Re: CF: Progression (was Re: Goth's tavern)

[David Sundqvist <azzie@netpolicy.com>]

On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, [iso-8859-1] Raphaël Quinet wrote:
> But this is NOT a good idea for playbalance and for the learning curve of
> beginners, who will easily get lost in the new maps (and will most likely
> get killed in a few seconds by monsters and traps that are way beyond
> their level).  NONE of these ships and dragons should be available to a
> player that does not already know the password for the gates.

Agreed. However, there is a balance to be struck too. IMO, we should
extend the world maps to be a lot larger eventually. That will make it
even more annoying for high level characters to travel between cities
without ships or similar quick travel ways.

It could be solved with a charge system tho. For example, letting entrance
to the harbor/a ship cost a certain amount (depending on distance to
city?). Also, there could be dragon transports or even teleporters for a
fair amount of money, or a fixed charge for an unlimited travelcard.
 
> The starting city really needs some work.  Most map designers are
> interested in building maps for levels above 10 or 20 because this is fun
> for their own characters, but little is done for creating an easy
> learning path for beginners.  Maybe the lack of good maps is due to the
> current map editor, which is not very intuitive and lacks some useful
> tools (e.g. an easy way to see all the magic ears, magic mouths, pedestals
> and other hidden switches in a map, or a tool that shows all objects
> connected to a given switch).  I hope that the GTK editor will solve some
> of these problems and I am glad to hear that some people are working on
> this.  I hope that I will also have the time to contribute a bit.

Well, hopefully :). I hope we can get as many RMD (Rapid Map Development)
features into it as possible. :) Hopefully we can figure out some ways to
enforce (or at least nag in a friendly way) about general consistency too.
IE, by default configuration it could complain if you stick a 20th level
monster in a 3rd level map, and ask if you're really sure you want to link
a level 30 map straight into a level 1 map. And maybe say 'hey, there are
49 houses in this map that do not lead anywhere, are you sure you shouldnt
start with a smaller village instead?' ;)

Another thing that may do some of the trick is to actually have more
consistency and stated policy than there currently is. 

I might do some more archetype work too, if I get time. 

> - The temptation for a map designer to link everyhing to Scorn would
>   disappear if there was more than one starting city or if the "word of
>   recall" could bring the player back to a different place.  I think that
>   it will take a while before we have several nice, balanced starting
>   cities for the different races, but maybe we could already have
>   different destinations for the "word of recall" depending on which cult
>   the player chooses.  Since bringing the player back (by "word of recall"
>   or resurrection after death) is an action of the players' god, then it
>   would make sense to bring the player back to the main temple of his
>   cult.  This would require two changes: first, the path to the point of
>   resurrection/recall should be part of the player structure; second,
>   there should be an archetype that is only found in temples and that
>   changes this info in the player structure.  The special altars (those
>   that are already aligned) would be good candidates for this: selecting
>   a cult by praying on an altar would at the same time change the
>   destination of the "word of recall".

Good ideas.

> - It is important to provide a linear progression for the beginners.  It
>   is better for a first-time player to be stuck in a city which has only
>   10-20 maps to available than to be allowed to visit the whole world
>   and to be lost without knowing which maps provide an interesing
>   challenge at this level.  As I mentioned above, doors/gates with
>   passwords are good for this, because an experienced player can bypass
>   the simple quests easily.  If more starting cities are added to CF,
>   I think they should all be separated in three areas:
>   * newbies area (levels 1-4)
>     - A dozen houses or dungeons in which the player can get some exp.
>     - One or two maps that are for level 5 or better and are clearly
>       marked as such.  These maps can show some of the better monsters,
>       and the player can try his luck there if he really wants to.
>     - One or two small shops (the starting city for a wizard would
>       contain a magic shop, but the starting cave for an orc would not)
>     - A library, if the player starts with the litteracy skill.
>     - One or two taverns in which the player can learn some tricks by
>       talking to people.  One of them should have "beds to reality".
>     - A gate to the next area.  The password can be found in a tavern
>       or at the end of one of the houses or caves.
>   * intermediate area (levels 5-9)
>     - More maps (10-20 of them), including at least one or two quests
>       that require the player to talk to people and to use some objects
>       found in one map to open an area in another map.
>     - Again, a couple of maps that have monsters of (much) higher level
>       so that the player can have a look at them.
>     - All shops (weapons, armour, magic, ...).
>     - Some temples.  It is not necessary to have temples in the newbies
>       area, except maybe for characters starting with the praying skill.
>     - The appartments, so that players can leave their stuff somewhere.
>     - A gate to the outside world.
>   * outside world (levels 10 and higher + other cities)
>     - Anything goes here.  The starting map of each quest should give
>       some indication of the expected level.

In my opinion, when making city dungeons, also please try to keep some
logic in it. There are all sorts of places where it's most natural to have
Nasty Things (tm), like basements, cellars, sewers, strange holes in a
garden, crypts, caves, wells, and so on, but the first level of
townspeople's houses are not one of them :). That's the place where the
Poor Woman sits crying over her husband who just went to fetch some
potatoes in the cellar and hasnt come back... yet. :) Or the Poor Priest
of Devourers sits crying because he needs a human heart for... err,
whatever. :)

Have fun,
David

-
[you can put yourself on the announcement list only or unsubscribe altogether
by sending an email stating your wishes to crossfire-request@ifi.uio.no]