules_install" to build and install the > > modules. > > 5) verify that the new module was put into > > /lib/modules/2.4.20-2.2/kernel/fs/ ntfs > > 6) run "modprobe ntfs" > > No joy .. > > It barfs with > > /sbin/modprobe ntfs > /lib/modules/2.4.20-2.2/kernel/fs/ntfs/ntfs.o: unresolved symbol > getblk_Rsmp_59b8931d > /lib/modules/2.4.20-2.2/kernel/fs/ntfs/ntfs.o: unresolved symbol > seq_printf_Rsmp_5b4eb2e4 > /lib/modules/2.4.20-2.2/kernel/fs/ntfs/ntfs.o: unresolved symbol > generic_read_dir_Rsmp_6b329d99 > /lib/modules/2.4.20-2.2/kernel/fs/ntfs/ntfs.o: unresolved symbol > strsep_Rsmp_85df9b6c > /lib/modules/2.4.20-2.2/kernel/fs/ntfs/ntfs.o: unresolved symbol > is_bad_inode_Rsmp_e799fb04 > .. > .. > .. > > But thank you for the effort. > > Perry Hoekstra > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Ben Maas - Technology Architect Open Technology Systems, LLC ----------------------------------------------------------- eMail: bmaas@open-techsys.com Web: http://www.open-techsys.com Phone: 952.448.3121 Fax: 952.448.4944 Cell: 612.743.3674 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Wed Oct 29 10:18:07 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] httpd.conf References: Message-ID: <004301c39e38$3d268e40$0201a8c0@brinstar> Brian writes: >> If performance is that critical, you shouldn't be using Apache. > > Why's that? Please enlighten me... Apache is not scalable. Before everyone starts freaking out, let me explain. I'm not talking about the few hits a second from Slashdot that flooded your DSL line and crashed your 486. Apache will handle that fine. I'm talking about situations that most people will never run into, such as needing to push several hundred megabits of free hosting content or running a web application with many thousands of concurrent users. Those are the situations where worrying about .htaccess files might start to matter. (But on modern computers, probably not. I imagine that documentation was written when a good webserver was a 32MB Pentium 90.) Requiring a separate process per connection puts a fixed limit on the number of concurrent connections you can serve. A properly tuned box can usually handle many more than this. High traffic static sites, such as free hosts, are usually limited by bandwidth, operating system buffers or disk I/O. Apache's process model will cut off users well before these limits are reached. In addition, the extra load of having all those processes will have a noticable effect. Dynamic sites are often limited by memory or CPU. When you compile things like SSL and PHP into Apache, the processes get fat. Serving lots of clients causes there to be lots of bloated processes. It is much better to keep the content producers out of the web server and talk to them via FastCGI (for example, using mod_fastcgi). But the typical Apache way is to compile everything into the main server. As an example, you can handle the same amount of PHP traffic with only a few FastCGI processes that would take dozens of Apache processes. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dutchman_mn at charter.net Wed Oct 29 10:29:02 2003 From: dutchman_mn at charter.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Using a different module In-Reply-To: <200310291032.38586.bmaas@open-techsys.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:32:38 -0600 Ben Maas wrote: >Dang, looks like a full recompile is in order :-( Tried that and I f*scked it up. I am sooooooo toast. Down to using the kid's gaming/school work PC for a few days. I am going to restore the MBR in order to get GRUB out of the way and see if I can get the W2K side up enough to recover the files I need (the original purpose of this effort was my W2K side went down). Then I am going to start from scratch and either upgrade to RH9 or start with Debian. Thanks you for everything. Perry Hoekstra _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Wed Oct 29 10:46:21 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] httpd.conf Message-ID: David, I am not "freaking out", but I do want to know if this comment applies to only the Apache 1.3.x series (and those before it). Do the same limitations apply to the Apache 2.0.x series? My impression was that you could choose to use the old process model, but you were not limited to it (under 2.0.x). I have read that you can choose different multiprocessing models, depending on the OS platform, and some may prove more "scalable". I think 1.3.x may be harder to "scale" upwards than some solutions, but for me it more than makes up for that in flexibility (which can also sometimes be a downside too, I know). But when you say "not scalable", I ask where the hard chalk line is drawn between the worlds of "scalable" and "not so". A nitpick, maybe, and it is simply your opinion, sure, but my opinion is that many folks find the old and crusty Apache 1.3.x multiprocess model "scalable enough". I know I do, but my needs have limits (but I think most do). My 2 cents. Troy >>> david@acz.org 10/29/03 10:18AM >>> Requiring a separate process per connection puts a fixed limit on the number of concurrent connections you can serve. A properly tuned box can usually handle many more than this. High traffic static sites, such as free hosts, are usually limited by bandwidth, operating system buffers or disk I/O. Apache's process model will cut off users well before these limits are reached. In addition, the extra load of having all those processes will have a noticable effect. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dd-b at dd-b.net Wed Oct 29 10:55:22 2003 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Can't telnet to 675 router In-Reply-To: References: <1067283800.9472.150.camel@unixws1> <3F9DA360.5090201@visi.com> <3F9DACAC.3B8EA45B@ppdonline.com> <1067349883.585.6.camel@unixws1> Message-ID: Nate Carlson writes: > On Tue, 28 Oct 2003, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > > Anybody know anything about the 2 megabit business cable service being > > available in South Minneapolis? If I'm going to go through hell, I > > might as well maximize the benefits. > > If you're on RoadRunner's cable network (South Minneapolis, you should > be), you should be able to get their business service. The 768k business service, yes. But is the 2mb service rolled out here yet? I haven't seen signs of it. (I'm not a roadrunner internet customer now so I don't watch them really closely.) -- David Dyer-Bennet, , RKBA: Photos: Snapshots: Dragaera/Steven Brust: _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Wed Oct 29 11:10:15 2003 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:41 2005 Subject: [OT] [TCLUG] httpd.conf In-Reply-To: <004301c39e38$3d268e40$0201a8c0@brinstar> References: <004301c39e38$3d268e40$0201a8c0@brinstar> Message-ID: <20031029171015.GA9622@mail.el-swifto.com> On Wed, Oct 29, 2003 at 10:18:07AM -0600, David Phillips wrote: > Apache is not scalable. Dude, it's blanket statements like this that get you labeled as a troll. -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Wed Oct 29 12:55:43 2003 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Can't telnet to 675 router In-Reply-To: References: <1067283800.9472.150.camel@unixws1> <3F9DA360.5090201@visi.com> <3F9DACAC.3B8EA45B@ppdonline.com> <1067349883.585.6.camel@unixws1> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Oct 2003, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > The 768k business service, yes. But is the 2mb service rolled out here > yet? I haven't seen signs of it. (I'm not a roadrunner internet > customer now so I don't watch them really closely.) I know a guy I used to do some work with had it in Richfield, near South Minneapolis.. