On Thu, 22 Feb 2007, Josh Paetzel wrote: > You can 'whatever' to your heart's content, but the real-world facts are > this: linux is extremely popular with the embedded hardware community, > and for the most part source code for embedded devices running linux is > not available to the end-users. I'm sure this violation of the 'spirit > of the GPL' is really frustrating, but I'm talking about the way things > are, not the way you'd like them to be. (and yes, in case you haven't > guessed, I'm particularly fond of the BSDL) Josh - I'm not contesting what is being done. I don't know anything about that and you have no references to any studies so I still know nothing about it. My only point is that the GPL seems to cover uses of GPL'd software within the hardware of any kind of device. I don't see how it can be OK to encode the software into a device and then avoid the GPL. You were saying that the GPL does not apply to such devices and I am saying that you are mistaken. It doesn't matter how many people who know who make devices -- that is completely irrelevant to how the GPL should be interpretted. If you can't give me any reference information, I can't read your messages because they aren't informative. > I disagree strongly with the suggestion that a microwave is a piece of > software, and it seems that the industry is of the same opinion. Of course, no one said that a microwave is a piece of software (or even that a microwave oven is a piece of software), but we did say that if it is running Linux inside, and it is being sold, then software is being copied and distributed and the GPL applies to that use of the software. > I take the stance that I don't have to provide web-links because I think > we're all too familiar of cases of companies modifing GPL software, > using it in their proprietary devices, selling it, not distributing the > source code, and nothing happening to them (ala cisco) I could provide > example after example of this if I wanted to, but I don't feel it's my > responsibility to spoon-feed you information on how the real-world > works. You have google, and provided you're any good at using it you > can find out the truth for yourself. Another problem with your thinking: Even if you are correct, it doesn't tell me what the proper interpretation of the GPL is. If it is illegal to dance on Sundays, but people dance on Sundays and are never arrested for it, does that mean that it is not illegal to dance on Sundays? There is a difference between laws and enforcement of laws and you don't seem to understand that. Mike