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Re: Making Classes more distinct (Re: CF: towards 1.0)


I wrote:
> How about considering the death stat loss as a variety of depletion.
> That is, players can recover stats by potion of restoration(which
> exist in stores), but gain stats only by stat potions.

Rupert G. Goldie wrote:
> Death is supposed to be a penalty, not just an inconvenience. If players
> die too many times they should start again. When I played with multiple
> players we had permanent death. If you died, a friend would try to clear
> the area so you could run back with a new character and pick up all
> the items that were left. A level one character with decent equipment can
> regain experience reasonably quickly.

I found that I've mistaken.
Yes, the "inconvenience" never will make the game more fun.
I've remembered that I love severe game in natural.
(Some of pupland maps show my character :-)
So I agree with your idea except death stat loss.
I think it is very difficult to decide whether death stat loss or not.

Scott Wedel wrote:
> I think the problem is deeper than just the rarity of stat
> potions.  I think the problem is that permanent stat potions
> EXIST.  If they exist then adjusting the supply simply
> adjusts the time needed to adjust all stats to the max which
> results in the almighty character.

> I think the only effective way to make starting class relevant
> for the entire life of the character is to remove stat potions
> from the game as well as no longer reduce a stat for each death.
> Currently recovering a stat reduced by death isn't that hard so
> removing it as part of the effect of dying isn't that important.

If the rarity causes the "inconvinience" of recovering/gaining stat,
then I think all permanent stat potions should be eliminated.
For example, 
if permanent stat potions will be generated with the same
probability as "ring of Elrond", 
then I'll go to and from where potions will be generated with high
probability. 
This situation means the "inconvinience".

But what happens in the case of "ring of Ruling"?
I don't guess what you do, but I won't visit maps in order to search
the potions.

("ring of Ruling" has "difficulty" flag, so it is remarkably rare.
 "ring of Elrond" don't have that flag... Why???
 BTW, I feel that it is necessary to adjust "difficulty" flag of
 all maps and artifacts.)


> The stat potions in maps would instead be of limited duration
> (say 20 minutes) and a character could only be on one stat
> potion at a time.  Thus allowing some benefit, but preventing a
> player from continually consuming lots of potions in order to
> be almighty whenever the need arises.

> I suppose at every 7 or so level a character could have a random
> stat increased by one so that a level 70ish char could be looking
> forward to getting almighty, but such a char probably should be
> that way.  The level 10-25 almighty char is really obnoxious.

I agree that almighty is allowed for high-level-"lone wolves". :-)
But I think that almighty is not fit with party play 
because almighty player won't feel the necessity of party play.
(Recently Mr. Okuda wrote the relationship between almighty and party
play in this ML.)

I collected my suggestion...

	o permanent stat potions should be much rarer (with difficulty
	  flag) or should be eliminated. 
	  These potion shouldn't be generated at shops.

	o (I don't decide my opinion about death stat loss, So)
	  how about to make new flag(in config.h) for death stat loss?
	  i.e. GM decide death stat loss or not. 

	o make new flag(in config.h) for the random stat increase.
	  GM should select one of two playbalance(for party play or
	  single play)

	o It is necessary to adjust "difficulty" flag of all maps and
	  artifacts

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