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From shulstad at frontiernet.net Wed Oct 29 13:33:42 2003 From: shulstad at frontiernet.net (John & Jan Schulstad) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ultra Newbie Question Message-ID: <005901c39e53$906d4420$7bf43243@ComputerRoom> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Wed Oct 29 13:34:47 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:41 2005 Subject: [OT] [TCLUG] httpd.conf References: <004301c39e38$3d268e40$0201a8c0@brinstar> <20031029171015.GA9622@mail.el-swifto.com> Message-ID: <001a01c39e53$b66eba50$0201a8c0@brinstar> John J. Trammell writes: >> Apache is not scalable. > > Dude, it's blanket statements like this that get you > labeled as a troll. Sure, if you'd like to quote a specific thing I wrote and ignore the lengthy explanation that followed. The Apache process model is inherently not scalable with current operating systems and computers. It does not scale nearly as well as other models. See this for more info: http://www.kegel.com/c10k.html -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Wed Oct 29 14:03:17 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] httpd.conf References: Message-ID: <002e01c39e57$b26ac170$0201a8c0@brinstar> Troy.A Johnson writes: > I am not "freaking out" That was not directed at you, but rather people who know little about web servers and assume Apache is the best web server available simply because it is the most popular. > Do the same limitations apply to the Apache 2.0.x series? Yes. On most popular free UNIX operating systems (Linux, FreeBSD), there is little difference between a process and a thread. In fact, on Linux (at least up through 2.4), threads are implemented as processes (i.e. LinuxThreads). It is theoretically possible for the performance of a preemptive thread based model to approach that of state threads model, but it doesn't work that way in practice right now. Here are a few interesting pages: http://www.kegel.com/c10k.html http://www.freebsd.org/kse/ http://cr.yp.to/lib/npthread.html http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/coroutines.html http://www.monkey.org/~provos/libevent/ > I think 1.3.x may be harder to "scale" upwards than some solutions, > but for me it more than makes up for that in flexibility (which can > also sometimes be a downside too, I know). I don't consider Apache to be any more flexible than Zeus. You can write modules for Apache and ISAPI filters for Zeus. There are nice features unique to both pieces of software, obviously, but Apache certainly does not have a monopoly on flexibility. > But when you say "not > scalable", I ask where the hard chalk line is drawn between > the worlds of "scalable" and "not so". I meant it in the sense of O(1) versus O(n). > A nitpick, maybe, and it is > simply your opinion, sure, but my opinion is that many folks find > the old and crusty Apache 1.3.x multiprocess model "scalable > enough". As I said, for most people, Apache is quite adequate. The original poster was having configuration difficulties. I gave him a recommendation based on years of experience working with web servers. Two people disagreed with that suggestion based on documentation that was likely written years ago, which addresses concerns that are not relevant to at least 99% of people running Apache, and certainly not relevant to the original poster. Hence my response about Apache's performance. Summary: If you are running CGI scripts on a process-per-connection web server, a few cached OS calls are the least of your performance worries. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Wed Oct 29 14:07:12 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:41 2005 Subject: [OT] [TCLUG] httpd.conf Message-ID: The statement assumes there is one process model, which doesn't seem to be true. See these links for more information: http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/new_features_2_0.html http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/mpm.html http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/mod/ Good luck, Troy >>> david@acz.org 10/29/03 01:34PM >>> The Apache process model is inherently not scalable with current operating systems and computers. It does not scale nearly as well as other models. See this for more info: http://www.kegel.com/c10k.html _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Wed Oct 29 14:23:39 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] httpd.conf Message-ID: Yes, on Linux and FreeBSD (which would be closer to "on topic", I suppose), but others do get a boost now: Win*, Solaris, and NetWare at least. I cannot speak to Zeus's flexibility, but you seem to like it a lot, so I may try it out (but unfortunately it is in a large stack of "side" projects). Even if I don't "like" it so much, if it is as efficient as you say, and not a PITN configuration-wise, I might want to use it as a light weight 1st stage server. Is that an easy task with Zeus? How well does it integrate with Perl? ;-) Troy >>> david@acz.org 10/29/03 02:03PM >>> Yes. On most popular free UNIX operating systems (Linux, FreeBSD), there is little difference between a process and a thread. In fact, on Linux (at least up through 2.4), threads are implemented as processes (i.e. LinuxThreads). It is theoretically possible for the performance of a preemptive thread based model to approach that of state threads model, but it doesn't work that way in practice right now. Here are a few interesting pages: http://www.kegel.com/c10k.html http://www.freebsd.org/kse/ http://cr.yp.to/lib/npthread.html http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/coroutines.html http://www.monkey.org/~provos/libevent/ > I think 1.3.x may be harder to "scale" upwards than some solutions, > but for me it more than makes up for that in flexibility (which can > also sometimes be a downside too, I know). I don't consider Apache to be any more flexible than Zeus. You can write modules for Apache and ISAPI filters for Zeus. There are nice features unique to both pieces of software, obviously, but Apache certainly does not have a monopoly on flexibility. > But when you say "not > scalable", I ask where the hard chalk line is drawn between > the worlds of "scalable" and "not so". I meant it in the sense of O(1) versus O(n). > A nitpick, maybe, and it is > simply your opinion, sure, but my opinion is that many folks find > the old and crusty Apache 1.3.x multiprocess model "scalable > enough". As I said, for most people, Apache is quite adequate. The original poster was having configuration difficulties. I gave him a recommendation based on years of experience working with web servers. Two people disagreed with that suggestion based on documentation that was likely written years ago, which addresses concerns that are not relevant to at least 99% of people running Apache, and certainly not relevant to the original poster. Hence my response about Apache's performance. Summary: If you are running CGI scripts on a process-per-connection web server, a few cached OS calls are the least of your performance worries. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Wed Oct 29 19:37:27 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (webmaster@mn-linux.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] A new classified ad at TCLUG Classifieds Message-ID: <200310300137.h9U1bRW23077@crusader.real-time.com> A new TCLUG classified ad at was placed Wed Oct 29 19:37:26 2003. Name: David Schiff Category: computersell Subject: Zaurus SL-5500 Ad: Sharp Zaurus SL-5500 (needs reflash)USB Dock, SanDisk 256MB CF and 265MB SD,Socket 56K CF modem,Trident Fast Ethernet TE-CF100. $400. To view this and other ads at TCLUG Classifieds, please visit: http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/classifieds.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Wed Oct 29 20:39:06 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] httpd.conf References: Message-ID: <002e01c39e8e$fd32b7d0$0201a8c0@brinstar> Troy.A Johnson writes: > Yes, on Linux and FreeBSD (which would be closer to > "on topic", I suppose), but others do get a boost now: > Win*, Solaris, and NetWare at least. It should put their performance on par with that of Linux or FreeBSD. > Even if I don't > "like" it so much, if it is as efficient as you say, and not a > PITN configuration-wise, I might want to use it as a > light weight 1st stage server. Is that an easy task with > Zeus? Zeus is advertised as the fastest web server available. If you're using Zeus, there is no reason to use anything else. It does everything. It is easy to configure using the included web interface (though everything can be scripted from the command line). > How well does it integrate with Perl? ;-) Zeus is compatible with Apache mod_perl: http://www.zeus.com/products/zws/dynamic/languages.html#mod_perl -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ben.neigebauer at compellent.com Wed Oct 29 10:13:54 2003 From: ben.neigebauer at compellent.com (Neigebauer, Ben) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Common Users? Message-ID: <146431CFD07FE94984B432636FCDF8060FB891@C1MAIL1.agiliti.net> The reason I asked this question is that when my future-mother-in-law comes over, I don't want to have here remember a different password for every computer. Sometimes she uses my laptop (Windows 98), other times she likes to play the games on my machine (Linux). Other times, she wants to use my future-wife's iMac. