RE: CF: Race, Reputation and other suggestions

[dragonm <dragonm@leech.org>]

-----Original Message-----
From: David Andrew Michael Noelle
To: crossfire@ifi.uio.no
Sent: 10/23/99 5:57 AM
Subject: Re: CF: Race, Reputation and other suggestions

> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:17:11 +1000
> From: John Cater <john_cater@gitaylor.eng.monash.edu.au>
> 
> I for one am in favour of each character being chosen by RACE alone.
> 
> eg. Human, Fireborn, whatever...
> 
> Then, as in life, you can choose the career and get skills for your
> character by training and adventuring.
> 
> Guilds are a good idea methinks.  I wouldn't mind if in some
> 'graduation ceremony' or whatever the face of the character was
> changed when a new skill was gained. (E.g. A wizard when legerdomain
> is mastered)

We seem to have reached a consensus on seperating race and "class".
So, what are our new races and classes?  We currently have:
barbarian, cleric, dwarf, elf, fireborn, halfling, human, mage,
monk, ninja, half-orc, priest, quetzalcoatl, swashbuckler, thief,
viking, warrior, wizard, and wraith.  As I see it, that breaks down
into:

Races: human, barbarian, viking, dwarf, elf, fireborn, halfling,
half-orc, quetzalcoatl, and wraith.  I seem to recall some interest in
adding ogre to that list also.  And various other monsters, which
needs to be worked out more.  I suggest we should decide on a base set
of races to start with, and add the "monster" races later.

-----Begin Response-----
You do indeed remember some interest in adding ogre.  <raises a paw>
Of that list, I think human/barbarian/viking are redundant.  Barbarians and
vikings aren't human?  Seems kind of silly.  I suppose the theory is that
barbarians and vikings are considerably larger and stronger than a run of
the mill human, so I can put up with that distinction.  But one or the
other, barbarian or viking, needs to go.  I'd say viking is just a barbarian
with a horned helmet, so that's the candidate for elimination.

Of new races, and specifically "monster" races, I say add ogre and troll, at
least, and maybe orc.  Those are the really classic races that are missing,
and they're humanoid, so they present fewer difficulties in implementation.
One other common "race" is half-elf, which we might want to consider as
well.
----------

Classes: cleric, priest, mage, wizard, monk, thief, ninja, warrior,
and swashbuckler.  Are we going to break those down into more basic
classes and allow multiple or mixed classes?  Warrior/Wizard,
Warrior/Thief, Priest/Warrior, etc..  Or are we just going to keep
each combination as a seperate class?  Does that mean each different
class and each combination class needs its own guild?

-----Begin Response-----
Combination classes as separate classes is ridiculous, if only because of
the guild problem.  There are entirely too many combinations available just
from that proposed set of classes, neglecting the possible addition of
others.  More below.
----------

If we have multiple classes, how do we make a Fighter/Mage half
Fighter and half Mage rather than both Fighter and Mage?  Experience
is already divided by experience category, so Fighter, Mage, Priest,
and Thief experience are all seperate and players have a seperate
level in each.  The problem with multiple classes is keeping players
from joining all of them to learn all the skills.  Reduce experience
gain for each additional class?  Minimum level to join another class?
The best solution is probably to have a seperate class for each
combination and allow only one class (at a time?)

-----Begin Response-----
There's always the classic solution of allowing only two classes, to prevent
that "learn all skills" problem.  I think our first cut at this should allow
only one class, and that class is from the list above -- no combinations.
Once we get that figured out, go on to experimenting with combinations.  As
I said above, creating classes out of combinations of classes makes our
already significant infrastructure problem considerably worse.  A guild for
every possible combination?  Ick.
----------

What about characters who haven't chosen a class yet?  They don't have
any starting equipment, but they should have some starting skills, in
case they manage to get into a fight on the way to the guild.  The
skills that all players have by default should already be there.  I
think that's find traps and disarm traps.  There's no melee skill that
all players have, but the starting melee skill can be determined by
race.  Flame touch for fireborn, claw for quetzlcouatl, and melee
weapons and/or punching for everyone else.

-----Begin Response-----
I say give minimum basic starting equipment to all races that use equipment.
Either that or make it possible to acquire that equipment reasonably safely
by going into Newbie House and punching a monster to death.  I don't think
we should make it impossible to begin classless.  Merely difficult.  Guild
membership should not be mandatory.  Guilds typically have annual membership
dues, among other disadvantages, like a ranking system and superiors who
want to tell you what to do.  I think it should be possible to strike out on
your own and ultimately acquire a class on your own based on what skills you
have been exercising while venturing in the wild.  It should even be
possible to acquire the Priest, Monk, and Cleric classes on your own,
independent of any established temples, since there are alters in the wild.
This option enhances replayability, providing an equivalent to the Hard
skill level of arcade games, where playing as a guild member is the Normal
skill level.  Players who complete ever quest and every map can go back and
try it without the advantages (and slight disadvantages) of guild
membership.

DM

P.S. To All: US West claimed to have dispatched the last technician to
complete installation of my ISDN line at home as of yesterday morning.
Yesterday evening, it still didn't work.  So I continue to have no access
from home, and so I'm left to contributing nothing but sound and fury here.
I WILL, however, get my ISDN installed and begin contributing code again, if
I have to take US West's CEO hostage to do it...
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