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Re: Equipment use and Religons (Was: Re: CF: Priest cannot use weapons)


> Scott writes:
> 
> As for gradually giving out the advantages/disadvantages for religons,
> an obvious solution is to say clerical level is also religious level
> [ snip ]

	Yes, I was advocating this. The problem remains on how to hand out
	the "goodies" and restrictions since they will differ on a cult by
	cult basis. Currently, you get all penalties and benefits right off
	the bat from joining.. so how do we implement a reasonable schedule for
	handing these out then? I can think of 2 possbible methods:

	 - assign the schedule in the god's archetype. 
	 - randomize the gain of benefits/restrictions. Each level gained/lost
	   would result in a random benefit/restriction that they currently
	   have/dont have. Once all benefits/restrictions are passed out, there
	   is no further change in the character.
	
	You can probably think of variations on this theme, but these are the
	to orthogonal choices I think.

I am strongly in favor in a fixed schedule as part of each's god's
definitons.  The inherent trouble with random is that each
benefit/restriction do not essentially equal impacts.  So, like for Gaea
you would not want to randomly pass out "+2 regen/no weapons" at a low
level.  That should be about the last thing given out.

> 
> A major part of the imbalance of religons is that holy word/orb and so on
> can be pretty potent, but it is so rarely used by monsters.  I don't
> recall ever noticing taking damage from those spells.
> 
	
	Why are holy word/orb unbalancing? If anything, many people find the
	priests too hard to play (they are *certainly* harder to play than 
	wizard types). Which direction are you advocating we balance in?!?

I think anything that player gets that monsters do not appear to get
is unbalancing.  Like sunspear is a good spell to use, but demons have
used it to kill me several times.  I suppose my problem with clerical
spells and monsters is that so few monsters get clerical spells (and do
monsters efficiently regain clerical spell points?).

> One of the great challenges of programming is after completing the 'big
> idea' part of a project is to then fill in all of the details that make
> it truly useful.  The details are often considered boring by the programmer
 [ snip ]

	Um, Whats your point here? I mean, having yourself helped work on the
	gods code yourself, what are you trying to say? 

	All in all, I think this argument is a bit disingenious. "Big idea's"
	 *rarely*, if ever, can be implemented completely and fully in one go. 
	And the god's code was fairly extensively hashed out by myself, Peter, you a
	nd Mark (and comments form the CF list as well). I totally disagree that 
	this code is ill-thought out. As with everything, problems and bugs exist,
	so time is needed to adjust playability. I certainly am one to tinker.

I did not say (or even I think imply) that the current code is "ill-thought
out".  I am sorry it was taken that way.

My point here is to note that while the big part of gods and religon has
been implemented that a large number of the details remain.  I think while
each detail might be easy enough to address individually that would be
a poor approach to finish this feature.  I think we would do much better
if we figure out more precisely how we all want gods/religons to fit into
the CF universe since how all of the details are handled will have a huge
impact.

I think we have at least the following open questions which I suggest should
be handled together and addressed individually.

1)  How to gradually hand out the bigger benefits/penalties for religons.
1.a) Exactly what are the benefits and penalties that are handed out?

2)  What role do altars play in CF?  Currently, altars are assigned a god
randomly which doesn't make much sense.  Should there be religious regions
with that area's city containing the sole altar for that religon?  Are
altars involved with gaining clerical levels or religious benefits/penalties?

3)  To what extent, if any, should maps and monsters be modified to
include gods and religons?  Which monsters should automatically be given
which clerical spells (or are new monsters needed)?

							sdw

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