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Hicks [mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu] Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 11:42 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Common Users? On Mon, 2003-10-27 at 10:37, Neigebauer, Ben wrote: > I-Mac with 10.2 > Linux with Mandrake 9 something > Laptop with Windows 98 (can make it windows 2000, maybe) > > I'd like common users with common passwords between all the computers. > > Should I set up a domain controller on the linux machine? When you have such a small number of machines, especially when they are different OSes, the benefits can be outweighed by complexity. However, I think you've got the best idea already. Samba can be set up to provide user authentication for at least two of the three (Linux and Win98), and I imagine it's possible to convince the iMac to go along with it (though I've never tried). If you also want to be serving out home directories, I would actually think it best to use a combination of Samba (for the laptop) and NIS/NFS (for Linux and the iMac), but the password management between those can become troublesome, and I don't even know how well OS X integrates with NIS/NFS (I would imagine it would work fine, though). -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ 1200 bps used to seem so / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ fast \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.530 / Virus Database: 325 - Release Date: 10/22/2003 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From childers at physics.umn.edu Wed Oct 29 17:25:33 2003 From: childers at physics.umn.edu (J. Taylor Childers) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Computers talking through a router Message-ID: I am a physics grad at the U. I need to use a router to get two computers to communicate. So far I haven't had any luck. I set the two IP Addresses up as such: Comp 1 Comp 2 IP: 192.168.1.1 192.168.1.2 NETMASK: 255.255.0.0 255.255.0.0 GATEWAY: 192.168.1.1 192.168.1.1 Comp 1 is running Redhat 6.2 and Comp 2 is RH9. I can ping Comp 1 from Comp 2, but not visa versa. Comp 1 can ping itself, but not Comp 2. Any helpful thoughts? Thanks, Taylor Childers _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tanner at mn-linux.org Wed Oct 29 21:33:19 2003 From: tanner at mn-linux.org (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re-activating VERP Message-ID: <200310292133.19121@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> I'm going to re-activate VERP. Why? That short time it was on, it detected several hundred(!) bad email addresses. At first, I thought the problem was with mailman or exim, but I took the list, wrapped it inside a bash script and test all of them by hand. All 108 addresses bounced. VERP seems to crush the server, but at least we can weed out the dead accounts automatically. I believe a side effect of this will be some procmail changes if your are filtering on the sender. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Wed Oct 29 21:48:08 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Computers talking through a router References: Message-ID: <001701c39e98$a21a3530$0201a8c0@brinstar> J. Taylor Childers writes: > Comp 1 Comp 2 > IP: 192.168.1.1 192.168.1.2 > NETMASK: 255.255.0.0 255.255.0.0 > GATEWAY: 192.168.1.1 192.168.1.1 The computers won't be talking through the gateway, as they are on the same subnet. If the "router" is a typical home broadband router like you'd buy at CompUSA, then check to see if it has some sort of firewall enabled. If you connect the two computers to a normal switch, they shouldn't have any problems seeing each other. Also, make sure neither of the computers have a firewall enabled. It sounds like "Comp 2" could have a firewall that blocks pings. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Wed Oct 29 21:52:52 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Common Users? In-Reply-To: <146431CFD07FE94984B432636FCDF8060FB891@C1MAIL1.agiliti.net> References: <146431CFD07FE94984B432636FCDF8060FB891@C1MAIL1.agiliti.net> Message-ID: <20031029215252.50d0d0a0.sfertch@real-time.com> On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:13:54 -0600 "Neigebauer, Ben" wrote: > The reason I asked this question is that when my future-mother-in-law > comes over, I don't want to have here remember a different password > for every computer. > > Sometimes she uses my laptop (Windows 98), other times she likes to > play the games on my machine (Linux). Other times, she wants to use my > future-wife's iMac. > Sorry, don't have an answer to your question on passwords for common users, except that there are programs out there that do it. Can't think of names off the top of my head right now. But, this brings up questions... Why would you let her use your computers so freely? There's a lot of concerns here for it, one you don't know what she's doing on it (meaning you probably don't stand over her shoulder watching all the time) so she could accidentally pull malicious code down. She could snoop and find something and take it in a way to jeapordize your relationship, even if it is purely of an innocent nature on your behalf or your fiance's. Not to mention that something might break, and you'll have to try and fix it. After I'm done remodeling part of the house, for our guest room I'm putting a thin client in (LTSP) for when people stay over or want to use a computer. This way, they aren't on any system except one specifically designated for such usage. Sorry, I'm just anal about my systems and not letting people on them. Not because I'm hiding things, but because I don't want my configs messed up. -- Shawn The difficult we do today; the impossible take a little longer. Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Wed Oct 29 21:44:55 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Common Users? References: <146431CFD07FE94984B432636FCDF8060FB891@C1MAIL1.agiliti.net> Message-ID: <000801c39e98$2ee0ae00$0201a8c0@brinstar> Neigebauer, Ben writes: > The reason I asked this question is that when my future-mother-in-law > comes over, I don't want to have here remember a different password > for every computer. Simple solution: have her use the same password for each computer. It could even be blank. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tanner at real-time.com Wed Oct 29 21:37:22 2003 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: VERP check Message-ID: <20031029213722.A8650@real-time.com> VERP check. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Wed Oct 29 23:21:50 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Common Users? In-Reply-To: <20031029215252.50d0d0a0.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Oct 2003, Shawn wrote: > Sorry, I'm just anal about my systems and not letting people on them. > Not because I'm hiding things, but because I don't want my configs > messed up. If your configs are so easily broken, maybe you are doing something wrong. Munir Nassar RedConcepts.NET http://redconcepts.net/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ben.neigebauer at compellent.com Thu Oct 30 00:34:24 2003 From: ben.neigebauer at compellent.com (Neigebauer, Ben) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Common Users? Message-ID: <146431CFD07FE94984B432636FCDF806167EF5@C1MAIL1.agiliti.net> Well, I am close to having a LDAP enabled domain controller working anyway. -----Original Message----- From: Munir Nassar [mailto:nassarmu@redconcepts.net] Sent: Wed 10/29/2003 11:21 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Cc: Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Common Users? On Wed, 29 Oct 2003, Shawn wrote: > Sorry, I'm just anal about my systems and not letting people on them. > Not because I'm hiding things, but because I don't want my configs > messed up. If your configs are so easily broken, maybe you are doing something wrong. Munir Nassar RedConcepts.NET http://redconcepts.net/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 2674 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031030/936e1b0d/attachment.bin -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dd-b