Re: CF: Dup'ing items

["Mark Wedel" <mark@icp.siemens.com>]

On Jan 5,  3:06pm, Anthony Thyssen wrote:
> Subject: Re: CF: Dup'ing items

> That would NOT be a good idea. The reason for the comparision
> is to prevent them droping the items to duplicate, reseting
> and then having the restored character pick them up again.

 Ok.  So then what is the problem with just saving the character exactly as is
when the connection is lost?  That does not allow any item duping (if they just
dropped it, they won't have it in their inventory, so it isn't duped)


> Comparing characters does not have to be complex, just enough to prevent
> that one `loop-hole''. And with a `auto-save' in special `very safe'
> places (town and outside world maps only -- safe map flag?) should
> prevent much of the unplesentness.

 Comparing characters however is non trivial or slow (n^2 time where n=number
of items the character has).

 If we can get a 'safe map' flag, then we could also get a 'dangerous map flag'
or a 'safe at XXX' value in the map.  While having the maps give hints on what
to do would be very nice, relying/hoping the maps will so get updated is being
really optimistic.

 If that was going to happen, then I could see some extensions to the maps:

 Save type (save where character is on the map, save character back at home,
save character at position XXX on the map (ie, staircase up or something)
 Special save squares (for treasure rooms for example) which override the
default save type of the map above with something different.
 And so on.

>
> In fact ``Keep it Simple'' is in my view much prefered over the really
> complex fail safe to protect the player from the network disconnects.
> It just means that they should save regularly, just as they would in
> any other computer game.

 That would work just fine except that crossfire is multi player.  If the game
was single player, would could save a 'instance' of the server when the player
does a save (copy the temp maps and the temp.maps file into the home directory
or something.)  The fact it is multi player and the game world keeps moving
along whether or not that player is still playing makes things more difficult.

 Quick rundown of the various strategies:

 immediate save when disconnect - pro: no item dups, save is current.  con:
player can save in good locations (treasure rooms) by waiting 2 hours.

 use last save, only keep items that both the last saved character and
character when connection was dropped has.  player saved as it was at last
save.  pro: no item dups, anything else?  con: more complex, player not fully
up to date, cheats still possible (saves in treasureroom, pick everything up,
save character, crash, wait for map reset, etc).

 Actually, I see no advantage to the second over the first at this time - even
if the ability of the player to save is removed, if they know that the
character will periodically be saved, they can just wait in the treasureroom 5
or 10 minutes - if they are willing to wait 2 hours for the map to reset after
that, that 10 minute wait probably isn't a big deal.



>
> |  I can pretty much guarentee any clever way that is come up with to
> |  try and prevent cheating will still have a loophole or undesirable
> |  affect for those that honestly lost the connection.
> |
> Not a huge loophole, but a small penaly for disconnect should be
> prefered to other advantages `cheaters' can achieve.

 However, to go to a different point, I could see easier disconnects making the
game a bit more popular - it is more difficult to play the game knowing that
you need to allow time to get back to a bed of reality in order to save the
game.  If instead I can just quite and save whenver I want, going to some
remote dungeon is now possible (I can work on it 10 minutes at a time and save
in the wilderness), and once there, all I need to do is save at some safe
place.


> |  True - but there is a magic crystal quest so you can always get it.
> |  I am not sure how many of those it is useful to have in your
> |  inventory at once - if you use up all your own spell points + all the
> |  ones in the magic crystal fighting something, I don't know if the sp
> |  is a second or third is going to help out any.
> |
> Where?

 Was that the dark forest or black mountain?  I believe one of those two had
it.

>
> What quests you should go on to get what item is a big question :-)

 Actual, what the real quests are would be more appropriate for beginner
knowledge (quest is used loosely here - basically meaning map(s) with a
specific special reward in mind vs map(s) with a bunch of monsters and some
random treasure at the end.)

 As such, a few quests that immediately come to mind:
 dragon caves (high levels - sort of 3 quests (or at least 3 items))
 black mountain
 dark forest
 demilich tower (luggage & comet spell)
 tower of demonology (4 items at the end, but chances are if you can do one,
you could probably do all)
 lighthouse quest in navar city (girdle of strength - not truely unique, but
still a pretty good quest with respect to more than just killing to get to the
end)
 mages tower in navar city (improved darkblade)
 not familiar with pupland, but a bunch there

 Oldcity is vaguely a quest - there is no great reward at the end, but there
are a lot of different questions/stuff to get there.  On the other hand, it is
pretty low level quest for a lot of it, so a great reward at the end probably
would be overkill)


-- 

-- Mark Wedel
mark@pyramid.com
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