Re: CF: suggestion for Exp system (damage vs. kill)

[Raphaël Quinet <Raphael.Quinet@eed.ericsson.se>]

On Mon, 1 Feb 1999, Mark Wedel wrote:
> On Feb 1,  4:50pm, Peter Mardahl wrote:
> > With the partial experience system, there would seem to be no need
> > for "party experience".  Everyone who participates would be getting
> > experience of some kind, and no-risk malingerers get nothing.
> 
>  The only problem here would be someone that wants to basically play a healer
> or person that casts protection spells - they are certainly useful, but would
> not get any exp in that method.  On the other hand, how many people actually
> play characters like that?

I should have added that to my message, but I was indeed planning
to have the party experience awarded to a "generic" experience category
(not to the currently selected skill).  And the reason for that was
precisely that healer characters should still get some exp even if they
do not fight the monsters directly.  The same could also happen if one
player is a wizard casting cancellation or other spells to protect the
other players who are firing arrows and bolts.

> On Feb 1,  2:31pm, Raphaël Quinet wrote:
> > Here is a suggestion: keep two separate fields in the object struct
> > for the monsters (exp and kill_exp).  When loading a map, half of
> > the exp specified in the file is stored in each field.  Then the
> > experience points would be awarded as follows:
> 
>  In the long run, this should be specified in the arch.  The loading of this
> field would be needed in any case (since if the map gets swapped out, you
> probably don't want to divide again.)

That's right.  So, how about this: add a new kill_exp field to all
archetypes.  When loading a map containing some objects that have no
kill_exp set, then the value of exp is divided.  If the objects already
have kill_exp set, then the values of exp and kill_exp are used without
any change.

> > Of course, the exp gains are adjusted according to the respective
> > levels of the players, as in the current system.
> 
>  Note that this can open up some abuses.  I could hit some powerful monster
> that I know I don't have any chance of killing with some range attack (due to
> lack of enough mana to get enough spells off), but still get some pretty good
> exp (especially do to the level difference.)

Well, the abuse is limited to half of the monster's exp, so after a
while you would not get anything out of the monster.  Also, there could
be a threshold for awarding any exp.  For example, the player would
only get exp if dam / max_hp > 5%.  Or there could be a limit to the
modifiers.  For example, if monster_level / player_level > 2, then only
take 2 as the maximum modifier.  So if a level 5 player manages to hit
a big wizard with a ranged attack, he would only get two or three points
for each hit, not more.

You can also see this case from another point of view: if you are a
wizard trying to kill a troll, you will cast some spells at it.  Even if
you do not succeed in killing the monster, you become more experienced
in casting these spells because you can successfully hurt the troll.  So
it could make sense to gain some points for damaging a monster even if
you currently have no chance of killing it.

>  A simpler method would be award a 1:1 hp caused:exp gain (no modifiers for
> level difference, skills, or whatever else).  Exp for some monsters would need
> to be adjusted due to this change.  This gives some exp for just beating stuff
> up, but puts the bulk of it on the actual killing of the creature.

But what about the monsters that are powerful spellcasters and have
low hp?  These should give a lot of exp, but that would not work if the
damage/exp ratio is 1/1.

Hmmm...  I suppose that with a 1/1 ratio for "damage exp", you would
still get all the remaining exp (presumably with the modifiers for level
difference) when you eventually kill the monster, so you could still get
a significant amount of points for killing the spellcasters.  But I
prefer to have the level modifiers used for "damage exp" as well as "kill
exp".  This is less confusing, IMHO.

-Raphaël
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