at dd-b.net Thu Oct 30 06:06:40 2003 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Can't telnet to 675 router In-Reply-To: References: <1067283800.9472.150.camel@unixws1> <3F9DA360.5090201@visi.com> <3F9DACAC.3B8EA45B@ppdonline.com> Message-ID: "David Dyer-Bennet" writes: > "Ben Bargabus" writes: > > > When you power down, leave it unplugged for a minute or two. Sometimes > > they'll have enough residual energy that they don't "forget" everything > > if you just pull the power and put it right back on. > > I suppose I'll have to give it a try. I'm kinda afraid to go that > deep, since it's working now for everything else. If I reboot it who > knows what will happen? > > It's useful to know that people feel the telnet does tend to get > locked up in extended runs. That's hopeful, anyway. Having now power-cycled it -- no change. It came back up fine, except I still can't telnet in. Bah, humbug. Okay, I guess I'll have to look into it with the serial cable sometime when I can haul a laptop over near it. -- David Dyer-Bennet, , RKBA: Photos: Snapshots: Dragaera/Steven Brust: _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Thu Oct 30 09:15:02 2003 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Computers talking through a router In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Oct 2003, J. Taylor Childers wrote: > I am a physics grad at the U. I need to use a router to get two > computers to communicate. So far I haven't had any luck. I set the two > IP Addresses up as such: > > Comp 1 Comp 2 > IP: 192.168.1.1 192.168.1.2 > NETMASK: 255.255.0.0 255.255.0.0 > GATEWAY: 192.168.1.1 192.168.1.1 > > Comp 1 is running Redhat 6.2 and Comp 2 is RH9. I can ping Comp 1 from > Comp 2, but not visa versa. Comp 1 can ping itself, but not Comp 2. Any > helpful thoughts? Are you using a router, or a hub/switch/bridge? If it's a router, that won't work - they need to be on separate networks. If it's a hub, switch, or bridge, you most likely have firewalling enabled on the RH9 machine, which would explain why you can't get at it from Computer 1. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Thu Oct 30 09:16:23 2003 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Common Users? In-Reply-To: <20031029215252.50d0d0a0.sfertch@real-time.com> References: <146431CFD07FE94984B432636FCDF8060FB891@C1MAIL1.agiliti.net> <20031029215252.50d0d0a0.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Oct 2003, Shawn wrote: > Sorry, I'm just anal about my systems and not letting people on them. > Not because I'm hiding things, but because I don't want my configs > messed up. If you only let them on the Linux box, and create an account especially for them, is it really so bad? What's the worse they can do? :) Windows, on the other hand... let's not go there. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Thu Oct 30 10:59:06 2003 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Computers talking through a router In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1067533146.1533.115.camel@3po> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kent at structural-wood.com Thu Oct 30 11:21:44 2003 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] apt4rpm newbie Message-ID: <3FA148A8.2070907@structural-wood.com> Hi, I'm trying to de-ximian a system since Ximian's aquisition has made free riding the red-carpet impractical. At any rate, I'm trying to use apt-get on my RedHat system to update things, and I've had pretty good success as long as I stay with freshrpms, but the minute I add other repositories I run into this error: Unknown signature /var/cache/apt/archives/nmap_2%3a3.00-3%5frh73_i386.rpm: md5 (GPG) NOT OK (MISSING KEYS: GPG#458A3EC9) I've been googling for a day now and haven't found a definitive answer as to how to rectify this. Lot's of hints, but no procedure to follow - like get this and put it in this file. Any help appreciated (no distro-wars please), Kent As an interesting note, I took a RedHat 7.0 system through 7.1, 7.2, 7.3, 8.0, and 9.0 yesterday using apt-get as a test. Things were still pretty functional after all that, although the transition from 7.3 to 8.0 appears to have stripped off a lot of media support - copyright issues I'm guessing. I can see why 8.0 didn't last very long. 9.0 seems pretty nice, and gnome is decidedly quicker. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tmarble at info9.net Thu Oct 30 12:14:50 2003 From: tmarble at info9.net (Tom Marble) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] apt4rpm newbie In-Reply-To: <3FA148A8.2070907@structural-wood.com> References: <3FA148A8.2070907@structural-wood.com> Message-ID: <3FA1551A.6030901@info9.net> Kent Schumacher wrote: > At any rate, I'm trying to use apt-get on my RedHat system > to update things, Your immediate bug may simply be that you need to get the GPG key for the repos you are adding... (like this, but for your other repos) rpm --import http://freshrpms.net/packages/builds/apt/RPM-GPG-KEY.freshrpms I agree that auto-updating (*a la* apt) is the only way to fly. I've been comparing the RPM flavor (follow on to RedHat) vs. DEB flavor (original debian apt-get). I happen to prefer debian at the moment, but I shall not open the distro war here. I'm currently running Fedora core 0.94 on another machine, but you may want to consider 0.95 now or Fedora Core 1 / Cambridge coming out next week: http://fedora.redhat.com/ I started with a RedHat 9.0 system and downloaded apt (and a prerequisite beecrypt), then set sources.list, and then did apt-get -s -u dist-upgrade Along the way I found some interesting discussions about mixing repos: http://lists.freshrpms.net/pipermail/rpm-list/2003-July/005174.html http://lists.freshrpms.net/pipermail/rpm-list/2003-May/004624.html Whether with debian (and derivatives) or RPM-derivatives-with-apt this issue of repo mixing while keeping safe/accurate/appropriate dependencies is, IMHO, one of the key questions with Linux at the moment. HTH, --Tom _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kent at structural-wood.com Thu Oct 30 12:58:10 2003 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] apt4rpm newbie References: <3FA148A8.2070907@structural-wood.com> <3FA1551A.6030901@info9.net> Message-ID: <3FA15F42.50402@structural-wood.com> Tom Marble wrote: > Kent Schumacher wrote: > >> At any rate, I'm trying to use apt-get on my RedHat system >> to update things, > > > Your immediate bug may simply be that you need to get the GPG > key for the repos you are adding... > (like this, but for your other repos) > rpm --import http://freshrpms.net/packages/builds/apt/RPM-GPG-KEY.freshrpms > Aah, I had seen that but run into the stumbling block that the version of rpm that apt-get states is 'already the newest version' doesn't support the --import option. I guess I will have to 'hand' upgrade my version of rpm. > I agree that auto-updating (*a la* apt) is the only way to fly. > I've been comparing the RPM flavor (follow on to RedHat) vs. > DEB flavor (original debian apt-get). I happen to prefer debian > at the moment, but I shall not open the distro war here. > > I'm currently running Fedora core 0.94 on another machine, but you > may want to consider 0.95 now or Fedora Core 1 / Cambridge > coming out next week: > http://fedora.redhat.com/ > > I started with a RedHat 9.0 system and downloaded apt (and > a prerequisite beecrypt), then set sources.list, and then did > apt-get -s -u dist-upgrade > What is a beecrypt? > Along the way I found some interesting discussions about mixing repos: > > http://lists.freshrpms.net/pipermail/rpm-list/2003-July/005174.html > http://lists.freshrpms.net/pipermail/rpm-list/2003-May/004624.html > > Whether with debian (and derivatives) or RPM-derivatives-with-apt this > issue of repo mixing while keeping safe/accurate/appropriate dependencies > is, IMHO, one of the key questions with Linux at the moment. > > HTH, > > --Tom > Interesting reading - it really looks like every resource (library, binary, server, etc...) is going to have to have a way to declare it's version, availability, and dependencies before robust generalized package management is ever going to become a reality. Thanks for your help, Kent _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dutchman_mn at charter.net Thu Oct 30 13:04:43 2003 From: dutchman_mn at charter.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] apt4rpm newbie In-Reply-To: <3FA1551A.6030901@info9.