Re: [TCLUG:10159] DSL

[Peter Lukas <peter@math.umn.edu>]

I don't think you understand what I mean by "scalable."  Try managing
100,000 bridged DSL connections sometime -- It's difficult to adapt an
ISP's billing system to accomodate bridged connections since many
existing systems are based on dialup connectivity.

Even then, bridging mode still forwards broadcast/multicast packets.  The
majority of the users of this service use Operating Systems based on
broadcast/multicast protocols (NetBEUI, et al) which can swamp the ISP's
core whenever the box is up (assuming the ISP has "a brain," they can take
some minimalist steps to prevent this at the gateway).

This doesn't even begin to address the security concerns of DSL networks
based on bridging mode (DHCP assigned IP address configurations enable end
users to steal blocks of IP addresses, outsiders can discover the contents
of the DSL network thanks to the broadcast/multicast, there's little 
to no interactive client authentication at the gateway, etc.).

This is already grossly off-topic, but if you want to continue this
diuscussion, feel free to reply to me directly or join one of the DSL
newsgroups.

Peter Lukas

On Wed, 17 Nov 1999, Scott Dier - dieman wrote:

> The misconception that bridging mode is "non-scaleable" is included with
> the assumption that you are not on an isp with a brain.  I am on switched
> with iaxs and we have our own gateway (.113) and this box is (.116) using
> another box (.115) to get to (.113) that goes to the DSL gateway.  In
> effect, its scalable bridging.
> 
> Dont knock it if it can be done right.  I like to handle routing on the
> linux boxen, not the limited dsl thing. :)
> 
> On Tue, 16 Nov 1999, Peter Lukas wrote:
> 
> > Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 17:25:52 -0600 (CST)
> > From: Peter Lukas <peter@math.umn.edu>
> > Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> > Subject: Re: [TCLUG:10159] DSL
> > 
> > The covad folks should be installing my 384K SDSL line this Saturday.
> > Funny, U S West can't/won't even qualify me for 256.  Their equipment
> > looks to be much more capable of handling DSL duties than the 675
> > deathtrap (only time will tell, though).
> > 
> > VDSL is a 70MBps-ish DSL service designed to compete with broadband.  It
> > promises full cable television equivalence while running over existing
> > POTS lines.
> > 
> > By the way, the Covad/Onvoy deal is offering free installation, free first
> > month and free CPE.  It also includes the plain vanilla Internet account
> > and (although I'd rather do without one) a static IP address.  Until they
> > realize it doesn't scale well, their DSL service is provisioned for
> > bridging mode, not PPP.  Has anyone else ordered DSL service from
> > Onvoy/Covad (the network formerly known as MR-NET)?
> > 
> > Peter Lukas
> > 
> > On Tue, 16 Nov 1999, Ben Kochie wrote:
> > 
> > > I was talking to people up here in princeton, and I got tiped off to
> > > another DSL provider in the cities. "NorthStar Access"  they are a
> > > replacement Telco for USWest.  not a service reseller.  they have been
> > > trenching fiber up here, and are doing all kinds of cool things. (like
> > > putting teh fiber cable strait to the house, and switching it there.)
> > > they use Next Level DSL modems, and not teh cisco netspeed's.  they also
> > > use VDSL.  Has anyone heard anything about this, or knows anything about
> > > VDSL.. 
> > > 
> > > http://www.nlc.com (next level)
> > > I don't ahve a link for northstar.. I don't remember it.. it looks like
> > > they are asociated with MRnet and sherbtel
> > > 
> > > Thank You,
> > >         Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net)
> > > 
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> > > 
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> 
> ---
> Scott Dier <dieman@ringworld.org> #nicnac@efnet 612.301.0265
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