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RE: (ASCEND) TNT Dropping ISDN 2nd Channels



On Wednesday, October 22, 1997 6:32 PM, George E. Navas 
[SMTP:navas@bayarea.net] wrote:
>
> I can share the frustration that you are currently having since it
> appears that the TNT box is plagued with bugs. We have been battling
> problems with the max4048's and the 56kbs when you try to use
> the box for both analog and isdn. The code released by Ascend
> after 5.0Ap10 broke  ISDN and it is now several months later and
> Ascend has not been able to fix it. The problem  causes a "c=2 p=10"
> for ISDN calls at random times, and the only solution is to reboot the 
box
> or wait from one 1/2 hour to and 2 hours for the box to get out of
> the jam. In the mean time no other ISDN calls can come in. Ascend was
> willing to lends us a TNT until a possible  solution could be found for
> the ISDN problems. This sounded like a good gesture, but as it turns out
> it was a complete disaster.
>
> Here is what we found out so far for the TNT.
>
> 	1. The TNT is sold as a high density box, but one of the
> 	major problems is that if a customer's ISDN channel ends up
> 	in one of the HDLC cards and the 2nd ISDN channel ends up
> 	on the 2nd HDLC card then the MPP will not work. This pretty much
> 	renders this box useless as a high density box. So in theory
> 	this box is only good for the max of 192 ISND calls.
>
> 	2. According to ascend the TNT HDLC seem to fall apart around
> 	50 or so ISDN connections per HDLC, so Ascend shipped us the
> 	the TNT with 2 HDLC cards, yet because of the above problem
> 	this is pretty much useless.
>
> 	3. The Rip protocol is broken and drops routes for the dialup
> 	users.
>
> 	4. An to top it off after running for 3 days one of the HDLC
> 	bit the dust.
>
> 	5. Now to add insult to injury, not even the manual in their
> 	home page or the printed manual is correct. The index is
> 	all screwed up, and points to pages that do not exist in the
> 	manual.
>
>
> After this fiasco with the TNT, our users are ready to hang us, so
> we decided to remove all of the 56kbs modems out of the 4048's and 4004,
> ask Ascend to send us some of the old v.34 modems, and revert back to
> the release of 5.0Ap10. This has brought some sanity back, but
> a major advertizing campain about 56kbs is now out the door.
>
> For those that are looking to buy a TNT my STRONG recommendation is
> too look else where, since it is clear that Ascend does not have the
> capability to perform the simplest quality assurance on their product
> or even their manual. I'm no network guru, but if I'm able to discover
> such problems in less than 2 days I wonder what kind of testing does
> Ascend perform on their products. If on the other hand they know
> ahead of such problems, why don't they just publish them ahead of time
> so people like us do not spend days trying to figure this mess.
> Ascend should be ashamed of such a lousy product.
>
> One hell of a frustrated customer who is ready to kick the Ascend 
products
> out the door.
>
> George
>
>
> On Wed, 22 Oct 1997, Frank Nowling wrote:
>
> > The Saga Continues....
> >
> > After a second call to ascend tech support on this issue, we were told 
that
> > we have misconfigured radius. (NOT!)
> >
> > After insisting that the tech go talk to an engineer, we get to the 
heart
> > of the issue - Don't use 1.3ap6 for ISDN calls. We're now told that 
this is
> > a "known issue". When will a fix be available? 10-15 days.
> >
> > What about support for our new 56K cards?  Move the ISDN folks off of 
the
> > TNT and just use the TNT for 56k.
> >
> > We get these answers not that many days after being told that 1.3ap6 is 
> > "the most stable version of the TNT software yet"
> >
> > Folks, this is getting really old.  This is not first time that one 
part of
> > tech support gives us a line of BS, only to get a "this is a known 
issue"
> > after insisting that our problems get further up the support food 
chain.
> >  If the techs don't know, they need to admit it. Every "known issue" 
needs
> > to be known by all the tech staff not just the high priests in the
> > engineering tower.
> >
> > Frank
> >
> > On Tuesday, October 21, 1997 2:08 PM, Frank Nowling
> > [SMTP:frankn@netropolis.net] wrote:
> > : Recently we upgraded our TNT from v1.3ap2 to v1.3ap6.  Since then we 
have
> > : noticed that the 2nd channels on incoming ISDN connections are 
getting
> > : dumped with a cause=2 progress=60 host=0.0.0.0.
> > [snip]
> >
> > ++ Ascend Users Mailing List ++
> > To unsubscribe:	send unsubscribe to ascend-users-request@bungi.com
> > To get FAQ'd:	<http://www.nealis.net/ascend/faq>
> >
>
> 
========================================================================  
======
>
> 		B A Y   A R E A   I N T E R N E T   S O L U T I O N S
>
> George E. Navas   		navas@bayarea.net
> Voice: (408)260-5000  		Fax:(408)260-5003 	http://www.bayarea.net
> 
========================================================================  
======
>
>
> ++ Ascend Users Mailing List ++
> To unsubscribe:	send unsubscribe to ascend-users-request@bungi.com
> To get FAQ'd:	<http://www.nealis.net/ascend/faq>

Well, what really amazes me is that 1) Our local Ascend "Engineer" called 
me on these issues at 5:15PM last night (10/22/97) and apologize time and 
time again, and told me that Ap13 should fix the problems, but he wanted to 
find out from someone at Ascend if this rev. was stable enough or not.  He 
told me he would call right back...  Well, at 7:30PM, after missing dinner 
with the wife, and being too dark to throw the frisbee with the dog, I 
decided he wasn't going to call back and took my ass home.  Go figure.  2) 
I read on the mailing list this morning about all the wonderful things in 
Ap13.  Notice at the TOP of the message, Kevin Smith puts a little note 
that this should be on their site by the end of the day, but if you scroll 
down to the bottom, you can read the current "Known Issues".  Maybe I'm 
just an idiot, but if the software has NOT been released to the public yet, 
and you KNOW that there are problems with it, WHY NOT CORRECT THE PROBLEM 
BEFORE SHIPPING IT OUT?!#?  We all know that there will most likely be 
"Unknown Issues" that will be found when our customers call and tell us 
they are leaving because of crappy service.  This is getting REALLY old 
REALLY quick.  We originally had taken our TNT off of the rack, and threw 
it into the closet (makes a damn good door stop).  Ascend was real quick to 
get someone out here, hook it all back up, and prove to us that it was such 
a great product.  What really amazes me is the responses Ascend Techs give. 
 When we first noticed the problem with more than 50 connections to 1 HDLC 
card, and explained to the technician that we couldn't use 2 (even if it 
worked) because we had rollover lines, his "quick solution" was to unplug 
the TNT, and put a Max 4000 back online, which they would ship me to use 
until the product was fixed.  That just amazes me.  The way I see it, I   
called 1800ASCEND4, talked to an Ascend Technician, so the only conclusion 
I can come to is that Ascend told me that the TNT was NOT a stable 
production-quality box, and that I shouldn't run it, but use Max 4000's 
instead.  Amazing.

Well, there is no sense in beating this dead horse anymore than it already 
has.  I think we have all voiced our opinions in one way or another for 
quite some time now, and have had nothing to prove that the situation is 
getting any better.

What's this on my desk?  A brochure on my desk about the Cisco POP on a 
palette? Hmmmmm......

Scott R. Chrestman
System Administrator
Netropolis Communications Corp.
src@netropolis.net

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