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 12:14:50 -0600 Tom Marble wrote: >I'm currently running Fedora core 0.94 on another >machine, but you >may want to consider 0.95 now or Fedora Core 1 / >Cambridge >coming out next week: > http://fedora.redhat.com/ > How is Fedora looking? I was wondering only because I crashed my RH8 earlier this week and I am looking to either install Fedora or Debian. Quick question for the Debianers out there. To do a net install of a minimum Debian system, do I need all the floppies listed (I think there is 20)? I know when I did a net install of RH 6.2 way back when, it was like a three floppy set. Thanks, Perry Hoekstra _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tmarble at info9.net Thu Oct 30 14:02:45 2003 From: tmarble at info9.net (Tom Marble) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] apt4rpm newbie In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FA16E65.50402@info9.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From list at slushpupie.com Thu Oct 30 14:12:45 2003 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] apt4rpm newbie In-Reply-To: ; from dutchman_mn@charter.net on Thu, Oct 30, 2003 at 02:04:43PM -0500 References: <3FA1551A.6030901@info9.net> Message-ID: <20031030141243.C19065@slushpupie.com> On Thu, Oct 30, 2003 at 02:04:43PM -0500, Perry Hoekstra (dutchman_mn@charter.net) wrote: > On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 12:14:50 -0600 > Quick question for the Debianers out there. To do a net > install of a minimum Debian system, do I need all the > floppies listed (I think there is 20)? I know when I did > a net install of RH 6.2 way back when, it was like a three > floppy set. All you really need is the "rescue" image, and the "root" image. The rescue image boots, the root image is your root filesystem for install. If you have a network card not apart of the install kernel, you may need some drivers, but I never ran into that (mostly common hardware). Then just select your source from the net somewhere. I have found its easier to just use a minimal CD, but it does about the same. Jay -- Jay Kline list@slushpupie.com http://www.slushpupie.com/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dante at argle.org Thu Oct 30 17:11:19 2003 From: dante at argle.org (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] httpd.conf In-Reply-To: <002e01c39e57$b26ac170$0201a8c0@brinstar> References: <002e01c39e57$b26ac170$0201a8c0@brinstar> Message-ID: <3FA19A97.5040403@argle.org> David Phillips wrote: > Troy.A Johnson writes: > >>I am not "freaking out" > > > That was not directed at you, but rather people who know little about web > servers and assume Apache is the best web server available simply because it > is the most popular. > > >>Do the same limitations apply to the Apache 2.0.x series? > > > Yes. On most popular free UNIX operating systems (Linux, FreeBSD), there is > little difference between a process and a thread. In fact, on Linux (at > least up through 2.4), threads are implemented as processes (i.e. > LinuxThreads). This is perhaps because process task switches are _already_ so optimized that there is little perfomance gain left to be had by going to a threaded model? Perhaps Apache using a task-per-connection model is _more_ scalable than a lot of other potential solutions, as well as being easier to code and debug than a threaded server? The only compelling reason I've seen for multithreaded development on Linux is it works better for GUI programs and others that need to deal with stateful processing of wildly differing IO and compute channels cleanly. Especially GUI games on SMP systems. Yumm! > > It is theoretically possible for the performance of a preemptive thread > based model to approach that of state threads model, but it doesn't work > that way in practice right now. Here are a few interesting pages: > > http://www.kegel.com/c10k.html > http://www.freebsd.org/kse/ > http://cr.yp.to/lib/npthread.html > http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/coroutines.html > http://www.monkey.org/~provos/libevent/ > After a quick looksee, I don't see how any of these really relate. Yeah, perhaps Apache, or ANY OTHER SIMILAR webserver will run out of resources with a large number of simultaneous connections, but that is not the only measure of "best". > >>I think 1.3.x may be harder to "scale" upwards than some solutions, >>but for me it more than makes up for that in flexibility (which can >>also sometimes be a downside too, I know). > > > I don't consider Apache to be any more flexible than Zeus. You can write > modules for Apache and ISAPI filters for Zeus. There are nice features > unique to both pieces of software, obviously, but Apache certainly does not > have a monopoly on flexibility. > > >>But when you say "not >>scalable", I ask where the hard chalk line is drawn between >>the worlds of "scalable" and "not so". > > > I meant it in the sense of O(1) versus O(n). > Then you are talking out your ass. I disbelieve in this mythical O(1) webserver of yours. I even doubt you can get O(logn). > >>A nitpick, maybe, and it is >>simply your opinion, sure, but my opinion is that many folks find >>the old and crusty Apache 1.3.x multiprocess model "scalable >>enough". > > > As I said, for most people, Apache is quite adequate. > For _most_ people, Apache is so far beyond what they need it is unbelievable. The number of sites that are likely to run into Apache-specific scaling problems probably number in the dozens. Sites that do dynamic script-generated content run into scaling problems (/. for instance), but these are often fixed by improving the scripts or backend databases. cdrom.com is a _major_ download site serving up multi-megabyte files by the hundreds to the whole world. Of _course_ they would need the most scalable solution they can get. No fat on that site. > The original poster was having configuration difficulties. I gave him a > recommendation based on years of experience working with web servers. Two > people disagreed with that suggestion based on documentation that was likely > written years ago, which addresses concerns that are not relevant to at > least 99% of people running Apache, and certainly not relevant to the > original poster. Hence my response about Apache's performance. > Which is at least as irrelevant, if not more so. > Summary: If you are running CGI scripts on a process-per-connection web > server, a few cached OS calls are the least of your performance worries. > And your choice of webserver is also the least of your worries. Really. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rware at interplastic.com Thu Oct 30 17:23:13 2003 From: rware at interplastic.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] httpd.conf Message-ID: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B2E7@ipserver2.interplastic.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Daniel Taylor [mailto:dante@argle.org] > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 5:11 PM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] httpd.conf > > > > > David Phillips wrote: > > Troy.A Johnson writes: > > > >>I am not "freaking out" > > > > > > That was not directed at you, but rather people who know > little about web > > servers and assume Apache is the best web server available > simply because it > > is the most popular. > > > > > >>Do the same limitations apply to the Apache 2.0.x series? > > > > > > Yes. On most popular free UNIX operating systems (Linux, > FreeBSD), there is > > little difference between a process and a thread. In fact, > on Linux (at > > least up through 2.4), threads are implemented as processes (i.e. > > LinuxThreads). > > This is perhaps because process task switches are _already_ > so optimized > that there is little perfomance gain left to be had by going to a > threaded model? Perhaps Apache using a task-per-connection model is > _more_ scalable than a lot of other potential solutions, as well as > being easier to code and debug than a threaded server? This is a year or so old, but I thought it was a good read http://lists.free.net.ph/pipermail/php/2002-June/000028.html _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From waynej at dccmn.com Thu Oct 30 18:40:46 2003 From: waynej at dccmn.