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Re: [TCLUG:9416] MediaOne Roadrunner and Linux (fwd)


The attitude that some how debian is better is the real problem.

It is this attitude I am fighting...  And if this continues, it
will probably dramatically hurt the future of linux overall.
They are all basically just Linux.. I have used most of the 
distributions:
	slackware
	redhat
	Debian
	SuSE
	OpenLinux - Caldera
	TurboLinux - Pacific HiTech

	And the redhat clones:
	   - mandrake
	   - linuxone
	   - stampede

        And freebsd, BSDi, netbsd, OpenBSD
	And Irix, Solaris, Unicos, AIX, etc..etc..etc..

  1. Yes the packaging may have some better features, however
     most distributions use it..
  2. RPM does check to see if there are conflicts..
     RPM does post cleanup/setup if the RPM is correctly created.

Don't deceive yourself, debian is not more pure than Redhat, RedHat
GPLs everything they make, they work with the community, they are
willing to change things.  Also Corel is involved in the Debian
commercialization now.

Debian is boxing and sending out commercial versions with commercial
support.  Granted this is through VA Linux (and co-sponsored by SGI)
along with the phone support.  Yes it is different but Debian is no
more pure than any other company that gives away all the software
that they write.

I don't recommend Debian due to the holier than though attitude
I continually see from the users.


The question is, is debian willing to work with RedHat to work on
a single packaging system format?

And tar/tar.gz is not a 'packaging system', it is merely the unix
archiving method, not meant as a packaging system.

Mark

Forwarded message:
> From tclug-list-return-9463-mwd=sgi.com@mn-linux.org  Tue Oct 26 23:01:52 1999
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> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:01:19 -0500 (CDT)
> From: Scott Dier - dieman <dieman@ringworld.org>
> To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> In-Reply-To: <199910270342.WAA15739@esgi051.cray.com>
> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9910262254020.32342-100000@destiny.ringworld.org>
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> Subject: Re: [TCLUG:9416] MediaOne Roadrunner and Linux
> 
> On Tue, 26 Oct 1999, Mark Dalton wrote:
> 
> > it with their distributions..  You may want to contact the authors of
> > the howtos I sent that stated it was not there.
> HOWTO's are written by the LDP, they have no need to keep current with
> distributions it seems.  They are a great source of install/setup info
> though.
> 
> >   Lets get off the debian vs.. *** thing... It is JUST yet another version
> >   of linux..  Now if we can get everyone to agree on ONE packaging system,
> >   it is going to be a bigger issue (to the media).
> There are many kinds of packaging systems.  I see 3 prevelant.
> 
> A) Slackware/Stampede  tar.gz
> B) RedHat .rpm style -- very little pre/postconfig
> C) Debian .deb style -- full pre/post config. upgrade config. debconf
> setup (being implemented) that remembers your settings and automagically
> reconfigures upgrades.
> 
> As I see, you can stay with packages only in debian much eaiser because of
> its configuration setup.
> 
> #2, the media care because businesses might care.  read: redhat is there.
> redhat is getting the attention.  redhat has the best business/large scale
> install hands down.  Until the debconf system is finished i feel that
> redhat has it all in this dept.
> 
> >   United we stand, divided we fall... I am JUST a Linux advocate, and have
> 
> It wont happen. It doesn't happen with bsders and it wont happen with
> linux dists.  debian/slackware/stampede/other-non-commerical are
> fundamentally different from redhat, suse, caldera who will keep their
> stuff very much intergrated with their systems to keep their slice of the
> "growing linux market" because ipo for linux dists is amazingly
> profitiable to the owners/ceo's of these businesses.
> 
> Its sad, but its what happens when it gets commercial.
> 
> 
> > > On Tue, 26 Oct 1999, Mark Dalton wrote:
> > > 
> > > > A reserved yes, depending on what you mean.. It is available in RedHat, Caldera
> > > > and SuSe (but it was not in some like Debian, and not know in Slackware, perhaps
> > > > the newer releases have it).
> > > 
> > > not only is there:
> > > ipmasq - Securely initializes IP Masquerade forwarding/firewalling
> > > in debian
> > > 
> > > ipmasqadm is *included by default* in netbase.
> > > 
> > > netbase.list:/usr/sbin/ipmasqadm
> > > netbase.list:/usr/share/doc/netbase/ipmasqadm
> > > netbase.list:/usr/share/doc/netbase/ipmasqadm/README
> > > netbase.list:/usr/share/doc/netbase/ipmasqadm/README.portfw.gz
> > > netbase.list:/usr/share/doc/netbase/ipmasqadm/README.portfw.new
> > > netbase.list:/usr/share/doc/netbase/ipmasqadm/redir-vs-portfw.txt
> > > netbase.list:/usr/share/doc/netbase/ipmasqadm/README.autofw.gz
> > > netbase.list:/usr/share/man/man8/ipmasqadm.8.gz
> > > netbase.list:/usr/lib/ipmasqadm
> > > netbase.list:/usr/lib/ipmasqadm/autofw.so
> > > netbase.list:/usr/lib/ipmasqadm/mfw.so
> > > netbase.list:/usr/lib/ipmasqadm/portfw.so
> > > netbase.list:/usr/lib/ipmasqadm/user.so
> > > 
> > > 
> > > No dissing debian allowed <grin>
> > > 
> > > ---
> > > Scott Dier <dieman@ringworld.org> #nicnac@efnet 612.301.0265
> > >   ringworld . associates    | <YodaNsO> fear leads to anger, 
> > >  http://www.ringworld.org   |           anger leads to hate,
> > > finger me for gnupg/pgp key |           hate leads to solaris.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Mark Dalton       CH3-S-CH2 H                      H      O       H
> > Silicon Graphics, Inc.  |   |                      |       \      |
> > Eagan, MN 55121         CH2-C-COO    //\ ---C--CH2-C-COO    C-CH2-C-COO
> > mwd@sgi.com                 |       |  ||   ||     |       //     |
> >                             NH3      \\/ \ / CH    NH3    O       NH3
> >                                           NH
> > My home page: http://www.cbc.umn.edu/~mwd/mwd.html
> > Cell Biology: http://www.cbc.umn.edu/~mwd/cell.html
> > 
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: tclug-list-unsubscribe@mn-linux.org
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> > 
> > 
> 
> ---
> Scott Dier <dieman@ringworld.org> #nicnac@efnet 612.301.0265
>   ringworld . associates    | <YodaNsO> fear leads to anger, 
>  http://www.ringworld.org   |           anger leads to hate,
> finger me for gnupg/pgp key |           hate leads to solaris.
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tclug-list-unsubscribe@mn-linux.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tclug-list-help@mn-linux.org
> 


-- 
Mark Dalton       CH3-S-CH2 H                      H      O       H
Silicon Graphics, Inc.  |   |                      |       \      |
Eagan, MN 55121         CH2-C-COO    //\ ---C--CH2-C-COO    C-CH2-C-COO
mwd@sgi.com                 |       |  ||   ||     |       //     |
                            NH3      \\/ \ / CH    NH3    O       NH3
                                          NH
My home page: http://www.cbc.umn.edu/~mwd/mwd.html
Cell Biology: http://www.cbc.umn.edu/~mwd/cell.html