The news article on municipal wireless indicates its either a disaster or a tax for trying to do business in those communities because a visitor can't just connect without subscribing. I don't like to see the passing of free wireless hotspots. Check the news: bad stuff is what actually happens. Cities Struggle With Wireless Internet By ANICK JESDANUN (AP Internet Writer) From Associated Press May 22, 2007 12:42 AM EDT http://my.earthlink.net/article/tec?guid=20070521/46526ac0_3ca6_15526200 70522-175081373&error=2 This intrusive rant below should have gone to the list. Nice ideas, but contrary to the major news of what usually happens. -----Original Message----- From: Justin Krejci [mailto:jus at krytosvirus.com] Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 10:24 PM Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Linux friendly DSL or Cable Sorry for the late reply, been extremely busy lately. I just want to clarify a couple of your misconceptions about this muni wifi network. Since I read thru the whole thread already and it seems like the thread is at an end and also far away from the original posters question, I will just reply to you directly, though it seems you may not like that practice. On Monday 07 May 2007 22:01, Chuck Cole wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Justin Krejci > > > > > Since I live in Minneapolis, I'm watching the wireless rollout with > > > more than a little interest.... > > > > ... People now a days use PPP, Ethernet, or > > some other > > very standard protocol. If not, it is usually some CPE > > hardware that does > > all of the last mile talk then has an Ethernet handoff. > > Isn't municipal wireless using a secured protocol and/or spectrum > trick(s) that require the subscriber to have special "demod gear" to get > to an ethernet or 802.11g/b connection for any user(s)?? The subscriber > still must connect to their "modem" and do wired or wireless in the > home. No, it is standard wifi you can connect with your laptop (or desktop) wifi card. The customer CPE is for increased signal reception, and eventually redistribute wifi directly inside the home if you choose. > > > The wireless is very exciting and hopefully more of the metro > > area will participate making a huge connected network. > > Does this mean anything more than having more people pay for > higher-priced, proprietary modems in order to have their home connected > to the internet? I doubt that there's any bandwidth ceiling advantage > over fiber-to-the-home > It is not proprietary. I also imply that connecting the metro up with other muni wifi networks could make it be cool and possibly be transparent to the end user for migrating from one to the other. Bandwidth in wifi vs fiber? Well yeah fiber wins out but it is not as portable. I could imagine wifi tech getting so efficient that using fiber would become obsolete for short haul transmissions (short haul meaning in the context of a muni wifi network backbone). Maybe I am just dreaming but if people don't try things out cool things definitely will not happen. > > Couple that with mobile VPNs > > and I think it will make a pretty sweet network. > > Are you sure that mobile VPNs will be supported by municipal wireless > ISPs in the near term? I'd expect municipal service contracts to differ > from neighboring cities, and that may be a cause for a big delay > (decades?) in having mobile options for that new service. Cell carrier > services (plue 911 type service carriers) are already capable of > supporting municipal needs, so the justification to scrap equipment and > change to a new scheme may be hard to achieve. > What does ISPs, network medium, etc have to do with mobile vpns? What applications you run over your internet connections are not usually a matter of concern for the ISPs (unless you are a big brother conspiracy theorist). Also, later in the thread you commented about geographically specific subscriptions. You also refer to Chaska as an example. I am not familiar with details on the Chaska wifi so it may be ignorance on my part but with the minneapolis one there is a single login/auth system for the entire network. You login while sitting at home, and roam around town/downtown you do not need re-auth. Which ties into my comment about spreading out to other muni wifi systems, even if not US Internet based they could still be made to be compatible auth system so as not to require re-authenticating when moving from one network to the other. This is similar in principle to how national dial-up works. You don't really think Earthlink has 30,000 (or whatever the number is) phone numbers around the country? They have deals with companies like Qwest, AT&T, etc to use their numbers and when the end user authenticates with their username there is usually a prefix that signifies to the phone companies auth system (radius typically) to send the auth to your ISP's auth system. You can have multiple ISPs using the same numbers, and one user using multiple phone numbers around the country under the same ISP account transparently (except for having to select a different number) to the end user. As for the impact on free wifi hotspots, they might stick around for a while but you are right, there is a good chance they might go away. Is it really that bad? Are you worried about it that much? You can purchase a short term subscription like 1 day or 1 week subscription. Some facilities will be able to hand out free vouchers good for 1 day or 3 days or whatever if they have an event. Additionally there will be free areas on the network in any case. Do you not think large scale wifi is inevitable? I am sure in 5-10 years people will not even think about the archaic pre-wifi days and wifi will be so much more honed and refined of a technology it will be as common place as ethernet switches are now. There is a technology refresh requirement in the contract so a complete hardware upgrade is required after a certain number of years so as to be compatible with the latest standards and trends, which will probably include large bandwidth increases in the environment as tech gets better.