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Can't telnet to 675 router In-Reply-To: References: <1067283800.9472.150.camel@unixws1> <3F9DA360.5090201@visi.com> <3F9DACAC.3B8EA45B@ppdonline.com> Message-ID: <1396.192.1.1.23.1067560846.squirrel@dccmn.com> Is it in Bridge mode? David Dyer-Bennet said: > "David Dyer-Bennet" writes: > >> "Ben Bargabus" writes: >> >> > When you power down, leave it unplugged for a minute or two. >> Sometimes they'll have enough residual energy that they don't >> "forget" everything if you just pull the power and put it right back >> on. >> >> I suppose I'll have to give it a try. I'm kinda afraid to go that >> deep, since it's working now for everything else. If I reboot it who >> knows what will happen? >> >> It's useful to know that people feel the telnet does tend to get >> locked up in extended runs. That's hopeful, anyway. > > Having now power-cycled it -- no change. It came back up fine, except I > still can't telnet in. Bah, humbug. Okay, I guess I'll have to look > into it with the serial cable sometime when I can haul a laptop over > near it. > -- > David Dyer-Bennet, , > RKBA: > Photos: Snapshots: > Dragaera/Steven Brust: > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Thu Oct 30 20:09:37 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Common Users? In-Reply-To: References: <20031029215252.50d0d0a0.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20031030200937.2276e80a.sfertch@real-time.com> On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 23:21:50 -0600 (CST) Munir Nassar wrote: > On Wed, 29 Oct 2003, Shawn wrote: > > > Sorry, I'm just anal about my systems and not letting people on > > them. Not because I'm hiding things, but because I don't want my > > configs messed up. > > If your configs are so easily broken, maybe you are doing something > wrong. > By configs, I wasn't referring to configuration files. I meant the way the system is configured in terms of desktop settings, layout, etc... Windows on the other hand, anyone can use and break it. I'm not doing anything wrong, I know how to set a box up. Nate wrote: >If you only let them on the Linux box, and create an account especially for them, is it really so bad? What's the worse they can do? :) > >Windows, on the other hand... let's not go there. Exactly, Nate. But, he was talking about how she likes to "move from box to box." Thus why I asked what I did. Why does she? If a system was setup specifically for guest users, such as what I'm going to be doing in terms of LTSP, then you don't have to worry about it. That's it, the only system she and other guests will ever be on. No muss, no fuss. If there is, sorry you get nothing! As I stated: "I anal about my systems." -- Shawn "Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear -- not absence of fear." -Mark Twain Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dd-b at dd-b.net Thu Oct 30 20:46:42 2003 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Can't telnet to 675 router In-Reply-To: Wayne Johnson's message <1396.192.1.1.23.1067560846.squirrel@dccmn.com> of 30 October 2003 References: <1067283800.9472.150.camel@unixws1> <3F9DA360.5090201@visi.com> <3F9DACAC.3B8EA45B@ppdonline.com> <1396.192.1.1.23.1067560846.squirrel@dccmn.com> Message-ID: <16289.52498.110488.322292@gw.dd-b.net> Wayne Johnson writes on 30 October 2003 at 18:40:46 -0600 > Is it in Bridge mode? Nope, ppp mode. -- David Dyer-Bennet, , RKBA: Photos: Snapshots: Dragaera/Steven Brust: _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Thu Oct 30 23:48:57 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] httpd.conf References: <002e01c39e57$b26ac170$0201a8c0@brinstar> <3FA19A97.5040403@argle.org> Message-ID: <003d01c39f72$ad07e610$0201a8c0@brinstar> Daniel Taylor writes: > This is perhaps because process task switches are _already_ so > optimized > that there is little perfomance gain left to be had by going to a > threaded model? Perhaps Apache using a task-per-connection model is > _more_ scalable than a lot of other potential solutions, as well as > being easier to code and debug than a threaded server? You're missing the point entirely. In terms of scalability, there is little difference between a process and a thread. Both provide you with O(n) versus O(1). Note that I'm talking about preemptive threads here (at the operating system level). There are a variety of ways to implement non preemptive threads, including state machines and stack modifying coroutines. > The only compelling reason I've seen for multithreaded development on > Linux is it works better for GUI programs and others that need to deal > with stateful processing of wildly differing IO and compute channels > cleanly. Especially GUI games on SMP systems. Yumm! Agreed. I have no problem with using threads when it makes the job easier. Having a separate thread perform work in a GUI application is quite natural. Writing state machines for everything is rarely worthwhile. > After a quick looksee, I don't see how any of these really relate. > Yeah, perhaps Apache, or ANY OTHER SIMILAR webserver will run out of > resources > with a large number of simultaneous connections, but that is not the > only measure of "best". You need to read "The C10K problem" again. Apache style web servers are artificially limited because an operating system can only handle so many processes. Non blocking web servers do not have this limitation. > Then you are talking out your ass. I disbelieve in this mythical O(1) > webserver of yours. I even doubt you can get O(logn). Apache requires 15 processes to handle 15 connections and 500 processes to handle 500 connections. thttpd needs one process to handle 15 or 500 connections. > For _most_ people, Apache is so far beyond what they need it is > unbelievable. Yes. I said that already. Remember, this whole thing started because people thought using .htaccess files was a bad idea for "performance" reasons. (That doesn't mean it's totally irrelevant to everyone. I currently have three boxes on a 300mbit pipe each handling around 1000 concurrent connections. In fact, they have .htaccess support enabled and that's certainly not the bottleneck.) -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From joel at joelschneider.net Fri Oct 31 01:33:36 2003 From: joel at joelschneider.net (Joel Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] httpd.conf In-Reply-To: <000b01c39de1$5e67cfd0$0201a8c0@brinstar>; from david@acz.org on Tue, Oct 28, 2003 at 11:56:17PM -0600 References: <012c01c39da8$1a2980e0$590215ac@DELL2><005d01c39dcb$bf494d80$0201a8c0@brinstar> <20031029035827.GA20335@slushpupie.com> <000b01c39de1$5e67cfd0$0201a8c0@brinstar> Message-ID: <20031031013336.C15094@joelschneider.net> On Tue, Oct 28, 2003 at 11:56:17PM -0600, David Phillips wrote: > If performance is that critical, you shouldn't be using Apache. Apache (and Zeus) enthusiasts may find this recent press release by Zeus Technology to be of interest: http://www.zeus.com/news/articles/030707-001/ "Zeus Technology, the world's leading internet infrastructure software vendor today announced a new benchmark for its Zeus Load Balancer product that shows it accelerates Apache web server delivery by a factor of a hundred." They say the Zeus Load Balancer implements a buffering system that enables Apache to service page requests without having to wait for network latency. This makes it possible for Apache to release system resources immediately instead of keeping them open for the duration of a (typically slow) internet connection, thereby improving performance. -- Joel Schneider joel@joelschneider.net Linux makes computing fun again. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From joel at joelschneider.net Fri Oct 31 01:33:36 2003 From: joel at joelschneider.net (Joel Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] httpd.conf In-Reply-To: <000b01c39de1$5e67cfd0$0201a8c0@brinstar>; from david@acz.org on Tue, Oct 28, 2003 at 11:56:17PM -0600 References: <012c01c39da8$1a2980e0$590215ac@DELL2><005d01c39dcb$bf494d80$0201a8c0@brinstar> <20031029035827.GA20335@slushpupie.com> <000b01c39de1$5e67cfd0$0201a8c0@brinstar> Message-ID: <20031031013336.C15094@joelschneider.net> On Tue, Oct 28, 2003 at 11:56:17PM -0600, David Phillips wrote: > If performance is that critical, you shouldn't be using Apache. Apache (and Zeus) enthusiasts may find this recent press release by Zeus Technology to be of interest: http://www.zeus.com/news/articles/030707-001/ "Zeus Technology, the world's leading internet infrastructure software vendor today announced a new benchmark for its Zeus Load Balancer product that shows it accelerates Apache web server delivery by a factor of a hundred." They say the Zeus Load Balancer implements a buffering system that enables Apache to service page requests without having to wait for network latency. This makes it possible for Apache to release system resources immediately instead of keeping them open for the duration of a (typically slow) internet connection, thereby improving performance. -- Joel Schneider joel@joelschneider.net Linux makes computing fun again. