Please don't use random maps blindly, was: Re: CF: Random maps - comments

[Peter Mardahl <peterm@langmuir.EECS.Berkeley.EDU>]

> Hi,

Thanks for your your comments/bug reports.


> First, the bugs:
> 
> - once the random map is swaped out, but the main map not, you cannot
> enter the random map again. You get "/random/_xxxxxx is closed".
> Probably the map should be read from temporary dir, and  if it is not
> found there generator should be run again ( /random/ should work as /! )

OK.  I'll work on this one.  The basic problem is that I don't completely
understand how maps are done.  I'd appreciate help with this problem in
particular.

> - random maps + disease code = problems. When you enter the random map,
> the do_symptom() function crashes in most cases. It is because, it is
> called with disease argument which "race" is set to NULL. I don't know
> the reason, but checking for "race" not being NULL seems to help.

Someone else commented on this, I'll look into it as well.

> And now my comments.

> The first problem I see are monsterstyles and difficulty. When I set
> difficulty to 2, which (I think) should generate random map playable for
> 2nd level player - it will be easy for such player only when "humanoid"
> style would be chosen (I assume no monsterstyle was defined).
> In fact it would be too easy then - it would probably contain one or
> more goblins.
> But when generator choose "dragon" style, it woould be much to difficult
> for 2nd level, because of fairy dragons.

The fundamental problem here is that there are NOT sufficient monsters
in each "style" to have a good progression. 

> I thing monster styles should be redone, so dragons and such would start
> at level 7 or something.

Well, the monster styles are simply crossfire maps.  You're free to fix
them up yourself.  Be advised though:  dungeon_level is a parameter
under control of the map maker.  If dungeon_level is 1, but the first
"dragon" style is dragon_7, a level 1 dungeon is going to have monsters
picked from dragon_7.  I'd much, much, rather that people define/specify
a reasonable monster style whenever they create a random map though.

> And when no monsterstyle is given the generator should check which
> dragonstyles are available for given difficulty.

One point you should be aware of....  totally randomly picked styles
will MOST OFTEN produce crappy maps.  This is NOT something I will fix:
Suppose someone wants a strongly themed set of monsters for a random
map he's making:  he makes a monster style, and uses that monster style
for his special random map.  If that monster style is picked elsewhere,
by some other random map, it could produce rather strange results!


> And probably generators should be added to monsterstyles - because now
> generated maps are very empty.

There are generators in some of the monster style maps.

> I also don't like those "body-parts" decorstyle or furniture being
> placed on desert/grass. 

Yes, that's ugly, but it's what happens when no style is specified:
with random picks, OFTEN crappy things happen.  Map makers can define
crappy maps for themselves:  similarly, by neglecting to give the
random map generator some guidelines, they make crappy random maps.

> Other thing I would like to see is connect all "closed" buildings to
> random maps.

The reason I didn't hack this in is this:  how would one tell quickly
which maps are worth exploring and which aren't?  Quests become needles
in haystacks.  This isn't desired:  real maps are and will always be
far superior to random maps.  This also seemed to be the consensus
on this list.

> All those small wooden houses should have exits to maps described by:
> wallstyle wooden
> floorstyle wooden
> ..
> And other buildings could have wallstyle "dungeon".
> Towers should have defined depth and orientation (up).

I don't think random maps belong everywhere:  but I envisaged eventually
having random cities:  where exits in the city "inherit" styles from the
parent map.

> This would make Crossfire world much bigger and practically unlimited.
> But we should ensure, that randomly generated maps are well balanced -
> so entering a random map would not meen big treasures all the time, or
> just worthless map.

Just to emphasize the point:  totally random maps will often be crappy.
The random map generator should be given SOME guidelines.  Failing
to specify the monsterstyle is particularly bad.

New styles should be created by map makers for their random maps:  making
a style is not nearly so difficult as making a map.


PeterM
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