Re: [VANILLA-LIST:2847] The r.g.n ejection debate

[Jeffrey Nowakowski <jeffno@ccs.neu.edu>]

Tom Holub <doosh@best.com> wrote:
>
> On Fri, Jan 28, 2000 at 10:34:53PM -0500, Jeffrey Nowakowski wrote:
> > 
> > Analogies of netrek to chess or basketball (your other favorite
> > analogy) are flawed.  These games are popular and widespread.  Do you
> > think the people who popularized basketball threw people out because
> > they didn't rotate in a zone defense?
> 
> Have you ever played in a pickup basketball game?

Yes, but I'm not talking about basketball today; I'm talking about
basketball before it was popularized.

> The proposal is to give new players a place they can play without 
> being yelled at, and to give advanced players a place they can expect
> a higher level of play.  There's no rational objection.

My rational objection is that we don't have enough players for an
"advanced" server, and trying to make a server advanced by ejecting
players hurts netrek.  I do not object to a newbie server.

> Actual reality: strong players (of any game or sport) don't find it
> interesting playing with weak players.  Pretty much all successful games and
> sports therefore find ways to match players of similar abilities.

Actual reality: netrek does not have enough players to do this on the
pickup level.
 
> How many strong players have dropped out of pickup because it's "full
> of twinks"?

Players who drop out of pickup can still play INL or clue games.  The
fact that so many who leave don't play in either tells me they've
dropped netrek altogether for reasons like making lots of money,
disinterest, or lack of a good connection.

> How can we afford to lose people who are dedicated to
> the game in the misguided attempt to make them play with complete newbies
> if they don't want to?

I'm not talking about complete newbies; I'm talking about people who
don't understand what space control is.  These players will have NO
place to play.

> Hypothesis: Making strong players who are interested in a good game play
> with idiots will lose more strong players than newbies.

Counter-argument: What netrek really needs is a constant influx of new
players, not a few elitist jerks.  There is a place for strong players
to get quality games.  The fact that these quality games are getting
fewer and fewer means that we aren't attracting and keeping enough new
players.

-Jeff