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Thu Oct 30 23:48:57 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] httpd.conf References: <002e01c39e57$b26ac170$0201a8c0@brinstar> <3FA19A97.5040403@argle.org> Message-ID: <003d01c39f72$ad07e610$0201a8c0@brinstar> Daniel Taylor writes: > This is perhaps because process task switches are _already_ so > optimized > that there is little perfomance gain left to be had by going to a > threaded model? Perhaps Apache using a task-per-connection model is > _more_ scalable than a lot of other potential solutions, as well as > being easier to code and debug than a threaded server? You're missing the point entirely. In terms of scalability, there is little difference between a process and a thread. Both provide you with O(n) versus O(1). Note that I'm talking about preemptive threads here (at the operating system level). There are a variety of ways to implement non preemptive threads, including state machines and stack modifying coroutines. > The only compelling reason I've seen for multithreaded development on > Linux is it works better for GUI programs and others that need to deal > with stateful processing of wildly differing IO and compute channels > cleanly. Especially GUI games on SMP systems. Yumm! Agreed. I have no problem with using threads when it makes the job easier. Having a separate thread perform work in a GUI application is quite natural. Writing state machines for everything is rarely worthwhile. > After a quick looksee, I don't see how any of these really relate. > Yeah, perhaps Apache, or ANY OTHER SIMILAR webserver will run out of > resources > with a large number of simultaneous connections, but that is not the > only measure of "best". You need to read "The C10K problem" again. Apache style web servers are artificially limited because an operating system can only handle so many processes. Non blocking web servers do not have this limitation. > Then you are talking out your ass. I disbelieve in this mythical O(1) > webserver of yours. I even doubt you can get O(logn). Apache requires 15 processes to handle 15 connections and 500 processes to handle 500 connections. thttpd needs one process to handle 15 or 500 connections. > For _most_ people, Apache is so far beyond what they need it is > unbelievable. Yes. I said that already. Remember, this whole thing started because people thought using .htaccess files was a bad idea for "performance" reasons. (That doesn't mean it's totally irrelevant to everyone. I currently have three boxes on a 300mbit pipe each handling around 1000 concurrent connections. In fact, they have .htaccess support enabled and that's certainly not the bottleneck.) -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From joel at joelschneider.net Fri Oct 31 01:33:36 2003 From: joel at joelschneider.net (Joel Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] httpd.conf In-Reply-To: <000b01c39de1$5e67cfd0$0201a8c0@brinstar>; from david@acz.org on Tue, Oct 28, 2003 at 11:56:17PM -0600 References: <012c01c39da8$1a2980e0$590215ac@DELL2><005d01c39dcb$bf494d80$0201a8c0@brinstar> <20031029035827.GA20335@slushpupie.com> <000b01c39de1$5e67cfd0$0201a8c0@brinstar> Message-ID: <20031031013336.C15094@joelschneider.net> On Tue, Oct 28, 2003 at 11:56:17PM -0600, David Phillips wrote: > If performance is that critical, you shouldn't be using Apache. Apache (and Zeus) enthusiasts may find this recent press release by Zeus Technology to be of interest: http://www.zeus.com/news/articles/030707-001/ "Zeus Technology, the world's leading internet infrastructure software vendor today announced a new benchmark for its Zeus Load Balancer product that shows it accelerates Apache web server delivery by a factor of a hundred." They say the Zeus Load Balancer implements a buffering system that enables Apache to service page requests without having to wait for network latency. This makes it possible for Apache to release system resources immediately instead of keeping them open for the duration of a (typically slow) internet connection, thereby improving performance. -- Joel Schneider joel@joelschneider.net Linux makes computing fun again. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Thu Oct 30 23:48:57 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] httpd.conf References: <002e01c39e57$b26ac170$0201a8c0@brinstar> <3FA19A97.5040403@argle.org> Message-ID: <003d01c39f72$ad07e610$0201a8c0@brinstar> Daniel Taylor writes: > This is perhaps because process task switches are _already_ so > optimized > that there is little perfomance gain left to be had by going to a > threaded model? Perhaps Apache using a task-per-connection model is > _more_ scalable than a lot of other potential solutions, as well as > being easier to code and debug than a threaded server? You're missing the point entirely. In terms of scalability, there is little difference between a process and a thread. Both provide you with O(n) versus O(1). Note that I'm talking about preemptive threads here (at the operating system level). There are a variety of ways to implement non preemptive threads, including state machines and stack modifying coroutines. > The only compelling reason I've seen for multithreaded development on > Linux is it works better for GUI programs and others that need to deal > with stateful processing of wildly differing IO and compute channels > cleanly. Especially GUI games on SMP systems. Yumm! Agreed. I have no problem with using threads when it makes the job easier. Having a separate thread perform work in a GUI application is quite natural. Writing state machines for everything is rarely worthwhile. > After a quick looksee, I don't see how any of these really relate. > Yeah, perhaps Apache, or ANY OTHER SIMILAR webserver will run out of > resources > with a large number of simultaneous connections, but that is not the > only measure of "best". You need to read "The C10K problem" again. Apache style web servers are artificially limited because an operating system can only handle so many processes. Non blocking web servers do not have this limitation. > Then you are talking out your ass. I disbelieve in this mythical O(1) > webserver of yours. I even doubt you can get O(logn). Apache requires 15 processes to handle 15 connections and 500 processes to handle 500 connections. thttpd needs one process to handle 15 or 500 connections. > For _most_ people, Apache is so far beyond what they need it is > unbelievable. Yes. I said that already. Remember, this whole thing started because people thought using .htaccess files was a bad idea for "performance" reasons. (That doesn't mean it's totally irrelevant to everyone. I currently have three boxes on a 300mbit pipe each handling around 1000 concurrent connections. In fact, they have .htaccess support enabled and that's certainly not the bottleneck.) -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erik at andersonfam.org Fri Oct 31 12:54:11 2003 From: erik at andersonfam.org (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] network error msg RH80 Message-ID: <3FA2AFD3.1020401@andersonfam.org> I have a RH80 server that I'm getting ready to move my company's website over to. I was doing a large ftp transfer from it, and started seeing the following message on the console: ip_conntrack: table full, dropping packet. This message was repeated probably 15 times... After googling a bit, I found that upping the value of /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_conntrack_max might help. Mine's currently set to 2048. Should I just double it? Triple? Thanks! -Erik _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dante at argle.org Fri Oct 31 14:23:01 2003 From: dante at argle.org (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] httpd.conf In-Reply-To: <003d01c39f72$ad07e610$0201a8c0@brinstar> References: <002e01c39e57$b26ac170$0201a8c0@brinstar> <3FA19A97.5040403@argle.org> <003d01c39f72$ad07e610$0201a8c0@brinstar> Message-ID: <3FA2C4A5.5010009@argle.org> David Phillips wrote: > Daniel Taylor writes: > >>This is perhaps because process task switches are _already_ so >>optimized >>that there is little perfomance gain left to be had by going to a >>threaded model? Perhaps Apache using a task-per-connection model is >>_more_ scalable than a lot of other potential solutions, as well as >>being easier to code and debug than a threaded server? > > > You're missing the point entirely. In terms of scalability, there is little > difference between a process and a thread. Both provide you with O(n) > versus O(1). True, but to bring up one of your comments below, even being able to handle N connections on a single process doesn't give you O(1), it just gives you O(N) with a much smaller constant. You still have the overhead involved with keeping track of each connection, and the (potentially much smaller) overhead of switching between them. Hence my disbelief. Yeah, I am awfully pedantic when talking about algorithm complexity. Too much embedded programming and hanging out with mathematicians. > > Note that I'm talking about preemptive threads here (at the operating system > level). There are a variety of ways to implement non preemptive threads, > including state machines and stack modifying coroutines. > Which can give you better scalability for prticular problem sets, at the expense of flexibility and/or clarity of code. > > You need to read "The C10K problem" again. Apache style web servers are > artificially limited because an operating system can only handle so many > processes. Non blocking web servers do not have this limitation. > Linux does have trouble with very large numbers of processes, true. The threaded servers get past the process count limit pretty effectively IIRC, leaving only the resource usage. > >>Then you are talking out your ass. I disbelieve in this mythical O(1) >>webserver of yours. I even doubt you can get O(logn). > > > Apache requires 15 processes to handle 15 connections and 500 processes to > handle 500 connections. thttpd needs one process to handle 15 or 500 > connections. O(1) on process count does not mean O(1) on resource (RAM/CPU) utilization. thttpd will handle much more static traffic with less than apache, but you can still run it out. So not O(1). OTOH, I have used thttpd for pure static sites before, and it is great if you need a good, basic web server for static content. > > >>For _most_ people, Apache is so far beyond what they need it is >>unbelievable. > > > Yes. I said that already. Remember, this whole thing started because > people thought using .htaccess files was a bad idea for "performance" > reasons. > > (That doesn't mean it's totally irrelevant to everyone. I currently have > three boxes on a 300mbit pipe each handling around 1000 concurrent > connections. In fact, they have .htaccess support enabled and that's > certainly not the bottleneck.) > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dante at argle.org Fri Oct 31 14:28:52 2003 From: dante at argle.org (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] httpd.conf In-Reply-To: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B2E7@ipserver2.interplastic.com> References: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B2E7@ipserver2.interplastic.com> Message-ID: <3FA2C604.5070404@argle.org> Interesting link. I'm still wondering if there isn't more performance that can be shaken out of Linux by proper analytical design. Ryan Ware wrote: > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Daniel Taylor [mailto:dante@argle.org] >>Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 5:11 PM >>To: TCLUG Mailing List >>Subject: Re: [TCLUG] httpd.conf >> >> >> >> >>David Phillips wrote: >> >>>Troy.A Johnson writes: >>> >>> >>>>I am not "freaking out" >>> >>> >>>That was not directed at you, but rather people who know >> >>little about web >> >>>servers and assume Apache is the best web server available >> >>simply because it >> >>>is the most popular. >>> >>> >>> >>>>Do the same limitations apply to the Apache 2.0.x series? >>> >>> >>>Yes. On most popular free UNIX operating systems (Linux, >> >>FreeBSD), there is >> >>>little difference between a process and a thread. In fact, >> >>on Linux (at >> >>>least up through 2.4), threads are implemented as processes (i.e. >>>LinuxThreads). >> >>This is perhaps because process task switches are _already_ >>so optimized >>that there is little perfomance gain left to be had by going to a >>threaded model? Perhaps Apache using a task-per-connection model is >>_more_ scalable than a lot of other potential solutions, as well as >>being easier to code and debug than a threaded server? > > > This is a year or so old, but I thought it was a good read > > http://lists.free.net.ph/pipermail/php/2002-June/000028.html > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Fri Oct 31 19:13:41 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (webmaster@mn-linux.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] A new classified ad at TCLUG Classifieds Message-ID: <200311010113.hA11Dfi24713@crusader.real-time.com> A new TCLUG classified ad at was placed Fri Oct 31 19:13:41 2003. Name: Matt Category: computersell Subject: 19 Ad: $125 or best offer. Excellent condition, no problems. Classic cream color. 17.75 inches viewable. Feel free to inspect it before purchasing. To view this and other ads at TCLUG Classifieds, please visit: http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/classifieds.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Fri Oct 31 23:04:53 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Interesting article Message-ID: <3FA33EF5.2090608@comcast.net> http://www.ofb.biz/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=270 Funny thing is, I find myself acting like a "pompus guru" sometimes, but not with Linux, I'm still something of a newbie there. I like the thought that went into writing this article. -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From shulstad at frontiernet.net Fri Oct 31 13:36:24 2003 From: shulstad at frontiernet.net (John & Jan Schulstad) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Newbie Followup Message-ID: <005c01c39fe6$45d4e320$41f43243@ComputerRoom> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Fri Oct 31 13:27:16 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] apt4rpm newbie In-Reply-To: <20031030141243.C19065@slushpupie.com> References: <3FA1551A.6030901@info9.net> <20031030141243.C19065@slushpupie.com> Message-ID: <20031031192716.GH20315@fandre.com> On Thu, 30 Oct 2003, Jay Kline wrote: > On Thu, Oct 30, 2003 at 02:04:43PM -0500, Perry Hoekstra (dutchman_mn@charter.net) wrote: > > On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 12:14:50 -0600 > > Quick question for the Debianers out there. To do a net > > install of a minimum Debian system, do I need all the > > floppies listed (I think there is 20)? I know when I did > > a net install of RH 6.2 way back when, it was like a three > > floppy set. > > All you really need is the "rescue" image, and the "root" image. The rescue > image boots, the root image is your root filesystem for install. If you have > a network card not apart of the install kernel, you may need some drivers, but > I never ran into that (mostly common hardware). Then just select your source > from the net somewhere. I have found its easier to just use a minimal CD, but > it does about the same. > My preferred method of late is the XFS boot iso (which also supports reiserfs): http://people.debian.org/~blade/XFS-Install/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Fri Oct 31 09:26:44 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] No November TCLUG meeting Message-ID: <20031031152644.GB20315@fandre.com> Doh! I totally spaced out and forgot that tomorrow is the first Saturday of the month. Because of Halloween we won't be having a meeting this month. I'll try and get on the ball for next month and get something planned. If you have any ideas of suggestions, let me know. -- Clay _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Fri Oct 31 15:31:37 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Meeting cancellation message??? Message-ID: <20031031213136.GI20315@fandre.com> Hey, did my meeting cancellation message make it to the list? I never saw it. If not, tomorrow's meeting is cancelled. -- Clay _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list